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HealthAndHappiness

HealthAndHappiness

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#301
Jul 7, 2022
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#301
Nufan said:
I should also point out their view of haven is new Jerusalem. Two completely different concepts from today. Greek orthodox also have a different view of heaven. They believe heaven is where god is but not necessarily a place. Again haven and hell as we know it are unknowns.
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The New Jerusalem is Heaven and it will depend to the Earth after Jesus conquers it and Satan's armies.

Are you Greek Orthodox?
 
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Nufan

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#302
HealthAndHappiness said:
"he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. "
Revelation 14
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For ever and ever is a poor translation. The greek word used is aion and I just gave you a definition for what aion means. It meand age or unspecified period of time.
 
N

Nufan

Active member
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#303
HealthAndHappiness said:
The New Jerusalem is Heaven and it will depend to the Earth after Jesus conquers it and Satan's armies.

Are you Greek Orthodox?
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No Im not but if I had to choos I would choose Greek Orthidox because its closest to the original faith.
 
HealthAndHappiness

HealthAndHappiness

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#304
Nufan said:
The original Greek word aionios is an adjective of the noun aion which means 'age'. 'Aion Is where we get the word 'eon' or 'age'. 'Aionios should always be translated 'Age-abiding or 'age lasting' or 'of the ages'. It should NEVER have been translated 'eternal'!
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The translators of the KJ Bible were the greatest organization of scholarship that have yet to be excelled by modern translators.
They could actually speak Greek fluently. Do you speak Greek fluently?
 
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Nufan

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#305
HealthAndHappiness said:
The translators of the KJ Bible were the greatest organization of scholarship that have yet to be excelled by modern translators.
They could actually speak Greek fluently. Do you speak Greek fluently?
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Im anti organisation's because they push dagma, hate and sow devision. They also teach bigoted views and there for its the work of the devil.
 
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Nufan

Active member
#306
Oct 10, 2019
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#306
HealthAndHappiness said:
The translators of the KJ Bible were the greatest organization of scholarship that have yet to be excelled by modern translators.
They could actually speak Greek fluently. Do you speak Greek fluently?
Click to expand...
Theres enough resources now where I dont need to be a solar. Back then they didn't have the resources or information we have now.


Ancient Greek αἰών (aiṓn, “age, eternity”).

11 καὶ ὁ καπνὸς τοῦ βασανισμοῦ αὐτῶν εἰς αἰῶνας αἰώνων ἀναβαίνει, καὶ οὐκ ἔχουσιν ἀνάπαυσιν ἡμέρας καὶ νυκτός, οἱ προσκυνοῦντες τὸ θηρίον καὶ τὴν εἰκόνα αὐτοῦ, καὶ εἴ τις λαμβάνει τὸ χάραγμα τοῦ ὀνόματος αὐτοῦ.
 
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Nufan

Active member
#307
Oct 10, 2019
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#307
HealthAndHappiness said:
The translators of the KJ Bible were the greatest organization of scholarship that have yet to be excelled by modern translators.
They could actually speak Greek fluently. Do you speak Greek fluently?
Click to expand...
The word for forever is αἰῶνας which means ages
 
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Nufan

Active member
#308
Oct 10, 2019
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#308
HealthAndHappiness said:
The translators of the KJ Bible were the greatest organization of scholarship that have yet to be excelled by modern translators.
They could actually speak Greek fluently. Do you speak Greek fluently?
Click to expand...
Ages as Epochs of Time Both Testaments speak of "ages" as undefined periods of history over which God rules ( Psalm 90:2 ; 1 Tim 1:17 ; Jude 25 ). As with much intertestamental literature, the Apocalypse of Weeks goes farther, in this case dividing history into ten epochs of varying lengths (1 Enoch 91:12-17; 93:1-10).

Christ has been revealed in the "last time." In the Greek, the words are "eschatos kairos," which translated literally means "the end of the age." The salvation we have now in Christ revealed is a salvation revealed in the last age. So, ages are measured, according to Scripture, with respect to God's plan of redemption.

The age before Christ's revealing is the first age, which then gave way to our current age called "the last times" or the Church age. Notice that Peter says that the prophets were serving us in that earlier age by revealing the truth concerning Christ and the age to come, things that angels long to look upon. Paul echoes this in his letter to the Colossians (Col 1:25-27):
 
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Nufan

Active member
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Oct 10, 2019
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#309
HealthAndHappiness said:
The translators of the KJ Bible were the greatest organization of scholarship that have yet to be excelled by modern translators.
They could actually speak Greek fluently. Do you speak Greek fluently?
Click to expand...
eirgmos aidios (eternal imprisonment) and timorion adialeipton (endless torment)." These words were available and clearly in common use since the Pharisees taught the people their doctrines. (See J W Hansen - Universalism - Prevailing doctrine of the Christian Church during the first 500 years. pg36.)

So, clearly there were words to indicate eternal. It seems Strong's and others had other religious reasons for injecting meanings into words for which there is no literary basis.
 
HealthAndHappiness

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
#310
Jul 7, 2022
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#310
Nufan said:
Im anti organisation's because they push dagma, hate and sow devision. They also teach bigoted views and there for its the work of the devil.
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They had enough divisions to act as checks and balances that kept the King James Bible from denominational dogmas.

So tell me one lone wolf scholar who is a modern genius of linguistics and language excelling Lancelot Andrews. He was just one of the scholars on the committee of 54. He spoke 15 languages and they spent 7 years taking an excellent Bible and getting the translation dialed in. They were Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic scholars. There are textual critics like James White and Mark Ward who put themselves out there as having a working knowledge exceeding those 54 men. Like the modern scholars these men couldn't lead someone to Christ if they walked off the plane in Greece.
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#311
Apr 22, 2013
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#311
Nufan said:
I'm not talking about other groups that are not believers. I'm talking about the groups that agree on the nicene creed and are trinitarian christians. Christians are bigots towards one another. Also, there's no mention in the Bible about there being an eternal damnation and punishment. The word used for eternal also means an age. That means for a period of time, and this wasn't a concept and understanding of the Jewish people at that time, so if Jesus is trying to communicate that punishment is eternal then I don't know why he didn't go into detail about explaining what he meant. What the jewish people at the time believe was that you would have an entire year to get right with god, to repent. The thing is is that the Jews didn't know what would happen to the soul if it doesn't repent, so they have 3 different theories, that either they would be lost in outer darkness and would eventually die, because the soul cannot live without the body, or that you would reincarnate and try again, or you would go to the trash heap and die. The trash heap is the one jeasus preached about. So the only concepts that they had according to Jesus at that time period was the place of the dead, the trash heap and new Jerusalem. So those who do get right with God they would be restored with a new body, a heavenly body. They would then inherit new Jerusalem, which is the restored garden of eden in which they will then dwell in and have eternal life. They will dwell in paradise and have communion and relationship with God They didn't even believe that you would go to heaven. There was also no concept of hell. The second death is in store for those who reject god. Hell and eternal punishment are all concepts and ideas that were imposed by the establishment which promote views and behavior rooted in fear and urgency, which are not fruits of God. Then you look at the Eastern orthodox. They don't believe in a eternal hell as a place of torment. Those who reject god its an unknown to them just as it is for the jews. They believe that Jesus will go to the place of the dead which is known as hell. Jesus decended into hell but its not a place of torment its a place of waiting and rest. Jesus will share the gospel so he can lead them out into salvation. Moses Elijah Aberham were all lead out of this place by Jesus. He set the captives free. Eastern orthodox also believe that God is present in all places, such as in the Old Testament. It says that even in hell God is there. Those who don't want a relationship with God and hate God, for them to be in God's presence and experience his love is a hell. There is no escaping God because he is everywhere and they will wander about in torment seeking rest and will find none.
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Forgive me but my eyes can’t handle a wall of text.
 
N

Nufan

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#312
HealthAndHappiness said:
They had enough divisions to act as checks and balances that kept the King James Bible from denominational dogmas.

So tell me one lone wolf scholar who is a modern genius of linguistics and language excelling Lancelot Andrews. He was just one of the scholars on the committee of 54. He spoke 15 languages and they spent 7 years taking an excellent Bible and getting the translation dialed in. They were Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic scholars. There are textual critics like James White and Mark Ward who put themselves out there as having a working knowledge exceeding those 54 men. Like the modern scholars these men couldn't lead someone to Christ if they walked off the plane in Greece.
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They all are hirelings that are sponsored by an institution and therefore they don't have enough sense to come up with your own conclusion based on actual evidence.That's what I provided you with, that should be enough. I don't wish to have an opinion. I've already made my position clear. And I don't have to prove or validate a thing. Because you can't tell me that there's not better words to use in the Greek language for what Christians are saying is being implied by Jesus and the apostles, so they choose to use a word that means age. Great.That's not a very clear way of communicating eternal. They should have used eirgmos aidios if they ment eternal and timorion adialeipton if they ment endless torment.
 
Bob-Carabbio

Bob-Carabbio

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Jun 24, 2020
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#314
Nufan said:
What is it that unifies the Christian faith?
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The presence of the HOLY SPIRIT indwelling people who have been BORN AGAION BY FAITH in the SIN OFFERING made on Calvary by Jesus, that cleanses them from their SIN, These people are THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH. NO VISIBLE DENOMINATION is the complete embodiment of Jesus' Church. Some are closer to the truth than others, and Born Again Christians can be found in most Denominational system in varying concentrations. Ephesians 4:13 suggests that eventually THERE WILL BE A MATURE VISIBLE CHURCH, however in 2024, it ain't even on the radar - yet.
 
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Nufan

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Oct 10, 2019
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#315
Bob-Carabbio said:
The presence of the HOLY SPIRIT indwelling people who have been BORN AGAION BY FAITH in the SIN OFFERING made on Calvary by Jesus, that cleanses them from their SIN, These people are THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH. NO VISIBLE DENOMINATION is the complete embodiment of Jesus' Church. Some are closer to the truth than others, and Born Again Christians can be found in most Denominational system in varying concentrations. Ephesians 4:13 suggests that eventually THERE WILL BE A MATURE VISIBLE CHURCH, however in 2024, it ain't even on the radar - yet.
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Thank you sir. Good to see you again.
 
T

ThereRoseaLamb

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Jan 17, 2023
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#316
Nufan said:
Im anti organisation's because they push dagma, hate and sow devision. They also teach bigoted views and there for its the work of the devil.
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That's a mouthful and quite a judgment call. How many churches have you personally attended? In what manner do they push dogma? Push hate how? What bigoted views? You need to be more specific. That's an awful big brush you're tarring people with.
 
HealthAndHappiness

HealthAndHappiness

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#317
Jul 7, 2022
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#317
Nufan said:
Im anti organisation's because they push dagma, hate and sow devision. They also teach bigoted views and there for its the work of the devil.
Click to expand...

My Bible is given from the Holy Spirit.
He preserved His Word in the English language through the King James Bible for over 400 years.

31Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Matthew 12

12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Hebrews 4:12

28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Matthew 10

If I were you, I'd take the following message very seriously.
>How to be Saved from Hell<
 
N

Nufan

Active member
#318
Oct 10, 2019
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#318
ThereRoseaLamb said:
That's a mouthful and quite a judgment call. How many churches have you personally attended? In what manner do they push dogma? Push hate how? What bigoted views? You need to be more specific. That's an awful big brush you're tarring people with.
Click to expand...
Docetism, Montanism, Adoptionism, Universalism, Valentinianism, Sabellianism, Gnosticism, Marcionism, Monarchianism, Modalism, Patripassianism, Psilanthropism, Sethianism, Basilideanism, Novatianism, Arianism, Donatism, Apollinarianism, Tritheism, Collyridianism, Binitarianism, Subordinationism, Anomoeanism, Antidicomarians, Nestorianism, Pelagianism, Eutychianism, Monophysitism, Miaphysitism, Three Chapters, Iconoclasm, Monothelitism, Paulicianism, Catharism, Stephanism, Socinianism, Protestantism, Jansenism, Quietism, Febronianism, Americanism,Feeneyism, Modernism

Grant, Robert McQueen (1993). Heresy and Criticism: The Search for Authenticity in Early Christian Literature. Westminster John Knox Press. ISBN 978-0-664-22168-3.
"Docetism". Britannica. Retrieved 2023-05-24.
"Montanism". Montanism | History, Teachings, Heresy, Founder, & Facts | Britannica. Britannica. Retrieved 2023-05-22.
Macquarrie, John (2003). Christology Revisited. SCM Press. p. 63. ISBN 978-0-334-02930-4.
"Universalism". Britannica. Retrieved 2023-05-24.
Henry, Wace. Dictionary of Christian Biography and Literature. Delmarva Publications, Inc. p. 27.
King, Karen L. (2003). What is Gnosticism?. Harvard University Press. ISBN 978-0-674-01762-7.
Lieu, Judith (2015-03-26). Marcion and the Making of a Heretic. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 978-1-107-02904-0.
"Monarchianism". Britannica. Retrieved 2023-05-24.
Hayes, Jerry L. (2015-09-30). Godhead Theology: Modalism, The Original Orthodoxy. CreateSpace Independent Publishing Platform. ISBN 978-1-5169-8352-0.[self-published source?]
Sarot, Marcel (1990). "Patripassianism, Theopaschitism and the Suffering of God. Some Historical and Systematic Considerations". Religious Studies. 26 (3): 363–375. doi:10.1017/S0034412500020527. ISSN 1469-901X. S2CID 170256904.
Machen, J. Gresham (1987). The Virgin Birth of Christ. James Clarke & Co. pp. 22–36. ISBN 978-0-227-67630-1.
Rasimus, Tuomas (2009-10-31). Paradise Reconsidered in Gnostic Mythmaking: Rethinking Sethianism in Light of the Ophite Evidence. BRILL. ISBN 978-90-474-2670-7.
"CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Basilides". www.newadvent.org. Retrieved 2023-06-12.
"Novatian and Novatianism". Catholic Answers. Retrieved 2023-05-24.
Williams, Rowan (2002-01-24). Arius: Heresy and Tradition. Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing. ISBN 978-1-4674-3175-0.
"Donatist". Britannica. Retrieved 2023-05-22.
"Apollinarianism". Catholic Answers. Retrieved 2023-05-24.
"tritheism". Dictionary.com. Retrieved 2023-05-24.
"Collyridianism". Catholic Answers. Retrieved 2023-06-02.
Boyarin, Daniel (2010-11-24). Border Lines: The Partition of Judaeo-Christianity. University of Pennsylvania Press. p. 120. ISBN 978-0-8122-0384-4.
"Subordinationism | Christianity | Britannica". www.britannica.com. Retrieved 2023-06-02.
"Anomoean | Anomoean | Monophysite, Miaphysite, Dyophysite | Britannica". www.britannica.com. Retrieved 2023-08-25.
Shipman, Andrew Jackson (1907). "Antidicomarianites" . Catholic Encyclopedia. Vol. 1.
Chesnut, Roberta C. (1978). "The Two Prosopa in Nestorius' "Bazaar of Heracleides"". The Journal of Theological Studies. 29 (2): 392–409. doi:10.1093/jts/XXIX.2.392. ISSN 0022-5185. JSTOR 23958267.
"Pelagianism". Britannica. Retrieved 2023-05-22.
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"Monophysite". Monophysite | Definition, History, & Beliefs | Britannica. Britannica. 2023-04-13. Retrieved 2023-05-24.
"miaphysitism". Random House Webster's Unabridged Dictionary.
"The Universal Church and Schisms". Coptic Orthodox Diocese of the Midlands, U.K.
"Three Chapters Controversy | Christianity | Britannica". www.britannica.com. Retrieved 2023-07-17.
"Iconoclasm". Catholic Answers. Retrieved 2023-05-24.
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Dirshaye, Menberu (2005). "Estifanos". Dictionary of African Christian Biography. Retrieved 4 June 2023.
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"Protestantism | Definition, Beliefs, History, & Facts | Britannica". www.britannica.com. 2023-06-02. Retrieved 2023-06-02.
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N

Nufan

Active member
#319
Oct 10, 2019
284
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#319
HealthAndHappiness said:
My Bible is given from the Holy Spirit.
He preserved His Word in the English language through the King James Bible for over 400 years.

31Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Matthew 12

12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Hebrews 4:12

28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Matthew 10

If I were you, I'd take the following message very seriously.
>How to be Saved from Hell<
Click to expand...
This conversation is no longer fruitful. Im sorry we couldn't agree.
 
N

Nufan

Active member
#320
Oct 10, 2019
284
32
28
#320
HealthAndHappiness said:
My Bible is given from the Holy Spirit.
He preserved His Word in the English language through the King James Bible for over 400 years.

31Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Matthew 12

12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Hebrews 4:12

28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Matthew 10

If I were you, I'd take the following message very seriously.
>How to be Saved from Hell<
Click to expand...
So the bible does say god can destroy the soul. Interesting...
 
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