You still haven't concisely - and deliberately - put forth your understanding of scriptures of how these three, Father, Son and Holy Spirit came to be in the beginning (manifestation), where they are now (manifestation), and where they will be in the end (manifestation).
I do not mean location. I mean form, or manifestation. I mean whether in Spirit or in body, form, or in another?
I ask any christian with a trinitarian belief to clearly explain where each of these three persons of the Godhead can be found, how they originated and how they will be in future. I have already expressed my beliefs about how these came to be manifested, it would be nice if someone could explain their interpretation of the scripture instead of just using scripture which everyone reads but has different interpretations of. It seems like no one can quite clearly explain their own beliefs.
To be quite clear, I ask if the three distinct persons are all God, in what form or manner were they God ORIGINALLY? In agreement? In Spirit? In body? How?
To be quite clear, I ask were there three eternal spirits in the beginning or One? I ask were there three Fathers - Eternal beings- in the beginning or One? I ask if there is only One Father, at what point, according to your beliefs, did there become a Son, and a Holy Spirit? Please explain quite distinctly, like I have in previous posts.
To be quite clear, I ask where is the Father - Eternal being - when Jesus Christ is on the throne?
I ask why you would bow down - as every knee shall bow - to Jesus Christ if the Father - Eternal being - is seated next to Him and why you will not bow to the Father also? I also ask where is the Holy Spirit at the time?
To be quite clear, I ask how Jesus Christ can say that He is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last, and that before Abraham was I AM, if He was not?
To be quite clear, I ask who is the Bridegroom of the Bride mentioned in Rev 22? I further ask, how these two, Bridegroom and Bride be one - as what signifies a oneness. Think in terms of echad, a man and a wife becoming one. If echad is a plurality to describe three persons in the Godhead, does that mean the Bride is part of the Godhead too? Or does it mean that they are one in Spirit, because surely they are not One in flesh.
Following on, I ask, if the custom of the earthly bride is to take on the name of her earthly groom, what name should the Bride of Christ take on in the waters of baptism, signifying She is committing Herself to Him? Should She take on all three titles, or should She take on the name of Her future Husband?
In whose Name do we cast out devils? At whose Name will every knee bow and every tongue confess?
Whose Spirit is promised to dwell in His people, so they may be one, even as the Father and He are ONE (echad)?
Echad is the meaning of the term One in Deuteronomy 6:4.
4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
Echad is found hundreds of times in the scriptures and is used for a man and wife becoming one, and to describe one people, with one language.
It appears this One God is manifested in many ways, yet remains One. By Spirit? Yes by One Spirit are we all baptised into one body. God is an Eternal Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.
So is He three Spirits? He is One Spirit - and it pleased Him to dwell in fulness in Jesus Christ, and it also pleases Him to dwell in measure in His people. Making them part of the Godhead? No. They are not God though they have a measure of deity in them. Where is the fulness?
It is not at ANY OTHER NAME but Jesus Christ that every knee shall bow because He is the first and the last and there are no other gods beside Him.
Anyway, feel free to answer as best you can. For now, I am going to be silent on this matter because I am not here to convert. I wrote on this to defend my beliefs against being called 'heresy'.
Now, I am on the offense lol. I can link it to back in history to how the Apostles baptised in the name of Jesus Christ - there are manuscripts found before Nicaea that were published in the Time Magazine that say that they did it that way, there are scriptures which say they did it that way.
Nicaea was organised by a Roman Emperor who was not fully converted and He tried to mix paganism with Christianity and they organised and brought out one doctrine and a term 'trinity' and a belief that God is three distinct persons, and it was around the time of the Pergamos church age where God said He wasn't pleased with the church for taking on doctrines of the Nicolaitanes, which by reading Rev 2 you can see is the same thing God hated all the way through the church ages, and is the Roman catholic church before they were known as that and then later (who coincidentally follow the trinity and base most of their beliefs on Nicene creed) - and God likens it to what Balaam and Balak did, which you can read about in the story in OT, and references in NT which basically say that Balaam was offered money and position / power to curse God's people. And references in Jude (read the whole chapter) where it says
4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
And 2 Peter 2 the whole chapter refers to 1.
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And mentions what Balaam did, and goes on to say
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
As you know, the Nicaea council was formed to bring the christians out of the oppression of the Roman Empire by Constantine, however he wasn't fully converted, he had the best intentions, as did the people that attended, including many bishops and martyrs. The intentions were good but it was the first ecumenical church.
As you also may be aware, the Nicolaitanes are mentioned in the church of Ephesus scriptures, Rev 2, where God said the Ephesus church hates the Nicolaitanes, like He does.
Then moving on to the Pergamos church age, which was around the time of Nicaea Council, God addresses the Pergamos church and says they've taken on doctrines of the Nicolaitanes, which He hates.
The key is working out exactly who the Nicolaitanes are and what their doctrine was. Though there is debate about who they were, and outlandish stories about what their doctrine could've been, God gives clues in Rev 2, 2 Peter 2, and Jude.. and He says He hates them. But if you know much about history, or ask the Jews, they will say it was always monotheism for them, and polytheism crept into the churches.
Of course people say it was the other way around.
Anyway......... I'm leaving this thread for now. Don't miss me
