Is Messiah,(The Anointed One) the Father?

Yeah GOD dwells in us, but not GOD the father. He will not dwell with men until all rebellion is put under foot. That won't happen until the end of the millennium.

Na there is God the father who is in all and is all
No where in the bible does the term god the son or god the holy ghost are used. Just son of God and Holy Ghost.
The holy spirit is a portion of the fathers spirit. Jesus had the father dwelling in Him nowhere does it say god the son. You would think just once in the new testament it would if God wanted us to say it that way.. No trinity. Just one.

Close but not quite God is a spirit and His spirit is holy that is why we say holy spirit no where in bible does it say god the holy spirit like a separate person. Look at it as the Father being a body of water if he were to place all of that water in us we would die. but if he puts a portion of that water in us it is good. The Father puts a portion of himself in us because we surly would die it he dwelled in us fully.

That's what God said of himself. Only one.

"Why believe a teaching that isn’t biblical?
This, in brief, is the amazing story of how the doctrine of the Trinity came to be introduced—and how those who refused to accept it came to be branded as heretics or unbelievers.

But should we really base our view of God on a doctrine that isn’t spelled out in the Bible, that wasn’t formalized until three centuries after the time of Jesus Christ and the apostles, that was debated and argued for decades (not to mention for centuries since), that was imposed by religious councils presided over by novices or nonbelievers and that was “decided by the method of trial and error”?

Of course not. We should instead look to the Word of God—not to ideas of men—to see how our Creator reveals Himself! "
The Surprising Origins of the Trinity Doctrine

MP3 Audio(40.56 MB)
Few understand how the Trinity doctrine came to be accepted - several centuries after the Bible was completed! Yet its roots go back much farther in history.

Christ said God the Father lived in Him and they were ONE. And if you use my example how we can call the Holy Spirit in us Christ, then we have the Father in us because He is in Christ. Which basically means, The Father, Christ, and the Holy Spirit are not separate, but are One God in One Person.

Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

God calls things that have not happened yet, as though they already happened, for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future it is the same as if it happened in the beginning, for it will surely come to pass with no hindrance.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Luk 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation.

Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

All the works were finished from the foundation of the world although they were future events, for God calls things that have not happened yet, as though they already happened.

Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Joh 17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Joh 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

This is the man Christ Jesus speaking to the Father to give the saints a glorified body, and eternal life in heaven, the same as Him, and that they should behold His glory as He sits on the throne in heaven in a glorified body, which the Bible says it is the throne of God and the Lamb, God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus, which Jesus said to Philip, if you have seen Me then you have seen the Father.

Which the man Christ Jesus can already be considered with a glorified body, and eternal life, and sitting on the throne in heaven in the beginning even though it is a future event, because all the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

And Jesus said He wants the saints to have the same glory as He had in the beginning, so He cannot be speaking of sharing His glory as God in the beginning with the saints, for God does not give His glory to another, so He is speaking as the man Christ Jesus.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

The word of God, the Holy Bible, is God revealing Himself by words written in a book, and the Word of God is God revealing Himself personally by showing a visible manifestation of Himself, the only way a person can seem the invisible God.

John 1:1-3.

1.In the beginning was the plan of God to come in the future in flesh, and that plan was with God before He laid down the foundation of the world, and that plan was God manifest in the flesh.
2.That plan was with God before He started creation.
3.All things were made with the plan of God to come in the future in flesh, and without that plan God would of not created anything He created, for Jesus is the reason that creation is successful.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.

Jesus is the beginning of the creation, and the firstborn of every creature, even though He was not born until 4000 years later.

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Adam was created in the image of God, and is the figure of Him that was to come who is Jesus.

So the image of God is the image of Christ.

God had the plan to come in the future in flesh before He started creation, and created Adam in the image that He would show up in the future, and that is an innocent nature in flesh.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Let us make man in our image is God the Father, and the man Christ Jesus, and since Adam was made in the image that God would show up in the future, who is Jesus Christ, God and man, then the man Christ Jesus has to be part of that image that God created Adam.

For this is a prophetic statement to the coming Son of God, Jesus Christ, God manifest in the flesh, for God calls things that have not happened yet, as though they already happened.

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

There is but one God, the Father, and one visible manifestation of the Father to the saints, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

There is only one God, and Father of all.The Bible only attributes the Father as being God.

Jesus said He came in His Father's name, and the Son inherited the name from the Father, which the Father's name is Jesus, and Jesus is God and man, so it is the name of both the Father and Son.

In Isaiah it states the Son (the man Christ Jesus) shall be called the everlasting Father, for there is only one God, the Father, and Jesus is God manifest in the flesh, and in Isaiah the Father said He will reveal a new name to the Jews and speak to them, which Jesus told Philip, if you have seen Me then you have seen the Father, and the words that I speak are not My own, but the Father that dwells in Me, He does the works.

There is one God, who is a Holy Spirit. Father is a title for God, and the Son is the man Christ Jesus.

Not 3 persons in one God, but 3 relationships God has with His people designated by titles.

Father- parent of the saints.

Son- God's visible relationship to the saints.

Holy Spirit- God's invisible relationship to the saints.

But it is one God with no distinction of persons, which the Bible says Jesus created all things, came in flesh, and dwells in the saints.

Elohim = Creator and judge

"The Holy One, Blessed be he, said to those, you want to know my name? I am called according to my actions. When I judge the creatures I am Elohim, and when I have mercy with My world, I am named YHVH"

Excuse me, but you made the following statement. "Yeah GOD dwells in us, but not GOD the father. Not only does Jesus Christ indwell Christians but so does the Holy Spirit and God the Father. John 14L23, "Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him, AND MAKE OUR ABODE WITH HIM."

Then there is John 14:16 regarding the Holy Spirit. "And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper/Holy Spirit, that He may be with you forever." Btw, your statement, "Yea GOD dwells in us, but not GOD the Father" is contradictory. Sine God the Father is God by definition He indwells believers.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

I find it interesting you quoted John 10:30, "I and the Father are one." The verse literally reads, "I and the Father, We are one." What one ostrich? They are one in nature or essence, that is what Jesus is saying. If you read the context of the previous few verses Jesus is telling the Jews that the sheep are equally as safe in the Father's hand and in His hands.

Now, God the Father and God the Son are also one in purpose but in these verses that is not the point Jesus is making. When Jesus said, "He and the Father are one" look at the response of the Jews at John 10:31, "The Jews took up stones AGAIN to stone Him, why?

The answer is at vs33, "The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; (what was the blasphemy ostrich?) because YOu, being a man, MAKE YOURSELF OUT GOD." In other words, the Jews knew exactly what Jesus meant when He said His Father and Him are one.

And one more thing? Jesus was "NOT" created by God His Father. Jesus is the creator along with His Father. John 1:3, "All things came into being by Him/Jesus, and apart from Him (or without Him) nothing came into being that has come into being." It seems to me ostrich, you have alot Bible Study to do.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

More confused Modalistic thinking which the early Christians would reject.

You are 100% correct!!

Outside of knowing Peter commanded in Acts 2:38 to baptize in the Name of Christ (not the trinity), we see Paul did the same thing in Acts 19 :4-5

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Clearly the FIRST CHURCH that included Peter and Paul baptized in the Name of the Lord Jesus (not the trinity).

Ok rlm68, let's just say for the sake of argument your right. Does that mean that if a person is baptized your way only they are saved, and if a person is baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (the trinity way) there are not saved?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

I honestly believe as long as they accept Christ as their Lord and Savior, they are saved. I believe God knew there would be this doctrinal difference, and I believe God set it up that whether people believed in the oneness or trinity they still had to accept Christ first and foremost.

I go to many churches and fellowship with several who baptize in the trinity. And we both agree that we are first and foremost believers of Christ as our Lord and Savior. To me, they are equal brothers and sisters in Christ as those who are baptized in the Name of Christ.

Even oneness still believe in the Father - Word - Holy Spirit. They just view them as manifestations of the One God, or how my family and inner circle believe it to be.

I'm curious, why were you so "adamant" about the right or correct method of water baptism being the oneness pentecostal way? Secondly, the following is how a very stauch oneness I know defines God.

"Jesus is the Word, the God, the flesh, the Spirit, the man, the Father, the Son, the Alpha & Omega, the Lord God Almighty, He is all!" Do you agree with this statment? If not, why not?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

We believed in following the First Churches example. And we knew after Christ had ascended, the Disciples were the ones leading the way. And of course, scripture brings us Paul into the picture. Well, in order to follow the First Church example, we knew it began with the Book of Acts. This is where Peter was adamant concerning Acts 2:38. And then when you read Paul following suit in 19:4-5, it was rather clear and obvious how the First Church was operating.

And it helped to have Biblical scholars within my family since My Grandfather and Father were both ministers/evangelists. And I remember specifically debating over why Peter and Paul baptized in the Name of Jesus when Matthew 28:19 reads the trinity. Fortunately, it was well known that many scriptures were tampered with by the RCC. And we concluded, that what the Disciples and Paul were doing in the Book of Acts, probably meant the RCC messed with Matthew 28:19, because the Disciples and Paul would only do as they were taught by Christ to do.


I believe the key is several things:

1. Christ said the Father lived inside Him and was doing all of the works and saying what He wanted to (miracles and preaching etc)
2. Paul after knowing he baptized in Name of Jesus claimed in Colossians that Christ was the Visible Image to the Invisible God.
3. Paul is typically credited with Hebrews, and he claims Christ is the Express Image of God (basically, if the Invisible God looked into a mirror He see's Himself as Christ and vice versa).
4. When we accept Christ, we say Christ lives in us (even though it is the Holy Spirit). But it is biblical sound to claim Christ lives inside us (we are His Bride after all). Which if Christ lives within us as through the Holy Spirit, makes sense the Holy Spirit and Christ are the same.

So basically, if we took the Spirit of God that is in the WORD made flesh, that Spirit is the Father and the Holy Spirit since we know Christ was the complete God head. So within Christ, God is ALL in ALL!!

And Paul in Colossians credits Christ for being the First and Last - Alpha and Omega - CREATOR of ALL things etc...

The question I ask was very specific rlm68 based on the definition provided by a "staunch" oneness pentecostal I've known for years, is Jesus Christ the person of God the Father and the person of the Holy Spirit? Is He/Jesus all of them?

IN GOD THE SON,
james

Well actually Jesus was Gods first creation.
Col_1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
could you show me in the bible where the term god the son is used I see Son of God but nowhere is god the son used you would think if God wanted us to use that term it would be in the bible.

No, Jesus was not created.

Firstborn (prototokos) is not firstcreated (protoktistos).

You can use term "the Son of God", if you do not want to use term "God the Son". As long as you accept that Jesus is God, it does not matter what term you use.

The Father/Son/Holy spirit=Jesus and the correct baptism is the Holy spirit baptism which means believing in Jesus (The Father/Son/Holy spirit). There's no other baptism through which salvation is realized except this one. The apostles understood what the Father/son/Holy spirit meant, that's why they did what they did.

The name Yeshua (Jesus' real name) means Yahweh's Salvation. We obviously know who Yahweh is since the original Hebrews used that term for the All Powerful One God. So, it is rather interesting that the Messiah's NAME has Yahweh in it = Yahweh's Salvation, or Yeshua!!

Genesis 6:3 is also Specific of Yahweh and His personal Spirit (capital S = Holy Spirit) living in us like we know the Holy Spirit lives in us now

Original Hebrew translation Genesis 6:3
3 YAHWEH said, "My Spirit will not live in human beings forever, for they too are flesh; therefore their life span is to be 120 years."

Here are 2 examples of YAHWEH being involved with both the Messiah (WORD made flesh) and the Holy Spirit.
From these examples according to actual HEBREW, the Holy Spirit is the personal Spirit of YAHWEH (like we humans have a personal spirit), and the WORD made flesh is actually YAHWEH's Salvation. So it is clear, they are distinctly members of YAHWEH.

In Aramaic, Malala = Word, speech. Logos. The definition is Spoken WORD. Literally, YAHEWEH spoke and His WORD who was made flesh performed the action. Much like Christ said in John 14, the Father living inside Me is doing the things you see and saying the things you hear.

So, it is clear that in the Hebrew, the Holy Spirit means personal Spirit of YAHWEH, and the WORD means, Spoken WORD of YAHWEH.
example: YAHWEH said, "Let there be light," and His spoken WORD created light.

When you see it in this Hebrew context, you obviously can see God is YAHWEH, the Holy Spirit is YAHWEH (since it is His personal Spirit), and the WORD is YAHWEH (since the WORD is the spoken word from the lips/mouth of YAHWEH).

It then is rather conclusive that there is only one person of God (YAHWEH), which relates to our first Commandment (have no other gods before ME [singular meaning]).

So, if we are referring to the Holy Spirit or to the Messiah (WORD), we still are referring to YAHWEH!!