Not By Works

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NoNameMcgee

Guest
#64,501
#64,501
benhur said:
Just remember decon and you are spewing that 90% of Christians are worshipping the wrong Jesus. That is interesting.
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eh


if it was that every man/woman alive was a liar

and only God was true

id still follow Him

no matter how much im hated for it
and falsely accused

no matter how much work there is to be done

im so grateful to Him for His gifts (unearned) that i wouldnt think twice about who to agree with
 
TruthTalk

TruthTalk

Senior Member
#64,502
Jul 17, 2017
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#64,502
benhur said:
Just remember decon and you are spewing that 90% of Christians are worshipping the wrong Jesus. That is interesting.
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And 100% of this thread, "Not By Works" believe your gospel is fake, think about that.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#64,503
#64,503
benhur said:
The real question is do you do the works that God has prepared for you to do? If you do not do what God has set up for you to do, will he save you?
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I am sorry man, But I am gonna be blunt,

The only people who would ask that question are the self righteous, religious person, Who like the pharisee in Jesus day are more foc used on works, than the dire straights he is in, Praising God he is not like the sinner (hyper gracer) but that he does the work God created him to do, and when he does sin, He repents of it, like as if that word is some magic incarnation that will automatically cause God to forgive that sin.

Meanwhile the tax collector. or the rest of us Sinners who got on our knees and asked for Gods mercy in faith he will save us, Know it is our faith that matters, not our works. Because we understand no matter how much work we do, it will always fall short, and never be enough. So we focus on faith. As as always, Those who have TRUE faith, it is not a question of if they work or not. The only people who question IF there will be work in people who have TRUE faith in God and have been born of him, are the religious, the self righteous, and the pharisee, Like you.

good luck trying to think you wil get to heaven by your own merit. but count me out man, I will not fall for that trap set by satan which has so many people blinded to truth.
 
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benhur

Senior Member
#64,504
Feb 8, 2018
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#64,504
garee said:
Yes made perfect by the good work of Christ who works in us to both will and do His good pleasure .Some grumble and complain and want that work to be in respect to their own self as if they worked for to gain their own salvation .its like the marriage union we don't work to become married we work it out, as Christ works with us

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings: Philippians 2
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What is the will and good pleasure of Jesus? It is found in the parable of the sheep and the goats. (Matthew 25:32-46)

If your faith is made perfect by the good work of Christ in you, then we should see the good works that is his will and good pleasure being performed by you, for the love of Christ, right?

And if we see no works being performed or little with a grumble, then we know that Jesus is not working in you and you are not engaged in his will and good pleasure, and you were not saved as you might think you are.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#64,505
#64,505
benhur said:
A good Christian can lose their soul if they lose focus on the cross, and lose focus on the life of Jesus and his saying that if you love me, then follow me and keep my commandments.
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oh boy, Here we have the cake.

So we focus on the law and commands, and we will be ok, But we focus on the cross, and we are in danger.

What world did you grow up in man?

1 Corinthians 2:2

For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

The cross is the most important aspect of our lives, remove the cross from our focus, and we will fall to all kinds of sin and self righteousness, Our focus will turn to self. and away from God.
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
#64,506
#64,506
benhur said:
...
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so far what ive seen from you

is men save men through works <- baptism

and this "salvation" is reliant on a constant proof made up of works

otherwise it runs out of salvation fuel...

how long would works have to be absent to prove this man saved through being dipped in water and helping people across the street is no longer saved...


does this man need to be dipped again?
or should he help someone else across the street?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#64,507
#64,507
benhur said:
A good Christian can lose their soul if they lose focus on the cross, and lose focus on the life of Jesus and his saying that if you love me, then follow me and keep my commandments.
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a good christian can lose their soul?
wow man, You keep digging yourself deeper
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#64,508
Feb 15, 2017
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#64,508
benhur said:
A good Christian can lose their soul if they lose focus on the cross, and lose focus on the life of Jesus and his saying that if you love me, then follow me and keep my commandments.
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So now we have a good Christian who can lose their soul.
Does that not sound contradictory?
If they lost their soul then they are not a good Christian.
If they lost their soul then one must ask "Were they a good Christian to begin with?

In fact I raise the question "Is there such a thing as a good Christian?
In fact what constitutes "GOOD" when it comes to the perfection of the creator himself?

Is there such a thing as a bad Christian?

Now what I find very interesting is that you say is that a Christian can lose their soul of they lose their focus on the cross, then you add to that "you will keep my commandments"

So the focus is not on the cross, but keeping commandments.

Does God love us unconditionally?

I would say yes.

If that's the case then we have a problem because Jesus is saying "If you love me then you will keep my commandments"

Then being the case then Gods love is conditional on meeting and meeting ALL his commands.

Fall foul of one you fall foul of them all.

As James points out in

James 2:8-12
8 Yes indeed, it is good when you obey the royal law as found in the Scriptures: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”9 But if you favor some people over others, you are committing a sin. You are guilty of breaking the law.
10 For the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as a person who has broken all of God’s laws. 11 For the same God who said, “You must not commit adultery,” also said, “You must not murder.” So if you murder someone but do not commit adultery, you have still broken the law.
12 So whatever you say or whatever you do, remember that you will be judged by the law that sets you free.

Jesus summed up the commandments in two, the sum up the 10 commandments.

So if we love God with all our heart and soul and mind do we keep the Sabbath, the 4th one?

If not then what?
After all Jesus kept the Sabbath.

I realise I have digressed a bit but the point I'm trying to make is that if we place burdens on people that says "You love me if you keep my commandments yet fall foul it's obvious you do not"

Peter fell foul, and Jesus asked him 3 times do you love me? Twice agape and third Phileo. Was Peter a good Christian or a bad one when he replied "I Phileo you 3 times?
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
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Feb 15, 2017
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#64,509
benhur said:
So you think there is a difference between OSAS and ES. You would have a fight with all those Christians that have OSAS teeshirts and are proud to have been saved.
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What's on your t-shirt Ben?

What do you think was on the t-shirt that Jesus wore when he walked on the earth.
God himself in the flesh
 
TruthTalk

TruthTalk

Senior Member
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Jul 17, 2017
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BillG said:
So now we have a good Christian who can lose their soul.
Does that not sound contradictory?
If they lost their soul then they are not a good Christian.
If they lost their soul then one must ask "Were they a good Christian to begin with?

In fact I raise the question "Is there such a thing as a good Christian?
In fact what constitutes "GOOD" when it comes to the perfection of the creator himself?

Is there such a thing as a bad Christian?

Now what I find very interesting is that you say is that a Christian can lose their soul of they lose their focus on the cross, then you add to that "you will keep my commandments"

So the focus is not on the cross, but keeping commandments.

Does God love us unconditionally?

I would say yes.

If that's the case then we have a problem because Jesus is saying "If you love me then you will keep my commandments"

Then being the case then Gods love is conditional on meeting and meeting ALL his commands.

Fall foul of one you fall foul of them all.

As James points out in

James 2:8-12
8 Yes indeed, it is good when you obey the royal law as found in the Scriptures: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”9 But if you favor some people over others, you are committing a sin. You are guilty of breaking the law.
10 For the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as a person who has broken all of God’s laws. 11 For the same God who said, “You must not commit adultery,” also said, “You must not murder.” So if you murder someone but do not commit adultery, you have still broken the law.
12 So whatever you say or whatever you do, remember that you will be judged by the law that sets you free.

Jesus summed up the commandments in two, the sum up the 10 commandments.

So if we love God with all our heart and soul and mind do we keep the Sabbath, the 4th one?

If not then what?
After all Jesus kept the Sabbath.

I realise I have digressed a bit but the point I'm trying to make is that if we place burdens on people that says "You love me if you keep my commandments yet fall foul it's obvious you do not"

Peter fell foul, and Jesus asked him 3 times do you love me? Twice agape and third Phileo. Was Peter a good Christian or a bad one when he replied "I Phileo you 3 times?
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Quote:
"Does God love us unconditionally?

I would say yes."

Thank you BillG, benher's gospel is not "Good News", and it is filled with the same ideas as the pharisees, it's all about keeping rules, "do this don't do that", His gospel has so many twists and turns it will make you sea sick.

God loves you and I with the same, "agape love", "unconditional love", that He loves His son with. And God will never leave us abandoned, as if we were "orphan's"

A counterfeit gospel as is benhers, equals a counterfeit Christ. He will lead you down a dark and hopeless path.

Hebrews4:15

"For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet he did not sin."​
 
TruthTalk

TruthTalk

Senior Member
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Jul 17, 2017
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Sisterhope4mercy said:
the condition is the precious shed Blood of Jesus. Sounds like a condition to me anyways. Your choice and mine.

I chose Jesus and to Obey Jesus amen
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We were dead in our trespasses and sins, a dead person cannot choose anything, God first chose us not the the other way around amen! Basic Sunday School lesson.

John15:16
"You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit"
 
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benhur

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Feb 8, 2018
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dcontroversal said:
Yep.......and Jesus give eternal/everlasting life.....not temporary life that comes and goes based upon what we do or do not do.......He also keeps his promises to...

a. NEVER leave us or FORSAKE US
b. FINISH and COMPLETE the good work of faith he began IN US
c. HOLD us in his HAND
d. ACKNOWLEDGE us before the FATHER based upon OUR ACKNOWLEDGEMENT of HIM IN FAITH
e. PUNISH us when we stray, BUT NEVER CAST US OFF
f. LOVE US before we LOVED HIM
g. JUSTIFY us BY IMPUTED FAITH
h. TAKE ALL OF OUR SIN and nail it to the CROSS
I. SEE the BLOOD AND PASS OVER us IN JUDGEMENT
J. SEAL US BY THE HOLY SPIRIT of promise UNTO the day of REDEMPTION
k. SAVE US AND KEEP US BY HIS POWER through FAITH that HE starts and FINISHES
l. ETC

YOU are right....ALL who call or imply CHRIST is a LIAR by denying the above truths to say one can lose salvation like one loses a quarter in the parking lot of some store WILL pay the price....
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You need to also read the parable of the Vine (John 5:1-2) Jesus says if you are a branch IN HIM, but you do not produce fruit (which requires good works) God, the Father of Jesus will take you away, He is the husbandman.

You also need to read the parable of the merciful king. (Matthew 18:23-35) The King (Jesus) gave a gift to a man, who went out and threw a man into prison because he owed him a small amount of money. The King brought him back into his court and took his gift back and then threw him into prison until he paid every penny.

You also need to read the parable of the sheep and the goats (Matthew 25:32-46) to find out what good works Jesus is looking for from those that he saved (his sheep).

From those that are given much (saved) Jesus expects much (faith accompanied by good works created by Jesus for his good pleasure).
 
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benhur

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Feb 8, 2018
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eternally-gratefull said:
Then this verse applies to you,

Galatians 3:3
Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

God did the work of justification by sending his son, and his son did the work by enduring the cross, the spirit did the work of convincing you of your dire straight, and leading you to repentance, and bringing you to true saving faith in God, and then promised his work is not done, that he who started that good work will (not might) complete it until the day of christ, the promise that he has perfected forever the ones he is currently sanctifying, and they promise they have eternal life and will (again not might) be resurrected by him.

But no, you deny it, you take the work of God (the spirit) and think you can do it yourself (the flesh) claiming that if you fail to endure, you fail to complete, you fail to stay alive, all god promised will be null and void, thus paul calls you a fool
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If you do not continue in the spirit, and you deny the HS and do not what he wants you to, you will not be saved.
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
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Feb 15, 2017
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#64,516
benhur said:
You need to also read the parable of the Vine (John 5:1-2) Jesus says if you are a branch IN HIM, but you do not produce fruit (which requires good works) God, the Father of Jesus will take you away, He is the husbandman.

You also need to read the parable of the merciful king. (Matthew 18:23-35) The King (Jesus) gave a gift to a man, who went out and threw a man into prison because he owed him a small amount of money. The King brought him back into his court and took his gift back and then threw him into prison until he paid every penny.

You also need to read the parable of the sheep and the goats (Matthew 25:32-46) to find out what good works Jesus is looking for from those that he saved (his sheep).

From those that are given much (saved) Jesus expects much (faith accompanied by good works created by Jesus for his good pleasure).
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We do not do good works to be in the vine, we do good works because we are in the vine.

Ps what about the sheep that go astray?
Jesus goes after it but I can't recall him seeking out the goats.

Why is that?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#64,517
#64,517
benhur said:
If you do not continue in the spirit, and you deny the HS and do not what he wants you to, you will not be saved.
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God demands you be perfect,

Good luck trying to fulfill that demand.
 
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benhur

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Feb 8, 2018
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eternally-gratefull said:
Yes, NOT BY GOOD WORKS.

notice the huge difference.
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It is a big difference, but unto works, still means your going to be busy doing the same kinds of good works the Lord did. If you think that will burden you, then some will not get saved.
 
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