Not By Works

Not sure I agree with that.
My thoughts were along the lines of "God please deal with this stuff in my life, I'm struggling but can't overcome"

So in a sense "I have free will and it's not according to your will, replace my will with yours and wahtever is blocking this please remove it"

When we do not walk in the ways of Jesus there is a reason.
The reason is the cause of the effect.
The reason needs to be dealt with in order to be free from it

just willpower is never enough

OSAS AND FAS ARE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES THAT PROMOTES DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD AND REJECTS AND NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS AND COMMANDS. (mark 7:6-13, Isaiah 5:20-24)

SO DO NOT LET ANYONE DECEIVE YOU...FOR THE WRATH OF GOD COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT.(Ephesians 5:6)

OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST WHO IS THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL LIFE FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM (Hebrews 5:8-9) SAID:

Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD ; OBEY IT and REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

JESUS HAVE NOT FOUND THEIR DEEDS "COMPLETE" IN THE EYES OF GOD.

THEN HE TOLD THEM TO "OBEY" WHAT THEY RECEIVED AND HEARD AND TO REPENT.

JESUS WAS SPEAKING HERE TO ONE OF THE SEVEN CHURCHES AND WE KNOW THAT THE "CHURCH" IS THE BODY OF CHRIST WHOM HE WILL SAVE. (eph 5:23)

WHY WILL HE SAY THAT THEIR DEEDS ARE NOT COMPLETE IF WORKS ARE NOT NECESSARY FOR SALVATION AND THAT "FAITH ALONE" SAVES?

WHY WOULD JESUS COMMAND THEM TO OBEY AND REPENT IF IT
IS NO LONGER NECESSARY SINCE THEY ARE SAVED ETERNALLY? (OSAS)

IS JESUS IGNORANT OF THIS DOCTRINE OR IS IT CONTRARY TO HIS TEACHINGS AND COMMANDS AND THEREFORE ARE JUST FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE THAT NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS?

JESUS AND HIS FATHER REQUIRE SOME WORKS TO BE COMPLETED AND ASKED FOR OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE.

Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous REQUIREMENTS of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

Malachi 3:14 “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty?

GOD REQUIRES OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE IN OUR PART OTHERWISE HIS WRATH WILL COME ON THOSE WHO ARE "DISOBEDIENT".(eph 5:6 )

Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

DO NOT BE DECEIVED... GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED...WE REAP WHAT WE SOW...(Galatians 6:7-10)

NOW IF FAITH ALONE SAVES AND ONCE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS SAVED, DOES THIS PASSAGE BELOW CONTRADICT THESE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE OR DO YOU REJECT IT OR TWIST IT TO MEAN SOMETHING ELSE THAT WOULD FIT YOUR DOCTRINE?

Matthew 24:9-14 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time MANY WILL TURN AWAY FROM THE FAITH and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, THE LOVE OF MOST WILL GROW COLD, but HE WHO STANDS FIRM TO THE END WILL BE SAVED . And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

MANY WHO HAS FAITH WILL TURN AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH.

ARE THEY STILL SAVED AFTER TURNING AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH(ALONE)?

DO YOU MOCK GOD AND REJECT THESE VERSES BELOW?

Galatians 6:7-10 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature WILL REAP DESTRUCTION; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit WILL REAP ETERNAL LIFE. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD..

"LET GOD BE TRUE..." (Romans 3:3-4)

prove that this promotes disobedience

Its a good thing that God does not deal with everthing that is wrong in our lives at a snap of his fingers.

That is one reason we praise Him.

Are you saying you do not sin? Okay, lets put your SINLESSNESS to the test:

1 Peter 2:13-16 (NKJV)
13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men--
16 as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God.


Let's see How well you do that with the Speed Ordinances:








Any infraction, even accidentally, you are Sinning, even by 1 mph.

Love it

Although it is difficult at times to remain faithful to Christ when our hearts are sinful and unstable, the good news is that Christ will hold all his followers until the end. Christ is unwavering, Christ is decisive, Christ is powerful and Christ has the authority of the Father. ~Paul, a staff member from gotquestions.org

GOOD DAY BRO.

WHEN SOMEONE SAYS THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD'S LAWS AND COMMANDS IS NOT PART OF SALVATION, DOES IT NOT PROMOTE DISOBEDIENCE?

NOW IF OBEDIENCE IS NOT NECESSARY, WILL YOUR DISOBEDIENCE NOT SEPARATE YOU FROM GOD AND THEREFORE RECEIVE GOD'S WRATH INSTEAD OF SALVATION.

SO IS IT NECESSARY TO OBEY TO BE SAVED OR DO WE MOCK GOD AND OUR LORD JESUS WHO SAID THAT "IF YOU WANT TO ENTER LIFE, OBEY MY COMMANDS"( matthew 19:17) AND ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”(matthew 25:45-46)

AGAIN, "GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT"(ephesians 5:6)

WE SHOULD NOT GO BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN.

"OSAS AND FAS" ARE NOWHERE TO BE FOUND IN ANY BIBLE TRANSLATIONS WHICH MAKES IT A FALSE MANMADE DOCTRINE THAT GOES BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN.

Mark 7:6-13 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These
people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’ You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them: “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradgition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”

A WORTHY SERVANT

“FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD"

Matthew 10:37-39 “Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me;
anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who
DOES NOT take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose
it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

DO YOU LOVE JESUS?

John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we WALK in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK in love.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should WALK in them.

1 John 2:2-6 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

Ephesians 4:1 As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling
you have received.

Philippians 1:27-28 Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the
gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I
will know that you stand firm in one spirit, contending as one man for the faith of the gospel
without being frightened in any way by those who oppose you. This is a sign to them that they
will be destroyed, but that you will be saved—and that by God.

Colossians 1:10 And we pray this in order that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and
may please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge
of God,

Thessalonians 2:12 encouraging, comforting
you to live lives worthy of God,
who calls you into his kingdom and glory.

Thessalonians 1:5-6,8,11 All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result
you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. God is
just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you HE WILL PUNISH those who do
not know God and DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS. With this in mind,
we constantly pray for you, that our God may count you WORTHY OF HIS CALLING, and
that by HIS POWER he may fulfill every good purpose of yours and every act prompted
by your faith.

Titus 1:9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can
encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.

Revelation 3:4 Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will
walk with me, dressed in white, for THEY ARE WORTHY.

ARE YOU “WORTHY” OF SALVATION BY CLAIMING TO HAVE A FAITH “ALONE”? ONE
THAT IS VOID OF WORKS OR WHICH IS A “DEAD FAITH” ACCDG. TO JAMES.

I believe we have tons of free will, just not concerning all things.

we can only think one thought per moment
anything more, for prolong period of time, and we'd risk stress

free will is limited by sanity

I am in no wise being argumentative, but I don't see how a true child of God can loose their salvation. That opens a wide door for human effort and will which tows self righteousness, works, and religious rituals . Right?

I read this little like 3"X4" pamphlet titled "The Freedom of Selflessness", and I would recommend it. Only thing...I forget the author. 🙀

we should defer to reliable experts on subjects. It can be easy to allow ourselves to believe that we know all the answers and hard to accept the fact that we might ... So I understand that difficulties in navigating the truth.

DID JESUS STOP WORKING AFTER HIS DEATH ON THE CROSS (CHRIST’S FINISHED
WORK ON THE CROSS)?

WHAT WORK WAS FINISHED ON THE CROSS?

DID CHRIST FINISH HIS WORKS OF SALVATION BY DYING ON THE CROSS?

John 5:17 Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am
working.”
...the reason the son of man appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. (1 john 3:8)

John 14:12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He
will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Luke 24:44-49 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything
must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”
Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, “This is
what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance
and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You
are witnesses of these things. I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in
the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”

IS SALVATION “VOID OF WORKS” OR “ NOT BY WORKS (OF OURSELVES)?

ARE SERVANTS CONSIDERED WORKERS?

ARE PREACHERS,TEACHERS, EVANGELISTS, PASTORS, MINISTERS,
ADMINISTRATORS ETC. CONSIDERED SERVANTS AND WORKERS OF GOD?

WHAT IF THEY ONLY HAVE FAITH VOID OF WORKS, THEN LOOK DOWN ON THE OTHER
PARTS OF THE BODY IN HYPOCRISY AS IF THEY'RE THE ONLY LEGITIMATE PART OF
IT? WILL THAT FAITH SAVE THEM?( 1 corinthians chapter 12)

WE ARE GOD’S FELLOW WORKERS(1 cor 3:9)
SENT OUT TO HARVEST WHAT WE HAVE NOT WORKED FOR...THE CROP FOR
ETERNAL LIFE.

Luke 10:2 He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the
harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field.

John 4:34-38 “My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.
Do you not say, ‘Four months more and then the harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at
the fields! They are ripe for harvest. EVEN NOW the reaper draws his wages, EVEN NOW HE
HARVESTS THE CROP FOR ETERNAL LIFE, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad
TOGETHER. Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ I SENT YOU TO REAP WHAT
YOU HAVE NOT WORKED FOR. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the
benefits of their labor.”

ARE THERE WORKS NEEDED TO BE DONE FOR SALVATION?
WE ARE TO SERVE IN THE WORKS OF THE GOSPEL WHICH IS THE GOSPEL OF OUR
SALVATION.

1 Thessalonians 3:2,5 We sent Timothy, who is our brother and GOD’S FELLOW WORKER in
SPREADING THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST, to strengthen and encourage you in your faith, For
this reason, when I could stand it no longer, I sent to find out about your faith. I was afraid that in
some way the tempter might have tempted you and our efforts might have been USELESS.

Philippians 2:22 But you know that Timothy has proved himself, because as a son with his
father he has SERVED WITH ME in the WORK OF THE GOSPEL.

Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, THE
GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the
promised Holy Spirit,

John 7:18 HE WHO SPEAKS ON HIS OWN does so to gain honor for himself, but HE WHO
WORKS FOR THE HONOR OF THE ONE WHO SENT HIM IS A MAN OF TRUTH; there is
nothing false about him.

John 9:4-5 As long as it is day, “WE” MUST DO THE WORK OF HIM WHO SENT ME. Night is
coming, when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

1 Corinthians 15:58 Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give
yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in
vain.

BUT WE ARE NOT WORKING FOR OUR OWN SALVATION BUT FOR THE CHURCH WHICH
IS THE BODY OF CHRIST OF WHOM HE IS THE SAVIOR (eph 5:23),
WHERE HE PUTS THOSE THAT ARE BEING SAVED AND ARE MADE PARTS OF HIS BODY
FOR WORKS OF SERVICE.

Ephesians 4:11-13 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be
evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, TO PREPARE GOD’S PEOPLE FOR
WORKS OF SERVICE, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the
faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole
measure of the fullness of Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets,
third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help
others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.

Romans 12:4-8 Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do
not all have the same function, so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member
belongs to all the others. We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man’s gift
is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith. If it is serving, let him serve; if it is
teaching, let him teach; if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy,
let him do it cheerfully.

1 Corinthians 11:3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head
of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

THE TRUE MESSAGE OF THE CROSS IS SELFLESS LOVE.
GOD GAVE US HIS ONLY SON.

JESUS GAVE HIS LIFE FOR US.

WE OUGHT TO LAY DOWN OUR LIVES FOR OUR BROTHERS.

1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we
ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.

Philippians 2:4 Each of you should look not only to your OWN INTERESTS, but also to the
interests of OTHERS.

Philippians 2:21 For everyone looks out for HIS OWN INTERESTS, not those of Jesus Christ.

Colossians 3:12-17 Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe
yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord
forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect
unity. Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called
to peace. And be thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish
one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude
in your hearts to God. And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of
the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

Galatians 6:2,10 Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.
Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong
to the family of believers.

Matthew 16:24-28 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, HE MUST
DENY HIMSELF and take up his cross and follow me. For WHOEVER WANTS TO SAVE HIS
LIFE WILL LOSE IT, but whoever loses his life for me will find it. What good will it be for a man if
he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his
soul? For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will
reward each person according to what he has done. I tell you the truth, some who are standing
here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

2 Timothy 2:14-19 A Workman Approved by God Keep reminding them of these things. Warn
them before God against QUARRELING ABOUT WORDS; it is of no value, and ONLY RUINS
THOSE WHO LISTEN. Do your best to present yourself to God as one APPROVED, a WORKMAN who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
Avoid godless chatter, because THOSE WHO INDULGE IN IT WILL BECOME MORE AND
MORE UNGODLY. Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and
Philetus, who have WANDERED AWAY FROM THE TRUTH. They say that the resurrection has
already taken place, and THEY DESTROY THE FAITH OF SOME. Nevertheless, God’s solid
foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and,
“Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord MUST TURN AWAY FROM WICKEDNESS.”

This might seem off topic but it's really not. Will God ever say well done, my good and faithful servant to His body?

if people believe that "obedience is optional", prove that, that will guarantee disobedience

Are you kidding? If you figure, because your pastor told you that you are saved no matter what you do because Jesus is there to forgive you immediately, you don't think that the human thought pattern would be, I'll do it and then Jesus will clean it up for me and I will be alright.

I know, no body is going to say that outloud, but look at the wickedness in the church today. Many pastors are starting to stop preaching OSAS because they think it is the main reason for the problem.

The idea that we are no longer under the law, but are free under grace, is causing a lot of problems with our society today, even causing Christians to say we don't have to go to church any longer because it was the law of Moses that said you had to obey the Sabbath, but not so under the freedom of grace. Go do some research and find out I am right.

Ben can I say your last sentence we can all say the same.

You wish to discuss but your last sentence shows no desire to discuss but only to prove yourself right.

You contradict yourself.

"Many pastors are stopping preaching OSAS but then say that the teaching of such leads to Christians saying we no longer need to go to church..

What is a Sabbath keeper in the NC?

Are you a Sabbath keeper? If so what day?