Consequences of not believing in the trinity

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Sharp

Senior Member
May 5, 2009
2,574
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Good evening everyone.

I am a believer in the trinity. I believe that Jesus is God.

I would like to hear from people who also believe in the trinity. I don't mean to be rude but I'm not intersted in hearing or discussing alternative views/models.


What I would like to know (from people who believe in the trinity) is what are the consequences of not believing in it? Do you think a person can be a Christian without believing in it? How should we treat others who believe in Jesus but don't believe he is God, with regard to unequal yoking of friendships and relationships? What does it say about a person's spiritual life if they don't believe in the trinity?


Thankyou

Sharp
 
Michael Servatus was burned at the stake for denying the Trinity and Infant Baptism.




On 16 February 1553, Michael Servetus while in Vienne, was denounced as a heretic by Guillaume de Trie, a rich merchant who had taken refuge in Geneva, and a very good friend of Calvin,[20] in a letter sent to a cousin, Antoine Arneys, who was living in Lyon. On behalf of the French inquisitor Matthieu Ory, Michael Servetus and Balthasard Arnollet, the printer of Christianismi Restitutio, were questioned, but they denied all charges and were released for lack of evidence. Arneys was asked by Ory to write back to De Trie, demanding proof. On 26 March 1553, the letters sent by Michel to Calvin and some manuscript pages of Christianismi Restitutio were forwarded to Lyon by De Trie. On 4 April 1553 Michael de Villanueva was arrested by Roman Catholic authorities, and imprisoned in Vienne. Servetus escaped from prison three days later. On 17 June, Michel de Villeneuve was convicted of heresy, "thanks to the 17 letters sent by Jehan Calvin, preacher in Geneva"[21] and sentenced to be burned with his books. An effigy and his books were burned in his absence.
Meaning to flee to Italy, Servetus inexplicably stopped in Geneva, where Calvin and his Reformers had denounced him. On 13 August, he attended a sermon by Calvin at Geneva. He was arrested after the service[22] and again imprisoned. All his property was confiscated. Servetus claimed during this judgement he was arrested at an inn at Geneva. French Inquisitors asked that Servetus be extradited to them for execution. Calvin wanted to show himself as firm in defense of Christian orthodoxy as his usual opponents. "He was forced to push the condemnation of Servetus with all the means at his command."[22] Calvin's delicate health meant he did not personally appear against Servetus.[23] Nicholas de la Fontaine played the more active role in Servetus's prosecution and the listing of points that condemned him.
At his trial, Servetus was condemned on two counts, for spreading and preaching Nontrinitarianism and anti-paedobaptism (anti-infant baptism).[24] Of paedobaptism Servetus had said, "It is an invention of the devil, an infernal falsity for the destruction of all Christianity."[25] In the case the procureur général (chief public prosecutor) added some curious sounding accusations in the form of inquiries—the most odd sounding perhaps being, "whether he has married, and if he answers that he has not, he shall be asked why, in consideration of his age, he could refrain so long from marriage." To this oblique imputation about his sexuality, Servetus replied that rupture (inguinal hernia) had long since made him incapable of that particular sin. Another offensive question was "whether he did not know that his doctrine was pernicious, considering that he favours Jews and Turks, by making excuses for them, and if he has not studied the Koran in order to disprove and controvert the doctrine and religion that the Christian churches hold, together with other profane books, from which people ought to abstain in matters of religion, according to the doctrine of St. Paul."
Calvin believed Servetus deserving of death on account of what he termed as his "execrable blasphemies".[26] Calvin expressed these sentiments in a letter to Farel, written about a week after Servetus’ arrest, in which he also mentioned an exchange with Servetus. Calvin wrote:
...after he [Servetus] had been recognized, I thought he should be detained. My friend Nicolas summoned him on a capital charge, offering himself as a security according to the lex talionis. On the following day he adduced against him forty written charges. He at first sought to evade them. Accordingly we were summoned. He impudently reviled me, just as if he regarded me as obnoxious to him. I answered him as he deserved... of the man’s effrontery I will say nothing; but such was his madness that he did not hesitate to say that devils possessed divinity; yea, that many gods were in individual devils, inasmuch as a deity had been substantially communicated to those equally with wood and stone. I hope that sentence of death will at least be passed on him; but I desired that the severity of the punishment be mitigated.[27]
As Servetus was not a citizen of Geneva, and legally could at worst be banished, the government, in an attempt to find some plausible excuse to disregard this legal reality, had consulted with other Swiss Reformed cantons (Zürich, Bern, Basel, Schaffhausen.) They universally favoured his condemnation and suppression of his doctrine, but without saying how that should be accomplished.[28] Martin Luther had condemned his writing in strong terms. Servetus and Philip Melanchthon had strongly hostile views of each other. The party called the "Libertines", who were generally opposed to anything and everything John Calvin supported, were in this case strongly in favour of the execution of Servetus at the stake (while Calvin urged that he be beheaded instead). In fact, the council that condemned Servetus was presided over by Perrin (a Libertine) who ultimately on 24 October sentenced Servetus to death by burning for denying the Trinity and infant baptism.[29] When Calvin requested that Servetus be executed by decapitation as a traitor rather than by fire as a heretic, Farel, in a letter of 8 September, chided him for undue lenience.[30] The Geneva Council refused his request. On 27 October 1553 Servetus was burned at the stake just outside Geneva with what was believed to be the last copy of his book chained to his leg. Historians record his last words as: "Jesus, Son of the Eternal God, have mercy on me."[31]
Calvin agreed that those whom the ruling religious authorities determined to be heretics should be punished:
Whoever shall maintain that wrong is done to heretics and blasphemers in punishing them makes himself an accomplice in their crime and guilty as they are. There is no question here of man's authority; it is God who speaks, and clear it is what law he will have kept in the church, even to the end of the world. Wherefore does he demand of us a so extreme severity, if not to show us that due honor is not paid him, so long as we set not his service above every human consideration, so that we spare not kin, nor blood of any, and forget all humanity when the matter is to combat for His glory.[32]
Michael Servetus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
How does a person deny the Trinity?

Now it is written if you believe in the Father you believe in the Son and if you believe in the Son you will be Blessed with the Holy Spirit.
 
I have never come across anyone who rightly understood and accepted the triune nature regarding Father, Son and Holy Spirit AND had some other fundamental theological error.... that I know of. But not believing in the trinity does tend to distort everything else.

The bible doesn't say not to be "friends" with people... it's about fellowship among the body... where as you are commanded not to be in fellowship with heretics. You are committing a fraud if you are knowingly ignoring heresy for the sake of fellowship. YOU can't make people believe... but they should know where you stand regarding doctrine and you should not fellowship/worship with them.

YOU= any person found in this scenario.
 
As a doctrine it is disputable (meaning uncertain not, an error) frankly there are more important things to worry about. So if you are uncertain about the Trinity I would not condemn you. Because doubt is a valuable position from which faith arises. But should you go all the way and claim certainty in the negative, then you have a problem. Certainty drives out faith, so just hold it "loosely" in your mind, and allow the Holy Spirit to talk to you about it.

Those who claim to have "certainty" on this one either are extremely Holy or they are liars. Certainty is not the goal, faith is.
 
As a doctrine it is disputable (meaning uncertain not, an error) frankly there are more important things to worry about. So if you are uncertain about the Trinity I would not condemn you. Because doubt is a valuable position from which faith arises. But should you go all the way and claim certainty in the negative, then you have a problem. Certainty drives out faith, so just hold it "loosely" in your mind, and allow the Holy Spirit to talk to you about it.

Those who claim to have "certainty" on this one either are extremely Holy or they are liars. Certainty is not the goal, faith is.

Cool..im gona write this down and set it next to my screen for awhile.
ty cool paragraph writer:)
 
The consequences of not believing in the trinity will be the reward of becoming full sons of God. This doctrine amongst others like it are test doctrines. It is a man made doctrine designed to test the individual to prove what you believe. Search the scriptures for yourself to prove or disprove man made doctrines and you will find the truth. No where in the Word does God claim to be a trinity. The doctrine of the trinity limits God to a man made understanding of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. My bible says there is but one God, it does not say that there are 3 separate persons all in one anywhere. I believe this is man's attempt to put God inside of a box and label Him with human understanding. Prove what you believe by studying the Word so that you may be approved of Him.
 
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1Co 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Co 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
 
I have never come across anyone who rightly understood and accepted the triune nature regarding Father, Son and Holy Spirit AND had some other fundamental theological error.... that I know of. But not believing in the trinity does tend to distort everything else.

The bible doesn't say not to be "friends" with people... it's about fellowship among the body... where as you are commanded not to be in fellowship with heretics. You are committing a fraud if you are knowingly ignoring heresy for the sake of fellowship. YOU can't make people believe... but they should know where you stand regarding doctrine and you should not fellowship/worship with them.

YOU= any person found in this scenario.

Quite a few SDAs take Ellen white as a prophet.(SDAs belive in the trinity)
 
Good evening everyone.

I am a believer in the trinity. I believe that Jesus is God.

I would like to hear from people who also believe in the trinity. I don't mean to be rude but I'm not intersted in hearing or discussing alternative views/models.


What I would like to know (from people who believe in the trinity) is what are the consequences of not believing in it? Do you think a person can be a Christian without believing in it? How should we treat others who believe in Jesus but don't believe he is God, with regard to unequal yoking of friendships and relationships? What does it say about a person's spiritual life if they don't believe in the trinity?


Thankyou

Sharp

I believe God is simultaneously a Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, like a man can simultaneously be a father, son, and husband. I suppose people get tired of hearing me say that, but it keeps coming up.
 
Good evening everyone.

I am a believer in the trinity. I believe that Jesus is God.

I would like to hear from people who also believe in the trinity. I don't mean to be rude but I'm not intersted in hearing or discussing alternative views/models.


What I would like to know (from people who believe in the trinity) is what are the consequences of not believing in it? Do you think a person can be a Christian without believing in it? How should we treat others who believe in Jesus but don't believe he is God, with regard to unequal yoking of friendships and relationships? What does it say about a person's spiritual life if they don't believe in the trinity?


Thankyou

Sharp


True worshipers worship the Father, Son and Spirit.
 
@Sharp

I don't know what the original audio is from, but I think this is a good summary.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTesoJnxjKY[/video]

Start it at 2:38.
 
I believe God is simultaneously a Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, like a man can simultaneously be a father, son, and husband. I suppose people get tired of hearing me say that, but it keeps coming up.

He said no alternates. You are describing a heresy called "Modalism."
 
I have never come across anyone who rightly understood and accepted the triune nature regarding Father, Son and Holy Spirit AND had some other fundamental theological error.... that I know of. But not believing in the trinity does tend to distort everything else.

The bible doesn't say not to be "friends" with people... it's about fellowship among the body... where as you are commanded not to be in fellowship with heretics. You are committing a fraud if you are knowingly ignoring heresy for the sake of fellowship. YOU can't make people believe... but they should know where you stand regarding doctrine and you should not fellowship/worship with them.

YOU= any person found in this scenario.

Thankyou for being the one person out of 12 respondents who understood that I wasn't seeking to debate the trinity!!! lol.

Your response was helpful - thankyou :)

I know a person who is an ex-Mormon, who denounces mormonism and claims to be a Christian, yet denies the trinity (as Mormons do). I just have a feeling that because of this, this person may not be all the way there yet. As a result, I'm not sure how to approach this person - whether to associate with them, get to know them better, etc.
 
I like how you put that... "not all the way there yet". It shows you recognize renewing of the mind takes time and that is very GOOD!
 
The NT is clear that we need to worship God as He has revealed Himself – which is Triune.

Paul clearly distanced himself from his unbelieving Jewish brethren by his following belief declaration:


But I confess this to you that according to the Way, which they say is a sect, so I worship the ancestral God believing all things according to that having been written in the Law and the Prophets, having hope toward God, which these themselves also admit, of a resurrection being about to be of the dead, both of just and unjust ones. (Acts 24.14)

Clearly, Paul builds upon the previous Hebrew prophets and is now able to worship God properly ‘according to The Way’ and according to that which had previously been written in the Torah and the prophets.

Obviously, Paul is able to see what his Jewish brethren have missed. Jews have been in denial of proper worship of God – and ‘The Way’ has laid the foundation for proper worship to God.

Proper worship of God:

But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. For the Father also seeks such, the ones worshiping Him. God is spirit, and the ones worshiping Him must worship in spirit and truth.(John 4.23 - 24)


This proper worship is as a Triune entity:

• Father
• Son (Truth)
• Spirit


Further, the Book of Revelation shows us clearly the deity interchangeability between Father, Son and Spirit and amply demonstrates that each receives worship as the one God.
 
I like how you put that... "not all the way there yet". It shows you recognize renewing of the mind takes time and that is very GOOD!



How far should a person go in decling to have fellowship with a person who doesn't share their exact beliefs?

How different do a person's beliefs have to be for you to avoid fellowship with them?
 
How far should a person go in decling to have fellowship with a person who doesn't share their exact beliefs?

How different do a person's beliefs have to be for you to avoid fellowship with them?

I am going to go out on a limb her and suggest that... perhaps God has positioned you to be a witness to this person. If you are attending a "church" where the fellowship believes in the trinity... and this person attends, then the correction or discipline for this persons error is the responsibility of the church leadership. It is okay for you to be friendly with this person. If you both are not attending the same fellowship... it is still okay with you to be friends with this person. if you are intended by God to "sow seeds" into this person then opportunites to do that will occur kinda "naturally". If your relationship with this person tends to focus on your opposing views and he is obstinent about trying to unconvince you about the trinity, it is okay to say no thank you because you don't have to be doing battle that way. God is a gentleman, the holy spirit woos externally and our job as believers is to pray, sow the seeds , give support and teach right theology. You can't be the Holy Spirit for that person... please do not feel over responsible... if the relatinship tips the scales into unhealthy or becomes a battleground... it is no longer a representation of friendship... it is then proper to break ties.
 
How far should a person go in decling to have fellowship with a person who doesn't share their exact beliefs?

How different do a person's beliefs have to be for you to avoid fellowship with them?

oh second part of question...

well....I have taken grace into considertion with this scenario... I understand it is a trinity issue so being aware is a good thing.
We can have "friends" in all walks of life... but it is important to be aware of the other beliefs and calibrate the degree of closeness/ "intimacy" we allow that person in or lives. Does that help?
 
Do not be deceived by those that manipulate the Truth.

The catholic church does not worship Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah in Spirit and Truth.

They will have you do things that are abominable to Yahvah God.

Complete and utter manipulation.