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Markum1972

Senior Member
Mar 25, 2013
1,165
32
48
#21
I suggest you read up on your history :)

Check how the Jews were treated by the Muslims when Umar Ibn Al Khatab took over Jerusalem. Perhaps check out the treaty of Umar which is one of the most progressive treaties in history.

Also check whas t happened with the Jews after the 2nd crusade and also check where the Jews fled to after the Spanish inquisition. Avoid thrash web sites and local media for your information. I would also suggest you don't get any info from people frothing at the mouth. lol
Answer me this...

Is the Dome of the Rock, the Muslim mosque, which currently sits upon Mount Zion, the holy hill of God, built according to the design that God gave to Solomon?
 
A

AmmiAmmiel

Guest
#22
Answer me this...

Is the Dome of the Rock, the Muslim mosque, which currently sits upon Mount Zion, the holy hill of God, built according to the design that God gave to Solomon?

I know the question isn't directed toward me but,.. I want to make know my knowledge of the Temple Mount. I have a map of the Mount as described by God to Solomon and how it is as of 1983. As it is Today, the Temple Mount contains not a Temple to God the Father Almighty, but a Temple to Satan. Think about all the Satanic activity happening in the Mount Today,.. It's striking. The forces of Evil are at work, and Satan is using the world in an attempt to overthrow God! Study Islam in depth in comparison to God's Word, you will find that Islam is all about overthrowing the Truth. This "Allah"'s characteristics as described in the Qur'an are identical to the characteristics of Satan/Lucifer/The Devil/Man of Sin in the Bible. It's a complete inversion of the Truth. "Allah" is always described in the Qur'an exactly how Satan would describe himself to get someone to worship him as God.

Google: Attributes of God vs. Allah, you will get this Page first,..

Print This Article
God of Christianity
vs. Allah of Islam


By Abdullah Al Araby


Jump to: The God of Christianity
The Son The Holy Spirit The "ALLAH" of Islam


Both Christians and Muslims share belief in a sovereign Deity who is one, heavenly, spiritual, the creator of heaven and earth and the judge of all mankind. Christians call Him " God" and Muslims call Him "Allah". One may thus presume that the attributes of God and Allah are the same. A careful examination of the matter, however, will prove that it is not exactly so.


Muslim activists in the West have been using the tactic of claiming that they worship the same god as the Christians in order to gain legitimacy and acceptance. They have been using the name "God" in place of "Allah" in many translations of the Quran.


There is nothing new under the sun! This reminds us of what happened 14 centuries ago. When Mohammed started preaching his new religion in Mecca he was conciliatory and appeasing to Christians. He told them: "We believe in What has been sent down to us and sent down to you, our God is the same as your God." Surah 29:46. Compare this with what happened later, in Medina, after Mohammed gained strength. Allah then tells him to "Fight those who believe not in God nor the last day...Nor acknowledge the religion of truth (Islam), (even if they are) of the people of the Book, until they pay Jizya (tribute tax) with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued". Surah 9:29


However, the attributes of "God of Christianity" and "Allah of Islam" are quite different. God of the Bible is loving and personal, Allah, on the other hands, is wrathful and non-personal.


THE GOD OF CHRISTIANITY


Christianity believes in a one triune God, while Islam rejects this concept as blasphemous.


"They do blaspheme who say Allah is one of three in a Trinity, for there is no god except One Alah". Surah 5:73


The reason behind Islam's rejection of the concept of the triune God is a misunderstanding of the real meaning behind it. It seems that Islam's understanding of the Trinity was derived from a Christian heresy which existed in Arabia at the time of Mohammed.


This heresy taught a trinity consisting of God the Father, God the Mother (the Virgin Mary), and God the Son (Jesus). The Quran says:


"And behold! God will say: O Jesus the son of Mary didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah? He (Jesus) will say: Glory to thee, never could I say what I had no right (to say)". Surah 5:116


Christians, in fact, believe in one God who has made Himself manifest in three Persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Jesus declared this doctrine when He instructed His disciples, saying:


"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost".Matthew 28:19 & 20






The Father


Islam doesn't know the loving Fatherhood of God. That intimate relationship with God is foreign to Islam and condemned by the Quran.


"(Both) the Jews and the Christians say, 'We are sons of Allah and His beloved'. Say: why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, you are but men of the men He has created". Surah 5:18


On the other hand, the concept of God being our heavenly Father is at the core of the Christian faith. Jesus taught His disciples to pray, saying:


"Our Father, which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name..." Matthew 6:9


The relationship between Jesus the Son and God the Father is exhibited on the Cross. We see Jesus addressing God as the Father:


"Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." Luke 23:34


"Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit." Luke 23:46


The New Testament is full of references to God as the Father of all believers.


"Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God... Behold, now are we the sons of God." 1 John 3: 1 & 2






The Son


Islam cannot accept the role of Jesus as the Son of God.


"O People of the book! Commit no excess in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but truth, Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him. So believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not 'Trinity': desist! It will be better for you. For Allah is One Allah. Glory be to Him: (Far exalted is He) above having a son." Surah 4:171


Nor does Islam accept the deity of Jesus


"In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary. Say: who then hath the least power against Allah if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all - everyone that is on earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is in between... For Allah hath power over all things." Surah 5:17


The God of Islam possesses all power over all things, including the power to erase sin if He so desires and when He so desires. This is completely different from the God of Christianity who is just and merciful, and who must work within the plan of salvation, to satisfy both His mercy and justice. The plan cannot be carried out without the sacrifice of Jesus, the Son of God, on the cross, on our behalf, in order to pay the penalty of our transgression.


"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16


The love of God towards sinners is against the spirit of Islam. Islam vehemently rejects the crucifixion of Jesus.


"That they said (in boast), . We killed Christ Jesus, the Son of Mary. ,,,but they killed him not, nor crucified him." Surah 4:157







The Holy Spirit


Islam looks upon the Holy Spirit as a created spirit the same as an angel. In many instances the Quran uses the name "Holy Spirit" to mean an angel. In the story of the birth of Jesus, the Quran states that God has sent to Mary "His Spirit" (meaning the Angel Gabriel) to announce to her the news that she was chosen to be the mother of Jesus.


"Then We (God) sent to her Our Angel (in the original: Our spirit), and he appeared before her as a man in all respects." Surah 19:17


The Spirit of God (as the Angel Gabriel) was also the one who allegedly carried the message of the Quran to Mohammed.


"Say the Holy Spirit (The Angel Gabriel) has brought the revelation from thy Lord in truth." Surah 16:102


Because Muslims do not recognize the Holy Spirit, they cannot accept the Lordship of Jesus.


"No man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost."
1 Corinthians 12:3


And because Muslims don't have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them, they don't have the assurance of salvation.


"The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God, and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint heirs with Christ." Romans 8:16 & 17






THE "ALLAH" OF ISLAM


In theory Allah in the Quran has 99 names or attributes such as: Omniscient, Omnipotent, Sublime, Living, Everlasting, Holy, Light, Creator, Powerful...etc. In reality, however, the Quran paints a picture of Allah that in many ways resembles Mohammed's own personality.


Whatever Mohammed wanted, Allah wanted for him. However Mohammed reacted, Allah reacted for him. Aisha, (one of Mohammed's 13 wives) was quoted as saying to Mohammed scornfully:


"O Allah's Apostle, I do not see but that your Lord hurries in pleasing you." Al-Bukhari Vol 7:48


Here are just a few examples: When Abu Lahab criticized Mohammed, telling him, . Perish you, Mohammed! Did you invite us here for this?. , Allah immediately sends down Surah 111 to condemn both Abu Lahab and his wife.


"Perish the hands of the Father of Flane (Abu Lahab). Burnt soon will he be in fire of blazing flame. His wife shall carry the wood as fuel."


When Al Walid Ibn Almoghira and Omaya Ibn Khalaf mocked Mohammed and boasted of their wealth, Allah sends down Surah 104 rebuking them.


"Woe to every (kind of) scandal-monger and backbiter who pileth up wealth and layeth it by, thinking that wealth would make last forever. He will be sure to be thrown into the fire (of the wrath) of Allah kindled (to a blaze)."


When Mohammed fell in love with Zaynab, wife of his adopted son (Zaid), God approved of divorcing her from Zaid and joined her in marriage to Mohammed: -


"Then, when Zaid had dissolved (his marriage) with her We joined her in marriage to thee, in order that there might be no difficulty to the believers in marriage to wives of their adopted sons." Surah 33:37


When Mohammed's wives demanded higher allowances out of the booty taken from the massacred Banu Qorayza Jewish tribe, God settled it by telling the wives to either be content with their present allowance or face divorce. (See Surah 33:28 & 29)


When Hafsa caught Mohammed, in her bed, making love to his concubine Mariya, Mohammed tried to please angry Hafsa by promising her that he will stay away from Mariya. At this point Allah intervenes in Mohammed's behalf: -


"O Prophet why holdest thou to be forbidden that which God has made lawful to thee? Thou seekest to please thy consorts. But Allah is oft forgiving, most merciful." Surah 66:1


*******


The next time you attend one of those "bridge-building" meetings, where a panel of a Catholic priest, a Protestant minister, a Jewish rabbi and a Muslim sheik, hold hands in solidarity declaring that they all worship the same God, remember these differences!


That bridge they are building is a one way bridge, leading only towards Islam.
 

Markum1972

Senior Member
Mar 25, 2013
1,165
32
48
#23
I know the question isn't directed toward me but,.. I want to make know my knowledge of the Temple Mount. I have a map of the Mount as described by God to Solomon and how it is as of 1983. As it is Today, the Temple Mount contains not a Temple to God the Father Almighty, but a Temple to Satan. Think about all the Satanic activity happening in the Mount Today,.. It's striking. The forces of Evil are at work, and Satan is using the world in an attempt to overthrow God! Study Islam in depth in comparison to God's Word, you will find that Islam is all about overthrowing the Truth. This "Allah"'s characteristics as described in the Qur'an are identical to the characteristics of Satan/Lucifer/The Devil/Man of Sin in the Bible. It's a complete inversion of the Truth. "Allah" is always described in the Qur'an exactly how Satan would describe himself to get someone to worship him as God.

Google: Attributes of God vs. Allah, you will get this Page first,..

Print This Article
God of Christianity
vs. Allah of Islam


By Abdullah Al Araby


Jump to: The God of Christianity
The Son The Holy Spirit The "ALLAH" of Islam


Both Christians and Muslims share belief in a sovereign Deity who is one, heavenly, spiritual, the creator of heaven and earth and the judge of all mankind. Christians call Him " God" and Muslims call Him "Allah". One may thus presume that the attributes of God and Allah are the same. A careful examination of the matter, however, will prove that it is not exactly so.


Muslim activists in the West have been using the tactic of claiming that they worship the same god as the Christians in order to gain legitimacy and acceptance. They have been using the name "God" in place of "Allah" in many translations of the Quran.


There is nothing new under the sun! This reminds us of what happened 14 centuries ago. When Mohammed started preaching his new religion in Mecca he was conciliatory and appeasing to Christians. He told them: "We believe in What has been sent down to us and sent down to you, our God is the same as your God." Surah 29:46. Compare this with what happened later, in Medina, after Mohammed gained strength. Allah then tells him to "Fight those who believe not in God nor the last day...Nor acknowledge the religion of truth (Islam), (even if they are) of the people of the Book, until they pay Jizya (tribute tax) with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued". Surah 9:29


However, the attributes of "God of Christianity" and "Allah of Islam" are quite different. God of the Bible is loving and personal, Allah, on the other hands, is wrathful and non-personal.


THE GOD OF CHRISTIANITY


Christianity believes in a one triune God, while Islam rejects this concept as blasphemous.


"They do blaspheme who say Allah is one of three in a Trinity, for there is no god except One Alah". Surah 5:73


The reason behind Islam's rejection of the concept of the triune God is a misunderstanding of the real meaning behind it. It seems that Islam's understanding of the Trinity was derived from a Christian heresy which existed in Arabia at the time of Mohammed.


This heresy taught a trinity consisting of God the Father, God the Mother (the Virgin Mary), and God the Son (Jesus). The Quran says:


"And behold! God will say: O Jesus the son of Mary didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah? He (Jesus) will say: Glory to thee, never could I say what I had no right (to say)". Surah 5:116


Christians, in fact, believe in one God who has made Himself manifest in three Persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Jesus declared this doctrine when He instructed His disciples, saying:


"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost".Matthew 28:19 & 20






The Father


Islam doesn't know the loving Fatherhood of God. That intimate relationship with God is foreign to Islam and condemned by the Quran.


"(Both) the Jews and the Christians say, 'We are sons of Allah and His beloved'. Say: why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, you are but men of the men He has created". Surah 5:18


On the other hand, the concept of God being our heavenly Father is at the core of the Christian faith. Jesus taught His disciples to pray, saying:


"Our Father, which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name..." Matthew 6:9


The relationship between Jesus the Son and God the Father is exhibited on the Cross. We see Jesus addressing God as the Father:


"Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." Luke 23:34


"Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit." Luke 23:46


The New Testament is full of references to God as the Father of all believers.


"Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God... Behold, now are we the sons of God." 1 John 3: 1 & 2






The Son


Islam cannot accept the role of Jesus as the Son of God.


"O People of the book! Commit no excess in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but truth, Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him. So believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not 'Trinity': desist! It will be better for you. For Allah is One Allah. Glory be to Him: (Far exalted is He) above having a son." Surah 4:171


Nor does Islam accept the deity of Jesus


"In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary. Say: who then hath the least power against Allah if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all - everyone that is on earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is in between... For Allah hath power over all things." Surah 5:17


The God of Islam possesses all power over all things, including the power to erase sin if He so desires and when He so desires. This is completely different from the God of Christianity who is just and merciful, and who must work within the plan of salvation, to satisfy both His mercy and justice. The plan cannot be carried out without the sacrifice of Jesus, the Son of God, on the cross, on our behalf, in order to pay the penalty of our transgression.


"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16


The love of God towards sinners is against the spirit of Islam. Islam vehemently rejects the crucifixion of Jesus.


"That they said (in boast), . We killed Christ Jesus, the Son of Mary. ,,,but they killed him not, nor crucified him." Surah 4:157







The Holy Spirit


Islam looks upon the Holy Spirit as a created spirit the same as an angel. In many instances the Quran uses the name "Holy Spirit" to mean an angel. In the story of the birth of Jesus, the Quran states that God has sent to Mary "His Spirit" (meaning the Angel Gabriel) to announce to her the news that she was chosen to be the mother of Jesus.


"Then We (God) sent to her Our Angel (in the original: Our spirit), and he appeared before her as a man in all respects." Surah 19:17


The Spirit of God (as the Angel Gabriel) was also the one who allegedly carried the message of the Quran to Mohammed.


"Say the Holy Spirit (The Angel Gabriel) has brought the revelation from thy Lord in truth." Surah 16:102


Because Muslims do not recognize the Holy Spirit, they cannot accept the Lordship of Jesus.


"No man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost."
1 Corinthians 12:3


And because Muslims don't have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them, they don't have the assurance of salvation.


"The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God, and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint heirs with Christ." Romans 8:16 & 17






THE "ALLAH" OF ISLAM


In theory Allah in the Quran has 99 names or attributes such as: Omniscient, Omnipotent, Sublime, Living, Everlasting, Holy, Light, Creator, Powerful...etc. In reality, however, the Quran paints a picture of Allah that in many ways resembles Mohammed's own personality.


Whatever Mohammed wanted, Allah wanted for him. However Mohammed reacted, Allah reacted for him. Aisha, (one of Mohammed's 13 wives) was quoted as saying to Mohammed scornfully:


"O Allah's Apostle, I do not see but that your Lord hurries in pleasing you." Al-Bukhari Vol 7:48


Here are just a few examples: When Abu Lahab criticized Mohammed, telling him, . Perish you, Mohammed! Did you invite us here for this?. , Allah immediately sends down Surah 111 to condemn both Abu Lahab and his wife.


"Perish the hands of the Father of Flane (Abu Lahab). Burnt soon will he be in fire of blazing flame. His wife shall carry the wood as fuel."


When Al Walid Ibn Almoghira and Omaya Ibn Khalaf mocked Mohammed and boasted of their wealth, Allah sends down Surah 104 rebuking them.


"Woe to every (kind of) scandal-monger and backbiter who pileth up wealth and layeth it by, thinking that wealth would make last forever. He will be sure to be thrown into the fire (of the wrath) of Allah kindled (to a blaze)."


When Mohammed fell in love with Zaynab, wife of his adopted son (Zaid), God approved of divorcing her from Zaid and joined her in marriage to Mohammed: -


"Then, when Zaid had dissolved (his marriage) with her We joined her in marriage to thee, in order that there might be no difficulty to the believers in marriage to wives of their adopted sons." Surah 33:37


When Mohammed's wives demanded higher allowances out of the booty taken from the massacred Banu Qorayza Jewish tribe, God settled it by telling the wives to either be content with their present allowance or face divorce. (See Surah 33:28 & 29)


When Hafsa caught Mohammed, in her bed, making love to his concubine Mariya, Mohammed tried to please angry Hafsa by promising her that he will stay away from Mariya. At this point Allah intervenes in Mohammed's behalf: -


"O Prophet why holdest thou to be forbidden that which God has made lawful to thee? Thou seekest to please thy consorts. But Allah is oft forgiving, most merciful." Surah 66:1


*******


The next time you attend one of those "bridge-building" meetings, where a panel of a Catholic priest, a Protestant minister, a Jewish rabbi and a Muslim sheik, hold hands in solidarity declaring that they all worship the same God, remember these differences!


That bridge they are building is a one way bridge, leading only towards Islam.
Chrislam (google it) is in the making. The white horse and pale horse are uniting.
 
A

AmmiAmmiel

Guest
#24
Chrislam (google it) is in the making. The white horse and pale horse are uniting.
Oh I already know lol. Prophecy is being set up to be fulfilled. I personally believe the First Seal is the rise of the Man of Sin. The physical manifestation of the Antichrist Spirit will gain physical power and begin to ascend to world domination as the Seals open. Chrislam seems to be the perfect way for Satan to accomplish his will, and a very convincing way to see the Antichrist carry out Eschatological Prophecy.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#25
Umm... I think you have misunderstood me.
Firstly, I don't hate Muslims, Jews, or anyone. I know Muslims that have received Jesus only because someone loved them enough to share the gospel with them.
I am quoting to you the claims of Islam and Muslims that I have spoken to. You can disagree with my claims all you want, but only by calling me a liar. Before you go to that extent though, I would recommend going to some Islamic websites and see for yourself what they are saying. You don't have to take my word for it.
As far as the scripture goes, I'll not undergo one of your foolish tests again. Study to show YOURself approved. It is not that difficult to find in both the old and new testaments. You deny that history is written in the scriptures? You don't have to be Jewish or Islamic to know the history of this war that has waged on for millennia. If you want to deny that God speaks about it in the scripture, that is your choice.
Just because Israel is no longer Jew nor Gentile, does not mean that this war does not exist.
I agree with ALL of the scriptures that you posted and understand WHO Israel is.
I recommend searching the scriptures for the significance of the black stone if you are not aware of WHO Allah is. Or is that not also revealed in the scriptures as well?
i'm not arguing for Islam:)

i'm hoping for proper Biblical understanding.

no one can show Islam is singled out scripture ...it's a pagan religion, opposed to Christ as all fallen men are.

...

and no one can explain the 'War on Terror'.

America is going into lock-down...as we speak....this was planned.

it's a take-down and has nothing at all to do with Islam.

nothing.

such a shame.

people still don't see it.

but that's how it was worked.

a little leaven here, then a little there.

take care then
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#26
Oh I already know lol. Prophecy is being set up to be fulfilled. I personally believe the First Seal is the rise of the Man of Sin. The physical manifestation of the Antichrist Spirit will gain physical power and begin to ascend to world domination as the Seals open. Chrislam seems to be the perfect way for Satan to accomplish his will, and a very convincing way to see the Antichrist carry out Eschatological Prophecy.
nonsense.
you're all looking in the wrong place.
it's actually pretty simple.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#27
Chrislam (google it) is in the making. The white horse and pale horse are uniting.
LOL. Chrislam?

purleeze.

Christianity dun got Judaized.

the fringes went out willingly.

severed from Grace.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#28
Answer me this...

Is the Dome of the Rock, the Muslim mosque, which currently sits upon Mount Zion, the holy hill of God, built according to the design that God gave to Solomon?
Jerusalem that now is?

that's not God's Holy Mountain.

Jesus is the Cornerstone and His Church is the Holy Mountain; He is the Holy Temple; the Heavenly Zion.

and all who have been baptized into Christ are already/but not yet GONE.



:)


John 4:21
"Woman," Jesus replied, "believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
 
A

AmmiAmmiel

Guest
#29
Why don't you stop talking and go study the core elements of Islam vs those of Christianity?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#30
Why don't you stop talking and go study the core elements of Islam vs those of Christianity?

i know what Islam says.
so what?

Jesus said expect persecution....try to live in peace with all men.

i'm not afraid. why are you?
 
A

AmmiAmmiel

Guest
#31
Why do you assume I'm afraid? I fear nothing but God. I just think it's important to know these things and be aware of the advances the enemy is making.
 

Markum1972

Senior Member
Mar 25, 2013
1,165
32
48
#32
Jerusalem that now is?

that's not God's Holy Mountain.

Jesus is the Cornerstone and His Church is the Holy Mountain; He is the Holy Temple; the Heavenly Zion.

and all who have been baptized into Christ are already/but not yet GONE.



:)


John 4:21
"Woman," Jesus replied, "believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
"This place I have reserved unto myself."

Blaspheme. You magnify men and exalt them above all that is God and all that is holy. You claim to want scripture from others to support their claims but then make statements like this that oppose what is written that God has said. Hypocrite. Who has warned you to fear the wrath to come?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#33
"This place I have reserved unto myself."

Blaspheme. You magnify men and exalt them above all that is God and all that is holy. You claim to want scripture from others to support their claims but then make statements like this that oppose what is written that God has said. Hypocrite. Who has warned you to fear the wrath to come?
Hebrews 12:22
But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly

LOL..i thought you said you agreed with Paul in Galatians.

what about Jesus?

John 4:21
"Woman," Jesus replied, "believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.

Galatians 4
21Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.
27For it is written,

“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”

28Now you,f brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.


was Paul blaspheming?
please get back to me on this one if you would.

But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.”
 

Drett

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2013
1,663
38
48
#34
Why don't you stop talking and go study the core elements of Islam vs those of Christianity?
Hi

Can I have the website please where you get this information from.
 

Markum1972

Senior Member
Mar 25, 2013
1,165
32
48
#36
Hebrews 12:22
But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly

LOL..i thought you said you agreed with Paul in Galatians.

what about Jesus?

John 4:21
"Woman," Jesus replied, "believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.

Galatians 4
21Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.
27For it is written,

“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”

28Now you,f brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.


was Paul blaspheming?
please get back to me on this one if you would.

But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.”
Nothing you posted opposes what God said when He called Mount Zion His and said to keep it holy.

John 4:21

"Woman," Jesus replied, "believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.

This has partially come to pass as the Dome of the Rock now sits on Mount Zion and hinders worship there. Yet many still go there to worship the Father. There is coming a day very soon when this shall not be. Who do you think will be responsible?

Matthew 24
[SUP]15 [/SUP]When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Jesus was not talking about the New Jerusalem. It will not be here yet. So then where is this holy place?

You posted it right there above plain to see. She (Hagar and her son) are to be cast out. This IS Islam.
Read Joel chapter 3. It talks about the time leading up to the day of the Lord as well as the day of the Lord. It talks about Jerusalem and Judah both being taken captive. It also talks about God liberating both Jerusalem and Judah.

Again in Zephaniah 3
And again in Zechariah 14
Also look at what the heathen do near the day of the Lord in the vision given to the prophet Obadiah.
There are many more and I will post them upon request.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#37
Nothing you posted opposes what God said when He called Mount Zion His and said to keep it holy.
John 4:21
"Woman," Jesus replied, "believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.

This has partially come to pass as the Dome of the Rock now sits on Mount Zion and hinders worship there. Yet many still go there to worship the Father. There is coming a day very soon when this shall not be. Who do you think will be responsible?
jews don't worship the Father.
Jesus said if they don't acknowledge Him they don't have the Father.
why don't you people believe Jesus?

NO ONE who denies the Son has the Father.

??
partially come to pass?
where will people worship?
in a Temple?

after they blow up the Dome of the Rock?
i would want to see where there is to be another Temple.

if no temple, where do people worship?

do billion(s?) of people gather in little Jerusalem?
really?


John 4
16Jesus said to her, “Go, call your husband, and come here.” 17The woman answered him, “I have no husband.” Jesus said to her, “You are right in saying, ‘I have no husband’; 18for you have had five husbands, and the one you now have is not your husband. What you have said is true.” 19The woman said to him, “Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet. 20Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you say that in Jerusalem is the place where people ought to worship.” 21Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. 24God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” 25The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things.” 26Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am he.”


Matthew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Jesus was not talking about the New Jerusalem. It will not be here yet. So then where is this holy place?
this was fulfilled in 70AD.
after Jesus came and the Spirit came, and jerusalem got 40 years to repent.

then Titus came.

Daniel 9
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

done.

You posted it right there above plain to see. She (Hagar and her son) are to be cast out. This IS Islam.
no it isn't.
it's Christianity and unbelieving Israel.
New Covenant making the Old obsolete.

it's both a warning and a reminder - that going to Law will severe anyone from Christ, since the Old Covenant was fulfilled by Christ, the Old Covenant - unbelieving Jerusalem which then was, was bearing children for slavery (refusing to come out from under the Law and be saved)....JEWS...not Islam.

Paul used Hagar and Sarah as a ALLEGORY.

two covenants - the Old (Law/slavery)/unbelieving jews VS the New (Christ/freedom/faith)/christians (jews & gentiles).

one is death and slavery and will not inherit - unbelieving jews, Old Covenant because there is no more Old Covenant.

the other is promise and freedom and life - believing jews and gentiles, because there is only One Covenant.

Jesus.

old jerusalem/Law compared to HAGAR (bond woman, never to inherit like Isaac)

jerusalem above compared to Sarah (miraculous birth, by faith and unconditional promise)

unbelieving jews/old coveant - CAST OUT....will not inherit.

believing jews and gentiles children of the promise (LIKE isaac)

this is an allegory.

it has NOTHING TO DO WITH ISLAM.

please read it again.


Galatians 4

21Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.
27For it is written,

“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”

28Now you,f brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#38
John 4:21
"Woman," Jesus replied, "believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.



jews don't worship the Father.
Jesus said if they don't acknowledge Him they don't have the Father.
why don't you people believe Jesus?

NO ONE who denies the Son has the Father.

??
partially come to pass?
where will people worship?
in a Temple?

after they blow up the Dome of the Rock?
i would want to see where there is to be another Temple.

if no temple, where do people worship?

do billion(s?) of people gather in little Jerusalem?
really?


John 4
16Jesus said to her, “Go, call your husband, and come here.” 17The woman answered him, “I have no husband.” Jesus said to her, “You are right in saying, ‘I have no husband’; 18for you have had five husbands, and the one you now have is not your husband. What you have said is true.” 19The woman said to him, “Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet. 20Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you say that in Jerusalem is the place where people ought to worship.” 21Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. 24God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” 25The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things.” 26Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am he.”




this was fulfilled in 70AD.
after Jesus came and the Spirit came, and jerusalem got 40 years to repent.

then Titus came.

Daniel 9
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

done.



no it isn't.
it's Christianity and unbelieving Israel.
New Covenant making the Old obsolete.

it's both a warning and a reminder - that going to Law will severe anyone from Christ, since the Old Covenant was fulfilled by Christ, the Old Covenant - unbelieving Jerusalem which then was, was bearing children for slavery (refusing to come out from under the Law and be saved)....JEWS...not Islam.

Paul used Hagar and Sarah as a ALLEGORY.

two covenants - the Old (Law/slavery)/unbelieving jews VS the New (Christ/freedom/faith)/christians (jews & gentiles).

one is death and slavery and will not inherit - unbelieving jews, Old Covenant because there is no more Old Covenant.

the other is promise and freedom and life - believing jews and gentiles, because there is only One Covenant.

Jesus.

old jerusalem/Law compared to HAGAR (bond woman, never to inherit like Isaac)

jerusalem above compared to Sarah (miraculous birth, by faith and unconditional promise)

unbelieving jews/old coveant - CAST OUT....will not inherit.

believing jews and gentiles children of the promise (LIKE isaac)

this is an allegory.

it has NOTHING TO DO WITH ISLAM.

please read it again.


Galatians 4

21Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.
27For it is written,

“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”

28Now you,f brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.


Paul made the bold claim, as did Jesus, that unbelieving jews were the persecutors of Christians (jew and gentile)

"he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now."

you decide if anything has changed.
why don't people believe the Bible?
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#39
I commend you dear for your kindness and patience:eek: