God's freewill vs. Mankind's election

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#81
#81
tribesman said:
Those who "chose" God did so because they were regenerated by Him. In their lost unregenerate state they didn't desire or want a single good thing of the God they saw as their enemy,
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Then how can the law be a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ. If the regenerate can not choose to know anything about God. they could not even begin to understand the law would lead them to Christ. Here you have people being regenerate, maybe taking days weeks, months or years to allow the law to show them their need, and for them to finally repent. How can one be made alive for this long without being justified of their sin?

bearing not the fruit of the Spirit but bearing fruit unto death. I know you don't fully agree on this tho (at least not as of now) bro, but that's another dime.
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No, I don;t agree. I see no logic, sense or truth in it..

As i said early, it is circular reasoning.

1. I can't chose God unless I am born again
2. I can not be born again until I have my sin removed, because until then, I am dead to sin

How can one ever chose God?
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#82
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
60
0
#82
The subject of this thread is God's freewill vs. mankind's election(of himself).
Every aspect of it is nothing more or less than a gift or curse from God.
And if you don't believe me, ask and it will be enlightened to you.
.......just ask.........I'm itching for someone to ask.......
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#83
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#83
RickShafer said:
The subject of this thread is God's freewill vs. mankind's election(of himself).
Every aspect of it is nothing more or less than a gift or curse from God.
And if you don't believe me, ask and it will be enlightened to you.
.......just ask.........I'm itching for someone to ask.......
Click to expand...
The subject of Ephesians 2:8-9 is SALVATION.

.
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#84
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
60
0
#84
E.G. Said - "Then how can the law be a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ. If the regenerate can not choose to know anything about God. they could not even begin to understand the law would lead them to Christ. Here you have people being regenerate, maybe taking days weeks, months or years to allow the law to show them their need, and for them to finally repent. How can one be made alive for this long without being justified of their sin?"

Who's saying the regenerate don't learn the law E.G.? - (Love the Lord your God with are you are; and love your neighbor as you love yourself).
Who is saying God doesn't even impact them,-(the regenerate;) enough to actually learn the ten commandments?
Would a regenerate murder? - A degenerate would by nature, but not a soul who has been regenerated.
The very law is written on their hearts.
The redeemed hunger and thirst for God's Word like a soul in a dry and thirsty land. - (this world)
The redeemed hunger and thirst to please Him,....and this is a reason they seek His Words, and seek His face.
...And it is by faith. - (and that not of themselves, it is a gift from God).
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#85
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
60
0
#85
PS said:
The subject of Ephesians 2:8-9 is SALVATION.

.
Click to expand...
"P.S.", I know what the subject of Ephesians 2:8-9 is.(That's why I referred to it)
Maybe you haven't read, the title of this thread is "God's freewill vs. mankind's election".
The very subject of the OP(which I am) is how salvation occurs.
SEE?
Get it?
(Not every thread on this christian site concerns gun control.) -
Get a grip.......
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#86
#86
RickShafer said:
Oh.....did I offend you?
Or did your own reliance on your freewill of faith?
Do you not know that faith is even a gift from God?
"that (faith) not of yourselves, lest any man should boast."
You said - "Do you have a problem? Faith comes from us? how? What did I do that I had faith in?"

But the bible says:
Ephesians 2:8-9King James Version (KJV) -

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
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why do you twist what the passage says.

we are saved. by grace. how?

By Faith?

or by works?


8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.



The gift of God is salvation in this context. Although yes, faith could be considered a gift also. if God did not offer us salvation based on his work. I would not have any faith in him, it would be impossible. as Paul said, OUR FAITH woiuld be in vien, and I would still be dead in my sin.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#87
#87
RickShafer said:
The subject of this thread is God's freewill vs. mankind's election(of himself).
Every aspect of it is nothing more or less than a gift or curse from God.
And if you don't believe me, ask and it will be enlightened to you.
.......just ask.........I'm itching for someone to ask.......
Click to expand...
I have asked. and the answer was not the way you think it is.
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#88
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#88
RickShafer said:
The subject of this thread is God's freewill vs. mankind's election(of himself).
Every aspect of it is nothing more or less than a gift or curse from God.
And if you don't believe me, ask and it will be enlightened to you.
.......just ask.........I'm itching for someone to ask.......
Click to expand...
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#89
#89
RickShafer said:
E.G. Said - "Then how can the law be a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ. If the regenerate can not choose to know anything about God. they could not even begin to understand the law would lead them to Christ. Here you have people being regenerate, maybe taking days weeks, months or years to allow the law to show them their need, and for them to finally repent. How can one be made alive for this long without being justified of their sin?"

Who's saying the regenerate don't learn the law E.G.? - (Love the Lord your God with are you are; and love your neighbor as you love yourself).
Who is saying God doesn't even impact them,-(the regenerate;) enough to actually learn the ten commandments?
Would a regenerate murder? - A degenerate would by nature, but not a soul who has been regenerated.
The very law is written on their hearts.
The redeemed hunger and thirst for God's Word like a soul in a dry and thirsty land. - (this world)
The redeemed hunger and thirst to please Him,....and this is a reason they seek His Words, and seek His face.
...And it is by faith. - (and that not of themselves, it is a gift from God).
Click to expand...
you continue to twist things. People knew murder was sin before the law was given, it was written in their hearts. but we cannot be saved by the law can we? thus your point makes no sense.

the law is the SCHOOLMASTER which LEADS US TO CHRIST,

how? if the unregenerate could never be led to christ apart from regeneration?
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#90
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
60
0
#90
eternally-gratefull said:
why do you twist what the passage says.

we are saved. by grace. how?

By Faith?

or by works?


8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.



The gift of God is salvation in this context. Although yes, faith could be considered a gift also. if God did not offer us salvation based on his work. I would not have any faith in him, it would be impossible. as Paul said, OUR FAITH woiuld be in vien, and I would still be dead in my sin.
Click to expand...
E.G., the very act of faith,(and it is an act); is a gift.
Not of you or myself, lest you or me should boast.
Faith in Jesus Christ is a gift.
Many see Him as He is and even understand it's meaning-(death, burial, and resurrection) and relegate Him to a secondary dust bin in their lives.
Many, I say many do this.
 
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tribesman

tribesman

Senior Member
#91
Oct 13, 2011
4,622
282
83
#91
eternally-gratefull said:
Then how can the law be a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ. If the regenerate can not choose to know anything about God. they could not even begin to understand the law would lead them to Christ. Here you have people being regenerate, maybe taking days weeks, months or years to allow the law to show them their need, and for them to finally repent. How can one be made alive for this long without being justified of their sin?



No, I don;t agree. I see no logic, sense or truth in it..

As i said early, it is circular reasoning.

1. I can't chose God unless I am born again
2. I can not be born again until I have my sin removed, because until then, I am dead to sin

How can one ever chose God?
Click to expand...
The Q is how the unregenerate (who are in the flesh) at any time can have the characteristics of the regenerate (who are in the Spirit) and be pleasing to God while yet in their lost state. How they, while bearing fruit unto death (Rom.7:5), yet may show forth fruit of the Spirit, such as meekness and faith (Gal.5:22-23). How is this possible? It cannot be! Give this a thought or two, bro. Peace out.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#92
#92
RickShafer said:
E.G., the very act of faith,(and it is an act); is a gift.
Click to expand...
yet this is NOT what the passage says, it says salvation is a gift. which is given to those who have faith. not to those who attempt to work for it.. Are you going to deny this?
Not of you or myself, lest you or me should boast.
Click to expand...
This is not a reference to faith, this is a reference to how we are saved. Your twisting the meaning of the passage.

Faith in Jesus Christ is a gift.
Many see Him as He is and even understand it's meaning-(death, burial, and resurrection) and relegate Him to a secondary dust bin in their lives.
Many, I say many do this.
Click to expand...

I agree. They have mere belief, which did not come from true repentance. Thus they did not have true faith, which means they were never saved.

we are saved by faith, of one does not have true faith which comes from true repentnance. how can they then be saved? they can't
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#93
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#93
RickShafer said:
"P.S.", I know what the subject of Ephesians 2:8-9 is.(That's why I referred to it)
Maybe you haven't read, the title of this thread is "God's freewill vs. mankind's election".
The very subject of the OP(which I am) is how salvation occurs.
SEE?
Get it?
(Not every thread on this christian site concerns gun control.) -
Get a grip.......
Click to expand...
If you think I have been talking about gun control on this thread it is you who needs to get a grip and give up the error of reformed heresy.
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#94
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#94
PS said:
give up the error of reformed heresy.
Click to expand...
you're contradicting yourself in every thread.
if you want to say which denomination you adhere to, please do.
if your claim is no denomination, i say rub
ish.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#95
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#95
zone said:
you're contradicting yourself in every thread.
if you want to say which denomination you adhere to, please do.
if your claim is no denomination, i say rub
ish.
Click to expand...
I'm Christian, not reformed, Colt or Smith & Wesson.
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#96
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
60
0
#96
Since it seems important for you to parse my statements, I will divide yours accordingly.

yet this is NOT what the passage says, it says salvation is a gift. which is given to those who have faith. not to those who attempt to work for it.. Are you going to deny this?
Yes I will. You misread. The Apostle obviously stated that the very act of believing(itself) was a gift from God. - (Faith also being a gift)


This is not a reference to faith, this is a reference to how we are saved. Your twisting the meaning of the passage.
Really? What do you think "and that not of yourselves" means coming after "by grace are you saved through faith"? - Do you think the Apostle was addressing grace? - O.K.-
Grace for what? Grace for what? The believing that Jesus is Lord? Perhaps that? - Or is it grace that He lived a perfect life and died,............but it is up to you to believe?
C'mon!

I agree. They have mere belief, which did not come from true repentance. Thus they did not have true faith, which means they were never saved.

we are saved by faith, of one does not have true faith which comes from true repentnance. how can they then be saved? they can't
Repentance is a gift. - - - - Do not you understand that? - - - Do you think you are good enough to repent? - - - - It's not going to happen man! - - - Not without faith -- which also is a derivative of unmerited favor-(grace)!
If the the greatest, most beautiful of God's created beings(Satan) was not able to ascend the heights of the Holy Mountain once he was cast out - Ezekiel 28:14; Isaiah 14:14.
How much less us after we have fallen.

Do you want scriptures?
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#97
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#97
PS said:
I'm Christian
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is Armstrongism Christian?
or is there some other set of teachings you have switched to?
(stop bringing guns into it - your agenda is showing)
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#98
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#98
zone said:
is Armstrongism Christian?
or is there some other set of teachings you have switched to?
(stop bringing guns into it - your agenda is showing)
Click to expand...
I follow a religion of peace. THIS ONE.
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#99
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#99
PS said:
I follow a religion of peace. THIS ONE.
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lovely.
but why not go all the way to the True Christ (Whom you will not find in the Jefferson Bible):

The Jefferson Bible, or The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth as it is formally titled, was a book constructed by Thomas Jefferson in the latter years of his life by cutting and pasting numerous sections from the New Testament as extractions of the doctrine of Jesus. Jefferson's condensed composition is especially notable for its exclusion of all miracles by Jesus and most mentions of the supernatural, including sections of the four gospels which contain the Resurrection and most other miracles, and passages indicating Jesus was divine.[1][2][3][4]
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#100
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#100
zone said:
lovely.
but why not go all the way to the True Christ (Whom you will not find in the Jefferson Bible):

The Jefferson Bible, or The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth as it is formally titled, was a book constructed by Thomas Jefferson in the latter years of his life by cutting and pasting numerous sections from the New Testament as extractions of the doctrine of Jesus. Jefferson's condensed composition is especially notable for its exclusion of all miracles by Jesus and most mentions of the supernatural, including sections of the four gospels which contain the Resurrection and most other miracles, and passages indicating Jesus was divine.[1][2][3][4]
Click to expand...
Yes I go all the way, no wrong turnings to say hello to Calvin and shoot deer on the way.
 
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