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Crossfire
Guest
I once saw a couple of word of faith people in a parking lot, talking among each other about how one of them getting a new car (a nice expensive one) was an answered prayer. I know for a fact these people could have easily afforded an average or multiple less than average, but adequate cars.
There were "poor" people present, not even noticed by the former.
Having said that, and knowing several of them locally, I can say that the "laypeople" are some of the nicest I have ever met. The upper members of the church however can be found weekly in the local jewelry store.
It makes me cringe to think of praying for a new expensive car for myself, or even expecting in advance that the Father would entertain such a prayer.
It makes me cringe to think that pastoral income could be spent on even the least of diamond earrings, and considered a gift from the Father.
Evil? well... at least, deceived.
There were "poor" people present, not even noticed by the former.
Having said that, and knowing several of them locally, I can say that the "laypeople" are some of the nicest I have ever met. The upper members of the church however can be found weekly in the local jewelry store.
It makes me cringe to think of praying for a new expensive car for myself, or even expecting in advance that the Father would entertain such a prayer.
It makes me cringe to think that pastoral income could be spent on even the least of diamond earrings, and considered a gift from the Father.
Evil? well... at least, deceived.
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1still_waters
Guest
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oopsies
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carey
Guest
From what i understand word of faith is based on metaphysical new age belief that we are all gods, or that we can be the same as God, and the name it & claim it b, there's alot more that's just the basics
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Crossfire
Guest
Accorcing to my research, the Word of Faith movement was conceived out of the belief that if a believer were to ask anything of God according to the will of God, that person will receive what they ask for (1st John 5:14), a principle which is entirely scriptural. They taught that we can know the will of God by reading and understanding the Word of God, thus when we pray according to the Word of God in faith, God will move on our behalf.
However, as the years have gone by and others have embraced this view, many have adopted some very extreme ideas and have attempted to twist scripture in order to justify those ideas. Any claims that the WOF movement was / is based on "new age mysticism" is nothing more than anti-charismatic rhetoric and hardly true.
However, as the years have gone by and others have embraced this view, many have adopted some very extreme ideas and have attempted to twist scripture in order to justify those ideas. Any claims that the WOF movement was / is based on "new age mysticism" is nothing more than anti-charismatic rhetoric and hardly true.
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Closemyeyes2cU
Guest
The Word of faith movement seems to put more emphasis on mans will being done instead of Gods will. They try and use faith as a weapon they can hold God hostage with in order to make him do what that want.
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greatblue
Guest
That is exactly right. The entire premise is built on the idea that God cannot take back what He said or did for us. I think Bill Johnson of Bethel Church / Jesus Culture is possibly one of the boldest of the bunch and he has made some outrageous claims.
Bill Johnson false teacher - YouTube
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Crossfire
Guest
Guys,
Might I suggest that we check ourselves to see if we are indeed approved by the scriptures before we attempt to pass judgement on others? You never know, it could be possible that we might hold to some sort of doctrine that is just as dangerous, if not more so, then those we are pointing the finger at.
The prosperity gospel is not the only self serving doctrine of compromise on the market these days. There are other self serving doctrines to be found in other denominations as well which are just as bad if not more so.
Might I suggest that we check ourselves to see if we are indeed approved by the scriptures before we attempt to pass judgement on others? You never know, it could be possible that we might hold to some sort of doctrine that is just as dangerous, if not more so, then those we are pointing the finger at.
The prosperity gospel is not the only self serving doctrine of compromise on the market these days. There are other self serving doctrines to be found in other denominations as well which are just as bad if not more so.
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carey
Guest
Look up kenneth copeland and binny hinn for yourself then you'll see, it's evil, and yes they do bring a metaphysical aspect into it, take the blinders off your eyes
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Ugly
Guest
Actually if you compare metaphysical based new age books like 'The Secret' you'll find nearly identical methods for obtaining getting anything you want. Both WOF and Secret type teachings encourage you to visualize what you want is (lose weight, mercedes, mansion, huge boat .. notice the emphasis on materialism), so visualize it in your mind, then 'speak it into existence'. By visualization, and speaking forth, you cause the physical 'force of faith' (this is having faith in faith, not faith in God) to make God do as we will Him to to, to give us what we want. God's will is forsaken for our wants. God is relegated to a genie designed to give us what we want, when we want, long as we visualize and speak it. This method is a new age method, and is also exactly the same concept as WOF. How you don't see the connection is beyond me.
WOF also teaches we are all small Gods. Or as Joyce Meyers put it, to paraphrase, 'big cows make little cows, then what does God make?'. The answer being 'little gods'. Mankind as small gods, another new age concept.
WOF also teaches God screwed up, lost control of earth to satan, tried his best to get back into earth but satan wouldn't allow Him. So finally, God had to get sneaky, made a deal with Abraham behind the devils back. Because Abraham gave God a break and agreed to work a deal with Him, the Jews became the chosen ones, and through this bloodline Jesus was born. Gods 'trick' or loophole to get around satans legal claim on earth.
Also Jesus is taught to have been dragged to hell, by demons, when he died on the cross. That he spent 3 days tortured in hell. He was referred to as 'an emaciated, poured out wormy little spirit' Thats how they described Jesus.
The weak and powerless God who's main job is to be our genie, and was powerless against satan for 100's of years is not the God of the bible that i believe in.
For more information on the subject, i suggest reading this awesome book..
Amazon.com: Christianity In Crisis: The 21st Century: Hank Hanegraaff: Books
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Crossfire
Guest
While I will agree that several modern WOF teachers have taken things a bit too far, anyone who has ever done any honest, unbiased research on the roots of the WOF movement knows that each of your points improperly represents what they believe. In fact, everything you have stated is nothing more than popular assumptions made those openly critical of the modern WOF movement and the reaso why I decided to research the movement for myself. However, it's impossible to accurately access what a doctrine really believes by just reading or listening to the critique of others concerning that doctrine. Like it or not, you must go to the source. Unfortunately many "Christians" today are indoctrinated into denominational bias thus they basically believe the hype that they've heard rather than actually taking the time to do the research.
What I find sad is that WOF seems to being going down the same road as Calvinism. Once John Calvin himself had died, the movement went south almost immediately. The same seems true of the WOF movement.
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RachelBibleStudent
Guest
the 'word of faith' movement is like most denominations and movements...they started with a scriptural truth...namely the reality of God's miraculous power which he uses for our good...and took that concept to an extreme...
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Ugly
Guest
Well, i have no denominational affiliation to be pushed by. Just the bible. Also, these 'popular assumptions' are actually recorded, researchable statements made my the most popular WOF preachers today.
I could go look into the roots, but why? Regardless of what the roots of the movement stem from, i'm looking at whats being taught TODAY. Because these are the teachings being taught in the here and now, and no matter how well intended or good the doctrine was in its beginning its not that way now. So why would i focus on the past and ignore the present?
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Ariel82
Guest
i was going to post something but ugly already said it clearer than i can articulate at the moment...
name it and claim is NOT scriptural because its based on man's wants and desires independent of God will for them and the world.
they don't ask God for what He wants them to do, but demand God bow to their wishes and lie to themselves and others to say that
God promised them wealth and peace and worldly comfort, when He never did in this life but in the life to come there will be eternal peace if you bear your burdens of long suffering and patience and walk with the Holy Spirit as Jesus did.
to claim arguments agaisnt the WOF movement as anticharismatic dogma i just bolony.
many charastmatic disown WOF as heretical as well.. its about discernment and these scriptures:
James 4
3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures. 4 Adulterers and[b] adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously”?
name it and claim is NOT scriptural because its based on man's wants and desires independent of God will for them and the world.
they don't ask God for what He wants them to do, but demand God bow to their wishes and lie to themselves and others to say that
God promised them wealth and peace and worldly comfort, when He never did in this life but in the life to come there will be eternal peace if you bear your burdens of long suffering and patience and walk with the Holy Spirit as Jesus did.
to claim arguments agaisnt the WOF movement as anticharismatic dogma i just bolony.
many charastmatic disown WOF as heretical as well.. its about discernment and these scriptures:
James 4
3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures. 4 Adulterers and[b] adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously”?
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Ariel82
Guest
Paul learned to be content rather he had food or not and praise God for whatever life throw at him
Jesus did not pray that stone turn to bread but that the will of God for man can not live on bread alone.
Jesus did not pray that stone turn to bread but that the will of God for man can not live on bread alone.
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Bea22
Guest
Sounds like there's a Truth behind the idea - scriptural Truth that WILL be fulfilled somehow, and that where there is Truth, there is obviously a false that rises up too, an impersonation. It is scriptural that if His Word abides in us we can ask what we will and it will be given. Obviously everyone wants to cash in on the promises - I hadn't heard of this one before.
There is truth to a lot of these ideas but yet there is a balance. We are NOT God, and yet, there are so many scriptures which say we shall be like Him. It def takes revelation to ascertain the correct balance of everything.
There is truth to a lot of these ideas but yet there is a balance. We are NOT God, and yet, there are so many scriptures which say we shall be like Him. It def takes revelation to ascertain the correct balance of everything.
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Ariel82
Guest
perhaps but personally i thank God when He delivers me from lies
not excuse my sins and wrongful thinking by tell God that that person is more deluded then I.
we are told not to think as the world does or to try and befreind or encourage lust of the eyes.
1 John 2:16
For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world.
Here is what I found on it....
Question: "Is the Word of Faith movement biblical?"
Answer: Word of Faith teaching is decidedly unbiblical. It is not a denomination and does not have a formal organization or hierarchy. Instead, it is a movement that is heavily influenced by a number of high-profile pastors and teachers such as Kenneth Hagin, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Paul and Jan Crouch, and Fred Price.
The Word of Faith movement grew out of the Pentecostal movement in the late 20th century. Its founder was E. W. Kenyon, who studied the metaphysical New Thought teachings of Phineas Quimby. Mind science (where "name it and claim it" originated) was combined with Pentecostalism, resulting in a peculiar mix of orthodox Christianity and mysticism. Kenneth Hagin, in turn, studied under E. W. Kenyon and made the Word of Faith movement what it is today. Although individual teachings range from completely heretical to completely ridiculous, what follows is the basic theology most Word of Faith teachers align themselves with.
At the heart of the Word of Faith movement is the belief in the "force of faith." It is believed words can be used to manipulate the faith-force, and thus actually create what they believe Scripture promises (health and wealth). Laws supposedly governing the faith-force are said to operate independently of God's sovereign will and that God Himself is subject to these laws. This is nothing short of idolatry, turning our faith—and by extension ourselves—into god.
From here, its theology just strays further and further from Scripture: it claims that God created human beings in His literal, physical image as little gods. Before the fall, humans had the potential to call things into existence by using the faith-force. After the fall, humans took on Satan's nature and lost the ability to call things into existence. In order to correct this situation, Jesus Christ gave up His divinity and became a man, died spiritually, took Satan's nature upon Himself, went to hell, was born again, and rose from the dead with God's nature. After this, Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to replicate the Incarnation in believers so they could become little gods as God had originally intended.
Following the natural progression of these teachings, as little gods we again have the ability to manipulate the faith-force and become prosperous in all areas of life. Illness, sin, and failure are the result of a lack of faith, and are remedied by confession—claiming God's promises for oneself into existence. Simply put, the Word of Faith movement exalts man to god-status and reduces God to man-status. Needless to say, this is a false representation of what Christianity is all about. Obviously, Word of Faith teaching does not take into account what is found in Scripture. Personal revelation, not Scripture, is highly relied upon in order to come up with such absurd beliefs, which is just one more proof of its heretical nature.
Countering Word of Faith teaching is a simple matter of reading the Bible. God alone is the Sovereign Creator of the Universe (Genesis 1:3; 1 Timothy 6:15) and does not need faith—He is the object of faith (Mark 11:22; Hebrews 11:3). God is spirit and does not have a physical body (John 4:24). Man was created in the image of God (Genesis 1:26, 27; 9:6), but this does not make him a little god or divine. Only God has a divine nature (Galatians 4:8; Isaiah 1:6-11, 43:10, 44:6; Ezekiel 28:2; Psalm 8:6-8). Christ is Eternal, the Only Begotten Son, and the only incarnation of God (John 1:1, 2, 14, 15, 18; 3:16; 1 John 4:1). In Him dwelt the fullness of the Godhead bodily (Colossians 2:9). By becoming a man, Jesus gave up the glory of heaven but not His divinity (Philippians 2:6-7), though He did choose to withhold His power while walking the earth as man.
The Word of Faith movement is deceiving countless people, causing them to grasp after a way of life and faith that is not biblical. At its core is the same lie Satan has been telling since the Garden: “You shall be as God” (Genesis 3:5). Sadly, those who buy into the Word of Faith movement are still listening to him. Our hope is in the Lord, not in our own words, not even in our own faith (Psalm 33:20-22). Our faith comes from God in the first place (Ephesians 2:8; Hebrews 12:2) and is not something we create for ourselves. So, be wary of the Word of Faith movement and any church that aligns itself with Word of Faith teachings.
Answer: Word of Faith teaching is decidedly unbiblical. It is not a denomination and does not have a formal organization or hierarchy. Instead, it is a movement that is heavily influenced by a number of high-profile pastors and teachers such as Kenneth Hagin, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Paul and Jan Crouch, and Fred Price.
The Word of Faith movement grew out of the Pentecostal movement in the late 20th century. Its founder was E. W. Kenyon, who studied the metaphysical New Thought teachings of Phineas Quimby. Mind science (where "name it and claim it" originated) was combined with Pentecostalism, resulting in a peculiar mix of orthodox Christianity and mysticism. Kenneth Hagin, in turn, studied under E. W. Kenyon and made the Word of Faith movement what it is today. Although individual teachings range from completely heretical to completely ridiculous, what follows is the basic theology most Word of Faith teachers align themselves with.
At the heart of the Word of Faith movement is the belief in the "force of faith." It is believed words can be used to manipulate the faith-force, and thus actually create what they believe Scripture promises (health and wealth). Laws supposedly governing the faith-force are said to operate independently of God's sovereign will and that God Himself is subject to these laws. This is nothing short of idolatry, turning our faith—and by extension ourselves—into god.
From here, its theology just strays further and further from Scripture: it claims that God created human beings in His literal, physical image as little gods. Before the fall, humans had the potential to call things into existence by using the faith-force. After the fall, humans took on Satan's nature and lost the ability to call things into existence. In order to correct this situation, Jesus Christ gave up His divinity and became a man, died spiritually, took Satan's nature upon Himself, went to hell, was born again, and rose from the dead with God's nature. After this, Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to replicate the Incarnation in believers so they could become little gods as God had originally intended.
Following the natural progression of these teachings, as little gods we again have the ability to manipulate the faith-force and become prosperous in all areas of life. Illness, sin, and failure are the result of a lack of faith, and are remedied by confession—claiming God's promises for oneself into existence. Simply put, the Word of Faith movement exalts man to god-status and reduces God to man-status. Needless to say, this is a false representation of what Christianity is all about. Obviously, Word of Faith teaching does not take into account what is found in Scripture. Personal revelation, not Scripture, is highly relied upon in order to come up with such absurd beliefs, which is just one more proof of its heretical nature.
Countering Word of Faith teaching is a simple matter of reading the Bible. God alone is the Sovereign Creator of the Universe (Genesis 1:3; 1 Timothy 6:15) and does not need faith—He is the object of faith (Mark 11:22; Hebrews 11:3). God is spirit and does not have a physical body (John 4:24). Man was created in the image of God (Genesis 1:26, 27; 9:6), but this does not make him a little god or divine. Only God has a divine nature (Galatians 4:8; Isaiah 1:6-11, 43:10, 44:6; Ezekiel 28:2; Psalm 8:6-8). Christ is Eternal, the Only Begotten Son, and the only incarnation of God (John 1:1, 2, 14, 15, 18; 3:16; 1 John 4:1). In Him dwelt the fullness of the Godhead bodily (Colossians 2:9). By becoming a man, Jesus gave up the glory of heaven but not His divinity (Philippians 2:6-7), though He did choose to withhold His power while walking the earth as man.
The Word of Faith movement is deceiving countless people, causing them to grasp after a way of life and faith that is not biblical. At its core is the same lie Satan has been telling since the Garden: “You shall be as God” (Genesis 3:5). Sadly, those who buy into the Word of Faith movement are still listening to him. Our hope is in the Lord, not in our own words, not even in our own faith (Psalm 33:20-22). Our faith comes from God in the first place (Ephesians 2:8; Hebrews 12:2) and is not something we create for ourselves. So, be wary of the Word of Faith movement and any church that aligns itself with Word of Faith teachings.