Anne Frank In Hell

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Budman

Budman

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#1
Mar 9, 2014
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#1
I was watching a documentary on the Holocaust, and they had a small segment on Anne Frank. I'm sure most of you know who she was and probably read her diary in school, as I did. I'm also sure most of you know her fate - death in a Concentration Camp about a month and a half before the end of the war.

It troubles me greatly knowing that she, and the 6 million Jewish victims of Hitler, are now in Hades.

I know doctrine. I know that we are all sinners deserving hell. I know the holiness of God demands punishment for the lost. But I can't help thinking about that poor girl, suffering in darkness, a victim of a satanically possessed mass murderer.

She harmed no one. Loved greatly. Just a child. Yet her eternal fate is sealed.

Maybe I'm just in a melancholy mood. Maybe I don't understand as much as I think I do.

Thoughts?
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#2
Aug 17, 2015
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#2
1. Nothing you watch in TV is accurate description of what happened. She was not as perfect and ideal as the documentary makes her to look like.

2. Hádés is not the punishment hell, gehenna is. Hádés is just a place for all people after death, underworld. The poor guy who died and was in the bossom of Abraham was in hádés as well as the rich guy who was in flames.

3. I understand your feeling. I think there is a good case in the idea that sinners will die, they will not be tormented for ever. Some ancient Christians even thought that everything will be universally saved, in the end, I am not sure if there is a good evidence for that.
 
S

Stranger36147

Guest
#3
#3
She could have trusted in Jesus for all we know. Among the many Jewish people that unfortunately lost their lives, I'm sure there were some that believed in Christ.

With all due respect, I don't think it's wise to say for sure whether one or more people are in Hell or not. That's God's call. Only the Lord truly knows a person inside and out.
 
Waggles

Waggles

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#4
Sep 21, 2017
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#4
She harmed no one. Loved greatly. Just a child. Yet her eternal fate is sealed.​
Click to expand...
On what basis do you determine the fate or salvation of other people?
Why do you believe that only Christians "survive" judgement?
And that would of course be only some Christians.

Why would Anne Frank be condemned?
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#5
Aug 17, 2015
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#5
Waggles said:
On what basis do you determine the fate or salvation of other people?
Why do you believe that only Christians "survive" judgement?
And that would of course be only some Christians.

Why would Anne Frank be condemned?
Click to expand...
Why to spread gospel to unbelievers, then? We can just say "live a good life and you will be fine".

On the other hand, God is just and I am quite sure that "good people" will have smaller punishment compared to "bad ones" or to satan.
 
Waggles

Waggles

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#6
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#6
Rather than personal opinion, let us have a look at what the
scriptures tell us ...

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth
and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened:
and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of
those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Revelation 20:
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#7
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
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#7
Waggles said:
Rather than personal opinion, let us have a look at what the
scriptures tell us ...

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth
and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened:
and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of
those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Revelation 20:
Click to expand...
Its a bad thing for us, to be judged according to our works.

Only when Christ´s righteousness is imputed to us, our works will be good enough to satisfy God.

"All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law."
R 2:12
 
Waggles

Waggles

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#8
Sep 21, 2017
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#8
trofimus said:
Its a bad thing for us, to be judged according to our works.
Only when Christ´s righteousness is imputed to us, our works will be good enough to satisfy God.

"All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law."
R 2:12
Click to expand...
Judgment also applies to "Christians" as well as all other peoples ...

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one
may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done,
whether it be good or bad.
2Corinthians2:
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#9
Aug 17, 2015
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#9
Waggles said:
Judgment also applies to "Christians" as well as all other peoples ...

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one
may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done,
whether it be good or bad.
2Corinthians2:
Click to expand...
Thats true. But faith in Christ is what makes the difference between life and death sentence...

"He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life."
1J 5:12
 
BenFTW

BenFTW

Senior Member
#10
Oct 7, 2012
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#10
trofimus said:
Its a bad thing for us, to be judged according to our works.

Only when Christ´s righteousness is imputed to us, our works will be good enough to satisfy God.

"All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law."
R 2:12
Click to expand...
I think you miss the point. The punishment for each person, whether one is more evil than the other, will be determined upon their works. So there is no sense of injustice, as if God will judge each person exactly the same, without considering their deeds.
 
trofimus

trofimus

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#11
Aug 17, 2015
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#11
BenFTW said:
I think you miss the point. The punishment for each person, whether one is more evil than the other, will be determined upon their works. So there is no sense of injustice, as if God will judge each person exactly the same, without considering their deeds.
Click to expand...
But nobody will be saved based on their good works. Ok, maybe except Job, Daniel would make it, but they were also believers in Christ, so they will not need it.

Thats what I meant by "its a bad thing to be judged by our works".
 
Waggles

Waggles

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#12
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#12
trofimus said:
"He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life."
1J 5:12
Click to expand...
Now there's the problem about being so certain as to who is saved and who is not

Not all "Christians" have the Son ...

and grace is not limited only to "Christians"
it is Jesus' prerogative as to whom he shall have mercy upon
 
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trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#13
Aug 17, 2015
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#13
Waggles said:
Now there's the problem about being so certain as to who is saved and who is not

Not all "Christians" have the Son ...

and grace is not limited only to "Christians"
it is Jesus' prerogative as to whom he shall have mercy upon
Click to expand...
True Christians will be saved through Christ.

There is no other name under heaven revealed to people in which they could be saved.

Also, faith in Christ is the way of how to be saved by Him.

So, I am not sure what you are trying to say.
 
OneFaith

OneFaith

Senior Member
#14
Sep 5, 2016
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#14
Anne Frank died at 15. At 15 you are still growing taller, and still under the authority of your parents. Therefore she was still considered a child, and not at the age of accountability. When we think of those who do not know the bible, and whose consciences are a law unto themselves, we tend to think of someone in a remote jungle who can't even read anyways. But such people, even at adult age, exist even in false churches today.

In order to be held accountable you have to know to read the bible but refuse to, or recognize a truth and not accept it. "He who knows the good he aught to do and chooses not to do it sins." You are not held accountable for sins you do not know are sins unless you choose to not know by refusing to read the bible to find out what they are. Most people grow up being taught falsehood, and need to come to the age of accountability to recognise truth for themselves, and then adapt to it. You have to know and refuse what's right in order to be held accountable. Only God knows how much Anne Frank knew. We will be judged by the bible and by our knowledge and abilities.
 
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Waggles

Waggles

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#15
Sep 21, 2017
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#15
trofimus said:
True Christians will be saved through Christ.
So, I am not sure what you are trying to say.
Click to expand...
True Christians look forward to the first resurrection: being transformed and
rising up to meet Jesus in the air > the marriage feast > not subject to the
second death (Revelation 20).

All other peoples whether Christian or otherwise are subject to judgement
before the throne of God according to their works and all those whose names are
not written in the Book of Life are cast into the lake of fire.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

1: implied that other people apart from "true" Christians have their names written
in the Book of Life and were not therefore cast into the second death.
(judged according to their works)

2: God is merciful and full of grace and is well aware of the awful ruin and
spiritual evil that Satan and the fallen angels have done to humankind
throughout history.
God is able to bring forth righteous judgement to every single person who has
ever lived since the creation of human beings (Genesis 1).

So let's get back to the OP - why would anyone judge Anne Frank as
automatically being condemned?
 
BenFTW

BenFTW

Senior Member
#16
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
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#16
Budman said:
I was watching a documentary on the Holocaust, and they had a small segment on Anne Frank. I'm sure most of you know who she was and probably read her diary in school, as I did. I'm also sure most of you know her fate - death in a Concentration Camp about a month and a half before the end of the war.

It troubles me greatly knowing that she, and the 6 million Jewish victims of Hitler, are now in Hades.

I know doctrine. I know that we are all sinners deserving hell. I know the holiness of God demands punishment for the lost. But I can't help thinking about that poor girl, suffering in darkness, a victim of a satanically possessed mass murderer.

She harmed no one. Loved greatly. Just a child. Yet her eternal fate is sealed.

Maybe I'm just in a melancholy mood. Maybe I don't understand as much as I think I do.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
From the Diary of Anne Frank...

To give me a new project as well, Father asked Mr. Kleiman for a children’s Bible so I could finally learn something about the New Testament. (11/3/1943.2)

Who knows what reading the NT did for her, privately. She believed in God, she spoke of Him, thanking Him for the ability to write so that she could express her inner feelings.

We think upon the horrors in this world, and the victims of it, and our hearts pang. Does not the Lord's heart also? His desire is not death, or did we forget how Jesus wept over Lazarus? What can the Lord do, but that which He has? Jesus upon the cross, paying our penalty, and then resurrecting from the dead. The Gospel.

I find that we must be careful lest we judge God, not knowing all things as He does. It is He who knows the hearts. Will we bring a charge against the Lord? I hope not... and yet do I understand that your heart pangs. As does mine, to consider the atrocities upon His creation. Those He loves.

Consider this for but a moment. You grieve for those that died not knowing Christ, how much more God who is perfect love? They are His creation, He died for them, He loves them, and yet... if they be in Hell, what more could He have done? He loves with a love imperishable, consider then His grievance.
 
G

graceNpeace

Senior Member
#17
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
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63
#17
Waggles said:
Rather than personal opinion, let us have a look at what the
scriptures tell us ...

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth
and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened:
and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of
those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Revelation 20:
Click to expand...
And that judgement will be UNIVERSALLY negative!
No amount of works overcomes the sin we have all committed...
The only thing that keeps one out of hell is the blood of Jesus Christ!
And one has to actually accept what Christ did on the cross, by grace through faith otherwise one will indeed be judged according to one's works with the inevitable condemnation...

But, I guess the works salvationist folks really believe that they can beat that judgement...
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#18
Apr 22, 2013
13,575
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#18
graceNpeace said:
And that judgement will be UNIVERSALLY negative!
No amount of works overcomes the sin we have all committed...
The only thing that keeps one out of hell is the blood of Jesus Christ!
And one has to actually accept what Christ did on the cross, by grace through faith otherwise one will indeed be judged according to one's works with the inevitable condemnation...

But, I guess the works salvationist folks really believe that they can beat that judgement...
Click to expand...
Yes. There needs to be a contrast here between the LIVING and the DEAD. These people in Rev. 20:12 are referred to as the DEAD.

[h=1]2 Timothy 4:1 New King James Version (NKJV)[/h][h=3]Preach the Word[/h][FONT=&quot]4 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at[a] His appearing and His kingdom:
[/FONT]
[h=1]1 Peter 4:5 New King James Version (NKJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]5 They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.[/FONT]
 
jsr1221

jsr1221

Senior Member
#19
Jul 7, 2013
4,265
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#19
What's the point in making a post about something none of us know? If you're curious on Anne Frank's afterlife status, you'll have the chance to ask God when you meet Him one day.
 
S

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#20
Dec 9, 2011
14,111
1,798
113
#20
trofimus said:
Its a bad thing for us, to be judged according to our works.

Only when Christ´s righteousness is imputed to us, our works will be good enough to satisfy God.

"All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law."
R 2:12
Click to expand...
I agree with you If you mean works as In fleshly things,but keep In mind that we are GOD’s workmanship created In CHRIST unto good works and we will receive rewards for our good works at the judgement seat of CHRIST.

2 Corinthians 5:8-11
King James Version(KJV)


8.)We are confident, [I say], and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

9.)Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

10.)For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad.

11.)Knowing therefore the terror of the LORD, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
 
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