Predestination or free will?

Yes that explains how the process works but it doesn't explain the first cause.

I will check your new thread in a few hours, Ive gotta go now

We are slaves to the Lord because; 1 Cor 6:20 "For we are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." Even after being bought with a price and becoming enslaved to the Lord; the Lord works in us to do his will and also to want to do it, Eph 2:13 "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." If we are foreordained to do the Lord's will, then the want to which is an emotional response is fake.

I agree with Danny so much on what he is saying, I do believe scripture clearly spells these things out. The thing I feel is important not to lose sight of is that God is so far beyond us, we can never fully understand the full scope of things until He shows us, but we live in time/space, and to us, from our perspectives, we do "choose", but I believe even that choice was a gift, He grants us repentance as well. Then takes a riffraff played out broken fool like me, transforms me overnight, changes my priorities, desires, even some habits, then as sovereign over all uses me for His purposes, and to me, from my perspective, I am 100% willing to and seeking to spread this truth, I "choose" to. It's beyond amazing, and I praise our God in Jesus name!

I am thankful for my state of mind when I was granted this repentance, because for me it kind of blows the "we choose" thing out of the water, at least for me personally. That said I know it's a personal thing and for many doesn't happen like this. At the time I was granted this repentance I was totally broken, I was done, It was after 2 full years of wanting to die, uncontrollable suicidal thoughts every 5 minutes for 2 years, I had no hope left at all. I had called myself Christian for around 5 years before, I thought I knew what that meant, so I wasn't "seeking further". I repeated the prayer, was dunked underwater, and declared save, yet I did not know Him. After the lose of all function in my right arm I cracked completely. When I hit my knees I knew that modern medicine couldn't help me, "science" couldn't help me, God if I ever truly believed in Him, if He was real and could help, He wasn't, and worst of all (really the best part, but I didn't see it then) was that I had no control at all and was powerless to do anything to "fix" my problem. When I hit my knees it wasn't "God help me", or "Jesus I need you now", it was just "I can't do this anymore". I hit my knees broken, balling, blubbering, got up went to sleep, and by His will, by His grace, Through His Son, for His glory I woke up new, through NO work of my own, so I have no reason to boast. Praise the name of Jesus!

The main point I wanted to make with this post was that when we think about and discuss this subject, we can't lose sight of the fact that we are in time/space and God works within all realms in ways we can't even begin to comprehend. Do I think God chose me? Yes, but if anyone thinks that gives me anything to "boast about" or brag about they're wrong, all it means to me is I am now reconciled to the God that created me and in my complete overwhelming gratitude, and by my new heart guide by His Spirit, I am now to go make disciples of all nations, and I want everyone to know the truth of our great God. Man I love our God and Savior Jesus!!!

Can the thing formed say to the One who made it, why has Thou made me this way? Yes He made some to honor and others to dishonor. We are not in a position to question anything God does, we are commanded to love Him with all our hearts, mind and strength. Maybe He will reveal His reason to us one day, until then we should only trust and obey Him.

read the OT reading of that passage,

Don't just take romans 9 out of context. No author can quote another author and use his words outside the context the origional author intended.

g...,
Yes Christ paid a price for our ability to become free of sin...not a bodily purchase as we know it by...... earthy slave.
A slave cannot walk away...we can walk away from Christ.......as free will is applied by us individually.

Our will then supersedes God's?
God knows what we need of him before we ask, pray, for it. The Kingdom of God was prepared for his elect before the foundation of the world. God's word refers to the elect. Those whom God calls to his son and whom his foreknowledge, foreplanning, knew by name before the foundation of the world.
We have free choice. We do not have a will that is stronger than that one who's word tells us he predestined all things for his glory and before he created anything at all.
How can there be any thing that omniscience does not know?

O...,

We must keep this in context...free will as to our accepting...right...from...wrong.
Not free will to get anything we want.

What prevents a person from getting within reason whatever they want? We see it all the time as exampled by the public figures who display that very capacity. And because they desire and have the money to achieve that desire.

For those in Christ Jesus said ask and it shall be given. Anything you want you have but to ask in my name and it shall be given you. Which would say that anything we want is afforded in God's will and power to accomplish as finished for us and our desire for it.
John 14:13-14 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
John 16:23-24 In that day you will no longer ask me anything. Very truly I tell you, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. 24Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete.
Matthew 21:22 If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."


The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps.

I would say predestination and free will.

That's the wrong question to ask. The real question would be: Does God command obedience to the Gospel, but do many disobey the Gospel?

Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, but now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith (Rom 16:25,26)

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? (Rom 10:16).

Every time we sin our will supersedes God's will.

Why?

No, that was the question I asked. If it isn't to your liking that's perfectly fine.

Scripture?

Sinners sin has more willpower than God?

Does God EVER want us to sin? Is it EVER God's will for a person to sin?

Hopefully your answer is "no, God never want's us to sin".

So every time we sin, we are superseding the will of God.

That God predestinate us we Read in Romans and Ephesians 1. On the other Side we are asked to react to the Word of God. Without free will we cant react.

We can't? If we're predestined before the creation of the world to be in him, is it our will we exercise? Or God's as intended for the individual that responds?

O.....,

Providing the request is part of G-d's plan. He cannot answer all prayers. Otherwise no one would ever die. ..."it is appointed unto man once to die".
You are listing symbolisms of G-d's intent.