Angels posing as men.

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DanielJosephBoucher

Member
#101
May 4, 2023
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#101
It seems contradictory to me that God would put out Commandments that it is His will for them to be followed and then for Him to go against that will and allow people to violate the Commandments only to punish them for it afterwards.
 
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DanielJosephBoucher

Member
#102
May 4, 2023
88
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#102
Sin and transgression are the fault of the creature's use of his or her own God-given free will. It is not God's will that His creatures sin or transgress.
 
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ChristsChild

Active member
#103
Apr 28, 2023
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#103
Moses_Young said:
Are you sure? Sometimes, it is hard to tell the difference between a wokist/leftist/Communist and a demon, as they often are taking orders from the same place.
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I'm sure. I look people in the eyes when we talk, and I know what I saw . o_O
 
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DanielJosephBoucher

Member
#104
May 4, 2023
88
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#104
Magenta said:
If God did not allow it, sin and transgression would not happen.

God's permissive will allows for these things even though they are not aligned with His moral will.

His sovereign will does not prevent them from happening.

Think on that, and the fact that Jesus was purposed from before the foundation of the world...
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I will think on this "permissive will" idea. It is a logical explanation. It just doesn't make sense to me that God would actually allow wrongdoing. Merely not preventing wrongdoing does not mean that He's actually allowing it.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#105
Jul 3, 2015
61,133
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#105
DanielJosephBoucher said:
I will think on this "permissive will" idea. It is a logical explanation. It just doesn't make sense to me that God
would actually allow wrongdoing. Merely not preventing wrongdoing does not mean that He's actually allowing it.
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We know God is sovereign. That is not being questioned .:D

We know His moral will through His character and commandments.

If it were not possible to transgress His moral will, sin would not and could not have happened.

And yet it did. Why? Because God allowed it. God not only allowed it, but knew beforehand it would happen.
 
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DanielJosephBoucher

Member
#106
May 4, 2023
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#106
Magenta said:
You contradict yourself.
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It doesn't contradict because it's two separate matters:
1. What God doesn't allow.
2. What God allows.
I agree with you about what you said about what God doesn't allow to happen, that if He doesn't allow something, then it won't happen.
I disagree with you about what you believe God allows to happen. I don't think He allows sin to happen. People just do it by their own free wills; it's not God's will that people sin.
 
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ChristsChild

Active member
#107
Apr 28, 2023
213
109
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#107
DanielJosephBoucher said:
I will think on this "permissive will" idea. It is a logical explanation. It just doesn't make sense to me that God would actually allow wrongdoing. Merely not preventing wrongdoing does not mean that He's actually allowing it.
Click to expand...
Is God Sovereign?
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#108
Jul 3, 2015
61,133
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#108
DanielJosephBoucher said:
It doesn't contradict because it's two separate matters:
1. What God doesn't allow.
2. What God allows.
I agree with you about what you said about what God doesn't allow to happen, that if He doesn't allow something, then it won't happen.
I disagree with you about what you believe God allows to happen. I don't think He allows sin to happen. People just do it by their own free wills; it's not God's will that people sin.
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You contradict yourself because on the one hand you agree that something cannot happen
unless God allows it, but then you turn around and say God does not allow sin to happen.
Allowing something to happen is not the same thing as causing or willing something to
happen. You conflate terms and are confused about what we are even discussing. If God
did not allow sin to happen, it would not and could not happen. Sin happens. God allows it.
 
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ChristsChild

Active member
#109
Apr 28, 2023
213
109
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#109
Magenta said:
You contradict yourself because on the one hand you agree that something cannot happen
unless God allows it, but then you turn around and say God does not allow sin to happen.
Allowing something to happen is not the same thing as causing or willing something to
happen. You conflate terms and are confused about what we are even discussing. If God
did not allow sin to happen, it would not and could not happen. Sin happens. God allows it.
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Why?
 
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DanielJosephBoucher

Member
#110
May 4, 2023
88
9
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#110
Magenta said:
You contradict yourself because on the one hand you agree that something cannot happen
unless God allows it, but then you turn around and say God does not allow sin to happen.
Allowing something to happen is not the same thing as causing or willing something to
happen. You conflate terms and are confused about what we are even discussing. If God
did not allow sin to happen, it would not and could not happen. Sin happens. God allows it.
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No, I'm not conflating. I'm not confused. I know and understand what we are discussing. Be careful what you accuse people of. Maybe things may seem that way to you, so thanks for sharing your sentiments, but make sure you are careful when you judge me. Judge not, lest ye be judged.

No, I didn't say that something cannot happen unless God allows it to happen. I said something cannot happen if God does not allow it to happen. Those are two different things. Allowing and not allowing are two different things; don't confuse the two, please. If God wills for something to not happen, He doesn't allow for it to happen and it does not happen. Allowing something to happen is also an act of God's will. But just because something happens, it doesn't mean that God allows it by His will. God created creatures that have wills of their own. Everyone is at play. That is how sin happens. The will of the creature causes the sin to occur, not the will of the Creator.
 
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ChristsChild

Active member
#111
Apr 28, 2023
213
109
43
#111
DanielJosephBoucher said:
No, I'm not conflating. I'm not confused. I know and understand what we are discussing. Be careful what you accuse people of. Maybe things may seem that way to you, so thanks for sharing your sentiments, but make sure you are careful when you judge me. Judge not, lest ye be judged.

No, I didn't say that something cannot happen unless God allows it to happen. I said something cannot happen if God does not allow it to happen. Those are two different things. Allowing and not allowing are two different things; don't confuse the two, please. If God wills for something to not happen, He doesn't allow for it to happen and it does not happen. Allowing something to happen is also an act of God's will. But just because something happens, it doesn't mean that God allows it by His will. God created creatures that have wills of their own. Everyone is at play. That is how sin happens. The will of the creature causes the sin to occur, not the will of the Creator.
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Please define what sin is.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#115
Jul 3, 2015
61,133
30,268
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#115
DanielJosephBoucher said:
I don't think He allows sin to happen.
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Of course God allows sin to happen. Yes you conflate and are confused. Allowing sin to happen
is not the same as willing it to happen. You can't seem to get this through your skull. Since sin
happens, God allows it. If God did not allow sin to happen, sin could not and would not happen.
But you are blind to this salient fact. No point discussing it under those conditions. Bye.
 
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DanielJosephBoucher

Member
#117
May 4, 2023
88
9
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#117
Magenta said:
Of course God allows sin to happen. Yes you conflate and are confused. Allowing sin to happen
is not the same as willing it to happen. You can't seem to get this through your skull. Since sin
happens, God allows it. If God did not allow sin to happen, sin could not and would not happen.
But you are blind to this salient fact. No point discussing it under those conditions. Bye.
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Wow, what a temper. Be nice.
 
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DanielJosephBoucher

Member
#119
May 4, 2023
88
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#119
Magenta said:
Allowing sin to happen
is not the same as willing it to happen. You can't seem to get this through your skull.
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I understand that those are two different things. You judge me based on your prejudicial lies about me. You don't frankly know me for who I am. Please apologize.
 
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