Three Days and Three Nights

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rstrats

Senior Member
#1
Aug 28, 2011
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#1
Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a "discussion" with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that the phrase "x" days and "x"nights was ever used in the first century or before when it didn’t include at least parts of the "x" days and at least parts of the "x" nights?
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#2
#2
rstrats said:
Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a "discussion" with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that the phrase "x" days and "x"nights was ever used in the first century or before when it didn’t include at least parts of the "x" days and at least parts of the "x" nights?
Click to expand...

Does it really matter how the Jews of Jesus day counted a day? Let's not forget all of the rules they put in place concerning God's sabbath day; rules that God NEVER gave to them, but yet they tried to enforce.

Let's go to the source and find out how many hours God says there are in a day;

John 11
[9] Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.

Now unless during Christ time there was LESS that 12hrs in a night that would mean that a full day consisted of 24hrs. Now let's read how long GOD, not man said He would be in the grave;

Matt.12
[40] For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

So.....we already know how long God said a day consisted of; "...Are there not twelve hours in the day...", so let's just go with that. Let's say that Jesus was speaking of 3 consecutive periods all consisting of 12hrs, or 3 'days', or 36hrs.

If He was in the grave before sunset, which God's law said He had to be, AND if that day was Friday as man claims, then from sunset Fri. to sunset. Sat would be 24hrs. That leaves us (1) 12hr period left.

And from sunset Sat to sunrise Sun. would be the other 12hr. period.

BUT........did Jesus rise at sunrise? Let's read of the account.....


John 20
[1] The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
[2] Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.

So Jesus was out of the grave BEFORE sunrise. So that would mean he was NOT in the grave for a full 36hr period. And since it was Jesus that said there are 12hrs. in a day either He lied or man has something wrong.


Please note.....I didn't even take into account of the THREE NIGHTS that Jesus also spoke about.

There is no way that Jesus could have been in the grave for, as He said, "...so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.", if the day He was buried was on a Friday.

You can't even get 36hrs and still align with scripture; that being He was out of the grave BEFORE sunrise, "...when it was yet dark..."


So again.....does it really matter what the Jews of Jesus day or ANY day counted a day?

God said there are 12 hours in a day, not one second more, not one second less.

And when I last counted.....that would mean there are also 12 hours in s night; that gives us a total of 24 hours.


.
 
R

rstrats

Senior Member
#3
Aug 28, 2011
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#3
Eccl12and13,

re: "Does it really matter how the Jews of Jesus day counted a day?"

It does to the folks who argue for a 6th day crucifixion. Do you have any information asked for in the OP?
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#4
#4
rstrats said:
Eccl12and13,

re: "Does it really matter how the Jews of Jesus day counted a day?"

It does to the folks who argue for a 6th day crucifixion. Do you have any information asked for in the OP?
Click to expand...

I presented the word of God. I presented the fact that the Jews of the day ADDED laws to God's laws that God never said. I presented scriptures where the God of the world says there are 12 hours in a day. I presented, based on what that same God said, that it is impossible for ANYONE to get a Fri. burial, and a Sun. morning raising, using what God tells us; "...Are there not twelve hours in the day?...".

I now present this....

Deut.8
[3] And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

Matt.4
[4] But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

2 Tim.3
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

God's word tells us that ALL of our doctrine is to come from one place; "...ALL scripture...", and that would be from Gen. thru Rev.


With that being said AND knowing God's word I also presented the question,


"Does it really matter how the Jews of Jesus day counted a day?"


Do we use the Jewish idiom of the day, or do we use, "... every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God..." and "...All scripture..." for our doctrine?


Do you have any information asked for in the OP?


.
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#5
#5
I was taught in Latin class that this is kind of how the Romans counted all the time; they counted the beginning and end of a series. Jesus died before sunset on Firday ( 1day), in the tomb Friday night to Saturday night (Jews count days from sunset to sunset), and He rose after Saturday sunset, thus on Sunday. We still do it in music. C to E is called a third, though by our way of counting, it is two notes higher. I do not know any specific examples from ancient Rome off hand.

Curiously, we do the opposite going from BC to AD. There is no year 0, so 1BC to 1AD is only one year.
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#6
#6
kenisyes said:
I was taught in Latin class that this is kind of how the Romans counted all the time; they counted the beginning and end of a series. Jesus died before sunset on Firday ( 1day), in the tomb Friday night to Saturday night (Jews count days from sunset to sunset), and He rose after Saturday sunset, thus on Sunday.
Click to expand...
Again.....do we go with what the Romans did...or do we go with what the one that will judge all of mankind says?


How many hours did Christ say there are in a day?

John 11
[9] Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.


If you just count the days that Christ says He will be in the grave, (3), or (3) twelve hour periods, which comes to 36 hours and NOT include the (3) nights...is it possible to get a full 36 hours with a Fri. sunset burial and a Sun. raising while it was yet dark, or BEFORE sunrise?

Did Jesus lie when He said there are 12 hours in a day? Or did He lie when He said that He would be in the grave for 3 days AND 3 nights?


Or better yet....why not just ask this question;

"How many total hours did Jesus say He would be in the grave"

Was it 36hrs? Less than 36hrs? Greater than 36hrs? Or was it another number altogether?


.
 
R

rstrats

Senior Member
#7
Aug 28, 2011
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#7
Ecc12and13,

re: "Do you have any information asked for in the OP?"

If I did, I wouldn’t have stated this topic.
 
WolfInOxHide

WolfInOxHide

Banned
#8
Jul 12, 2012
933
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0
#8
Yes, in ancient hebrew counting, any part of a period of time assigns the full value at the start until it is completed. The moment you come out of the womb, you are "one" year old.

"and the evening and the morning were the Xth day" - start counting at evening, beginning of day.

The moment Saturday begins, you say it is Saturday, even before it has come to completion.

It can be illustrated with 11:59 PM --> 12:00:00 AM.
It was eleven something all the way through 11's. The moment it becomes 12, it remains 12 something until all the way through 12's.

Don't let our concept of English grammar and math style counting steal the essence of the words.

Yeshua was in the grave for a full night ([Th]), a full day ([Fr]), a full night ([Fr]), a full day ([St]), a full night ([St]), and the moment of dawn ([Sn]), one sliver of visible sun was all that was required to mark day 3.

He arose on the first day of the week (Sunday), at dawn, though it had already been counted as the first day of the week since the previous sunset came to completion, "Saturday" night, the end of the sabbath.

This means He was crucified on "Thursday."
And resolves the "on" and "after" 3 days discrepancies.
THERE IS NO OTHER WAY to get 3 nights and 3 days, unless He was crucified in the middle of the night.
 
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Eccl12and13

Guest
#9
#9
WolfInOxHide said:
This means He was crucified on "Thursday."
And resolves the "on" and "after" 3 days discrepancies.
THERE IS NO OTHER WAY to get 3 nights and 3 days, unless He was crucified in the middle of the night.
Click to expand...
Now when you say Thursday, do you mean Wednesday at sunset?


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E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#10
#10
rstrats said:
Ecc12and13,

re: "Do you have any information asked for in the OP?"

If I did, I wouldn't have stated this topic.

Click to expand...
All I have is what I posted. Hope it helps.


.
 
R

RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#11
#11
rstrats said:
Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a "discussion" with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that the phrase "x" days and "x"nights was ever used in the first century or before when it didn’t include at least parts of the "x" days and at least parts of the "x" nights?
Click to expand...
i can do even better than that...it is used in the bible... study acts 10...and pay close attention to the passing and counting of days in that chapter...
 
WolfInOxHide

WolfInOxHide

Banned
#12
Jul 12, 2012
933
2
0
#12
Now when you say Thursday, do you mean Wednesday at sunset?
Click to expand...
Hung on pole Thursday, died Thursday afternoon, taken off pole and prepared for burial before sunset.
This daylight day, was the day of preparation for passover, passover begins at sunset, and no work is allowed once this sunset occurs. Therefore, to avoid work on sabbath, Joseph of A. requested body for prep.
Placed in tomb Thursday just before or at sunset, just before special passover sabbath. (note, you will see two "sabbaths" one special one, immediately followed the next day by the regular weekly one. Passover can start on any day, and creates an extra sabbath for that week if it isn't already on a Sabbath.
Sunset Thursday, night #1 is counted in advance and continues ~12 hrs until Friday dawn.
Friday dawn, day #1 is counted in advance and continues ~12 hrs
Friday sunset, night #2 is counted in advance and continues ~12 hrs
Saturday dawn, day #2 is counted in advance and continues ~12 hrs
Saturday sunset, night #3 is counted in advance and continues ~12 hrs
Sunday dawn, day #3 is counted in advance, the moment the sun breaks the horizon and He is risen
(He did not have to stay in there until Sunday sunset, because all 3 nights and 3 days have now been counted properly in hebrew style.)
1 millisecond of visible sun or less is all that would be required to count daybreak as day #3

Hope that makes it clearer. The only "trick" to counting to 3, is whether you count it in advance like they did, or after it is complete the way we must do in scientific calculations.
Counting math/science style would require Him to have gone into the tomb Thursday at dawn in order to squeeze in 3 days and nights before Sunday dawn.
Counting any later than Thursday at sunset, would fall short of 3.0 nights and 2.x (hebrew 3) days.

"And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on." does not refer to the weekly sabbath, but rather the first day of passover, a special sabbath, in this case, "friday". Modern christianity don't usually know this, and so they assume it must have happened all on friday, thinking saturday to be the only sabbath in play.

"And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you. And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread"
There can be a regular sabbath any day in between.

And the last supper occurred one evening early, Wednesday at Jesus' own special request. This is no problem, because man was not made for the sabbath, but the sabbath for man. :)
Scripture fails to record the bread as being unleavened, and even hints somewhere at the opposite in the choice of word used.

I'll even bet the Pharisee high priest cut that lamb's throat right at the moment Yeshua gave His last breath outside the city. And I wonder Thursday night, having seen all that he had seen and the events of the day: if that Pharisee high priest actually ate the lamb or ATE the "Lamb" that night.

There is MUCH more AWESOME detail regarding Yeshua's approach to the city, that only comes to life if you know how they celebrated passover. He hijacked the Pharisee's entry parade where they bring the lamb through the gate to the city. That's why they told His disciples to hush. It was a BIG deal to make that announcement, and they were announcing the "wrong lamb" in religious opinion, this announcement was one that spread person to person by ear-shot across the city, and the disciples basically "pulled the fire alarm."

SO rockin'.

Peace.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#13
Jul 2, 2011
21,465
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#13
rstrats said:
Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a "discussion" with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that the phrase "x" days and "x"nights was ever used in the first century or before when it didn’t include at least parts of the "x" days and at least parts of the "x" nights?
Click to expand...
It is always very important to watch closely what we count, have good reason for how we count, and to know with all certainty why we count.
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#14
#14
Eccl12and13 said:
Again.....do we go with what the Romans did...or do we go with what the one that will judge all of mankind says?
.
Click to expand...
The question was not what do we "go with". The question was: "I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that the phrase "x" days and "x"nights was ever used in the first century or before when it didn’t include at least parts of the "x" days and at least parts of the "x" nights?" I gave documentation to the contrary to help answer that question.
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#15
#15
WolfInOxHide said:
Yeshua was in the grave for a full night ([Th]), a full day ([Fr]), a full night ([Fr]), a full day ([St]), a full night ([St]), and the moment of dawn ([Sn]), one sliver of visible sun was all that was required to mark day 3.
Click to expand...
Are you saying He celebrated the Last Supper on Wednesday?
 
R

rstrats

Senior Member
#16
Aug 28, 2011
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#16
kenisyes,

re: " I do not know any specific examples from ancient Rome off hand."

OK, perhaps someone new looking in will have some documentation.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#17
Jul 2, 2011
21,465
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#17
A reference for you all. Please let me know what you determine from this, thank you....


Joh 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. (Was it a special Sabbath or the regular Sabbath?)

As far as I have learned, the weekly day of preparation would be Yom Sheshi, Friday until sundown.........please give me your counting, thanks again....
 
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rstrats

Senior Member
#18
Aug 28, 2011
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#18
RachelBibleStudent,

re: "...study Acts 10..."
　
I’m afraid I don’t see where Acts 10 says anything about a certain number of days AND a certain number of nights.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#19
Jul 2, 2011
21,465
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#19
I am going to attempt counting the days. The first day, yom sheshi, the second day, yom Shabbat, and the third day, yom rishon. The first day, daytime on Friday. The second day, Saturday, and the third day Sunday. How is this counting? Does it coincide with what you have studied?
 
Cobus

Cobus

Banned
#20
Feb 17, 2010
3,620
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#20
Yeah Wolfy you got it! As the evening presedes the day Jesus had His last supper just before He was arrested on THURSDAY EVENING... Or as we would say Wednesday around 8 PM. Actually it was the second hour of Thursday. As Thursday first hour starts at 6 pm sunset of Wednesday.
Now the first hour of Thursday (our Wednesday 6pm to 7 pm) Jesus and His disciples were in the upper room ready to share the last supper. Then they sung a hymn and they left for the mount of Olives I would reckon about 9pm our Wednesday but actually third hour on Thursday.
Around the 5th or 6th hour (Wednesday 11 pm 12 pm) they came to arrest Him. Then come the 12th hour, daybreak of Thursday (also our Thursday 6am) the chief priests held council and jesus was carried away to be trialed!
That day during the sun-hours Jesus was crucified, died and as WOLFY said, on or just before sunset (Friday evening) (our Thursday evening) Jesus was burried. So let us see in our days in BLUE and Jewish days in Red when what happened...
Wednesday evening Jesus went to the upper room with His disciples...
Thursday morning Jesus was trialed.
Thursday evening or just before Jesus was burried! So Thursday evening ....Grave Night #1
Friday morning and evening...Grave... Day # 1 Night #2
Saturday morning and evening.... Grave. Day#2 night#3
Sunday morning..... the THIRD DAY JESUS WAS UP AND ALIVE!!!!

Now for the Jewish days in RED
Thursday evening Jesus went to the upper room.
Thursday morning Jesus was trialed
Thursday day, Jesus was crucified and died and burried just before FRIDAY evening! So Friday evening night #1.
Friday morning..... Grave, Day#1
Saturday evening and day... Night #2 day #2
Sunday evening night #3 and Sunday morning... THE THIRD DAY JESUS WAS UP AND ALIVE

No matter how we count He did as the Bible SAID!!!
 
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