Has this been fulfilled yet about burning the weapons?

[Yahshua]

I think the Palestinians usually use rocks or Rockets.
guns are probably impractical against the vastly superior Israeli military force.

I used to be highly pro-israel, but it's starting to look to me more like they are oppressors.

I think if Israel sees the Westbank as part of itself, then it would make sense to incorporate that into Israel. or forget about it and let the Palestinians have a state.

But holding a population of several million people in a kind of limbo is not right, in my opinion. It's not loving your neighbor as yourself.

Another possibility that some are maybe apprehensive to consider (for understandable reasons) is, those who currently occupy the land calling themselves Israel are not actually Israel, and so can't fulfill the portion of scripture you mentioned in the OP?

What if we were to start from the premise that the occupiers are gentiles. How would that change things?

Luke 21:24
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled

Zechariah 12:3
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

 

[Dan_473]

Another possibility that some are maybe apprehensive to consider (for understandable reasons) is, those who currently occupy the land calling themselves Israel are not actually Israel, and so can't fulfill the portion of scripture you mentioned in the OP?

What if we were to start from the premise that the occupiers are gentiles. How would that change things?

Luke 21:24
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled

Zechariah 12:3
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

The burning the weapons then would be a future event?

 

[Yahshua]

The burning the weapons then would be a future event?

Yeah, in the same vein as the following verse.

Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

So precept upon precept, we can link your passage from Ezekiel 39 and the above passage together and see that upon burning the weapons the nations will not war anymore. We know this hasn't happened yet.

 

[abcdef]

Hello abcdef,

Do you actually think that when Ezekiel wrote the prophecy regarding the future wipe-out of Gog and Magog 2600 years ago, that Ezekiel would call the weapons laser guided missiles, automatic weapons, drones and whatever other technological weapons will be present? No! Ezekiel would not have anything to compare to what he was seeing in his vision. Therefore, the closest he would be to come to comparing those future weapons to would be to what was existing, i.e. swords, spears, bows, arrows, etc. He wouldn't have any comparison of the technology to be able to explain them.

Well, is this literal or symbolic or both? Ha, ha. In this case, you are saying symbolic and I am saying literal, funny.

By your own standards that everything should be taken as literal unless there is enough evidence in the passage to indicate otherwise, as language pointing to that effect, it should be taken as literal.

Where is your language evidence in this passage that the weapons are symbolic? There is symbolism in the passage, but not as you say that it is about the weapons. You say that the 5/6ths is literal, and believe that it takes place on the literal mountains of Israel, so why not the weapons, aren't they literal?

Likewise, another good example of this would be when Jesus returns to end the age where the people will beat their swords and spears into plowshares and pruning hooks, respectively. When Isaiah received this information, he would have nothing to compare to the technological weapons that we have today. Therefore, they are listed as swords, spears, bows and arrows, which are representing weapons of war.

Now you are taking the symbolic and making it literal. The beating of the weapons of war into the tools for eternal life happens when a person comes to Jesus and receives the Holy Spirit. This does not happen planet wide or to every person on the planet. Only in the kingdom of Israel/church that began on Pentecost.

Isaiah shows the conversion of the lion to the Spirit of the lamb, and the serpent to the Spirit of the lamb. The lion and serpent who have entered into the Holy Spirit kingdom/church no longer follow the ways of war, but now are planting, watering, and helping to bring in the harvest of souls, both natural and wild branches. I suppose that every Christian you know that is filled with the Holy Spirit would fit this profile.

Literally, this would be saying that people will be blacksmiths beating with hammers, plows into hooks. They manufacture them now with machines. Unless you believe that the passage of the blacksmiths is symbolic.

This event is still future, as the world has not seen God alone wipe out five sixth of the Gog, Magog, tubal, Meshech, Put, Gomer and the rest.

Further more, one of the purposes of this event will be for the following:

"I will show my greatness and my holiness, and I will make myself known in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am the Lord.’

God has not single handedly, by His own power, wiped out five sixths of Gog, Magog and their hordes so that that nations know that God is the One who was responsible. It's still a future event.

Some say that it was Antiochus Epiphanes that invaded after the return from Babylon.

The only thing that we can say is there is no reliable records confirming the event in the past so far. It may have been recorded as another event as seen from the gentile worldly point of view.

Can you prove that it didn't happen? Just because there is no record of the event found yet, doesn't mean that it did not happen. You are saying that because there is no record of the event that it proves that it did not happen. It doesn't prove it, only that there is not a record of it.

-------

You say this is Rev 20, and the events are God making himself known to the gentile nations. But on your time line, Jesus has already been reigning in Jerusalem for 1000 years. Why would Jesus have to show Himself as God after reigning 1000 years in person and in glory as God?

--------

 

[abcdef]

Lots of good points there

I think that if Israel is a Jewish Nation, and the people of God, then it can only Survive by following God's way, which is to love your neighbor as yourself, regardless of what other nations or influences there are. Israel clearly is not treating the populations of the occupied territories that way, in my opinion.

I agree, but how can Israel invite their neighbors in, when they will be killed? You mean just give up fighting back and let those people destroy them?

Get a map, look at the size of Israel. Then look at the size of Iran, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, and others. Why would so many nations, of such great size, hate so greatly, a tiny nation, half the size of the Netherlands or Belgium?

To the other nations, it doesn't matter what Israel does, their intent is to kill Israel and take Jerusalem, it is their religion. They will not stop until Israel is destroyed. Powers across the Middle East and across the planet are building towards that end.

To prove that the God of Israel is no God and to prove that their religion is the true one.

If his real is not the people of God, not a Jewish Nation, then it really doesn't matter if they rise or fall, they are just like any other Nation.

True, but,

Can a nation exist against the will of God? (no)

If a nation cannot exist against the will of God, then this Israel must exist by the will of God.

If this Israel exists by the will of God, will we say that it exists by chance? Or by the exclusive will of men?
--
I think that no one will ever prove one way or the other that the people in Israel are actually descendants of Jacob or not. Maybe if they found the bones of Jacob and did DNA tests.

But it will be a matter of faith, just like many other things. And where there is faith, there will also be doubt casters, those who cast doubt on things. That's OK though, they have their place too, and sometimes they are right.

I believe that this Israel is the fulfillment of prophecies.

--------

 

[Yahshua]

I agree, but how can Israel invite their neighbors in, when they will be killed? You mean just give up fighting back and let those people destroy them?

Get a map, look at the size of Israel. Then look at the size of Iran, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, and others. Why would so many nations, of such great size, hate so greatly, a tiny nation, half the size of the Netherlands or Belgium?

To the other nations, it doesn't matter what Israel does, their intent is to kill Israel and take Jerusalem, it is their religion. They will not stop until Israel is destroyed. Powers across the Middle East and across the planet are building towards that end.

To prove that the God of Israel is no God and to prove that their religion is the true one.




True, but,

Can a nation exist against the will of God? (no)

If a nation cannot exist against the will of God, then this Israel must exist by the will of God.

If this Israel exists by the will of God, will we say that it exists by chance? Or by the exclusive will of men?
--
I think that no one will ever prove one way or the other that the people in Israel are actually descendants of Jacob or not. Maybe if they found the bones of Jacob and did DNA tests.

But it will be a matter of faith, just like many other things. And where there is faith, there will also be doubt casters, those who cast doubt on things. That's OK though, they have their place too, and sometimes they are right.

I believe that this Israel is the fulfillment of prophecies.

--------

I believe they are a fulfillment of prophecy too, and "amen" no nation can exist apart from Yah ordaining it, but from a study of history and prophecy I think the Israel we currently see is actually Edom who was prophesied to take possession of the land after Israel was scattered into all nations upon the 70AD destruction.


Ezekiel 35:10-15
10 “‘Because you have said, “These two nations and countries will be ours and we will take possession of them,” even though I the Lord was there, 11 therefore as surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I will treat you in accordance with the anger and jealousy you showed in your hatred of them and I will make myself known among them when I judge you. 12 Then you will know that I the Lord have heard all the contemptible things you have said against the mountains of Israel. You said, “They have been laid waste and have been given over to us to devour.” 13 You boasted against me and spoke against me without restraint, and I heard it. 14 This is what the Sovereign Lord says: While the whole earth rejoices, I will make you desolate. 15 Because you rejoiced when the inheritance of Israel became desolate, that is how I will treat you. You will be desolate, Mount Seir, you and all of Edom. Then they will know that I am the Lord.’”


^^I believe the desolation spoken of here is the Abomination of desolation spoken by Christ in Luke 21:24. Then in the next chapter it says...


Ezekiel 36:5
5 this is what the Sovereign Lord says: In my burning zeal I have spoken against the rest of the nations, and against all Edom, for with glee and with malice in their hearts they made my land their own possession so that they might plunder its pastureland.’


^^after this passage, in the same chapter Yah promises to restore Israel by:

1) gathering them from all the nations
2) giving them a new heart to want to obey Him (New Covenant; but for ALL Israel)
3) and THEN to return them to the land

...in that order...all while Edom possesses the land. Then in Chapter 37 we read of the valley of dry bones which can be no other event than the first resurrection.

4) Resurrection of the dead.


Romans 11:15
For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?


...Ezekiel 37 continues with "my servant David" leading Israel, which is clearly the second coming of Christ and the millennium reign.

5) Millennium Reign

Finally, Ezekiel 38 describes a war of Gog & Magog, when the surrounding nations will attack Israel while "my servant David" is there reigning in peace with "un-walled villages" (Jerusalem currently has fortified walls and weapons), which is then followed by Yah destroying them from heaven with earthquake and hailstones, etc.

----

So I strongly believe the people currently in the land are Edom of Ezekiel 35 & 36.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Sounds like at some point then technology will have to go backwards for some reason similar to how it did in the Middle Ages in order for it to make sense to attack Israel with bows and arrows and shields.

Hello Dan,

As I stated in an earlier post, the reference to bow, arrows, shields, etc., is the only the comparison that Ezekiel can make to the weapons that he is seeing in the future. Therefore, he cannot refer to them automatic weapons, AK-47's, laser-guided missiles or whatever he was seeing and that because he has nothing in his time period to compare to that technology.

 

[Dan_473]

Yeah, in the same vein as the following verse.

Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

So precept upon precept, we can link your passage from Ezekiel 39 and the above passage together and see that upon burning the weapons the nations will not war anymore. We know this hasn't happened yet.

That's a good point.

One corollary of that approach is that prophetic scripture becomes loose. It's pretty hard to tell if something has been fulfilled or not, or what it is that will actually happen when it is fulfilled.

For example Maybe Ezekiel 38 and 39 we're fulfilled by Alexander the Great or something.

 

[Dan_473]

I agree, but how can Israel invite their neighbors in, when they will be killed? You mean just give up fighting back and let those people destroy them?

Get a map, look at the size of Israel. Then look at the size of Iran, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, and others. Why would so many nations, of such great size, hate so greatly, a tiny nation, half the size of the Netherlands or Belgium?

To the other nations, it doesn't matter what Israel does, their intent is to kill Israel and take Jerusalem, it is their religion. They will not stop until Israel is destroyed. Powers across the Middle East and across the planet are building towards that end.

To prove that the God of Israel is no God and to prove that their religion is the true one.




True, but,

Can a nation exist against the will of God? (no)

If a nation cannot exist against the will of God, then this Israel must exist by the will of God.

If this Israel exists by the will of God, will we say that it exists by chance? Or by the exclusive will of men?
--
I think that no one will ever prove one way or the other that the people in Israel are actually descendants of Jacob or not. Maybe if they found the bones of Jacob and did DNA tests.

But it will be a matter of faith, just like many other things. And where there is faith, there will also be doubt casters, those who cast doubt on things. That's OK though, they have their place too, and sometimes they are right.

I believe that this Israel is the fulfillment of prophecies.

--------

well, if Israel were to incorporate the West Bank into itself, then it would treat the people living there who break the law just like anyone else in Israel who breaks the law. so people committing murders or shooting Rockets rioting would be treated the same as people in other parts of Israel. granted, you might have to have martial law in certain areas for a while, but the ultimate goal would be stability so that the economy can recover, Etc.

or they could expel all the Palestinians. there would be a lot of human suffering, but at least there would be an end in sight.

I agree that the Nations around Israel want to exterminate it. at the same time, don't let their public talk fool you. I've heard that just before the 1967 war, Jordan secretly communicated with Israel that they, Jordan, wouldn't fight too hard if Israel wouldn't fight too hard either. against Jordan that is.

I agree that Israel exists by the will of God, at least as much as every Other Nation does.

I don't doubt that most of the Jewish people on Earth today are descended from Jacob. but that's different from saying that the current nation of Israel is the same as biblical Israel. For one thing, there is no son of David sitting on the throne. of course, one can say that Jesus is fulfilling that prophecy. but then, that would be very different from what I'm sure David imagined when he heard the prophecy about having one of his sons always on the throne.

 

[Yahshua]

That's a good point.

One corollary of that approach is that prophetic scripture becomes loose. It's pretty hard to tell if something has been fulfilled or not, or what it is that will actually happen when it is fulfilled.

Yeah that's true. And it may be on purpose. Scripture says if Satan knew the plan that he wouldn't have crucified Christ, so I assume a level of sealing is necessary from enemies of the faith...encrypted like Christ's parables are.

I'm reminded of Christ still having to reveal the scriptures to his disciples even after his resurrection showing how he fulfilled them. So they still had no clue.

...but with that said...

Christ also said "seek and you will find". He also likened the kingdom to a hidden treasure. There's also a proverb that says it's the glory of kings to seek out a matter that the living God conceals.

So I think, while prophecy may be loose, Yah is looking those who will persevere to understand...like Daniel did with the 70 year prophecy in the book of Jeremiah. He was then greeted by an angel who explained it.

 

[jameen]

9 “ ‘ “At that time those who live in the towns of Israel will go out and light a fire. They will use it to burn up the weapons. That includes small and large shields. It also includes bows and arrows, war clubs and spears. It will take seven years to burn all of them up. 10 People will not gather wood from the fields. They will not cut down the forests. Instead, they will burn the weapons. And they will rob those who robbed them. They will steal from those who stole from them,” announces the Lord and King.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel+39&version=NIRV

so I was listening to a podcast of this section while I was out walking this morning and I realized that this passage must have already been fulfilled,
or it's highly symbolic,
or there will be some drastic reduction of technology in the future.

I say that because today we would not burn the weapons of warfare, most of which would not burn anyways, and especially not burn them for cooking fires which seems to be the implication above.

Or maybe there's another option?

It will happen during Jesus' one thousand year rule when he returns again.

 

[Dan_473]

Yeah that's true. And it may be on purpose. Scripture says if Satan knew the plan that he wouldn't have crucified Christ, so I assume a level of sealing is necessary from enemies of the faith...encrypted like Christ's parables are.

I'm reminded of Christ still having to reveal the scriptures to his disciples even after his resurrection showing how he fulfilled them. So they still had no clue.

...but with that said...

Christ also said "seek and you will find". He also likened the kingdom to a hidden treasure. There's also a proverb that says it's the glory of kings to seek out a matter that the living God conceals.

So I think, while prophecy may be loose, Yah is looking those who will persevere to understand...like Daniel did with the 70 year prophecy in the book of Jeremiah. He was then greeted by an angel who explained it.

I could see that. If that's the case, then a person who has an unsealed version understanding of end times prophecy, it probably wouldn't be the right thing to do to post that on an internet Forum like this where Satan and his minions could read it.

 

[Yahshua]

I could see that. If that's the case, then a person who has an unsealed version understanding of end times prophecy, it probably wouldn't be the right thing to do to post that on an internet Forum like this where Satan and his minions could read it.

Lol well there's so much deception and misinformation today that i doubt it would be recognized as truth by those minions. But I think it's still the right thing to do to share. You'd represent the role of watchman.

And like Ezekiel says, if you're a watchman and don't sound the warning you could be called to give an account. So I think we can trust that "to those who have ears to hear" will hear while it flies over the heads of the rest as intended.

 

[Dan_473]

Lol well there's so much deception and misinformation today that i doubt it would be recognized as truth by those minions. But I think it's still the right thing to do to share. You'd represent the role of watchman.

And like Ezekiel says, if you're a watchman and don't sound the warning you could be called to give an account. So I think we can trust that "to those who have ears to hear" will hear while it flies over the heads of the rest as intended.

Right, we can be like a Watchman for other humans. I thought you meant that end times prophecy was sealed from Satan, the same way that prophecy about the Plan of Salvation was sealed from Satan.

 

[Yahshua]

Right, we can be like a Watchman for other humans. I thought you meant that end times prophecy was sealed from Satan, the same way that prophecy about the Plan of Salvation was sealed from Satan.

Yeah I did. I didn't intend to imply sealing is permanent or should continue, I was just saying that encryption from enemies was its purpose. Yah actually gave a timeframe to Daniel for the stealing of his vision for example (i.e. "till the time of the end").

The very fact that we're starting to understand things means the Father has started unsealing. I'm sure Satan's crew now knows what Christ's death was all about. In the same way, prophecy may be unsealing now specifically because it can't be prevented anymore, having served its intended purpose.

 

[Dan_473]

Yeah I did. I didn't intend to imply sealing is permanent or should continue, I was just saying that encryption from enemies was its purpose. Yah actually gave a timeframe to Daniel for the stealing of his vision for example (i.e. "till the time of the end").

The very fact that we're starting to understand things means the Father has started unsealing. I'm sure Satan's crew now knows what Christ's death was all about. In the same way, prophecy may be unsealing now specifically because it can't be prevented anymore, having served its intended purpose.

Are we definitely living in the time of the end? I ask that because several writers in the New Testament say that they were living in the last days.

What leads you to believe that we are in the time of the end? What prophecies do you believe have been unsealed in recent times?

 

[Yahshua]

Are we definitely living in the time of the end? I ask that because several writers in the New Testament say that they were living in the last days.

What leads you to believe that we are in the time of the end? What prophecies do you believe have been unsealed in recent times?

Wow that's a loaded question. How much time you got lol? I'll try to be brief.

Yes I believe both they were, and that we are, living in the last days. I believe the last days span the 2000 years since Christ has been in heaven. The last days of man's week.

----

It appears Yah has been following creation week to the very millennium based on 2 Peter 3:8 and Psalm 90:4 (I posted a few details here: https://christianchat.com/threads/what-is-the-meaning-of-hebrews-4.166450/post-3691334), continuing through to the Messiah's first appearance in the 4th millennium, fulfilling the Sun's appearance on the 4th day of creation. Christ is the "Sun of Righteousness" (Malachi 4:2). {I can provide historic proof he was born in the 4th millennium if you like, but skipped it for brevity.}

Building on the pattern, the themes of the 5th and 6th days of creation week are: beasts of the Sea and beasts of the Earth (respectively) that were created after the 4th day. And interestingly enough Revelation 13 prophesies beasts rising from the same areas: one from the Sea and another from the Earth. What are the odds? These two events are then followed by a reign of Christ that just so happens to span a millennium of all lengths of time.

So if we follow the pattern laid out for creation week - to the very millennium - then the last (nearly) 2000 years since Christ ascended were days 5 and 6 of the last days of man's week...and the pending millennium reign of Christ will be day 7; the Lord's day of rest ("The Day of the Lord"; The Sabbath).

This means the NT writers were indeed living in the last days, suffering through the appearance/reign of the beast of the sea in the 5th millennium (roughly 1-1000 CE, give or take several years; the little horn of the beast of the sea changed our measurement of time [Daniel 7:25] so it's hard to be exact). It then follows that we were personally born at the tail end of the 6th millennium (roughly 1001-2000 CE) and currently live during the time when both the beast of the sea and beast of the earth exist, with the beast of the earth currently reigning over the world as Revelation 13 said it would.

At present, we're currently waiting for the harvest by Christ when he will gather true Israel (both natural and wild branches) scattered around the world and bring them into the kingdom (the same event detailed in Daniel 7:13-14, 18, 27 = Matthew 24:28-30 = Luke 21:25-27 = Revelation 14:14 = Ezekiel 36:21-25 = Jeremiah 30:8-11 and more).

----

I tried to be a brief as possible so I didn't reference historic events for the 5th and 6th millennia. But I'm happy to share how they were/are being fulfilled in more detail if you want.

 

[Dan_473]

Wow that's a loaded question. How much time you got lol? I'll try to be brief.

Yes I believe both they were, and that we are, living in the last days. I believe the last days span the 2000 years since Christ has been in heaven. The last days of man's week.

----

It appears Yah has been following creation week to the very millennium based on 2 Peter 3:8 and Psalm 90:4 (I posted a few details here: https://christianchat.com/threads/what-is-the-meaning-of-hebrews-4.166450/post-3691334), continuing through to the Messiah's first appearance in the 4th millennium, fulfilling the Sun's appearance on the 4th day of creation. Christ is the "Sun of Righteousness" (Malachi 4:2). {I can provide historic proof he was born in the 4th millennium if you like, but skipped it for brevity.}

Building on the pattern, the themes of the 5th and 6th days of creation week are: beasts of the Sea and beasts of the Earth (respectively) that were created after the 4th day. And interestingly enough Revelation 13 prophesies beasts rising from the same areas: one from the Sea and another from the Earth. What are the odds? These two events are then followed by a reign of Christ that just so happens to span a millennium of all lengths of time.

So if we follow the pattern laid out for creation week - to the very millennium - then the last (nearly) 2000 years since Christ ascended were days 5 and 6 of the last days of man's week...and the pending millennium reign of Christ will be day 7; the Lord's day of rest ("The Day of the Lord"; The Sabbath).

This means the NT writers were indeed living in the last days, suffering through the appearance/reign of the beast of the sea in the 5th millennium (roughly 1-1000 CE, give or take several years; the little horn of the beast of the sea changed our measurement of time [Daniel 7:25] so it's hard to be exact). It then follows that we were personally born at the tail end of the 6th millennium (roughly 1001-2000 CE) and currently live during the time when both the beast of the sea and beast of the earth exist, with the beast of the earth currently reigning over the world as Revelation 13 said it would.

At present, we're currently waiting for the harvest by Christ when he will gather true Israel (both natural and wild branches) scattered around the world and bring them into the kingdom (the same event detailed in Daniel 7:13-14, 18, 27 = Matthew 24:28-30 = Luke 21:25-27 = Revelation 14:14 = Ezekiel 36:21-25 = Jeremiah 30:8-11 and more).

----

I tried to be a brief as possible so I didn't reference historic events for the 5th and 6th millennia. But I'm happy to share how they were/are being fulfilled in more detail if you want.

Looking at your other post that you linked to, it looks like the first day of creation, the separating of light from dark is Adam being separated from the garden, or God? When Adam and Eve eat the fruit, that's when their eyes are opened. In other words, more light, not being separated from light. Also it says that God created light in the beginning, so if light corresponds to the Garden of Eden, then that means the Garden of Eden was created in the beginning. But Genesis chapter 2 says that God planted the garden on an already existing Earth. It seems like quite a stretch to say that the first day of creation corresponds to Adam and Eve being sent from the garden.

But of course if one wants to take a loose version of scripture, then I'm sure there are events from each 1,000 year period That can in some way fit with what is being described in the day of creation.

Another idea if we want to find versions of the days of creation in history is removing cain to a different area from the other parts of his family, that could be separating the light from the dark.

 

[Yahshua]

Looking at your other post that you linked to, it looks like the first day of creation, the separating of light from dark is Adam being separated from the garden, or God? When Adam and Eve eat the fruit, that's when their eyes are opened. In other words, more light, not being separated from light. Also it says that God created light in the beginning, so if light corresponds to the Garden of Eden, then that means the Garden of Eden was created in the beginning. But Genesis chapter 2 says that God planted the garden on an already existing Earth. It seems like quite a stretch to say that the first day of creation corresponds to Adam and Eve being sent from the garden.

But of course if one wants to take a loose version of scripture, then I'm sure there are events from each 1,000 year period That can in some way fit with what is being described in the day of creation.

Another idea if we want to find versions of the days of creation in history is removing cain to a different area from the other parts of his family, that could be separating the light from the dark.

Sure some may argue Adam & Eve were more "illuminated" when they were convinced to sin against Yah by satan, but I don't think we'd make that argument as Christians. That's some other group's argument. Aside from that, I think we can agree that in the first millennium of man mankind was separated from Yah's personal presence (until Christ could restore mankind). Light and dark are scripturally tied to good and evil (Isaiah 45:7). And then we literally have a tree of knowing good and evil in the first story.

In terms of loose version; like we alluded to earlier there's nothing necessarily wrong with loose...but the major, core events that move the bible's story of redemption along are anything but loose right? Because without them mankind's redemption doesn't progress?

I'm by no means trying to get you to believe me, but if we take all of the chronology recorded in the pages of scripture and count it out (births; deaths; beginning and ending of reigns, etc, with year 1 of mankind being year 1 of Adam so year 930 of mankind is year 930 of Adam...and this takes a lot of patience for anyone read this post who's interesting in doing it), we see that each of the stories occur in the corresponding millennium that just so happens to relate to the theme of the particular creation day:

1) Adam (separation)
2) Noah (water)
3) Abraham, Isaac, Jacob (promised seeds)
4) Israel's Patriarchs, Kings, Christ (Sun, moon, stars)

And in each of these events Yah either declared what he would do or performed an action that corresponded to what he said and did in Creation week.

You can't get more exact than recorded chronology. Unfortunately, the chronology ends with the Acts of the Apostles..but thankfully we have the last 2000 years of recorded human history to continue on. And with Yah being true to the pattern he appears to be following for each event above, it seems reasonable to conclude that the last days of creation week have been and will be fulfilled in similar fashion; in the last millennia mankind currently has been living through.

5) Antichrist kingdom (Beast of the Sea)
6) False Prophet kingdom (Beast of the Earth)
7) Christ's 1000 year Reign (Sabbath)

----

But like I said earlier, it's one of those things where you put what you've been shown out there and it wouldn't necessarily alert satan's minions because of all the other information that's also floating out there. and if it speaks to someone then that's who it was for.

 

[Dan_473]

Sure some may argue Adam & Eve were more "illuminated" when they were convinced to sin against Yah by satan, but I don't think we'd make that argument as Christians. That's some other group's argument. Aside from that, I think we can agree that in the first millennium of man mankind was separated from Yah's personal presence (until Christ could restore mankind). Light and dark are scripturally tied to good and evil (Isaiah 45:7). And then we literally have a tree of knowing good and evil in the first story.

In terms of loose version; like we alluded to earlier there's nothing necessarily wrong with loose...but the major, core events that move the bible's story of redemption along are anything but loose right? Because without them mankind's redemption doesn't progress?

I'm by no means trying to get you to believe me, but if we take all of the chronology recorded in the pages of scripture and count it out (births; deaths; beginning and ending of reigns, etc, with year 1 of mankind being year 1 of Adam so year 930 of mankind is year 930 of Adam...and this takes a lot of patience for anyone read this post who's interesting in doing it), we see that each of the stories occur in the corresponding millennium that just so happens to relate to the theme of the particular creation day:

1) Adam (separation)
2) Noah (water)
3) Abraham, Isaac, Jacob (promised seeds)
4) Israel's Patriarchs, Kings, Christ (Sun, moon, stars)

And in each of these events Yah either declared what he would do or performed an action that corresponded to what he said and did in Creation week.

You can't get more exact than recorded chronology. Unfortunately, the chronology ends with the Acts of the Apostles..but thankfully we have the last 2000 years of recorded human history to continue on. And with Yah being true to the pattern he appears to be following for each event above, it seems reasonable to conclude that the last days of creation week have been and will be fulfilled in similar fashion; in the last millennia mankind currently has been living through.

5) Antichrist kingdom (Beast of the Sea)
6) False Prophet kingdom (Beast of the Earth)
7) Christ's 1000 year Reign (Sabbath)

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But like I said earlier, it's one of those things where you put what you've been shown out there and it wouldn't necessarily alert satan's minions because of all the other information that's also floating out there. and if it speaks to someone then that's who it was for.

Light and dark can be related to Good and Evil, but also to knowledge and lack of knowledge. Adam and Eve had more knowledge after the fruit than before. That would correspond to Greater light not separation from light. That knowledge of Good and Evil has continued with every human since Adam and Eve, I believe.

Yes, events from each of the 1000-year blocks can be found that will fit the days of creation. Now, I think that the water is receding and dry land appearing while Noah was in the ark would fit better with the third day of creation than the second.

If one takes a literal view of the years given in the genealogies, and connects it up with things like the Assyrian astronomical observations, doesn't one find within just a year or two the date of creation?