OT Salvation?

Exactly! He knew his sacrifice wasn't accepted the same way he knew that Abel's was...the fire from heaven.

It is hard for the righteous to be saved, otherwise there is no need to add the ungodly and the sinner. It's saying they will not be saved if it's even hard for those who do give effort. It's only an oxymoron to those who have not ears to hear and eyes to see.

Good catch! And this is in keeping with this from Luke 1

Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Faith without deeds is dead, and a dead faith is no faith at all, therefore obedience is just as necessary for salvation as faith.

Many are called but few are chosen. (Because few do more than wear God's name, they obey Him as well). God called His people out of Egypt, agreed? There were 600,000 of them, and thats only counting the men. Yet of all the israelites from the old testament, only 144,000 were saved, not 600,000+. Jesus tells à parable about the lazy wicked servant. Was he was a genuine servant of the master? Yes. Where did he end up? "Where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth" (hell).

This makes my head hurt. The 144,000 have nothing to do with the Exodus. Most of Israel perished in the wilderness because of their rebellion against God while Moses was on the mount with God.

You misapply James so there is little to discuss in this post. Obedience according to James is an evidence of salvation not a requirement for salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

OT people were saved the same way Abraham was.

Gen tells us that Abraham was declared righteous because he had faiht in God, before he did any work.

It could not be by being obedient to the law. Because the law conemned everyone who does not obey every letter, And only Christ did this.

It was not animal sacrifice, Hebrews is clear. The blood of bull and goat never took away sin

It was and has always been by faith in God, In the OT they had faith God would save us, We in NT have faith God will save us, The only difference is we know how. where it was a mystery to them.

It's not hard for GOD to save the righteous, but it doesn't come without difficulties for the righteous. And if they are saved through difficulties, how will the ungodly be saved who do not love the truth enough to suffer for it?

I "knew" the answer to the question above, but after reading the previous post, I felt I was facing the truth/question regarding my faith, so I might have come across flippantly in answering...

Ecclesiastes 9:11 I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

I've sensed a definite "shift" in my life/walk since coming to CC...praise God, and I really don't know anything as I ought, but I'm in the race!
Thank You, Lord.

Those in the old testament covenant were saved by faith through God's grace.
Genesis 15 , Psalm 32

You are reading 1 Peter 4:18 through the lens of works salvation. There is a justifiable need to "add the ungodly and the sinner" because if the righteous need disciplinary judgments, how much more will the unrighteous deserve the wrath of God whose offer of righteousness through faith they have rejected? The Greek word "molis" means "hardly" or "scarcely" and reveals the difficulty with which believers are brought to the end of their faith--the salvation of their souls through the fires of unjust suffering, persecution, divine purging and discipline.

Your argument, and I quote, "Our obedience doesn't save us, but God only chooses to save those who obey" is an OXYMORON. God saves believers who have chosen to place their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation (Romans 5:1; Ephesians 2:8,9). Choosing to believe the gospel is the act of obedience that saves (Romans 1:16; 10:16).

In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

*Obedience/works which follows and is produced "out of" faith is the fruit of salvation, but not the root of it.

Unfortunately, there are many who set out to obey God (on their terms, not His) and seek salvation by works. Few are chosen because there are few who truly trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation and instead, trust in their works to save them.

Jude 1:5 - Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.

No. The first two servants deposited their money with the bankers (Matthew 25:27) but the third servant buried his money in the ground (vs. 25). The third servant had been given abilities and the opportunity to believe and bear fruit in accordance, but had chosen to reject it.

The fact that the latter man in this parable is called wicked and lazy and an unprofitable servant (Matthew 25:30) who is cast out into outer darkness, certainly indicates that he was not a true disciple of the master. *The idea of this illustrative parable is that all true believers will produce fruit in varying degress. *All believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful (Matthew 13:23). *Those who produce no results at all are not truly converted. Faith without works is dead, remember?

This man's characterization of the master maligns him as "reaping and gathering" what he had no right to claim as his own. This wicked, lazy so-called servant does not represent a genuine believer, for it is obvious that this man had no true knowledge of the master. Two of these servants were children of God, but not the third. Children of God are not cast out into outer darkness. The fact that this man is called a "servant" does not mean necessarily that he is saved. *Israel (the Jews) were called the Lord’s servants, but they were not all saved. *Isaiah 43:10 - “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen.

I have already previously explained this to you below in posts #60 and #73.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...word-never-lose-their-salvation.177734/page-3

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...se-their-salvation.177734/page-4#post-3640402

Only the unrighteous (not the righteous) end up in hell (Matthew 25:46; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

I don't know anything YET as I ought...
How do I "know" I'm in the race?
Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I PURSUE, IF that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended by Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 11
39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Bingo to both posts! And even then, their sins were not washed away like yours and mine. They were forgiven but not washed. That's why they did not experience salvation like you and I.

Don't forget that the sacrificial system was placed within the law to make allowance for sins to be forgiven. If an OT saint under the law had faith but did not follow the law, they were accursed from God.

O.T. Saints saved by faith looking forward to the cross

N.T. Saints saved by faith looking back to the Cross

Abraham BELIEVED GOD and it was put to his account for righteousness

Therefore we conclude a man is justified by faith WITHOUT the deeds/works of the Law

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE

In the grace you are, having been saved OUT OF FAITH and that NOT OF YOURSELVES, IT IS THE GIFT OF God and not of works lest any man should boast...!!

In both the Old and New Testaments it takes a blood sacrifice to take away our sins. In the Old Testament the preferred sacrifice was an unblemished Lamb. Living a sinless life Jesus became the Unblemished Lamb of God and his sacrifice allows all to have the opportunity to accept his sacrifice and be saved by grace through faith in Jesus.

You have it confused. If we accept Jesus as our savior we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus.
When that happens our sins are imputed to Jesus and his righteousness is imputed to us. At judgement time God sees us with the blood of Christ covering our sins.

Also Jesus told Christians that we can see if a person is a Christian by looking at their fruits (works). James 2 states that works doesn't save but faith without works is dead. No works no faith. Both the quote of Jesus and James 2 make this connection

Abraham also made the required yearly sacrifice to God.

Romans 5
6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin,and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.