OT Salvation?

[Embankment]

Hebrews 10
4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
8 First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them”—though they were offered in accordance with the law. 9 Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

 

[dcontroversal]

Abraham also made the required yearly sacrifice to God.

So what...it had nothing to do with his eternal salvation given by faith....ZERO, NIL, NOTHING, NADDA!!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Abraham also made the required yearly sacrifice to God.

Where is that written?

 

[John146]

So what...it had nothing to do with his eternal salvation given by faith....ZERO, NIL, NOTHING, NADDA!!

There's a difference between righteousness in the OT and God's righteousness in the NT available after the resurrection. There's too many to post.

Deut. 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the Lord our God, as he hath commanded us.

2 Samuel 22:21 The Lord rewarded me according to my righteousness: according to the cleanness of my hands hath he recompensed me.

Luke 1:6 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

And btw, faith demands works. Faith without works is dead, being alone.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

OT people were saved the same way Abraham was.

Gen tells us that Abraham was declared righteous because he had faiht in God, before he did any work.

It could not be by being obedient to the law. Because the law conemned everyone who does not obey every letter, And only Christ did this.

It was not animal sacrifice, Hebrews is clear. The blood of bull and goat never took away sin

It was and has always been by faith in God, In the OT they had faith God would save us, We in NT have faith God will save us, The only difference is we know how. where it was a mystery to them.

What does this verse mean? And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day. And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he has commanded us. Deut. 6:24,25

Yes, Abraham had faith in God and that was accounted unto him for righteousness - I guess that would mean that 1 & 2 would be correct . . . . .

 

[dcontroversal]

There's a difference between righteousness in the OT and God's righteousness in the NT available after the resurrection. There's too many to post.

Deut. 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the Lord our God, as he hath commanded us.

2 Samuel 22:21 The Lord rewarded me according to my righteousness: according to the cleanness of my hands hath he recompensed me.

Luke 1:6 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

And btw, faith demands works. Faith without works is dead, being alone.

Both were/are saved by faith...NO WORKS REQUIRED TO OBTAIN ETERNAL SALVATION!

 

[grace77]

it is easy to get this exactly backwards. The works that we do by the Spirit are impossible for the flesh to do. Too many people just do human things and then claim that it is by the Spirit...in keeping with the idea that their own beliefs justify them...it is a vicious circle of false assurances based on a false conscience. I am just saying you have to be careful that it is really the Holy Spirit at work. Can other people do what you do that aren't believers? If so do you condemn them for doing what you are doing because they don't have the right beliefs? Do you see what I'm saying?

Amen. Thank you for the truth...

 

[Zmouth]

How were those, who lived before the time that Jesus was crucified and rose from the dead, saved?

The same way that Jesus was saved, by the Holy Ghost.

• Mark 11:30
• Romans 6:3
• Matthew 3:16

Do you think that Jesus was the first person that the LORD raised from the dead?

• Luke 16:31

How were their sins forgiven back then?

The same way Jesus was saved and the same way man will always be saved, by their hope in the LORD.

• Romans 8:24

 

[Deuteronomy]

The same way that Jesus was saved, by the Holy Ghost.

• Mark 11:30
• Romans 6:3
• Matthew 3:16

Why do you believe that Jesus needed to be "saved"??

Do you think that Jesus was the first person that the LORD raised from the dead?

• Luke 16:31

There was the "other" Lazarus, the friend of Mary and Martha's (in John 11) that Jesus raised from the dead (though He said that he was just "sleeping" if memory serves). Jesus is/will always be the firstborn from the dead however .. Colossians 1:18.

Pretty sure no one was raised from the dead in Luke 16:31, even though the rich man had hoped Father Abraham would send that Lazarus to his brothers from Paradise as a warning to them.

The same way Jesus was saved and the same way man will always be saved, by their hope in the LORD.

• Romans 8:24

I agree with you about being saved by faith/trust/hope in the Lord, OT or NT, but I'm certain that the Lord never needed to save Himself, or He wouldn't have been able to save us

~Deut

 

[Nehemiah6]

Why do you believe that Jesus needed to be "saved"??

Zmouth has a lot of strange and bizarre ideas.

 

[Zmouth]

Why do you believe that Jesus needed to be "saved"??

That which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

There was the "other" Lazarus, the friend of Mary and Martha's (in John 11) that Jesus raised from the dead (though He said that he was just "sleeping" if memory serves). Jesus is/will always be the firstborn from the dead however .. Colossians 1:18.

Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead. John 11:14

Pretty sure no one was raised from the dead in Luke 16:31, even though the rich man had hoped Father Abraham would send that Lazarus to his brothers from Paradise as a warning to them.

Really? then how was Abraham speaking to the rich man who was buried?

Yet there was the child raised from the dead in OT 2 Kings 4:32-35

I agree with you about being saved by faith/trust/hope in the Lord, OT or NT, but I'm certain that the Lord never needed to save Himself, or He wouldn't have been able to save us

~Deut

Saved you from what?

 

[John146]

Both were/are saved by faith...NO WORKS REQUIRED TO OBTAIN ETERNAL SALVATION!

Can you explain the Deuteronomy passage and many others? If they were saved, why weren't they absent from the body and present with the Lord? What were they saved to? Abraham's bosom? Is that eternal salvation? Were they born again? Were they sealed by the Holy Spirit? Were they placed in Christ? Please give Scriptures.

 

[Embankment]

Matthew 27
51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and[e] went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What does this verse mean? And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day. And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he has commanded us. Deut. 6:24,25

Yes, Abraham had faith in God and that was accounted unto him for righteousness - I guess that would mean that 1 & 2 would be correct . . . . .

Paul said it best when he quoted moses, and spoke of the faith of abraham

Gal 3: 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
The Law Brings a Curse
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed iseveryone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

So there is no way 1 is correct, bcause the standard set by God when he gave the law was perfection, show me one person other than christ who fulfilled that standard,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Don't forget that the sacrificial system was placed within the law to make allowance for sins to be forgiven. If an OT saint under the law had faith but did not follow the law, they were accursed from God.

Again, hebrews answers this comment. The blood of bulls and goats NEVER took away sin.

We should not excuse or make allowance for sin, ever

 

[John146]

Again, hebrews answers this comment. The blood of bulls and goats NEVER took away sin.

We should not excuse or make allowance for sin, ever

Leviticus 19
21 And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the Lord, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, even a ram for a trespass offering.
22 And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the Lord for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him.

Again, those OT saints had to offer sacrifices for their sins to be forgiven. If not, they were cut off from God. These sacrifices, like Hebrews tells us, could never take away sins, but could temporarily forgive them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Leviticus 19
21 And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the Lord, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, even a ram for a trespass offering.
22 And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the Lord for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him.

Again, those OT saints had to offer sacrifices for their sins to be forgiven. If not, they were cut off from God. These sacrifices, like Hebrews tells us, could never take away sins, but could temporarily forgive them.

If jesus dd not die on the cross, no one would have made it,

Never means never, the ot sacrifice was part of the tutor relationship of the law. It was to lead peole t christ when he arrived.

The were saved by faih alone, the works followed faith, but many did the sacrfices yet will never see god, because they did not have the faith of abraham.

 

[Latour]

It is hard for the righteous to be saved, otherwise there is no need to add the ungodly and the sinner. It's saying they will not be saved if it's even hard for those who do give effort. It's only an oxymoron to those who have not ears to hear and eyes to see.

The KJV puts it...the righteous are scarcely saved. I see this as "barely" saved....meaning it is the minimum requirement for ultimate salvation to be righteous. Holiness brings a reward, however.

 

[Latour]

Leviticus 19
21 And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the Lord, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, even a ram for a trespass offering.
22 And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the Lord for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him.

Again, those OT saints had to offer sacrifices for their sins to be forgiven. If not, they were cut off from God. These sacrifices, like Hebrews tells us, could never take away sins, but could temporarily forgive them.

It is temporary meaning they are truly forgiven but it is not a dealing with what makes us sin. Give a man a fish and he eats for a day...but teach him to fish.... So it is with forgiveness. Forgive a man today and he will yet sin tomorrow...but give a man the grace that overcomes sin...and you have something permanent to deal with sin. The OT had no provision for overcoming sin. But we have Jesus Christ and His life to overcome in.

 

[OneFaith]

The KJV puts it...the righteous are scarcely saved. I see this as "barely" saved....meaning it is the minimum requirement for ultimate salvation to be righteous. Holiness brings a reward, however.

And I see the barely/scarcely as amount.