regenerated

No, our faith which is a fruit of the Spirit, does not save us, so, without first having the Spirit we have no spiritual faith, but Jesus's faith as stated in Gal 2:16, does justify ( save ) us.

yes, that is what I think the scriptures teach, Eph 2:3-5, Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others (this verse explains that we were just like the natural man explained in 1 Cor 2:14). But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead in sin (same as the man in 1 Cor 2:14), hath quickened (born again of the Spirit) us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) The natural man has nothing to do with his being born again.

I would like to call your attention to 1 Cor 2:16, But the natural man receiveth, not the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. according to this scripture, it does not seem reasonable that the natural man can become converted ( turn away from worldly things to spiritual things) without first being born of the Spirit. Can you explain this to me by using other scriptures?

You are religious. But your soteriology is faulty. God does not want any to perish but all to come to repentance. You seem to depend on Gods sovereignty but do not allow man his obligation to submit to Gods sovereignty. This leads to more superstition than faith.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

it's the other way around. we receive the Holy Spirit AFTER we accept Christ having died in our place and we acknowledge this and believe

it seems you might believe every unregenerate human being on the planet is endowed with the Spirit of God

there is no absolutely no scripture anywhere in the Bible that states what you believe

now you may be utterly convicted that what you say is correct, but what you believe is not the gospel and has no biblical precedent

the only way a person is regenerated, is by FAITH in the finished work of Christ on the cross

there is no other way

the Holy Spirit is not a mystery. in fact, He is also our Teacher among quite a few other things and He does not teach from Himself but He only teaches what He has heard to teach...ie from God

He is the Spirit of Truth and He does not go about confusing people

20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
Romans 3:20

Roger, I thought I had already explained 2 Pet 3:9, but it was to someone else. To keep this verse in context, we have to consider who Peter is talking to which is in 2 Pet 1:1 and is to them that have obtained "like precious faith". Peter is including himself in this warning by using the word us-ward. The warning is that if they do not repent of their sins they could perish ( lose their fellowship with God ) although God has washed away the sins of his elect, we still carry the burden of the flesh with us until the day we die, as Paul tells us in Rom 7:18-23, that we have a warfare within us of the flesh against the Spirit. When we were but natural men, void of the Spirit we did not have this warfare, but now that we are born of the Spirit and our minds sometimes lust after the things of the flesh, we are warned to repent to get back in fellowship with God. This does not mean that we lose our inheritance, but we are sometimes disobedient children of God.

You are religious. But your soteriology is faulty. God does not want any to perish but all to come to repentance. You seem to depend on Gods sovereignty but do not allow man his obligation to submit to Gods sovereignty. This leads to more superstition than faith.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Man's help takes away God's sovereignty.

I try to list the book, chapter and verse of the scriptures that I base my beliefs on, it would help me to discuss your beliefs if you would do the same. Where does it say that the natural man can accept Christ without first being born of the Spirit. The natural man has no ability to discern spiritual things.

Can you give me scripture telling me that our faith is the cause of us being regenerated?

but I did NOT say what you are saying I said

do you put on spin on everything and then try to have a discussion it it?

sure seems that is what you are doing here

the death of Christ on the cross and our acceptance of His finished work, according to God's plan, should be your reference

now I am wondering how the op views the term 'sanctified'

if it has been forgotten? (if it has been mentioned, I just did not read the entire thread. better to spend time reading truth then nonsense about how God gives his Holy Spirit to unregenerate people so they can understand the Bible...ie be a spiritual person

it's nonsense and cannot be proven from the Bible because it simply is not there

I expressed what is biblical and what I believe

why don't you believe the same?

the natural man is the unregenerate and unsaved man

when we believe, we receive the Holy Spirit as a seal of adoption that we belong to God our Father


In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory. Ephesians 1:13-14

I don't think it would help at all to put a twist on what is plainly written and then state you would like to discuss why other people believe what is plainly written

we receive the Spirit of God AFTER we accept God's plan of salvation through His Son, Christ Jesus

Yes the natural man is the unregenerate and unsaved man, and he is also the very same man that can not discern spiritual things, such as BELIEVING spiritual things. Therefore, God has to put his Spirit within man before he can discern spiritual things. like accepting spiritual things.

Far from it. It glorifies Gods sovereignty. What robs God of His glory is man thinking he has anything to be desired that God should select him from any other man. Agrippa opined to Paul so very sad words "almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian". Acts 26:28

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Maybe I am misunderstanding what the word "sovereign" means.

Does it not mean "accomplishing something all by ones self without the help of man"?

7seasrekeyed, here is what I have on your requested smileys. The three middle are gifs and the outer two are jpgs.



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