What should our views be on LGBT

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CS1

CS1

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#61
May 23, 2012
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#61
DiscipleDave said:
Being a Homosexual is no more a sin than a person being a Heterosexual or bi sexual or transexual or transgender or what have you.

Who you are attracted to is not what is considered sinful. Acting upon it, now that is what is sinful.

A Homosexual who has a sexual relationship with the same sex, commits sin. Even as a Heterosexual who has a sexual relationship with another not being married to that person, commits sin.

The ONLY sexual relationship that God approves of is between a Husband and his Wife. All other sexual relationship with another is sinful.

i agree that homosexual acts of sex are indeed sin. So is lying. So is looking at porn. So is Failing to Love One Another.
We are commanded to Love One Another, so when you fail to do so, you commit sin. Are we so concerned about the sins of others that we fail to get rid of the sins that so easily besets us? First get rid of the sin that is in your own life, so that you will be better able to see clearly how to tell others that their sinning should cease.

Do you think other should cease their sinning, yet you do not cease your own sinning? how is that not hypocritical? The problem with this generation is that people put a value on one sin above another sin. Therefore it makes them feel better about the sins that they are committing, because those sins are not nearly as bad as other sins. A person who steals a million dollars and a person who steals a pencil from work. BOTH disobeyed God and stole. People put a value on which one is worse than the other, But to God they both stole, they Both disobeyed Him. We are so focused on the sins of the Homosexuals, that we fail to address the sins that are in our own lives, because why? Because Homosexual sins are far worse than the ones you commit, right? WRONG!!!

If a Homosexual person is in your presence and you are NOT Loving them, you commit sin, because you fail to Love One Another as our Savior Jesus Christ Commanded us to do, He did ask us to do, He didn't say Try to do it, He COMMANDED us to do it. If you don't you are the one that committed sin.

And the worse thing yet, Is if a person repents of a sin, they are forgiven for that sin if they are Truly sorry for that sin. The problem i see with this generation, is people Failing to Love One Another all over the place, and i doubt one person is asking for forgiveness from God for Failing to love one another. Do you ask God to forgive you for cutting off that person in traffic, i think not. But you committed sin because you Failed to Love that person, and if you do not ask for forgiveness for that sin, then that sin still remains stained on you. Did you have a dollar to give but Fail to give to a bum? Did you repent for Failing to love that person asking you for money, or did you altogether convince yourself that person is probably richer than you, and make yourself feel justified by not giving? Therefore since you feel justified for NOT giving to someone asking you for money, why would you repent of Failing to Love One Another?

LOVE ONE ANOTHER, start now before its to late.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
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NO I disagree ,

that too is a tactic of those who support homosexuality and many cry the same thing:

wrong thinking here :

  • Who you are attracted to is not what is considered sinful.
Attracted too is a PC term for lusting after. Watered down perversion



Jesus said “whosoever looks “ with lust Matt 5.

  • A Homosexual who has a sexual relationship with the same sex, commits sin. Even as a Heterosexual who has a sexual relationship with another not being married to that person, commits sin.
True however, you can’t justify a sin by pointing out another sin.



  • “We are commanded to Love One Another, so when you fail to do so, you commit sin. “
Yes we are but saying sin is sin and telling the truth is LOVE, the idea that telling a gay person God will never accept your relationship no more then HE would a fornicator , drunker, etc.. is not judgement it is truth.



  • Do you think other should cease their sinning, yet you do not cease your own sinning?
Sounds like one trying to justify a sin . again pointing out a sin to give acceptance to another sin is also sin.



  • The problem with this generation is that people put a value on one sin above another sin. Therefore it makes them feel better about the sins that they are committing, because those sins are not nearly as bad as other sins.
That is a very deceptive view all sin is bad , bur God standard is there in the word of God and it was God who called homosexuality an abomination . The Good News is Jesus can save us from our sins.

It is not the drunker who has organized , and tried to create laws to silence the church concerning this sin.



  • If a Homosexual person is in your presence and you are NOT Loving them, you commit sin, because you fail to Love One Another as our Savior Jesus Christ Commanded us to do, He did ask us to do, He didn't say Try to do it, He COMMANDED us to do it. If you don't you are the one that committed sin.
False narrative and guilt trip . The context to love in this point is don’t say sin is sin and just love them by accepting their sin. If we know it is sin and do not say that is sin and tell them about the outcome of those who die in sin are lost forever you are sinning. Because all Christians are Command by Jesus to preach the gospel. Everyone remembers John 3:16 but there is also verses 17-19 Jesus came to save us from our sin. Not have Christians go PC to protect a sin.
 
Smitty

Smitty

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May 30, 2018
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jameen said:
Brother, you cannot simply change a homosexual to turn away from their cross dressing and same sex relationships by telling that oh it is wrong and God will be mad at you..... He will send you to hell.

This is where to commandment of Jesus applies in Revelation 22 that let the wicked become more wicked... the filthy become more filthy.

but still you need to pray for these people that someday they themselves will realize that they are wrong and they will automatically stop it.
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I agree prayer is our greatest weapon. You can not force change in behavior
 
CS1

CS1

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#63
May 23, 2012
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Smitty said:
I agree prayer is our greatest weapon. You can not force change in behavior
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prayer is nothing if it is not done in faith. No one said to force one to change behavior in fact the Chino's are the ones who have comprmised the word of God today. Many Pastors will not call what the Bible says is sin because they are afraid. They will not do so because it is unpopular. If they will not preach the truth when it is unpopular why will they preach it when the Word of God becomes illegal ? AB 2943 in Califorina is to stop the Gospel message. No one said to say


" oh it is wrong and God will be mad at you..... He will send you to hell. "

Please show me were that was said?

Please find your waords in my statement here:

The context to love in this point is don’t say sin is sin and just love them by accepting their sin. If we know it is sin and do not say that is sin and tell them about the outcome of those who die in sin are lost forever you are sinning. Because all Christians are Command by Jesus to preach the gospel. Everyone remembers John 3:16 but there is also verses 17-19 Jesus came to save us from our sin. Not have Christians go PC to protect a sin.
 
DiscipleDave

DiscipleDave

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Sep 4, 2012
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#64
CS1 said:
NO I disagree ,

that too is a tactic of those who support homosexuality and many cry the same thing:

wrong thinking here :

  • Who you are attracted to is not what is considered sinful.
Attracted too is a PC term for lusting after. Watered down perversion
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Are you being serious right now. So when you see an actor or actress on TV and think wow that person is very attractive, then you think that is LUSTING. Really? Know you not that Lusting is the Desire to HAVE.

definition of Lust = very strong sexual desire.

Are you trying to teach people that if they are attracted to a person then they have a very strong sexual desire to be with that person? You do error with that logic. i think my best friend is attractive, and i have absolutely NO sexual desire whatsoever to be with my best friend. You do error think if a person is attracted to another, then they are LUSTING.

CS1 said:
Jesus said “whosoever looks “ with lust Matt 5.
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Amen, this is absolutely TRUE. Any Married person who looks upon another with sexual desire, commits sin. You use a verse to support your logic, which does not support it at all. Show a relevant verse that teaches what you are saying, that if your are merely attracted to someone that means you are LUSTING after them, that you have a sexual desire for them. You do error in this logic.

  • DiscipleDave said :A Homosexual who has a sexual relationship with the same sex, commits sin. Even as a Heterosexual who has a sexual relationship with another not being married to that person, commits sin.
CS1 said:
True however, you can’t justify a sin by pointing out another sin.
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Agreed, Glad i did not do that. Please reread what i actually said, there is NO justification going on in the above statement.



  • DiscipleDave said :“We are commanded to Love One Another, so when you fail to do so, you commit sin. “
CS1 said:
Yes we are but saying sin is sin and telling the truth is LOVE, the idea that telling a gay person God will never accept your relationship no more then HE would a fornicator , drunker, etc.. is not judgement it is truth.
Click to expand...
And you think i have said different than that? i 100% agree with your statement here, but it seems for some reason you think i don't



  • DiscipleDave said : Do you think other should cease their sinning, yet you do not cease your own sinning?
CS1 said:
Sounds like one trying to justify a sin . again pointing out a sin to give acceptance to another sin is also sin.

Sound to me, like you do not understand what i said. For some reason it is in your mind that i have somehow justified a sin, which thing i have Never done nor will ever do. It is in your own mind that i am doing that.



  • DiscipleDave: The problem with this generation is that people put a value on one sin above another sin. Therefore it makes them feel better about the sins that they are committing, because those sins are not nearly as bad as other sins.
CS1 said:
That is a very deceptive view all sin is bad ,
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sigh.. ... . . Please reread what i just said, what i said is TRUTH, and is not a deceptive view. But clearly says that people put values on different sins, and i said that was a problem, then you say the same thing but say mine is a deceptive view. sigh . .. ... .


CS1 said:
bur God standard is there in the word of God and it was God who called homosexuality an abomination .
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You call Homosexuality a sin and an abomination. God does not. God plainly and clearly calls the ACT of Homosexuals an abomination. Do you see how you play God and say that a person who is a Homosexual is an abomination. Scriptures does not teach that, wicked people teach that. God teaches the ACT is an abomination, YOU teach merely being attracted to the same sex is an abomination. YOU are wrong and are decieved by satan in believing that, which thing God nor His Word teaches. You teach that if a person is attracted to the same sex they are an abomination to God, do you not? You are in error and teach things no different then the doctrine of the Nicolaitans.


CS1 said:
The Good News is Jesus can save us from our sins.
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The Good news is, the Word of God teaches us plainly what sin is. And who you are attracted to, is NOT a sin according to God, but is a sin according to men.

CS1 said:
It is not the drunker who has organized , and tried to create laws to silence the church concerning this sin.
Click to expand...
just because you call something a sin, does not make it a sin. If you are able to, can you show one verse in all of Scriptures that teaches who you are ATTRACTED to is considered a sin. You can't because it is not a sin. Now the ACT of sex between same sexes is most certainly a sin, and we have Scriptures that support that. But YOU teach it is a sin if a person is merely attracted to the same sex, something God nor Scriptures ever teaches.



  • DiscipleDave said : If a Homosexual person is in your presence and you are NOT Loving them, you commit sin, because you fail to Love One Another as our Savior Jesus Christ Commanded us to do, He did ask us to do, He didn't say Try to do it, He COMMANDED us to do it. If you don't you are the one that committed sin.
CS1 said:
False narrative and guilt trip . The context to love in this point is don’t say sin is sin and just love them by accepting their sin.
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lol, who is whispering in your ear to tell you that that context of what i said above is what you are saying now. lol. We are commanded to Love One Another, even our enemies. You do error not understanding what i am actually saying. Maybe you are very young, how old are you?

CS1 said:
If we know it is sin and do not say that is sin and tell them about the outcome of those who die in sin are lost forever you are sinning.
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Who said not to tell them it is sin? If they are engaging sexual acts, then that is sin and that needs to be addressed, who has said otherwise? The problem is your logic that says just because a person is attracted to the same sex, that they are sinning. You do error in that logic, and that logic is your opinion and is in no way Scriptural.

CS1 said:
Because all Christians are Command by Jesus to preach the gospel.
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Yes we are to preach the gospel. The problem is , you are teaching things that are not gospel, nor are they even in the Word of God at all. You teach that it is sin to even be attracted to the same sex. That, Scriptures does NOT teach. Scriptures reveals to us what sin is, you can't show one Scripture that teaches who you are attracted to is sin. That is what YOU teach, NOT Scriptures.

NO i am not condoning, nor do i approve of any ungodly sexual acts. A person who engages in sexual acts with the same sex, is a sin, it is an abomination to God. A person who engages in sexual acts with someone not their spouse, is a sin, it is an abomination to God.
Who you are attracted to, IS NOT A SEXUAL act. who you are attracted to, is not what is SIN according to Scriptures.

i know a gay Christian who is celibate, and will never have a sexual relationship again. Tell me CS1, Since He is attracted to men, is he an abomination to God? No hope for him to go to Heaven? What because he is attracted to men, gay, He sins? You do error in not understanding the Truth concerning this matter.


CS1 said:
Everyone remembers John 3:16 but there is also verses 17-19 Jesus came to save us from our sin. Not have Christians go PC to protect a sin.
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Anyone who tries to protect a sin, or condones a sin, is evil and wicked, and not fit for the Kingdom of Heaven.
Anyone who says and teaches something is a sin, which Scriptures does not teach that it is a sin, is likewise as the above.

Don't you teach that if you are attracted to the same sex, that is a sin. Scriptures does NOT teach that. Who made you a judge to determine what is sin and what is not sin? Scriptures teaches us what is sin and what is not sin.


^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
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Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

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Mar 12, 2015
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GardenofWeeden said:
Why am I supposed to have a "view" on things that don't affect me?
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So that you, you as a Christian, can use that information as a tool to witness and warn people about God's coming wrath and how to escape it through faith in Christ. Otherwise if they never receive Christ then they remain separated from God and are on their way to condemning judgment.

"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give youa this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.” - Rev.22:16

"Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near." - Rev.1:3
 
MessageOfTheCross

MessageOfTheCross

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Sep 3, 2016
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Ahwatukee said:
So that you, you as a Christian, can use that information as a tool to witness and warn people about God's coming wrath and how to escape it through faith in Christ. Otherwise if they never receive Christ then they remain separated from God and are on their way to condemning judgment.

"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give youa this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.” - Rev.22:16

"Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near." - Rev.1:3
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Ahwatukee said:
So that you, you as a Christian, can use that information as a tool to witness and warn people about God's coming wrath and how to escape it through faith in Christ. Otherwise if they never receive Christ then they remain separated from God and are on their way to condemning judgment.

"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give youa this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.” - Rev.22:16

"Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near." - Rev.1:3
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Then saith He unto His disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few; Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that He will send forth labourers into His harvest. (Matthew 9:37-38)
 
GardenofWeeden

GardenofWeeden

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The Garden of Weeden
#68
The BIble also says that believers are to mind their own business (1thes 4:11)....so which is correct? Am I to mind my own business, or be a busybody and have an opinion on every moral crisis someone else might have. I can love people and never mention, or consider a single part of their personalities. But that's just my thinking there. You're free to you way of thinking too :)
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

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Mar 12, 2015
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#69
GardenofWeeden said:
The BIble also says that believers are to mind their own business (1thes 4:11)....so which is correct? Am I to mind my own business, or be a busybody and have an opinion on every moral crisis someone else might have. I can love people and never mention, or consider a single part of their personalities. But that's just my thinking there. You're free to you way of thinking too :)
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Good day GardenofWeeden,

"Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them."

Regarding your quote of 1 Thes.4:11, read the entire context to understand what Paul is referring to by not being a busy body. It does not mean to not proclaim the truth or warn unbelievers regarding the coming wrath of God. It does not mean turning a blind eye to people regarding where the world is heading.

"Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near."

The book of Revelation, for the most part, is a detailed account of the long prophesied "Day of the Lord" the time of God's wrath, which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. These plagues of wrath are going to be coming upon the entire earth, with the majority of the population being decimated. By studying end-time events we can know what is going to come upon the earth and we can use this information to warn unbelievers and to share with them how to escape God's coming wrath upon the earth, as well as condemning judgment through faith in Christ.

"How then can they call on the One in whom they have not believed? And how can they believe in the One of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone to preach? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”
 
CS1

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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DiscipleDave said:
Are you being serious right now. So when you see an actor or actress on TV and think wow that person is very attractive, then you think that is LUSTING. Really? Know you not that Lusting is the Desire to HAVE.

definition of Lust = very strong sexual desire.

Are you trying to teach people that if they are attracted to a person then they have a very strong sexual desire to be with that person? You do error with that logic. i think my best friend is attractive, and i have absolutely NO sexual desire whatsoever to be with my best friend. You do error think if a person is attracted to another, then they are LUSTING.



Amen, this is absolutely TRUE. Any Married person who looks upon another with sexual desire, commits sin. You use a verse to support your logic, which does not support it at all. Show a relevant verse that teaches what you are saying, that if your are merely attracted to someone that means you are LUSTING after them, that you have a sexual desire for them. You do error in this logic.

  • DiscipleDave said :A Homosexual who has a sexual relationship with the same sex, commits sin. Even as a Heterosexual who has a sexual relationship with another not being married to that person, commits sin.


Agreed, Glad i did not do that. Please reread what i actually said, there is NO justification going on in the above statement.



  • DiscipleDave said :“We are commanded to Love One Another, so when you fail to do so, you commit sin. “


And you think i have said different than that? i 100% agree with your statement here, but it seems for some reason you think i don't



  • DiscipleDave said : Do you think other should cease their sinning, yet you do not cease your own sinning?
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Saying some is someone is attractive and using that feeling as normality is what many homosexual do to justify the sin. The context to my statement is not as you are suggesting. Are you gay? Are you part of the LGBTQ sexual preference?

The Law of attraction and saying I think some is attractive are in the context of the one who sees the person as such.

The long argument of those who are practicing homosexuality is why would I be attracted to this person if it were not normal.
When the attraction move to sexual sin , that had to be lust before they even acted on the sin to begin with. Lust starts with subtle sugestion which plays on the sinful nature. The Defintion of lust Biblically is one of the heart not just a strong desire to have sex.

Jesus said who so ever look with lust in his heart. looking at a person and thinking or say they are attractive is not what I am saying.
 
socalpoppy

socalpoppy

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May 7, 2018
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#71
I think enough Christians are condemning LGBT (aren't there more letters now?) I want to try love. I choose to love the people that come into my life regardless of their "sin profile".
 
J

JB2018

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#72
storm1485 said:
Hey all,

I seem to never be on the same page with other Christians when it comes to LGBT issues. I see it as a disgusting sin that brings judgment upon the nations that accept its practice.

I'm always get accused of being judgemental, they say hate the sin not the sinner. However, I want no part of it, I cannot stand to know anyone who is LGBT. When in contact with them and despite becoming purely disgusted and very uncomfortable, I do treat them with respect just like any other person.

They see it as it's just like other sins, agreed, sin is still sin. But, this sin is praised and accepted throughout nations, practiced in communities, and accepted in churches. Would you praise a drunkard? Fight for rapist rights? Fly a flag supporting pedophiles? everyone sins, but no one should glorify it and it is against God's word.
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We have to show love to those in the LGBT community but we're not to tolerate their sins. Think about it. God is a holy God. He does not tolerate sin. That's how we should be. Just because a sin is accepted does not mean that we accept it. We're called to love them people but not the sin. It has nothing to do religious thinking or just being nice because at the end of the day we're all in need of Christ. So, they'll need our prayers and God to deliver from such acts.

However, if you cannot stand to know the (or be around them) then how will you ever be a light or witness to them? Jesus sat with sinners. He said its not those who are healthy who need a physician but those who are sick (Mark 2:17).
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

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#73
Mar 12, 2015
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#73
socalpoppy said:
I think enough Christians are condemning LGBT (aren't there more letters now?) I want to try love. I choose to love the people that come into my life regardless of their "sin profile".
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Hello socalpoppy,

First, we should not be condemning anyone. And two, the on-going issue is that those of the LGBTQ desire to get the world to recognize same-sex as being normal, i.e. nothing wrong with it. And they have the freedom to continue in that practice if they choose. However, the consequences are the same, which is condemning judgment. As long as they continue to willfully live that life style they remain separated from God and His wrath rests upon them.

By telling them that of the consequences of their actions, we are expressing love by warning them of what their actions will result in. Not telling them would be to not express love. At least if you tell them, then they will have heard the truth.
 
CS1

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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#74
socalpoppy said:
I think enough Christians are condemning LGBT (aren't there more letters now?) I want to try love. I choose to love the people that come into my life regardless of their "sin profile".
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that is great can I ask you how do you love them ?
 
DiscipleDave

DiscipleDave

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Sep 4, 2012
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#75
CS1 said:
Saying some is someone is attractive and using that feeling as normality is what many homosexual do to justify the sin. The context to my statement is not as you are suggesting. Are you gay? Are you part of the LGBTQ sexual preference?

The Law of attraction and saying I think some is attractive are in the context of the one who sees the person as such.

The long argument of those who are practicing homosexuality is why would I be attracted to this person if it were not normal.
When the attraction move to sexual sin , that had to be lust before they even acted on the sin to begin with. Lust starts with subtle sugestion which plays on the sinful nature. The Defintion of lust Biblically is one of the heart not just a strong desire to have sex.

Jesus said who so ever look with lust in his heart. looking at a person and thinking or say they are attractive is not what I am saying.
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All that you say here is True. i was referring to those who believe just because you are attracted to someone is sinful. That is not True. Attraction to someone, no matter who they are, is not what is sinful. LUST is what is sinful, not attraction. Attraction and Lust are two different things. The confusion lies in that some do not see the differences between Attraction and Lust. But nonetheless there is a difference.

Who you are attracted to, only reveals what sexuality you are classified under.

i am attracted to the opposite sex, i am a Heterosexual, i lust for nobody at all, i do not lust. So even though i am attracted to females and know that i am attracted to females does not mean i lust for females.

A man who is attracted to men, commits NO SIN whatsoever, because they are attracted to men. A woman who is attracted to women, commits NO SIN whatsoever, because they are attracted to women. When they LUST for the same sex, that is what is sinful, NOT merely being attracted to them. When they engage in any kind of sexual behavior one towards another, they likewise commit sin.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
 
DiscipleDave

DiscipleDave

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Sep 4, 2012
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#76
socalpoppy said:
I think enough Christians are condemning LGBT (aren't there more letters now?) I want to try love. I choose to love the people that come into my life regardless of their "sin profile".
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That is fine, as long as you are not disobeying the Word of God to do so. Is it not written to not even eat with the wicked, to avoid them, so that they may be ashamed, and possibly change. If then we eat with them to be social or what have you, then we condone in their sins with them. A Church that does not cast out a practicing adulterer, becomes a Church that harbors practicing Adulterers. A little bit of leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

Homosexuals are NOT ashamed today, because Christians Fail miserably to treat those who choose to live in abominations, as the Word of God plainly teaches us to deal with them. Those who accept their sin profile, also condone it.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
 
TamLynn

TamLynn

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Nov 27, 2014
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Jason1975 said:
LGBTQ people are part of the test of whether we can love people without respect of persons.

Love... and succor... and when possible share the gospel in ways that don't cause disputes. And maybe someday they will see that God's plan is all about family... and making families in accordance with His plan.

But if we don't care for them or they don't know we care... they will never care listen.
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This reminds me of the saying, "People won't care how much we know until they know how much we care".
And it's true.
 
S

selfdissolving

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#78
socalpoppy said:
I think enough Christians are condemning LGBT (aren't there more letters now?) I want to try love. I choose to love the people that come into my life regardless of their "sin profile".
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we love them by telling them to repent and believe the gospel

how can we say we love someone when we see them walking down the wide road that leads to destruction, and don't tell them how to get on to the narrow road?
 
TamLynn

TamLynn

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Nov 27, 2014
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#79
selfdissolving said:
we love them by telling them to repent and believe the gospel

how can we say we love someone when we see them walking down the wide road that leads to destruction, and don't tell them how to get on to the narrow road?
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I think we need to show them the gospel by the way we act and treat them first.
In my experience, people are more willing to hear what we have to say when we've shown them we care about them. :)
 
S

selfdissolving

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#80
#80
TamLynn said:
I think we need to show them the gospel by the way we act and treat them first.
In my experience, people are more willing to hear what we have to say when we've shown them we care about them. :)
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i wholeheartedly agree sister
at the same time, living it out isn't enough. we have to speak the words and have the hard conversations, even if it means they will get angry with us.
 
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