God's freewill vs. Mankind's election

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One would be - "faith without works is dead".
- - - - Just a starter for you, .....to prime the pump (so to speak).

Needless to say all these verses are addressing saved Christians.
- - - - See difference between saved(redemption) and working out your own salvation(sanctification).
 
RickShafer said:
Are you serious? (I'm so very afraid)
Can you think of one scripture? (I can think of many to reinforce your viewpoint).
- - - But you can't think of one?
Come on Abiding, ......please!?
Click to expand...

you dont really know my viewpoint. And this is your thread. what is up with
you not answering me when im right on point?
 
RickShafer said:
One would be - "faith without works is dead".
- - - - Just a starter for you, .....to prime the pump (so to speak).

Needless to say all these verses are addressing saved Christians.
- - - - See difference between saved(redemption) and working out your own salvation(sanctification).
Click to expand...

Rick your way off...you havnt a clue what my theology is.
 
Another would be - "lest I having preached to others, should become a castaway."
Seems slightly like saved by your own works doesn't it?
It would be except it was said by the man who was on the Damascus road to persecute
christians when he was accosted by the Spirit of God, and he(blinded), heard Jesus speaking.....
And was blind for a time until someone prayed for him(Ananias).
Hardly sounds like one's own accounting for the righteousness(faith) they had received on that road does it?
Or did he still need help?
Did the writer of half the books in the N.T. still need help after his conversion?
And if he did, - - - - why? - - - - Since it was his own faith in Jesus Christ he was attesting to?
Why Ananias? Where comes the help to one who sought to cleanse the world of 'christianity' by his faith in God?
 
Abiding said:
you dont really know my viewpoint. And this is your thread. what is up with
you not answering me when im right on point?
Click to expand...

It's impossible to answer,.......since I don't know it and you haven't provided any scripture for what your veiw possibly is.
(I gave you helps to what I think it is, but with no scripture from you it truly does become weird.)
 
RickShafer said:
One would be - "faith without works is dead".
- - - - Just a starter for you, .....to prime the pump (so to speak).

Needless to say all these verses are addressing saved Christians.
- - - - See difference between saved(redemption) and working out your own salvation(sanctification).
Click to expand...

Perhaps, and I offer this as a suggestion, the fact we believe in God without evidence is an act of faith in itself. Then as we grow in the Christian life, so too our faith grows stronger. Now whether that initial belief in God comes from within ourselves or is God given I cannot say, but I do know that people have all sorts of often strange beliefs, that are certainly not of God, so on that basis I suggest we can believe in anything we like, including God without any promptings from Him?
 
Abiding said:
you dont really know my viewpoint. And this is your thread. what is up with
you not answering me when im right on point?
Click to expand...

This IS my thread, and I don't know your viewpoint,.....you never stated it.
You say you are right on point without providing one scintilla of scripture.
Man,......this is a bible forum.
Please provide your theology, - (using the Bible).
 
RickShafer said:
Another would be - "lest I having preached to others, should become a castaway."
Seems slightly like saved by your own works doesn't it?
Click to expand...

No. Why would one think that. that is not even context of the passage.
It would be except it was said by the man who was on the Damascus road to persecute
christians when he was accosted by the Spirit of God, and he(blinded), heard Jesus speaking.....
And was blind for a time until someone prayed for him(Ananias).
Hardly sounds like one's own accounting for the righteousness(faith) they had received on that road does it?
Or did he still need help?
Did the writer of half the books in the N.T. still need help after his conversion?
And if he did, - - - - why? - - - - Since it was his own faith in Jesus Christ he was attesting to?
Why Ananias? Where comes the help to one who sought to cleanse the world of 'christianity' by his faith in God?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, Paul did still have to make a free choice. He Also knew and believed everything Jesus said, Meaning he knew he was saved eternally. Not by his own works, but by his faith. It was God who would never leave him. thus since he did not work to earn salvation, he understood he never could lose it, we see this in his writings.


ps. welcome back :)
 
RickShafer said:
It's impossible to answer,.......since I don't know it and you haven't provided any scripture for what your veiw possibly is.
(I gave you helps to what I think it is, but with no scripture from you it truly does become weird.)
Click to expand...

Rick why the funny business? i asked if a man had any say so. thats it
youve never asked me to tell you anything that had to do with what i believed
you just acted like a weird phychic. And still are
 
RickShafer said:
This IS my thread, and I don't know your viewpoint,.....you never stated it.
You say you are right on point without providing one scintilla of scripture.
Man,......this is a bible forum.
Please provide your theology, - (using the Bible).
Click to expand...

who are you to demand from me anything rick, stop your games
 
Nice to talk to you again E.G.
Why do you say "unfortunately" concerning Saul of Taursus' conversion?
Do you think being blind for a time after hearing the voice of God might have changed him?
- Just a question.
 
RickShafer said:
It's impossible to answer,.......since I don't know it and you haven't provided any scripture for what your veiw possibly is.
(I gave you helps to what I think it is, but with no scripture from you it truly does become weird.)
Click to expand...

Jesus said, He who believes is not condemned, He who does not believe is condemned already.

Scripture says whoever calls on the name of the lord shall be saved.

It says repent and be converted

It says whoever believes will have eternal life

I can go on and on and on. But you get the jist. How can one do this if they do not have free will to believe to eternal life, or not believe to eternal death.
 
RickShafer said:
Nice to talk to you again E.G.
Why do you say "unfortunately" concerning Saul of Taursus' conversion?
Do you think being blind for a time after hearing the voice of God might have changed him?
- Just a question.
Click to expand...

I think Saul knew scripture like the back of his hand.

I think he understood he was in error. and repented. like we all are to do.

I think his blindness was to prepair him to give up his life of power, riches and fame to live a life of being pour, being mocked, jailed, and alot of things we would not want to do, to do the work of God. Being blind had nothing to do with his salvation. or as you said, he would have earned it by suffering from blindness.
 
will he get an answer or the
images
 
eternally-gratefull said:

Jesus said, He who believes is not condemned, He who does not believe is condemned already.

Scripture says whoever calls on the name of the lord shall be saved.

It says repent and be converted

It says whoever believes will have eternal life

I can go on and on and on. But you get the jist. How can one do this if they do not have free will to believe to eternal life, or not believe to eternal death.
Click to expand...

They do have freewill in a sense.
Judas Iscariot had freewill in a sense.
He was with Jesus, he saw the miracles, - (probably one of the seventy He sent out),
but he was a thief and the holder of the bag.
He was also the disciple Jesus Himself said was "the son of perdition".
Freewill indeed. But not led by God.
God could have made robots, but He didn't.
It is a secret and sacred thing, but God chooses His own because without His grace - - - -
none of us would come to the cross. - "None are righteous, no not one".
(Which means none are able to receive His Holy blessing of forgiveness without the gift of faith.)
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
I think Saul knew scripture like the back of his hand.

I think he understood he was in error. and repented. like we all are to do.

I think his blindness was to prepair him to give up his life of power, riches and fame to live a life of being pour, being mocked, jailed, and alot of things we would not want to do, to do the work of God. Being blind had nothing to do with his salvation. or as you said, he would have earned it by suffering from blindness.
Click to expand...

Beautifully said,
Now, who gave him that blindness, himself or God?
 
Here I seem to be vs. the two: Abiding and E.G.
"Likes" to go around between them,......(but only them).
 
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