These strategies of the enemy could also be used against Christian forums

[GaryA]

Would not a person sent into the church from the occult tell us that he is saved to gain traction?

Perhaps - but, if he tells me that he is saved, but does not testify in the form of a confession according to 1 John 4, should I believe him? If he actually refuses to testify in such a way, what then? In a church full of mature Christians, he would never gain any traction - not enough to hurt anything.

And, that is the problem with most churches today - not enough mature Christians - Christians who know the Bible well enough to be able to discern that such a thing is occurring.

 

[GaryA]

And, that is the problem with most churches today - not enough mature Christians - Christians who know the Bible well enough to be able to discern that such a thing is occurring.

And, why is this?

Because, most churches are full of people who have the same kind of nonchalant attitudes as some members of CC - not interested in what the Bible says - don't want to know about those things the Bible warns us about - don't want to be a more mature Christian - don't want to grow - just want to remain a little baby Christian for the rest of their life...

Many are not actually born-again. (Therefore, not even a Christian.)

Look around you. See the falling away happening today in an avalanche.

It is because Christians don't know how to be Christians - or don't want to be Christians - to exhibit real faith in the face of adversity.

It is because Christians don't want to be mature Christians - having knowledge, understanding, and discernment.

 

[ZNP]

And, why is this?

Because, most churches are full of people who have the same kind of nonchalant attitudes as some members of CC - not interested in what the Bible says - don't want to know about those things the Bible warns us about - don't want to be a more mature Christian - don't want to grow - just want to remain a little baby Christian for the rest of their life...

Many are not actually born-again. (Therefore, not even a Christian.)

Look around you. See the falling away happening today in an avalanche.

It is because Christians don't know how to be Christians - or don't want to be Christians - to exhibit real faith in the face of adversity.

It is because Christians don't want to be mature Christians - having knowledge, understanding, and discernment.

That was my burden in this thread, I just looked we have 948 people on this thread at the moment, 930 are guests. The vast majority do not post, they are here to read for one reason or another. if you look at the number of members of this forum who "don't want to be a mature Christian" it is only a small handful compared to how many actually visit the forum.

We would be foolish to think that some of these are not here, like Jude says, grumblers, whose goal is to divide and conquer. If the occult sends people into a church with that mission and there are those who have shared a personal testimony that they were sent into a church to do that, then of course they would also visit Christian forums.

 

[Lynx]

I do not have a problem with disagreement - everyone is entitled to their own opinion/view. The problem I have is you seeking to belittle things that others think are important for folks to know - especially and particularly when they are trying to help others by way of knowledge and understanding.

BTW - your mention above of "promoting damage" - in the context of my use of "damage" in post #25 - is referring to what you were saying in post #16 - meaning that "damage" would be done if "this crap" (your words in post #16) were to end up in the Singles Forum. What I was saying in post #25 is that you have done far more than @tourist to promote or cause that [kind of] "damage" in/to the Singles Forum by simply posting in this thread. In other words, it would have better for you and the Singles Forum if you had left this thread well enough alone and not posted at all.


This shows your complete-and-total unwillingness to accept that it is perfectly okay to have both serious threads and lighthearted threads in any forum. Also, you only want there to be lighthearted threads and "just can't handle it" if other people make serious threads - to the point that you [apparently] feel you must disrupt any serious thread with your petty remarks that insult the very thread topic and the intelligence and sincerity of other folks who have some understanding of the topic and wish to conduct orderly peaceful sane discussion of the topic in that particular thread.


This is the problem - you do not care enough to allow others to conduct orderly peaceful sane discussion of the topic without you trying to disrupt it with your petty remarks.

No doubt you have heard the saying:

"If you cannot say something nice, say nothing at all."

How about you learn to leave threads alone when you have nothing better to say that might actually add something meaningful and worthwhile to the thread.

If you were to express an earnest concern in a respectful way about the interest other folks have in the thread topic - that would be worthwhile. However, you don't do that - instead, you express disdain and ridicule for the thread topic and the folks discussing it.

Not everyone is against you. However, there are many, many, many different ways the devil tries to "pull us down" in an attempt to destroy us or make us ineffective for the cause of Christ. The fact that you seem to have such an uncaring attitude towards it - as though no such thing even exists - is a bit concerning.

Who said anything about living in fear?

The Bible promotes knowledge and understanding of things about which we need to know and understand. And, those of us who have knowledge and understanding pertaining to certain issues are - as a rule - not living in fear. We understand what the Bible says, what the reality will be at some point in the future, and place our belief, faith, and trust in God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

We are not afraid.

Are you afraid?

Are you sure?

Your definition of what constitutes a "serious" thread seems quite narrow, if you think I don't participate in any serious threads. But I will try to give you a serious answer anyway:

The problem, and the reason we disagree on this thread, is that I can't take it seriously when someone starts hollering "THIS EVIL GROUP IS OUT TO GET US! Here is their wicked plan!" yet again.

Yes we should be aware of the devil's tricks. Yes the devil is cunning. And yes, the devil does have a certain (limited) amount of power. I still can't take it seriously when people go out looking for evil plots.
1 - If there really is an evil plot against us, it will come to us soon enough.
2 - I have more faith in God than I do in the evil plots.
3 - In my experience people who go out looking for those evil plots start finding them everywhere. "The bank said my account was overdrawn, but I know I had two hundred in there last week. Man, the devil is in that bank. You know money changers are all wicked."
3 extended - Okay, the example was a bit ludicrous. But people who start actively hunting for plots against us do dig up some of the most abstruse things they try to claim are trying to get us.

So yeah, no, I can't take this one seriously. I can be serious when the situation is serious, but I can't believe this is a time for being serious when it's so ludicrous. (But I still took the time to make this serious reply to you and give you a serious explanation of why I can't take this thread seriously.)

 

[SonJudgment]

After watching the video more my thoughts are. For one I enjoyed his testimony coming from darkness into light. The second thought as it pertains to the topic at hand, I don't think its neccessarily the occult or anything, I think its more the case of the things of the world wearing them away from the faith in God. I see this alot in Christian communities both online and offline. They don't neccessarily care about the things of God, heck many of them never have even read the Bible. What they care about is the things of the world, and the worldly trappings of their churches or Christian communities (stuff like making friends, finding a spouse, trying to have a community, functions and events, gratifying their base pleasures, etc.) I think it's just a case of the seeds among the weeds moreso than the seeds devoured by the birds. You'll find this generally even in non-Christian forums there's a sort of pattern they tend to fall into where cliques form, they develop biases and partiality and respect of persons, justice and fairness get thrown out the door, this then causes their groups and forums and chatgroups to essentially begin to eat themselves alive until they reach the point of just essentially destroying themselves and any semblance that they once had of their more illustrious days. I think there is a point also in not worrying too much about it since perhaps they just simply deserve it. You can even apply this really in a wider view of societies on human group dynamics as a whole.

 

[ZNP]

“Let no one in any way deceive you, for it [Jesus’ return] will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,” (2 Thess. 2:3).

We have evidence that the apostasy is here. Basically we have churches that do not recognize that the Bible is the inerrant word of God. They walk according to their own opinion rather than the fellowship of the apostles.

Paul told us they would be fooled by evil spirits and teachings that come from demons (1 Timothy 4:1) and we have very clear evidence of that. There are churches with demonic teachings and teachings by evil spirits. That is what this brother in Post 1 is sharing. He is showing out these demonic teachings have entered some churches.

Also Paul told us this is what we should be looking for because this is what we would see prior to Jesus' return. So anyone who is mocking and scoffing and ridiculing those who are examining the church for apostasy is clearly rejecting the fellowship of the apostles.

Therefore, we must, as Christians, ask this question, “Is there an apostasy occurring in the Christian church today?” Some would say no and others yes. But, as we look for the arrival of the Antichrist, should we not also be looking for the arrival of apostasy? And where else should we first look but in our own house for the Bible tells us that judgment will begin in the house of the Lord (1 Peter 4:17). (https://carm.org/apostasy/apostasy-christian-church/)

But by way of explanation, the Primary Essentials, are those doctrines that the Bible states if they are denied, damnation follows. I have written on this in Essential Doctrines. For brevity, the Bible states that if you deny Jesus is God, you are dead in your sins (John 8:24,58 cf. Exodus 3:14); that if you deny Jesus’ physical resurrection, your faith is in vain (1 Cor. 15:14, cf. John 2:19-21); that if you add works to salvation, you are not in Christ (Gal. 3:1-3; 5:1-4); and that if you preach a gospel contrary to what the apostles preached, you are accursed (Gal. 1:8-9, cf., 1 Cor. 15:1-4). Therefore, to deny any of these doctrines, according to scripture, is to be outside the camp of Christ and invited eternal damnation. This would obviously be apostasy. (https://carm.org/apostasy/apostasy-christian-church/)

“Let no one in any way deceive you, for it [Jesus’ return] will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,” (2 Thess. 2:3).

 

[SonJudgment]

“Let no one in any way deceive you, for it [Jesus’ return] will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,” (2 Thess. 2:3).

We have evidence that the apostasy is here. Basically we have churches that do not recognize that the Bible is the inerrant word of God. They walk according to their own opinion rather than the fellowship of the apostles.

Paul told us they would be fooled by evil spirits and teachings that come from demons (1 Timothy 4:1) and we have very clear evidence of that. There are churches with demonic teachings and teachings by evil spirits. That is what this brother in Post 1 is sharing. He is showing out these demonic teachings have entered some churches.

Also Paul told us this is what we should be looking for because this is what we would see prior to Jesus' return. So anyone who is mocking and scoffing and ridiculing those who are examining the church for apostasy is clearly rejecting the fellowship of the apostles.

Therefore, we must, as Christians, ask this question, “Is there an apostasy occurring in the Christian church today?” Some would say no and others yes. But, as we look for the arrival of the Antichrist, should we not also be looking for the arrival of apostasy? And where else should we first look but in our own house for the Bible tells us that judgment will begin in the house of the Lord (1 Peter 4:17). (https://carm.org/apostasy/apostasy-christian-church/)

But by way of explanation, the Primary Essentials, are those doctrines that the Bible states if they are denied, damnation follows. I have written on this in Essential Doctrines. For brevity, the Bible states that if you deny Jesus is God, you are dead in your sins (John 8:24,58 cf. Exodus 3:14); that if you deny Jesus’ physical resurrection, your faith is in vain (1 Cor. 15:14, cf. John 2:19-21); that if you add works to salvation, you are not in Christ (Gal. 3:1-3; 5:1-4); and that if you preach a gospel contrary to what the apostles preached, you are accursed (Gal. 1:8-9, cf., 1 Cor. 15:1-4). Therefore, to deny any of these doctrines, according to scripture, is to be outside the camp of Christ and invited eternal damnation. This would obviously be apostasy. (https://carm.org/apostasy/apostasy-christian-church/)

“Let no one in any way deceive you, for it [Jesus’ return] will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,” (2 Thess. 2:3).

Aye this is true and what I mean when I say there is a point to not worrying too much about it since maybe they just simply deserve it. Perhaps it is meant to happen so that the wheat, being the true faithful, might be separated from the tares, being the false brethren and false faithful. Really the parable of the seeds is in my opinion the most applicable parable here. It's jsut a case of some seeds are devoured by the birds, some seeds fall among the weeds, some seeds fall in the sandy ground and get their root dried out, and some seeds are on good ground and become mighty trees and they won't be uprooted no matter what.

 

[ZNP]

After watching the video more my thoughts are. For one I enjoyed his testimony coming from darkness into light. The second thought as it pertains to the topic at hand, I don't think its neccessarily the occult or anything, I think its more the case of the things of the world wearing them away from the faith in God. I see this alot in Christian communities both online and offline. They don't neccessarily care about the things of God, heck many of them never have even read the Bible. What they care about is the things of the world, and the worldly trappings of their churches or Christian communities (stuf like making friends, finding a spouse, trying have a community, functions and events, etc.) I think it's just a case of the seeds among the weeds moreso than the seeds devoured by the birds. You'll find this generally even in non-Christian forums there's a sort of pattern they tend to fall into where cliques form, they develop biases and partiality and respect of persons, justice and fairness get thrown out the door, this then causes their groups and forums and chatgroups to essentially begin to eat themselves alive until they reach the point of just essentially destroying themselves and any semblance that they once had of their more illustrious days. I think there is a point also in not worrying too much about it since perhaps they just simply deserve it. You can even apply this really in a wider view of societies on human group dynamics as a whole.

That was my own opinion as well until I saw it while preaching the gospel.

Once a month we went to this food give away to hand out New Testaments. We were handing out 400 at a time. A few people we bumped into were Satanists, some claimed to worship Satan, or Thor, or said they were pagans, etc. You could tell they were not happy with our outreach. But then serious accidents were happening to all the brothers at that give away. Three different brothers had very serious accidents and there were only about five of us doing this, so it seemed we soon would not have anyone left.

So then I decided to stop being naive. I went online and found the name of everyone associated with the local FreeMason lodge. I got the name of every Catholic priest accused of sexual abuse in the area. I got the name of every Mormon in the area. Altogether I had well over 100 names. I then prayed for them by name to be saved, to confess their sins and repent and to bring forth fruit worthy of repentance. Since that time no one has gotten hurt, all the brothers who had had serious accidents and gone to the hospital recovered, and we started handing out 700 NT's at the event each month.

 

[ZNP]

Aye this is true and what I mean when I say there is a point to not worrying too much about it since maybe they just simply deserve it. Perhaps it is meant to happen so that the wheat, being the true faithful, might be separated from the tares, being the false brethren and false faithful. Really the parable of the seeds is in my opinion the most applicable parable here. It's jsut a case of some seeds are devoured by the birds, some seeds fall among the weeds, some seeds fall in the sandy ground and get their root dried out, and some seeds are on good ground and become mighty trees and they won't be uprooted no matter what.

Which is why I shared Jude, it is necessary that we contend for the faith. It is necessary to snatch some out of the fire like Lot was rescued. Jude wanted to talk about the common salvation but the Lord wouldn't let him and required he urge the saints to contend for the faith.

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

 

[SonJudgment]

That was my own opinion as well until I saw it while preaching the gospel.

Once a month we went to this food give away to hand out New Testaments. We were handing out 400 at a time. A few people we bumped into were Satanists, some claimed to worship Satan, or Thor, or said they were pagans, etc. You could tell they were not happy with our outreach. But then serious accidents were happening to all the brothers at that give away. Three different brothers had very serious accidents and there were only about five of us doing this, so it seemed we soon would not have anyone left.

So then I decided to stop being naive. I went online and found the name of everyone associated with the local FreeMason lodge. I got the name of every Catholic priest accused of sexual abuse in the area. I got the name of every Mormon in the area. Altogether I had well over 100 names. I then prayed for them by name to be saved, to confess their sins and repent and to bring forth fruit worthy of repentance. Since that time no one has gotten hurt, all the brothers who had had serious accidents and gone to the hospital recovered, and we started handing out 700 NT's at the event each month.

Yes I mean I have come across such groups and people as well, on this point I find a lot of them aren't very faithful to their neopagan gods nor do they really even have a great understanding of their supposed pagan religion or in the case of Satanists they almost never have any clue about Satan even. My sense is a lot of the neopagan and new age type groups is that they're there again for the worldly trapping just like the false Christians are there for the worldly trappings. I noticed this early in the video where the fellow mentioned while he was all into the new agey type stuff that he had Christian friends who just be doing the same things as he is and then just going to church on Sunday. Really these types of people they're even to the point of being a subject of many memes among the younger generations who deem them with the title of LARPing (Live Action Role Playing) as a sort of cheeky way to point out that they're not very serious about their beliefs but are more or less just play acting.

 

[ZNP]

Hebrews 11:33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions.

Stopping the mouths of lions is a work of faith listed in the faith hall of fame.

 

[ZNP]

Yes I mean I have come across such groups and people as well, on this point I find a lot of them aren't very faithful to their neopagan gods nor do they really even have a great understanding of their supposed pagan religion or in the case of Satanists they almost never have any clue about Satan even. My sense is a lot of the neopagan and new age type groups is that they're there again for the worldly trapping just like the false Christians are there for the worldly trappings. Really they're even to the point of being a subject of many memes among the younger generations who deem them with the title of LARPing (Live Action Role Playing) as a sort of cheeky way to point out that they're not very serious about their beliefs but are more or less just play acting.

My experience is that it is like the church. Perhaps many people who attend church do so because it is a social gathering, others are there once a week or perhaps only at Christmas and Easter (two pagan holidays). But then there are the 10% who for them they seek the kingdom first. For every Christian that is absolute I suspect there is an occult member that is also absolute.

Don't allow someone who mocks and ridicules you to push you around. That is like what Paul said about the wind and the waves tossing you around.

 

[SonJudgment]

I would also say from the video I notice something of a theme I see in society more widely, there is on one hand a very real thirst for spirituality. On the other hand there is a sort of superficial spirituality with them whether they be outright non-Christians or even frankly Christians. It's good on one hand that they want the spiritual things, but at the same time I think this then becomes their trap as they go after the superficial things of the world and confuse these with the spiritual. As it were they feast on appearances not neccessarily the deep things of God.

 

[ZNP]

I would also say from the video I notice something of a theme I see in society more widely, there is on one hand a very real thirst for spirituality. On the other hand there is a sort of superficial spirituality with them whether they be outright non-Christians or even frankly Christians. It's good on one hand that they want the spiritual things, but at the same time I think this then becomes their trap as they go after the superficial things of the world and confuse these with the spiritual. As it were they feast on appearances not neccessarily the deep things of God.

Everything the enemy does is designed for you to miss the mark. If he can get you to misaim then of course you will miss the mark.

Materialism is a key strategy. Notice how pagan holidays like Halloween, Christmas and Easter are all focused on capturing the hears and minds of children.

These holidays are seductive and deceitful. I have met many people while preaching the gospel that do not believe in the Bible because they equate the Bible with the lies they were told about Santa Claus and flying reindeer. At some point in a child's life it becomes a badge of honor to know that Christmas is a lie, and they just assume that this means the Bible is a lie and Christianity is a lie as well.

For others they still embrace it, but the letter to Santa taught them to pray materialistic prayers.

For others they hate it, they hate the materialism, they hate the lies, but they are afraid of being called "a grinch"

Also this teaches that God is this malevolent force who knows all, is watching you and you had better watch out because if you are bad you'll get coal in your stockings (ie go to hell)

 

[SonJudgment]

Everything the enemy does is designed for you to miss the mark. If he can get you to misaim then of course you will miss the mark.

Materialism is a key strategy. Notice how pagan holidays like Halloween, Christmas and Easter are all focused on capturing the hears and minds of children.

On this point I think indeed it's something of how society became sort of atheistized, not that they are outright atheists, but indeed they became atheistized, they go after materialism, they go after faithless things, they go after things they can see that are of the world, sensual things (ie: feelings and emotions overriding truth), natural philosophy, etc. I think this then deadened their faith in a society wide way and thus the new age type thinking and movements is sort of like a reaction or a way for them to compensate, you see this a lot in the "spiritual but not religious" type thinking and you might notice this is very embedded into like neopagan movements and such. I think it's them trying to compensate for losing the faith or elsewise trying to reconcile the atheistized views of the world with spirituality, but it just simply is a poor substitute and is really just still very worldly.

 

[ZNP]

Now Christmas appeals to small kids. But everyone hates being lied to, being deceived, especially by those you trust like your parents. So as they get older and "wiser" they gravitate to Halloween.

 

[ZNP]

On this point I think indeed it's something of how society became sort of atheistized, not that they are outright atheists, but indeed they became atheistized, they go after materialism, they go after faithless things, they go after things they can see that are of the world, sensual things (ie: feelings and emotions overriding truth), natural philosophy, etc. I think this then deadened their faith in a society wide way and thus the new age type thinking and movements is sort of like a way for them to compensate, you see this a lot inthe "spiritual but not religious" type thinking and you might notice this is very embedded into like neopagan movements and such. I think it's them trying to compensate for losing the faith or elsewise trying to reconcile the atheistized views of the world with spirituality, but it just simply is a poor substitute and is really just still very worldly.

That is why you need to see how the occult has fully taken over the music industry and Hollywood.

 

[SonJudgment]

That is why you need to see how the occult has fully taken over the music industry and Hollywood.

Ah that's an old one. I don't really think it's occult neccessarily since occult means hidden and they're pretty open about it. I think it's just again shallow superificial spirituality that isn't even very spiritual, it's just sensual, emotional, and incredibly worldly. I think it is no accident then many of the modern artists and creatives are very vapid and shallow people.

 

[Lynx]

Ah that's an old one. I don't really think it's occult neccessarily since occult means hidden and they're pretty open about it. I think it's just again shallow superificial spirituality that isn't even very spiritual, it's just sensual, emotional, and incredibly worldly. I think it is no accident then many of the modern artists and creatives are very vapid and shallow people.

Carnal is a good word in this instance, much more appropriate than occult. Carnality is quite entertaining... and they ARE trying to sell entertainment. It's hard to make a spiritual video game that is entertaining. Same with videos.

I see a lot of it in the stand-up comedy that I listen to, or in many cases stop listening to after three minutes. The good comedians actually have funny material. The hacks go straight for dirty jokes, because they are easier and guaranteed to get laughs from the lowest common denominator.

 

[ZNP]

Ah that's an old one. I don't really think it's occult neccessarily since occult means hidden and they're pretty open about it. I think it's just again shallow superificial spirituality that isn't even very spiritual, it's just sensual, emotional, and incredibly worldly. I think it is no accident then many of the modern artists and creatives are very vapid and shallow people.

No problem, I will post some material that proves beyond all reasonable doubt.

In the meantime consider two all time classic Christmas movies.

Miracle on 34th Street and It's a Wonderful Life.

Miracle on 34th street concludes with the little girl saying "I believe, I believe". Clearly a reference to believing in Jesus only she is talking about believing in Santa. She has been told that she must pray in faith, her prayer is for the house with the picket fence in the suburbs. The single mother finds a husband and the girl gets her swing set. It appears to be wholesome and good, but it causes so many to misaim.

Then you have It's a Wonderful Life -- The evil banker is defeated, not because he is exposed and prosecuted but because all the townspeople stand together to help out the man who is wrongfully accused of defrauding the people of their money. Why do all these people come to bail him out (hence the name Bailey)? Because he did each of them a favor. It isn't because they think he is innocent, no this is about a law that supersedes the laws of the country. In fact this is what FreeMasons are all about. If your brother is in trouble and he needs your help and you can give it to him then you are obligated to. This is why they have secret hand signals to alert others that they need their help. This is why criminals will walk free from the court because the judge is a Freemason. We are supposed to walk according to our conscience but FreeMasons create a club that stands together regardless of your conscience. In the story of "Its a Wonderful Life" it is a matter of life and death and no doubt for many of the criminal element in Freemasons it is also a matter of life and death. Why do you think we have Epstein's list of people and none of them have had a trial yet? Why do you think that no matter who gets elected it seems they are incapable of doing the people's will?

This is how Hollywood anesthetizes people. I have picked out the "best" of the Christmas movies, no doubt for every "good" one you can easily find an evil one.