Confused and Angry

[Daniel94]

First of all let me say that I have read some of the other threads about this topic and I honestly do not believe some of you should call yourselves Christians. By this I mean that right off the bat you are judging and acting like the person wants to go through this, but many times that is NOT the case.

I will start off by saying I am a Christian, I know and believe with all my heart that Jesus died on the cross for everyone's sins and that God is real. I also know God loves everyone, but I still find myself going through troubled times as we all should. This is how our faith and trust in God is tested, which is why I am astonished at how some so-called Christians act. My personal trial is homosexual feelings. I absolutely 100% DO NOT WANT to be attracted to a man, but I am. This feelings frighten and scare me to death as I do not want to end up in Hell. I also am only 17 so this puts an enormous amount of stress on me as I am scared of what my parents, siblings, friends, and other relatives will think of me. I have prayed to God and I believe he is helping me get through this because he actually lead me to this site today.

The main reason I am angered is because some people are acting like I am choosing to be attracted to a man which (although sexual orientation has yet to be genetically proven) I feel I can't help it. Think about back when you were dating or if you are still dating now, and how you became attracted to the man or woman you are currently in a relationship with and also how you are not attracted to your same gender. I must say that the exact feeling you have is how I feel when I see a certain guy that I may like and I am in no way attracted to a woman. I have many friends that are girls , but I only see them as friends. I have even thought about trying to date one to prove to myself that I do not have attractions to another man, but I have never succeeded in asking a girl out. Also I have never been in a relationship with a guy either. I also want to say that just because someone is gay they are not attracted and want to have sex with every man they see. I also have seen on a thread that gay Christians are Catholic and I must say this is not always the case. I was born and raised a Baptist and yet I have homosexual thoughts. Many posts have also said not to interpret the Bible the way you want it, but is that not exactly what has happened. Think about it for a second. The Bible is extremely old so it has been translated many different ways. Look below for my questions on the translations.

Let me ask these questions as well:
1) What will you think if it is discovered that people are born gay?
2) If God made man then he clearly intertwined this gay gene(if a gay gene is proven) in us so are you going to still judge gay people?
3) Since the Bible has been translated over the years is it not possible that those who translated it misinterpreted the meanings of some words?
4) Is it not possible that those who translated picked and chose what they wanted to keep in the Bible? For example, there is a Book of Mary that is not in the Bible.

I would like to finish by saying that even though I was raised a Baptist I do not call myself a Baptist. I believe the denominations have (like I asked in the previous question) pick and chose what they want to believe and not believe. For example some churches/denominations do not consider homosexuality a sin or a major sin as others do. I do not believe this is what God intended. He does not want us to separate, but rather come together as one under him. For this fact I call myself a Christian and a Christian only. No matter what denomination you claim God knows what is in each and everyone of our hearts which is I just call myself a Christian and not a Baptist. I also am not trying to knock any of the denominations, because like I have already said God knows what is in our hearts.

To finish up I would also like to state one other thing I am angry about and that is the way so-called Christians judge and cast stones at others. Just so you know God meant for us to love everyone and even though it may seem impossible you MUST try. That includes homosexuals, murderers, and anyone and everyone else in the world even if they do not agree with you. By this I mean you can't be homophobic and you need to accept the troubled ones into your churches. So many people turn away from Christ because of the Christians who won't show them the love, the light, and the path to God. An excellent example of this is the song by Casting Crowns called If We Are The Body. It is one of my absolute favorite songs (which by the way I listen to contemporary Christian music all the time even though I have my homosexual thoughts sometimes). Please if you have not heard this song go to this url.

Casting Crowns - If We Are The Body - YouTube

Also the chorus is the best part
CHORUS
Jesus paid much too high a price
For us to pick and choose who should come
And we are the body of Christ

PS: Sorry for the long post.

 

[justbelieve]

First of all let me say that I have read some of the other threads about this topic and I honestly do not believe some of you should call yourselves Christians. By this I mean that right off the bat you are judging and acting like the person wants to go through this, but many times that is NOT the case.

I will start off by saying I am a Christian, I know and believe with all my heart that Jesus died on the cross for everyone's sins and that God is real. I also know God loves everyone, but I still find myself going through troubled times as we all should. This is how our faith and trust in God is tested, which is why I am astonished at how some so-called Christians act. My personal trial is homosexual feelings. I absolutely 100% DO NOT WANT to be attracted to a man, but I am. This feelings frighten and scare me to death as I do not want to end up in Hell. I also am only 17 so this puts an enormous amount of stress on me as I am scared of what my parents, siblings, friends, and other relatives will think of me. I have prayed to God and I believe he is helping me get through this because he actually lead me to this site today.

The main reason I am angered is because some people are acting like I am choosing to be attracted to a man which (although sexual orientation has yet to be genetically proven) I feel I can't help it. Think about back when you were dating or if you are still dating now, and how you became attracted to the man or woman you are currently in a relationship with and also how you are not attracted to your same gender. I must say that the exact feeling you have is how I feel when I see a certain guy that I may like and I am in no way attracted to a woman. I have many friends that are girls , but I only see them as friends. I have even thought about trying to date one to prove to myself that I do not have attractions to another man, but I have never succeeded in asking a girl out. Also I have never been in a relationship with a guy either. I also want to say that just because someone is gay they are not attracted and want to have sex with every man they see. I also have seen on a thread that gay Christians are Catholic and I must say this is not always the case. I was born and raised a Baptist and yet I have homosexual thoughts. Many posts have also said not to interpret the Bible the way you want it, but is that not exactly what has happened. Think about it for a second. The Bible is extremely old so it has been translated many different ways. Look below for my questions on the translations.

Let me ask these questions as well:
1) What will you think if it is discovered that people are born gay?
2) If God made man then he clearly intertwined this gay gene(if a gay gene is proven) in us so are you going to still judge gay people?
3) Since the Bible has been translated over the years is it not possible that those who translated it misinterpreted the meanings of some words?
4) Is it not possible that those who translated picked and chose what they wanted to keep in the Bible? For example, there is a Book of Mary that is not in the Bible.

I would like to finish by saying that even though I was raised a Baptist I do not call myself a Baptist. I believe the denominations have (like I asked in the previous question) pick and chose what they want to believe and not believe. For example some churches/denominations do not consider homosexuality a sin or a major sin as others do. I do not believe this is what God intended. He does not want us to separate, but rather come together as one under him. For this fact I call myself a Christian and a Christian only. No matter what denomination you claim God knows what is in each and everyone of our hearts which is I just call myself a Christian and not a Baptist. I also am not trying to knock any of the denominations, because like I have already said God knows what is in our hearts.

To finish up I would also like to state one other thing I am angry about and that is the way so-called Christians judge and cast stones at others. Just so you know God meant for us to love everyone and even though it may seem impossible you MUST try. That includes homosexuals, murderers, and anyone and everyone else in the world even if they do not agree with you. By this I mean you can't be homophobic and you need to accept the troubled ones into your churches. So many people turn away from Christ because of the Christians who won't show them the love, the light, and the path to God. An excellent example of this is the song by Casting Crowns called If We Are The Body. It is one of my absolute favorite songs (which by the way I listen to contemporary Christian music all the time even though I have my homosexual thoughts sometimes). Please if you have not heard this song go to this url.

Casting Crowns - If We Are The Body - YouTube

Also the chorus is the best part
CHORUS
Jesus paid much too high a price
For us to pick and choose who should come
And we are the body of Christ

PS: Sorry for the long post.

Hey again Daniel. It's me Josh I sent you some messages earlier welcoming you to CC and introducing myself.
Let me start by saying that you come across as an intelligent, articulate, and educated young man.
Now let's address your situation son...
First of all, YOU ARE CORRECT! You have no reason to feel any more guilt or shame because you are struggling with homosexual feelings, than anybody else on this planet! We all, everybody on Earth, struggles with some type(s) of sin. And there are no degrees, or levels, of sin with God... in the eyes of God, the person who tells a "little white lie" is just as sinful as the person who worships money as an idol before God. Why? Because only God is totally perfect! So compared to Him who is perfect, we are all imperfect because we all sin somehow. Let's look at some Bible verses (NIV version):
"This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE, FOR ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD, and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." Romans 3:22 - 24 The Bible doesn't say that some have sinned more or less than others, nor does it say that some fall more short than others.
Secondly, again you are correct! Nobody (Christian or not) has the right to judge anybody else (Christian or not):
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." Matthew 7:1-2
Thirdly, you're correct once again son! God judges us by our hearts:
"But the Lord said... The Lord does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart." Samuel 16:7
So what does this all mean??? It means that you struggling with homosexual desires is no different than the person who struggles with pride, the person who struggles with anger, the person that struggles with alcohol/ drugs, etc. Therefore, because in your heart you DO NOT want to be homosexual, GOD CAN HEAL AND FREE YOU of those sinful desires, just like He can remove any other kind of sin from anybody else! THE KEY IS that you know those feelings are a sin and that YOU WANT God to heal you from them!
So what do you do NOW??? Turn to God... spend time with God EVERYDAY, attend a good Bible-based church (get involved there... join groups that will help and support you), read the Bible EVERYDAY, PRAY AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE everyday, praise Him EVERYDAY, and thank Him in advance for freeing you! FINALLY:
"Because he loves me, says the Lord, I will rescue him; I will protect him, for he acknowledges My Name. He will call upon Me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble, I will deliver him and honor him. With long life will I satisfy him and show him My salvation." Psalm 91: 14-16

 

[Ugly]

Let me ask these questions as well:
1) What will you think if it is discovered that people are born gay?
2) If God made man then he clearly intertwined this gay gene(if a gay gene is proven) in us so are you going to still judge gay people?
3) Since the Bible has been translated over the years is it not possible that those who translated it misinterpreted the meanings of some words?
4) Is it not possible that those who translated picked and chose what they wanted to keep in the Bible? For example, there is a Book of Mary that is not in the Bible.

Hi, didn't not read all the way through. I don't usually read posts that long, but looked over it to get the gist of it.

1 & 2 are pretty similar questions so i'll answer them both at once. Honestly, it doesn't matter if people are 'born gay' or if its a choice. Doesn't matter. Fact is we're all born sinful. We all just have predispositions to different sins. Yours is homosexuality. For some its alcohol. Drugs. Sex. Violence. Etc.. Its called our sin nature. None of us are excused from our sins because its born in us. And homosexuals are no different. Your sins are just as equally bad as all the other sins that occur naturally in others. So there is no getting off the hook by you claiming its genetic. Sin is, in a sense, genetic. And God does not 'make' people gay. He creates a person, and when they enter their sinful body that sin nature takes over and causes us to sin.

3 & 4 If i believed i followed a God so weak, he couldn't keep His own message pure, then thats not a God i want to follow. God gave us one script to follow. And stopped there. Do you honestly think God stood by and watched it become twisted, misguided, falsified, twisted and altered to the point that it was more about mens agenda than His intended teachings?

Also, its been countless thousands of hours of untold numbers of people who have translated the bible over the years. And those translations come from languages that still have a modern version of them alive and well in modern times. We're not translating from dead languages that people have spoken or written in 2000 years. We're talking about languages that have been alive and evolving. So i'd say its a fair assumption that the translations are fairly accurate. Also mixing in other history and archaeological support for things taught in the bible.

Far as other books, ok, so you've heard people talk about other books, but what have you learned about them other than that they exist. I'm no expert but generally speaking the books most people mention, are not even written by or even during the time of the people they're named after.

Personally, to me, to doubt the bible is to doubt God Himself.

 

[lil_christian]

Let me ask these questions as well:
1) What will you think if it is discovered that people are born gay?
2) If God made man then he clearly intertwined this gay gene(if a gay gene is proven) in us so are you going to still judge gay people?
3) Since the Bible has been translated over the years is it not possible that those who translated it misinterpreted the meanings of some words?
4) Is it not possible that those who translated picked and chose what they wanted to keep in the Bible? For example, there is a Book of Mary that is not in the Bible.

First off,

Casting Crowns "If We Are the Body" is talking about "Why aren't people in the church doing what they should? Why aren't we spreading the Gospel? Why aren't we reaching out to the people who aren't saved? Why aren't we doing what we're supposed to? If we are the body, why aren't we doing what God has commanded us to do as Christians? Why aren't we being the light?"

And then the answers to your questions:

A1: I say that when you are born again in Christ, you are a NEW creation. The old has gone, the new has come. You're not the same person you were. (Not saying it's going to be easy to overcome, but you got to claim God's Word and His promises and proclaim each and every day, "By the precious blood of Jesus Christ, YOU ARE A NEW CREATION. You ARE NOT the same person you were." If it helps, go say it in front of a mirror.)

A2: God works beyond genetics. Are genetics going to limit God from delivering that person from sin? I don't think so. God isn't going to just go, "I made you born gay whether it's a sin or not. Bye-bye!" that's not how God works. He's okay with us where we are, but He doesn't want us to STAY there. He wants to help us up and overcome and keep moving.

A3: 2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is inspired (aka God-breathed) by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

If you're open to hearing the Word of God, there's your answer right there. I don't think it's been misinterpreted.

A4: God had a plan when those translators put those books together into one whole book. God willed those books to be made one whole book. The unity of those 66 books is just beyond comprehension. 2-3 different languages (Hebrew, Greek, and a little Aramic I think it's called), hundreds of years apart, many different countries, yet, there's still a unity to it when put together. It's like they were meant to be together. And they WERE meant to be together. They were put on this Earth to be written to the people back in Bible times, to teach them, to warn them, to prophecy to them. The same goes for us here and now. It also sets an example for us to go by. To show us what to do, what not to do...to show us what price it took for our sins to be washed away and wiped clean. To show us what it takes to follow Christ.

 

[PopClick]

Hey, Daniel. I understand your frustration and anger, and I wouldn't ever say that your feelings/desires are a choice... because I don't know that they are. Nobody knows but God.

The others are right; everybody struggles with sinful desires. I'm sending you a private message, and I really hope it helps.

 

[Daniel94]

Your sins are just as equally bad as all the other sins that occur naturally in others. So there is no getting off the hook by you claiming its genetic.

3 & 4 If i believed i followed a God so weak, he couldn't keep His own message pure, then thats not a God i want to follow. God gave us one script to follow. And stopped there. Do you honestly think God stood by and watched it become twisted, misguided, falsified, twisted and altered to the point that it was more about mens agenda than His intended teachings?

Personally, to me, to doubt the bible is to doubt God Himself.

First of all let me say I do not doubt the Bible and I am offended that you even made that assumption. Secondly, it is perfectly NORMAL for people to have questions about the Bible and that once again does not mean they are doubting it. Thirdly, do you really think all sins are equal? All I said was I found myself attracted to men and I have NEVER acted on these feelings. Is this feeling that I can not control myself as bad as a serial killer killing 10 people or a child molester molesting 7 kids? I do not think so and if you do that is your opinion. Also i am not saying God is a weak God I am saying the devil is strong as well (although not as strong as God) and he has the power to manipulate people.

 

[Daniel94]

First off,

Casting Crowns "If We Are the Body" is talking about "Why aren't people in the church doing what they should? Why aren't we spreading the Gospel? Why aren't we reaching out to the people who aren't saved? Why aren't we doing what we're supposed to? If we are the body, why aren't we doing what God has commanded us to do as Christians? Why aren't we being the light?"

And then the answers to your questions:

A2: God works beyond genetics. Are genetics going to limit God from delivering that person from sin? I don't think so. God isn't going to just go, "I made you born gay whether it's a sin or not. Bye-bye!" that's not how God works. He's okay with us where we are, but He doesn't want us to STAY there. He wants to help us up and overcome and keep moving.

A3: 2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is inspired (aka God-breathed) by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

If you're open to hearing the Word of God, there's your answer right there. I don't think it's been misinterpreted.

To start with I agree with what you are saying about the song, but this applis to people who are trying to go to church, but are being judged.

A traveler is far away from home
He sheds his coat and quietly sinks into the back row
The weight of their judgmental glances
Tells him that his chances are better out on the road

That clearly means that a church is judging the traveler and do not want him in their church. This could also apply to homosexuals, murderers, molesters, or anyone who is need of help and the churches won't help them.

As for you answer to q2 I know God is not going to do something and leave us hanging, but I see my problem as a test of my faith which I currently and holding onto very firmly if I must say.

As for q3 I am not saying it has been misinterpreted I am saying is there not a possibility. Also I had heard that in the original sense homosexuality in the Bible was talking about a man raping another man.

To finish up I am also going to say that with all the different Christian denominations and religions how has God's word been kept intact? Everyone teaches differently which is why I said in my original post that I just identify myself as a Christian. Once again God knows what is in each and everyone's heart so if you think I am un-Christianly to say that i am sorry, but that is just how I feel.

 

[AdorableNoel]

I skimmed through your post and some of the comments. One thing "right off the bat". Your right about the song(im now listening to it for the first time), we as christians should be reaching out to those who are hurting or are struggling with things.

I've dealt with "homo" feelings also, but that might have to do more with my tramatic past. I found females very attractive and even "dated" some. First i had to wake up and realise it wasnt right. Period. No "what ifs" or "but think about it this way". And I couldnt view guys that way at all, in fact thinking of a guy that way could literally make me hurl. Dont take this offensively, but when i was trying to change for God; i went to a friend who told me a quote "God made Adam and Eve NOT Adam & Steve". Women (who are meant to have a husband) long for a good man, so im assuming it's vice versa for guys.

I agree with Ugly especially on the part about where God didnt mess up with the bible. Millions.. hopefully billions or people have/read the bible. Why would he let THAT many people be led astray? Everything in the bible matches up, each book, form each person, at each different time period.. so i'll assume it was translated correctly.

When my family went to church they would go to Baptist ones, and consider themselves baptist also. I really dont 'get' denominations.. if you follow christ and believe Jesus the son of Gd died for our sins, you're a christian each person may view the bible a little differently form the next person.. so yea that's completely agreeable

And yes we should all love each other (unconditional love). My father was a murderer and possibly still murders, i was abused a particular person ina a wrong way for most of my life also,.. so if i can find love for them, humans can love anybody.

okay, i know im just ranting on.

Point is (hmmn.. what is my point?) You are loved, you have already been forgiven for your feelings toward guys, and no matter what keep your head up In my opinion, liking the same sex is a sin. I dealt with that, sometimes the feeling pops up but i havent been 'straight' for very long either.. not even 3 months. Anywho, i know you'll overcome this. Even if you don't find a lady to your liking, you will come to realize this is wrong hon I wont judge you, and others on here (they may be hard..possibly very hard [lol] to find) won't judge you either If you ever need someone to talk to, or just give your opinions to (i'll try not to throw my opinions in or talk too much) I'll listen

God Bless! May he walk with you through everything

 

[Ugly]

First of all let me say I do not doubt the Bible and I am offended that you even made that assumption. Secondly, it is perfectly NORMAL for people to have questions about the Bible and that once again does not mean they are doubting it. Thirdly, do you really think all sins are equal? All I said was I found myself attracted to men and I have NEVER acted on these feelings. Is this feeling that I can not control myself as bad as a serial killer killing 10 people or a child molester molesting 7 kids? I do not think so and if you do that is your opinion. Also i am not saying God is a weak God I am saying the devil is strong as well (although not as strong as God) and he has the power to manipulate people.

I love it when people ask for help, then take offense and complain when you offer it. I'm so tired of people coming on this site looking for people to tell them their sins really are ok and just don't worry. I'm not going to tell you that.
Also, its nice to see you twisted a lot of what i said, always a show of the type of character of the person.
Lastly... answer me this question. 1 guy goes to be judged, his sin, he lives as a homosexual. Another guy comes up for judgment, his only sin, killing 10 people. Do they both get different judgments? Ooops, nope, both will end up in hell. Thanks for playing, now move along.

 

[Daniel94]

I love it when people ask for help, then take offense and complain when you offer it. I'm so tired of people coming on this site looking for people to tell them their sins really are ok and just don't worry. I'm not going to tell you that.
Also, its nice to see you twisted a lot of what i said, always a show of the type of character of the person.
Lastly... answer me this question. 1 guy goes to be judged, his sin, he lives as a homosexual. Another guy comes up for judgment, his only sin, killing 10 people. Do they both get different judgments? Ooops, nope, both will end up in hell. Thanks for playing, now move along.

I hope you fully read this even though it is kind of long.

First of all let me say I almost cried when reading this and of course I am going to get offended when you are talking about me believing in a weak God and having doubts in the Bible and God. FYI if I am believing in a weak God then so are you cause there is only one and if we believe in the same one you are basically calling God weak yourself. A better way to phrase that would have been "We ,Christians, have an awesome and powerful God who want let anyone misuse, mistreat, or harm his word or children." Also, excuse me if I may have misunderstood what you said and now you are the one taking offense. Also without you fully reading my post do you even know how I feel? If you aren't willing to fully hear/read what someone has to say then how can you attempt to help them? That would be like God only listening to half a prayer which He would not do. Also I am not looking for anyone to tell me my sins are ok because I know they are not which is why I am trying to change. If you had fully read you would have also understood that I have never acted on my feelings. I have heard preachers before say they believe there are different levels of Hell. This means each sin is judged as being wrong, but each holds a different level of punishment in the sense of where you find yourself in Hell. I do not know that that is 100% true, but I feel each sin is going to be looked at differently. I also think when you reply like that you turn people away from Christ. Someone is going to get offended because if they are confused they may not be sure what they believe and they may also become confused as to what you mean thus twisting up your words. Do not try turning this against me either because I know what I believe I was just trying to get some opinions.

 

[jack4022]

Daniel, I can get part of what ur going through, there are a ton of emotions involved in coming to terms with ur sexuality and coming out and sharing that part of yourself with others. To be honest, some people in ur life won't accept u as u are, I can't predict who these people will be, but if they do reject u THEY DONT REALLY LOVE U. Anyone who is willing to throw someone away like that isn't someone u want in ur life. I also wanted to let u know that u can be gay and christian or ex-gay and christian if u so choose. That's because it's UR CHOICE. Life is ur canvas u get to paint whatever you want on it. Be who U want to be, not what someone else wants u to be. People in the christian community will want u one way and people in the gay community will want u another, but trying to make others happy won't make u happy. I can't promise that anything in the future will be easy for u, in fact it probably won't be easy at all especially trying to reconcile ur faith and ur sexuality, but I do know this, IT IS POSSIBLE TO RECONCILE THE TWO, I've seen people do it before. Whether that means u end up gay or ex-gay or whatever, again it's ur choice. Have a good day

 

[AdorableNoel]

I didnt read all of that argument,, but please stop. It hurts my heart to see that fellow christians are talking against each other in such a way You guys are the kind of people the rest of the world should look up. As children of God we need to lead examples and arguing in that way is just so.. silly.. and not the good silly.

And Ugly, with all respect.. as long as he loves God and is willing to repent he's not going... to the place far below. Dont you mess up everyday? Your sins are (as you implied) just as bad as his.. so if that were the case then you'd be destined to the fire also. But you're not, because you love God and God loves you. So Daniel has a future with Jesus also. Maybe i had read what you said wrong considering i skimmed...i dont know/:

But please dont speak harshly to each other or become upset I know it hurts God to see his children arguing.

God Bless! <3 <3 <3

 

[Ugly]

I didnt read all of that argument,, but please stop. It hurts my heart to see that fellow christians are talking against each other in such a way You guys are the kind of people the rest of the world should look up. As children of God we need to lead examples and arguing in that way is just so.. silly.. and not the good silly.

And Ugly, with all respect.. as long as he loves God and is willing to repent he's not going... to the place far below. Dont you mess up everyday? Your sins are (as you implied) just as bad as his.. so if that were the case then you'd be destined to the fire also. But you're not, because you love God and God loves you. So Daniel has a future with Jesus also. Maybe i had read what you said wrong considering i skimmed...i dont know/:

But please dont speak harshly to each other or become upset I know it hurts God to see his children arguing.

God Bless! <3 <3 <3

Go back and read. No where did i say this individual is going to hell. That is yet another twisting of my words.

 

[AdorableNoel]

Go back and read. No where did i say this individual is going to hell. That is yet another twisting of my words.

Ouch. I wasnt twsiting anything sorry if it came off as though i did. It didnt seem like something you would say,That's why i had said i may have read it wrong. Sorry