Not By Works

Hi VCO, I was born again in 1978, lots of counterfeit Christ's appeared on the scene. Concerned about not being caught up into a cult I began to read books about cults and how they can deceive even the best of Christian's.

One book in particular was eye opening called "The Kingdom of the Cult's" by Dr. Walter Martin. I very much appreciate your posting this beneficial article concerning a very well known "cult", The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

As you do, I believe their are a few people on CC who deceptively post bible verses in an attempt to spread their poison filled doctrine.

God bless!

Quote from: http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/terminologyverses.htm#JESUS CHRIST

JESUS CHRIST
LDS: He is literally our elder brother, born to Heavenly Parents in the Pre-existence. Jesus, Lucifer, angels and humans are all the same species and are brothers and sisters.

BIBLE: Jesus is fully God, not a subordinate deity. He eternally exists as God and is our creator.
Isaiah 9:6
John 8:58
1 Timothy 3:16

Can anyone recommend a book or resources concerning cults

Enjoy BillG, from pg. 69,823

Hi Posthuman, I don't believe in luck, but I do like this song.

The scriptures call the demons believers also.

Also, the apostle Paul referred to himself in first person as a Pharisee.

Yes, I still have a paperback copy of Kingdom of the Cults, that I got in a used book store, and it was autographed by Darlene Martin, which would indicate that she continued the ministry of book signing after Walter when home to be with the Lord.

the Book says the demons believe God is one.
in Acts some people in the churches first council are called 'believing pharisees'

that's not at all the same connotation.

yes, as part of a list of 'good' attributes that are worth boasting of, as if he were to boast in anything but Christ.

Guess again. Here is what it really says:

James 2:19 (NLT2)
19 You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror.


Genuine Believers Have HEART KNOWLEDGE, and a commitment to JESUS CHRIST as LORD OF THEIR LIVES.

The Demons ONLY had head knowledge, and NO COMMITMENT to JESUS CHRIST.

What it is saying in that Scripture? It is Not just acknowledging that the stories about JESUS are true, and that He really existed, that Constitudes GENUINE SAVING FAITH; it takes way more than that. You have to have an inner, personal, LOVE Commitment, with Jesus Christ as LORD, meaning MASTER.

What you do NOT realize, is the WORD Believe in English is WEAK at BEST, when a Jew said the word BELIEVE, it required him to put his WHOLE TRUST ON OR WEIGHT on WHAT HE CLAIMED TO BELIEVE. MUCH, MUCH stronger than our word Believe.

For example.

If two Jews walked up to a frozen over Lake in early Winter.
Jew #1 asked Jew #2: "Do you believe it is frozen enough for us to Walk on?"
Jew #2 said: "Yes, I do believe it is thick enough to walk on?" And then Jew #2 walked to the bank and gently put one foot out and lightly started to press down to test the ice.
Jew #1 would start Yelling: "You are a LIAR! If you truly believed it was thick enough, you would have boldly walked out on the ice and put your whole weight on it."

That story comes from the late ZOLA LEVITT, who was born an orthodox Jew, and was led to the Lord by a Baptist minister. He had a TV ministry that explained the Jewish Heritage to us Gentile Believers.

So IT IS TALKING about a Lesser Faith, because Genuine Faith would have produced as FRUIT - a LOVING Obedience and TRUST to follow through Boldly. What if we fail to Follow Through? That is ANOTHER Characteristic of a True Christian. The Characteristic of sincerely WANTING TO CONFESS SINS, 1 John 1:9.

4 It has given me great joy to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as the Father commanded us. 5 And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another. 6 And THIS IS LOVE: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

7 I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8 Watch out that you do not lose what we have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. 9 ANYONE WHO RUNS AHEAD and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. 11 Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work.

Titus 3:5 He saved us not by works of righteousness which we had done, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration, and by the renewing of the Holy Ghost,


THE RIHTEOUSNEßS OF THE JEWS WAS THROUGH THE LAW.


Deuteronomy 6:24-25 The Lord commanded us to obey all these decrees and to fear the Lord our God, so that we might always prosper and be kept alive, as is the case today. And if we are careful to obey all this law before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us, THAT WILL BE OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.”


THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRISTIANS (NEW CREATION/MAN) IS THROUGH FAITH.


Romans 9:30-32 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, A RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT IS BY FAITH; but ISRAEL, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it NOT BY FAITH but as if it were by works. THEY stumbled over the “stumbling stone.”


“NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAD DONE" REFERS TO THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE JEWS WHICH WAS THROUGH THE LAW. (titus 3:5, eph 2:8-9)


PAUL’S QUESTION IS:


Romans 3:31 Do we, then, NULLIFY the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.


HE ALSO SAID,


Romans 3:3-4 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith NULLIFY God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”


GOD PUTS AND WRITES THE LAW IN OUR HEARTS AND MINDS.


Hebrews 8:10 This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.


Hebrews 10:16 “This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”


...NOT JUST TO THE JEWS WHO WERE CIRCUMCISED IN THE FLESH BUT ALSO TO THOSE WHO WERE CIRCUMCISED IN THE HEART.


Romans 2:28-29 A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is CIRCUMCISION OF THE HEART, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God.


AND CHRISTIANS ARE ABLE TO FULFILL AND UPHOLD THE LAW IN THEIR HEARTS AND MINDS BECAUSE OF THE LOVE THAT WAS POURED INTO THEIR HEARTS.


Romans 5:5 And hope does not disappoint us, because GOD HAS POURED OUT HIS LOVE INTO OUR HEARTS by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.


AND THEREFORE, “LOVE IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW.”(romans 13:10)


1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.


1 John 5:2-3 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,


2 John 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE; THAT WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE.


Romans 10:9-10 That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your HEART that you BELIEVE and are JUSTIFIED, and it is with your MOUTH that you CONFESS and are SAVED.


1 John 3:18 Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but WITH ACTIONS AND IN TRUTH.


Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.


John 14:15 “IF YOU LOVE ME, YOU WILL OBEY WHAT I COMMAND.”


Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?


26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD also.


17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18how that they told you THERE SHOULD BE MOCKERS IN THE LAST TIME, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19These be they who separate themselves, sensual, HAVING NOT THE SPIRIT.

Did the "believing Pharisees" "Believe" in the same God as Peter?

Was it the same God which gave Peter the Spirit? Are there two different Holy Spirits out there in your religion. You all preach just believe, then Jesus gives the spirit. How is it Peter had one spirit and the "believing Pharisees" had another?

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Who are the "Fathers" here in your religion? Were they also "Believing Pharisees"?

Why would "Believing Pharisees" be placing the SAME YOKE on the Disciples that their fathers couldn't bear? Do you preach the Yoke was the Commandments of God, or were they "teaching for doctrines the commandments of men" as the Messiah said? Were the fathers omitting the weightier matters of the law, then searching far and wide for one convert then making him more of a child of hell than themselves? Or in your religion were the fathers following God's Laws, blameless?

4 For they ( Pharisees, not God as you preach) bind heavy burdens (Yoke) and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders (Necks) ; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers

In your religion, did Peter miss this sermon?

I guess it depends on the "voices" you listen to. If a person listens to the Messiah, then the YOKE the fathers couldn't bear was religious traditions which transgressed the commandments of God as the Messiah said.

But if we listen to you, the "Yoke" was God's Law which you preach Jesus "removed".

Maybe if you didn't "omit" so much of God's Word as you did on my last post, you wouldn't be so inclined to such egregious error.

Your post ignores what we were talking about.

I would think the story of Eve would discourage you from listening to so many other voices. But we are free to listen to whoever we choose.

Amen! In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God,” but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation.

*In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved.

Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

The Faith of the Centurion

5 When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6 “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.”

7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?”

8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But JUST SAY THE WORD., and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”

10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! Let it be done just as you believed it would.” And his servant was healed at that moment.


IS THIS THE KIND OF FAITH THiS “WALKING DEAD” THEOLOGY TEACHES?


DO THEY ACKNOWLEDGE AUTHORITY WHENEVER THEY SAY THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD IS NEVER A PART OF SALVATION?


romans 13

13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.


...DO THEY SAY TO GOD, “JUST SAY THE WORD…?


NO! THEY WOULD REJECT THE WORD AND BELIEVE RATHER ON FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES.


THE LORD JESUS SAID;


matthew 19

17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”


john 14

15 “If you love me, keep my commands


luke 6

46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?


john 12

47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day. 49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. 50 I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”

I can tell that you ignore the mandate that we listen to Pastors, Teachers, and Evangelists, THAT ARE NOT FALSE TEACHERS. Your MIND, is your False Teacher.

Isaiah 34:1 (NASB)
1 Draw near, O nations, to hear; and listen, O peoples! Let the earth and all it contains hear, and the world and all that springs from it.

Ecclesiastes 5:1 (NRSV)
1 Guard your steps when you go to the house of God; to draw near to listen is better than the sacrifice offered by fools; for they do not know how to keep from doing evil.

Ephesians 4:11-15 (HCSB)
11 And He personally gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers,
12 for the training of the saints in the work of ministry, to build up the body of Christ,
13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of God’s Son, ⌊growing⌋ into a mature man with a stature measured by Christ’s fullness.
14 Then we will no longer be little children, tossed by the waves and blown around by every wind of teaching, by human cunning with cleverness in the techniques of deceit.
15 But speaking the truth in love, let us grow in every way into Him who is the head—Christ.

2 Corinthians 8:18 (NJB)
18 We have sent with him the brother who is praised as an evangelist in all the churches

2 Timothy 4:5 (HCSB)
5 But as for you, be serious about everything, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

1 Timothy 3:1-5 (TLB)
1 It is a true saying that if a man wants to be a pastor he has a good ambition.
2 For a pastor must be a good man whose life cannot be spoken against. He must have only one wife,
and he must be hard working and thoughtful, orderly, and full of good deeds. He must enjoy having guests
in his home and must be a good Bible teacher.
3 He must not be a drinker or quarrelsome, but he must be gentle and kind and not be one who loves money.
4 He must have a well-behaved family, with children who obey quickly and quietly.
5 For if a man can’t make his own little family behave, how can he help the whole church?

Titus 1:7-9 (TLB)
7 These pastors must be men of blameless lives because they are God’s ministers. They must not be proud or impatient; they must not be drunkards or fighters or greedy for money.
8 They must enjoy having guests in their homes and must love all that is good. They must be sensible men, and fair. They must be clean minded and level headed.
9 Their belief in the truth that they have been taught must be strong and steadfast so that they will be able to teach it to others and show those who disagree with them where they are wrong.



Here are the Teachers that have had the Major Part in my Spiritual Growth.

The Bible teachers that have had the most influence on my spiritual growth are:


Dr. John MacArthur, Jr. - http://www.gty.org/ sermons dating back to the early 70s - free to listen to.
Dr. Adrian Rogers - http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/love-worth-finding/
Dr. Charles Stanley - http://www.intouch.org/
Dr. Richard Lee - http://www.firstredeemer.org/
Dr. Zola Levitt - http://www.levitt.tv/media/watch/118 - some free - videos
Dr. Ed Young - http://www.winningwalk.org/t-bio.aspx
Dr. Gil Rugh - http://www.ihcc.org/ - free sermons dating back to the late 70s - free
Dr. Chuck Swindoll - http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/insight-for-living/
Dr. Walter Martin - https://www.blueletterbible.org/audio_video/martin_walter/
Dr. Ben Haden - http://changedlives.org/WHY
Dr. J. Dwight Pentecost - http://www.dts.edu/read/dr-dwight-pentecost-dies-age-99/

As well as the Pastors of Churches that I attended; Pastor Neil Berry and Pastor Gordan Broadbent especially.

WHAT A SHAME. NOTICE AND WATCH THESE OSAS PASTORS AND CHURCH LEADERS WHO CLAIM AND DECLARE THAT “FAITH ALONE” SAVES AND IT IS “NOT BY WÒRKS” OF RIGHTEOUSNESS AND OBEDIENCE, WHILE ON THE OTHER HAND COLLECTS TITHES FROM THEIR MEMBERS SAYING THAT IF THEY WOULD NOT GIVE TITHES, THEY ARE ROBBING GOD.

19 Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame.

..THAT TITHE-GIVING IS A TEST OF FAITH AND THAT GOD WILL BLESS THEM ABUNDANTLY BECAUSE WHAT THEY GIVE WILL COME BACK TO THEM IN GOOD MEASURE AND RUNNING OVER.(luke 6:38)


“NOT BY WORKS” OF THE LAW, THEY SAY, BUT THEY COLLECT TITHES ACCORDING TO THE LAW WHILE AT THE SAME TIME CLAIM THAT THEY ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW.


THEY HAVE CREATED A MAN MADE DOCTRINE PASSED ON FROM GENERATION TO GENERATION OUT OF A GOD-GIVEN LAW FOR HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE.

THAT’S HOW THESE VIPERS IN THEIR GREED AND HYPOCRISY DECEIVE THEIR PREYS.(UNKNOWING VICTIMS)

THEY THINK THEY CAN BR IBE GOD.

33 Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God!
How unsearchable his judgments,
and his paths beyond tracing out!
34 “Who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has been his counselor?”
35 “Who has ever given to God,
that God should repay them?”
36 For from him and through him and for him are all things.
To him be the glory forever! Amen.

THESE VIPERS WILL STILL BE SAVED ACCORDING TO THE OSAS DOCTRINE…

...WHICH IS CONTRARY TO WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES.

11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or GREEDY, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the GREEDY nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or GREEDY person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.


MAN GOT SEPARATED FROM GOD BECAUSE OF THE SIN OF DISOBEDIENCE WHEN MAN WAS DECEIVED BY THE SERPENT WHO SAID THAT “...Ye shall not surely die.”(genesis 3:4)


DÈCEIVERS OF THIS AGE SAYS THE SAME THING;


“YE SHALL NOT SURELY DIE (PERIßH / BE CONDEMNED). ONCE YOU'RE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS ßAVED. JUST HAVE FAITH VOID OF WORKS (OF RIGHTEOUSNESS / ÒBEDIENCE) AND YOU WILL POSSESS ETERNAL LIFE THE MOMENT YOU BELIEVE


DO NOT BE DECEIVED!!!


OSAS AND FAS ARE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES!!!


3 What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness?4 Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar. As it is written:

“So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge.”

It was just a simple question that is clearly stated in the Word, that the Covenant was made with Jacob/Israyl as a Law and it was never made with Ismael son of Haggar.

Well YHWH sets people free from sin:

John 8:34-36, “יהושע answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone doing sin is a servant of sin. And the servant does not stay in the house forever – a son stays forever. If, then, the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.”

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

Antinomians seem to have the approach that the righteous Instructions are the problem so remove that and all is well. However the reality is that Sin is the problem...

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

The Law is liberty:

Psalm 119:44-45, "That I might guard Your Law continually, Forever and ever; That I might walk in liberty, For I have sought Your orders;"

James 1:22-25, “And become doers of the Word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. Because if anyone is a hearer of the Word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror, for he looks at himself, and goes away, and immediately forgets what he was like. But he that looked into the perfect Law of liberty, and continues in it, not becoming a hearer that forgets, but a doer of work, this one shall be blessed in his doing.”

James 2:8-12, “If you truly accomplish the sovereign Law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you do well, but if you show partiality, you commit sin, being found guilty by the Law as transgressors. For whoever shall guard all the Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” (Exo 20:14) also said, “Do not murder.” (Exo 20:13) Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of Law. So speak and so do as those who are to be judged by the Law of liberty.”

While I don't disagree with this in relative terms, people have much different views on what this means. If it is another way to say the Law is abolished it is falsehood, if it is the reality that we need His mercy before anything or we are doomed then I would agree...

Psalm 111:7-8, “The works of His hands are truth and right-ruling, All His orders are trustworthy, They are upheld forever and ever, Performed in truth and straightness.”

John 8:51 “Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone guards My Word he shall never see death at all.”

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."