Here is Joseph Prince......

Okay, that tells me everything I need to know about you.

We're discussing one thing, and I show what it really means...... then you immediately jump to something totally unrelated to try to disprove.... God only knows what. What's THAT all about? Just clutching at any straw within reach to keep arguing?

One of the things I look for in a preacher or teacher after sound doctrine is the joy of the Lord. Do the people who follow Christ have a joyful attitude as they walk in His will? Or are they sour pusses and full of condemnation of others and themselves? To they understand the gift of no condemnation that Jesus gives us? Or do they believe condemnation brings repentance? The following is an article that gives insight about what JP has written and not what people say he believes. Since this is a thread about the guy, it's best to let his own words either condemn or not condemn him. Taking in context the following.

Christians celebrate Christmas to commemorate the birth of our Lord Jesus, knowing that He came to give us eternal life. But how many realize that Jesus also came to give us the gift of no condemnation? Once we receive this gift and see that God no longer condemns us, then we can truly have peace with Him while still on earth!
John 3:16—“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”—is probably the most well-known verse in the Bible. If there is a memory verse competition in the church, and someone stands up and quotes John 3:16, I think half the congregation will say, “There goes my memory verse!”

[h=2]The Reason For Christmas[/h]However, not many people know the verse that comes after that. And it is this verse that gives us the reason for Christmas:
John 3:17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
Unfortunately, Christianity has been misrepresented and used in many circles—be it by Hollywood or in churches—to condemn people. Yet, the truth is that God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save it.
That is why the angel Gabriel said to Mary, “…you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus.” (Luke 1:31) Do you know that His name means “Savior” in Hebrew? His name could have been “Judge” or “Lawgiver”. But of all the names He could have used, He chose the name “Savior” because the purpose for His coming was to save us and not to condemn us.

[h=2]The Gift Of No Condemnation[/h]Romans 8:1There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
Today, God wants you to receive the gift of no condemnation. This gift will cause you to walk tall and be a true success. This gift will also save you from a life of stress, fear, restlessness, and even sickness and disease. That is because everything that happens in your soul—the emotional and mental realms—will affect your physical body if it is not properly dealt with.
Doctors are beginning to realize that more people are suffering from psychosomatic illnesses nowadays. They are realizing that the majority of patients would not be suffering from their physical conditions if they had known how to handle their emotional afflictions such as fear, stress and worry.
It is interesting to know that the word “condemnation” in the original Greek means “condemning sentence”. Stress is a condemning sentence. Sickness and disease is a condemning sentence. But there is therefore now no condemning sentence for those who are in Christ Jesus!

[h=2]What It Means To Be In Christ Jesus[/h]Now, according to Romans 8:1, who are those who qualify for this gift of no condemnation? They are the ones who are in Christ Jesus. And today, you are in Christ Jesus, not Jesus Christ.
You might ask, “Pastor Prince, is there a difference between being in Christ Jesus and being in Jesus Christ?”Yes, there is! “Jesus” is His human name, but “Christ” is His official title. Before He died and rose again, He was Jesus Christ. But after His resurrection, He became Christ Jesus. “Christ” is now placed in front of “Jesus” because it reflects His resurrected nature. And God wants us to know that we are now alive in the risen Christ, the all-glorified One who said, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth,” (Matthew 28:18) after He rose from the dead!
When you believe in Christ and put your faith in Him, God the Father sees you in Christ Jesus. He sees you in the risen Christ who is seated at His right hand. All that Jesus is, you are. And all that He has, you have. The Bible tells us that “as He is, so are we in this world”. (1 John 4:17) Can Christ who is seated at the Father’s right hand ever be condemned? No. Well, neither can you, because you are in Him. [h=2]Not Right Doing But Right Being[/h]However, Romans 8:1 has been so misunderstood by many Christians. There are believers who think that there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ…as long as they do what is right.
Now, I am for what is right. I am not for what is wrong. But that is not the criterion by which we are justified. We are justified by the obedience of Christ.
I know that some people will say, “But Pastor Prince, the rest of Romans 8:1 goes on to say that the gift of no condemnation is only for those who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. That is the criterion to qualify for the gift of no condemnation!”“…who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit” is not there in the original manuscript. It was added by Bible interpreters. And you can verify this truth in any good Bible commentary. In fact, the New American Standard Bible is one version of the Bible that leaves this verse in its original form.Therefore, the only reason that you are not condemned is that you are in Christ Jesus. That is the only requirement.So what does it mean: “There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus”? The answer is found in the word “therefore”. Wherever you find the word “therefore”, find out what it is there for. It is there because of what the apostle Paul wrote in the previous chapter. In Romans 7, Paul wrote about his own struggles and how he was condemned by the law that he knew so well as a Pharisee. He said, “For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.” (Romans 7:19)So Romans 8:1 only means something when you have done wrong, because that is when the gift of no condemnation matters to you. All of us qualify for this gift because we have failed to keep all the Ten Commandments perfectly. And God says, “In Christ, I don’t condemn you. Now, don’t condemn yourself. Go and sin no more.” God is for you not living a lifestyle of sin. But the power to do this comes when you receive the gift of no condemnation.Some people may say, “Pastor Prince, some people might take this gift and start using it to live a licentious lifestyle!”My friend, people who live a licentious lifestyle do not believe this truth. They have not truly received this gift. Many of them are already self-condemned and are doomed to repeat their sin. Do you know that God does not say that there is no condemnation based on His whim and fancy? He does not say, “Never mind, boys will be boys,” and then sweeps everything under the carpet. If He did that, He would be unrighteous. No, He has to condemn our sins. That is why He sent Jesus to suffer the condemnation for us.Today, you are not condemned because all the sins of your entire life have already been condemned in the body of another at the cross on Calvary. Jesus bore it all! And all lawyers know the law of double jeopardy: The same crime cannot be punished twice. Your sins cannot be condemned in the body of your substitute, and then in your own life! [h=2]He Has Released You From The Law Of Sin And Death[/h]Romans 8:2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.Everything and everyone on earth is subject to the law of gravity. However, this law is broken every day at airports all over the world because there is a law that is higher than the law of gravity. Whenever an aeroplane takes off, the law of thrust and lift overcomes the law of gravity.Likewise, there is only one law that is higher than the law of sin and death. There is only one law that overcomes the law of sin and death that brings sickness and disease into your life. The only way to be set free from the law of sin and death is when the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is released into your life.So how is this law released? Notice that Romans 8:2 starts with the word “for”. This means that it is connected with the previous verse, Romans 8:1. So the law of the Spirit of life is released when you receive the gift of no condemnation into your life! Do you know that people who call themselves “freethinkers” are not free at all? They are bound by thoughts of fear, inferiority, lust and pride. They are bound by thoughts of sin and cannot stop thinking such thoughts. They also grow old very fast, and have sicknesses and diseases. They are under the law of sin and death because they are without Christ. They are not in Christ.It is only when you are in Christ that you are free to think, because Christ came to set you free. And if the Son sets you free, you shall be free indeed! (John 8:36) There is a freedom that comes when you know that you are not condemned because you are in Christ. And when you receive the gift of no condemnation, you release the power to overcome the law of sin and death in your life! [h=2]The Power To Go And Sin No More[/h]In John 8:1–6, Jesus was at the temple when the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman who had been caught in the very act of adultery. They tried to test Jesus by asking Him whether she should be stoned according to the law of Moses.Now, they were trying to trap Jesus because if Jesus said, “Stone her,” they would say to the people, “So much for His teachings about God’s love and being sent to the world not to condemn, but to save.” But if He said, “Don’t stone her,” then they would accuse Him of breaking the law.So what did Jesus do? He wrote on the ground with His finger. He did so not because He could not answer. He did this to demonstrate that He was the one who wrote the Ten Commandments on two tablets of stone with His finger during Moses’ time. (Exodus 31:18)Then, Jesus said, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” (John 8:7) And one by one, those who heard this walked away, being convicted by their conscience. Now, let’s look at what Jesus did next:John 8:10–11When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?” She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.” Many people like to quote the last phrase, “go and sin no more.” But it does not release the power to go and sin no more. That is because the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is only released to set you free from the law of sin and death when you first receive the gift of no condemnation. That is why Jesus gave the woman the gift of no condemnation before He told her to “go and sin no more”!I love to say it like this: The Pharisees would condemn her, but they could not. Jesus could condemn her, but He would not. Hallelujah!So those people who think that the preaching of no condemnation will cause people to sin more don’t fully understand what Jesus said in John 8:11. The only way for people to go and sin no more—the only way for people to be empowered in their life, to walk in peace, joy and faith, and to live the abundant life that Jesus came to give us—is to understand that there is now no condemnation in Christ. [h=2]Two Things Will Happen To You[/h]When you realize and understand that there is therefore now no condemnation in Christ, two things will happen to you.The first thing that will happen when you understand that God does not condemn you in Christ is that you will stop condemning yourself. Do you know that many people who are always angry are like that because of guilt? For example, when a man feels guilty for not being able to provide for his family, he gets angry and takes it out on his wife.It is like having a small pebble in your shoe. You cannot walk properly because it is bothering you. So it is with guilt. And you must resolve it by going to God and thanking Him that there is therefore now no condemnation because your sins have already been punished in the body of His Son.As long as you think that God condemns you, you will condemn yourself. And your body and mind are so intelligent that, unconsciously, they believe that you want to punish yourself. So they will say, “Okay, it’s time to pass a condemning sentence on this body!” And sickness is produced. Disease is produced. But long before symptoms manifest in your body, you were already a walking civil war.The second thing that will happen when you understand that God does not condemn you in Christ is that you will stop condemning others. You will not condemn those who are also in Christ for their failures. You will even look at the world with eyes of no condemnation because you will see them the way Jesus sees them—as lost sheep who are without a shepherd. And He said, “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.” (John 10:11) Praise the Lord! [h=2]Walk In Peace And Be Healthy[/h]Today, the only place that is totally safe and secure is in Christ. Once you receive the gift of no condemnation into your heart, meditate on it and have a no-condemnation mentality. And you will begin to walk in peace—the same peace that Jesus always walked in.Jesus was always cool. He was never in a hurry. He could even sleep in a boat that was in the midst of a storm. In the incident in Mark 4:35–39, it was not the storm that woke Him up, but the cry of His disciples. And when He awoke, He said to the wind and sea, “Peace, be still!” It takes someone who is inwardly at peace to change a hostile environment into a peaceful one. He also calmed the storm in the hearts of His disciples, which is where it all began. You can have that same peace because you are in Christ!As you walk in that peace, you will soon discover that you are getting healthier, and that some of the chronic problems you used to experience in your body are gone. You will wake up one day and realize that the pain is gone. Why? Because when you are at peace with God and with yourself, your body will be at peace with you!

Has J PRINCE ever taught on OSAS?

Hi Willie-T,

No, on the contrary you answered exactly the way I thought you would... which lead straight into my next post... there is no straw man. Now just throwing an accusation the way you have down above shows you don't quite grasp my follow up post to your answer. But, then why stick to the whole counsel of authoritative scripture when you can pick and choice..right??'

As I said I understand John 16 very well and I knew very well that's where you would exactly go. Which leads nicely into Mr Princes teaching nicely.. did you have a look at what was said and even better a post just after that..

I'll repost this just in case you missed it...

here we have Paul telling us about repentance from '''' Dead Works''' that is SIN!!!

You may also notice it says in the Greek.. that you were grieved into repentance (the NIV states it was their 'sorrow' that lead them to repentance)..I wonder why they where sorrowful??? Maybe it was because of their sin..they surely were not sorrowful of their righteousness.

Words have meaning when put together in a sentence. That's how language works.. anyhow here is the Greek for you (context is key).

νῦν χαίρω, οὐχ ὅτι ἐλυπήθητε, ἀλλ’ ὅτι ἐλυπήθητε εἰς μετάνοιαν· ἐλυπήθητε γὰρ κατὰ Θεόν, ἵνα ἐν μηδενὶ ζημιωθῆτε ἐξ ἡμῶν (NA 1904)

ESV,

As it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting. For you felt a godly grief, so that you suffered no loss through us.

NIV

yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us.

KJV

Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.


And on and on... I hope you get the point. Joseph prince did the exact same thing you have done... taken a word and not put it into any biblical context and used it to try and prove his word of faith hyper grace.



What about this verse:

2 Corinthians 12:21 - I fear that when I come again my God may humble me before you, and I may have to mourn over many of those who sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual immorality, and sensuality that they have practiced.

and this one:

Revelation 3:19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.

You see know one will understand why they need the good news if they don't know what the bad news is... and christians won't live a fruitful life if they don't repent from their sins....for they will feel grief over their sins.... and if you say you have no sin...you are a liar (not my words)

Thank Youo

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Thought of posting this on a thread called "What you see is what you get" because this mornings devotional writes it out so well. "It's not the truth that sets you free., but the truth you believe that sets you free". Think about it.

And what we believe about Jesus will determine what happens to us not only in eternity., but for today too.

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[TD="colspan: 3"]Mark 8:29
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[TD="colspan: 3, align: left"] Do you know that how you see Jesus determines what you receive from Him? If you see Jesus as your healer, you will receive healing. If you see Jesus as your refuge and fortress, you will receive protection.

The people of Nazareth, Jesus’ hometown, saw Jesus in the natural. They said of Him, “Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary? And His brothers James, Joses, Simon, and Judas? And His sisters, are they not all with us?” (Matthew 13:55–56) They saw Jesus in the natural. They did not see Him as God in the flesh. As a result, He could not do many mighty works there. (Matthew 13:58)

Today, many people, including some philosophers, see Jesus of Nazareth as a good person who led an exemplary life. They feel that if all of us could live our lives like Him, the world would be a better place.

They don’t see Jesus as the bread of God who came from heaven to give life to the world. (John 6:33) They don’t see Him as the one who came to give them living water, so that they would never thirst again. (John 4:14) They don’t see Him as the Lamb of God, who took away the sin of the world. (John 1:29) They don’t receive from Him what they need because they don’t esteem Him rightly.

Jesus did not come just to set a good example for man to follow. He came to be our Redeemer. (Galatians 3:13) He came to be our righteousness. (1 Corinthians 1:30) He came to be our shepherd, so that we will not lack anything. (Psalm 23:1)

Jesus asked His disciples once, “But who do you say that I am?” How you answer this question depends on how you see Jesus. And how you see Jesus will determine how and what you receive from Him. So see Him as your God, as everything He claims to be in His Word, and He will do mighty works in your life

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So with OSAS theology, that basically means that once someone is saved you're sayings it's ok for them to become a pagan or satanist basically and they're still saved. . . . . . . That makes no sense. Just saying.

Do you support gay marriage?
If you don't the you can't support OSAS.
If you support OSAS, you support anything that has to do with sinning, saying it's ok to be a sinner.

Jesus tells us to repent from sin.
Repent means turn away and not go back to it.
Sooooo OSAS rules out repentance, because OSAS means you can turn back to sin if you want to, and that's an abuse of grace.

If someone believes in OSAS, that person has no right in saying murder, stealing, adultry, idoltry, homosexuality, premarital sex, and anything to do with any of these is wrong. Soooooooo yeah, OSAS is a dead theology and isn't biblical at all.

What you are assuming here is that if we believe salvation is a finished work done by Jesus, we will not seek to go any further. That is a huge and wrong assumption. When a person is wonderfully saved, they see how loved they are and want to learn to be like the One who loved them.
"We love Him because He first loved us". "As new born babes, we begin to desire the sincere milk of the Word and to grow there-by."
A born again Christian does not want to sin because of the new Spirit of life in them. That would be going against their new nature and would vex their soul "exceedingly" Why would any born again Christian after being saved want to be a worshiper of satan? Makes no sense.

A true born again Christian is not seeking loopholes in the Bible to see how much sin they can commit without getting zapped.

But, what I'm stating is say someone did truely become born again, and they strived and strived. And then one do the enemy got to that person (and don't think just because someone is saved means they are invulnerable, God can allow the enemy to test anyone, at any time whenever and however he wants to, just look at Job), and they decided to turn completely away from God, and has a total heart change, you believe they are still saved, say that person became an athiest because the enemy did such a good job, or something along those lines, you still believe that person is saved?

I have a family member, and as much as I love this family member I know he's not saved, because he's denounced the messiah, and is athiest. He use to be in love with the Lord would be in the Lord's light every single day worshipping and praising Him. And then came a long a girl that twisted my family member's heart, and he turned away from the Lord. Again, as much as I love him, I do not believe him to be saved.

I understand what you are saying. If someone 'truly' got born again then they ARE. Being born again is something that takes place. Being given the gift of eternal life means you have the gift and no one, not even yourself can take that away. Yes, we are tested in life and some fall flat on their faces, we all have. Unlike Job though, we have Jesus, the Mediator the Great High Priest. Job wished he had a mediator but he didn't. We are not like Job., he was under the old covenant.

Job did not have the Holy Spirit in him at all times. None of the old testament believers did. We are sealed by the HolySpirit of promise under the new covenant. (so important to know what you have under this new covenant) and what those covenant promises are.

Your family member - if he has actually been born again but is not living for Jesus you can 'only' assume he is not saved. Only God knows his heart and how confused he might be or if he really denounced Jesus. If our minds are not continually renewed each day, we will fall prey to the enemies lies and not walk in the freedom that has been bought and paid for.

The Bible says faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. If we do not keep on living in a life of faith, in the place of learning faith, we will not be strong in the faith either. We grow and live from faith to faith..,

That is why so many believers do not walk in victory and live a sub standard Christian life. Emotions can be twisted because they are of the flesh. We can't count on emotions to get us through. It's not how we feel, it's how solid is our Savior. "For I know whom I have believed in and am persauded that He is able to keep that which I've commited unto Him against that day" Those old hymns sure do come in handy to memorize Scripture.

For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for it is the POWER of god unto salvation...
(we do not keep ourselves). If your heart condemns you God is greater than your heart....
He that has begun a good work in your will perform it till the day of Jesus Christ...
Jesus is the AUTHOR AND FINISHER of our faith.

Emotions will mess us up so having a solid foundation in God's Word believing He loves us and He will keep us and nothing can take us out of His hand is a promise we have and need to hold on to. It's not a hollow promise. All His promises are yes and amen.

The sheep who strays will come back because the Good Shepherd will go out and get him. If he is not one of His, he will be happy to wallow in the pigs mud. But 'sheep' although some spend some time in the mud, can't stand it for very long. Being in the mud doesnt make you a pig. Just at times makes you a dirty sheep for a while.



HOLINESS IS A FRUIT
Luke 11:42 "But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done and not to leave the other undone."
LUKE 11:42-44

When Jesus said, "and not to leave the other undone," it is clear that He is not arguing against doing what is right. God's Word stresses holiness in our actions. The Pharisees' error that caused Jesus' rebuke was that they believed their actions could produce a right relationship with God. But a proper relationship with God can only come by humbling ourselves and putting faith in a Savior, who is Jesus. God cleanses our hearts by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8) and then we have our fruit unto holiness (Rom. 6:22). Holiness is a fruit, not a root, of salvation.

In a similar instance found in Matthew 23:26, Jesus told the Pharisees, "Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also." True Christianity comes from the inside out. A good heart will change a man's actions, but a man's actions cannot change his heart.

One of religion's favorite doctrines is that if you will just act right, you will be right. Nothing could be further from the truth. You must be born again. And if you are born again, then holiness is a by-product and not the way to a relationship with God.

This is the heart of the Gospel. Every major religion of the world has a moral standard it enforces, but only Christianity offers salvation through a Savior. Presenting holiness in any way other than as a result of salvation is denying Jesus as our Savior and places the burden of salvation on us. Improper emphasis on achieving holiness or salvation through one's own actions can damn that person. We must trust Jesus completely.

Ahhhhh yes.....to wish your words would sow seeds of kindness to be enjoyed like a perpetual feast.....

Silly, that part was a joke.

Heb 11:19
Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

What you see is what you get.

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But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,[/TD]
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[TD="colspan: 3, align: left"] Boldness is what God wants you to have when you come to Him. He does not want you to be afraid to come to Him, feeling unworthy because of your sins. He wants you to come boldly to Him, knowing that the death, burial and resurrection of His Son Jesus Christ has justified you and qualified you to boldly receive from Him.
This was the kind of boldness that the woman with the issue of blood had when she touched Jesus. (Mark 5:25–34) Now, by touching Jesus, she knew that she was breaking a Levitical law which states that anyone with a bodily discharge is unclean, and should not appear in public, let alone touch another person. (Leviticus 15)
But she refused to feel condemned by the law. She believed what she had heard about Jesus, and was confident that there would only be love and compassion, not condemnation, from Him. She believed that Jesus would justify her and qualify her to receive the miracle she needed. That was why she boldly pressed her way into the crowd to touch Jesus, who indeed said to her, “Daughter, your faith has made you well.” (Mark 5:34)
What was it about her faith that made her well? Romans 4:5 talks about faith that believes God justifies the ungodly. When you believe that God justifies the ungodly, it will give you boldness to come to God, even when you feel unclean because you have just blown it.
When you fail, don’t run away from God. Run boldly to Him, knowing that you are justified by the blood of Christ and not by your good behavior.
The devil may say to you, “How can you do that? Who do you think you are?” Don’t listen to him. Pick yourself up and thank God for the blood and the gift of no condemnation. (Romans 8:1) If God justifies the ungodly, how much more you, His beloved child![/TD]
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JP

I wonder what it must have took for that woman to touch Jesus. Something had to have happened in her heart to have her break the law.

He DOES have a way of bringing out things our usual "flash-bang" reading of the Bible that so many of us seem to do, never manages. It's kind of sad that some people have been frightened into not even opening one of his books.

Speaking of books, PM me if you get that program working on your computer.

Agreed. I have a few morning readings on email too and Destined To Reign is one of them. The forums are sort of same same and I so enjoyed your thread on JP and the grace message so decided to resurrect it with today's devotional. Just can't get enough of hearing about the love and grace of God and those who preach it and teach about it.