Loss of salvation???
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Because my trust is in Christ rather than myself.
We are told in 1 John 3:9 - No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.
Please note: It does not say No one born of God ceases to sin, which is the lie that you continually spew forth. . . . .
No! We are a work in progress and will not be perfected until that day. Phil 1:6
Jn 14:15
I read it with the same approach as the Pythagorean theorem in regard to right triangles and Geometry where, if you know a and b, and you know they are squared then you know what c is, assuming it is also squared. The love is a given and the Me is a given, then obeying is the result.
Base verb is:
τηρέω (tēréō)
Meaning:
- to keep
- to guard
- to observe
- to hold fast
τηρήσετε = future active indicative, 2nd person plural
→ “you (plural) will keep”
John 14:23
τηρήσει = future active indicative, 3rd person singular
→ “he will keep”
I peaked in Geometry, then it was all downhill from there.Haven’t ever look at it that way but I guess it works. Geometry wasnt my best subject.
Trespassing against others and others trespassing against you is very different from losing faith and falling away! I believe this is the ultimate sin for losing salvation.
Ouch believes in Oneness Pentecostalism (nontrinitarian). Has He fallen away from the Faith? Has he been deceived by lying spirits? Is he saved?
MM
If you can't undersand how your understanding of 2 Timothy 2.13 is creating a clear conflcit with verse 12...
then it's clear why you have such a misunderstanding of scripture.
So stating to another "Christian" that we are to obey God
is
prideful infatuation
and saving myself
Yes sir.
Some would cause Christianity to fall....
but Jesus said He would protect his church
and not even the gates of hell will prevail.
Matthew 16:18
18 And I also say to you that you are [m]Peter, and upon this [n]rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
Replied to above.
You might want to do a very small study on
2 Timothy 2:12-13
But it might upset your odd theology.
I'm not a Pelagain.
Actually, our salvation IS based on our retention of our faith.
I provided many verses proving this.
The smart persons following along -who do not even post - will understand this from simple reading of the NT.
And I have noticed that you provide no scripture for your understanding of the NT and your idea that we cannot lose our salvation.
This is because you have NO SUPPORT because your idea is not what the NT teaches.
We're works in process . . .
Ephesians 4:11-16 KJV
11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15) But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16) From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
If we are seeking to have unity in truth and love we are in a good Way.
Much Love!
He should be left alone.
And, he should leave us alone.
He keeps getting attention by re-introducing his false distorted doctrine, and we dummies keep thinking correction is an option.
He serves only as a distraction.
If he were in a good teaching church, they would have him leave, so others could learn.
He really does not think we would believe his teaching.
He just does not want us to keep growing in ours.
It is spiritual warfare.
In warfare, he would be called a saboteur.
Mainly manuscripts evidence and then comparisons in Scripture and context. You can see how some discuss it in sites like this.
Whatever the decisions, the other verses I listed earlier IMO tell us what the entire teaching ends up being, especially 1John which IMO makes it clear that love & obedience are tied together, essentially meaning love = obedience. Even John14:15 in a future tense does not have to mean obedience is only motivated by love - Jesus can simply be saying with the future tense that 'you will obey Me' because that's what love for me is - obeying Him like 1John makes clear and the imperative would fit with.
Sorry Qt
I just saw your post to me from quite a while ago.
It was regarding John 14:15
I did want your opinon:
If Jesus is saying that IF we love Him we will obey Him....
isn't that the same as saying that if we do not obey Him,,
it means we do not love Him?
Also, when GOD states YOU WILL
isn't that a command?
I understand everything Jesus says to be a command.
When He states in Matthew 5 BLESSED ARE THE HUMBLE....
He is, in effect, saying that we are to be humble....
this is what He wants...to what degree we can achieve this is a totally different matter.
Some seem to want to lighten what Jesus commands by saying that we do this because
we want to.
Yes sir. With the help of the Holy Spirit we will want to and ever so much more.
But we also MUST and that this words bothers some on these Forums does cause me to have concern.
Doesn't say much for current collective/corporate maturity, does it...
Just caught this while replying to another member.
This would be also for @Mem who asked a good question.
What to do with conflicting scripure?
First, I don't believe there is conflicting scripture,,,,
just that not every single teaching could be repeated in every single sentence.
The bible is to be read as a whole thought and not to be cut up into different divisions.
I started reading the Early Fathers...Apostolic to be precise, pre-nicene,
and have found it to be very helpful.
Protestants that have studied church history also mention them and refer to them.
Wes Huff comes to mind, and just yesterday, GodLogic mentioned them.
For instance, I like Ignatius of Antioch. He was a student of John and Peter.
Everyone might not agree...I found it to be helpful and those that I read are teaching
right out of the bible and just after the Apostolic age.
And of course,,,,it's the Apostles that taught them...
the same Apostles that wrote the NT.
And?
What is He telling us to obey?
The many Christians who walk in human confidence can not obey what is required of them.
Jesus answered,
“It is written:
‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”
Mat 4:4
“It is written:
‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”
Mat 4:4
How much have we stored in our spirit?
Are we learning more and more every day?
Or, is it the same thing, over and over again?
Always arguing.... Never knowing the truth.
I agree with your last few paragraphs (1, 3, and 4) with an additional statement:
Salvation is dependent on faith plus doing His will in the NT.
Beware of men’s writings and ideas!!
This is where we can error and get away from what God teaches.
We have all that we need from the Bible! We don’t need men’s opinions.