Man's part in Jesus' death on a cross

[ATG]

The title itself proves the point: 'We played no part in Jesus' sacrifice on the cross' is so obviously false, that it gets lost in all the imaginative ideological bromides, that would say we played no part in Jesus' death on a cross.

And since it's physically false, then the ideology is false, that says man plays no part in our own salvation by Jesus' death on the cross. If no man played part in Jesus' work of sacrifice for sins, means that no man can play part in Jesus' work of salvation from sins. Then, if any man played part in the work of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, then every man must also play part in the work of Jesus' salvation from sins.

I.e. did Jesus do all the work of sacrificing Himself for sins, by Himself alone? Or, did any man play a part in His crucifixion on the cross?

The answer is of course obvious, when all the theological airs are brought down to solid ground of an old rugged cross .

Act 2:23
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Wicked hands of sinful men played their own part in the work of Jesus, the Lamb of God, being sacrificed for sins on earth.

Luk 24:7
Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.

Why must the Son of man be crucified by sinful men on earth? For sins of man? Yes. And also because of sins of men. For if men had not sinned, then the Son of man need not be crucified for sins. And also if men had not sinned against Him at the cross, then He had not been crucified at all.

Sinful men was the cause and means of Jesus' work of sacrifice by crucifixion. Does no cause and means of a work, play part in the work? It does, else work is no more work. And sacrifice is no more sacrifice.

But did only those sinful men play part in Jesus' crucifixion? No, also we, as well as all men that have sinned against Christ, have played our part in the work of crucifying Jesus' body on a tree. Did He die for their sins only? No, also for ours. Did He die because of their sins against Him, yes, also because of ours.

And not only by cause and means, but also by law of God, all men are judged guilty of having part in the shedding the blood of Jesus Christ in sacrifice for sins:

Deu 19:9
If thou shalt keep all these commandments to do them, which I command thee this day, to love the LORD thy God, and to walk ever in his ways;…That innocent blood be not shed in thy land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, and so blood be upon thee.

Rom 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

By law, all the land is guilty of the innocent blood shed thereon. But Jesus was not only a born Son of Mary in Judea, but was the Son of man on earth. Therefore, all the earth, and sinful nations and people of the earth, are judged guilty of shedding in the innocent blood of the Lamb of God on earth.

By Scripture and by law of God, any man that says he played no part in the crucifixion work of Jesus' sacrifice for sins, is saying he has not sinned against Christ on earth, and that He had no part nor guilt in shedding His innocent blood unto death.

Since all men that have sinned played our part in crucifying the Son of man, then all men that sinned must have part in the salvation of the Son of God:

Acts{3:19}
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Cor {7:10}
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

We that played our part in nailing Jesus to a tree, must also repent of our own sins against Him at the cross. He must come to die for our sins by our sinful hands, we by reason and cause must repent of killing Him by our sins and trespasses.

Isa 1:18
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

No man can be saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, without first repenting of our own sinful work in His sacrifice for sins on the cross.

Luk 3:8
Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

 

[brightfame52]

No man can be saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, without first repenting of our own sinful work in His sacrifice for sins on the cross.

Hi but Christ gives repentance when He saves one Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

So repentance isnt a requirement from the dead sinner, but a gift given applied by Jesus Christ along with the gift of forgiveness of sins

 

[Soyeong]

The title itself proves the point: 'We played no part in Jesus' sacrifice on the cross' is so obviously false, that it gets lost in all the imaginative ideological bromides, that would say we played no part in Jesus' death on a cross.

And since it's physically false, then the ideology is false, that says man plays no part in our own salvation by Jesus' death on the cross. If no man played part in Jesus' work of sacrifice for sins, means that no man can play part in Jesus' work of salvation from sins. Then, if any man played part in the work of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, then every man must also play part in the work of Jesus' salvation from sins.

I.e. did Jesus do all the work of sacrificing Himself for sins, by Himself alone? Or, did any man play a part in His crucifixion on the cross?

The answer is of course obvious, when all the theological airs are brought down to solid ground of an old rugged cross .

Act 2:23
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Wicked hands of sinful men played their own part in the work of Jesus, the Lamb of God, being sacrificed for sins on earth.

Luk 24:7
Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.

Why must the Son of man be crucified by sinful men on earth? For sins of man? Yes. And also because of sins of men. For if men had not sinned, then the Son of man need not be crucified for sins. And also if men had not sinned against Him at the cross, then He had not been crucified at all.

Sinful men was the cause and means of Jesus' work of sacrifice by crucifixion. Does no cause and means of a work, play part in the work? It does, else work is no more work. And sacrifice is no more sacrifice.

But did only those sinful men play part in Jesus' crucifixion? No, also we, as well as all men that have sinned against Christ, have played our part in the work of crucifying Jesus' body on a tree. Did He die for their sins only? No, also for ours. Did He die because of their sins against Him, yes, also because of ours.

And not only by cause and means, but also by law of God, all men are judged guilty of having part in the shedding the blood of Jesus Christ in sacrifice for sins:

Deu 19:9
If thou shalt keep all these commandments to do them, which I command thee this day, to love the LORD thy God, and to walk ever in his ways;…That innocent blood be not shed in thy land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, and so blood be upon thee.

Rom 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

By law, all the land is guilty of the innocent blood shed thereon. But Jesus was not only a born Son of Mary in Judea, but was the Son of man on earth. Therefore, all the earth, and sinful nations and people of the earth, are judged guilty of shedding in the innocent blood of the Lamb of God on earth.

By Scripture and by law of God, any man that says he played no part in the crucifixion work of Jesus' sacrifice for sins, is saying he has not sinned against Christ on earth, and that He had no part nor guilt in shedding His innocent blood unto death.

Since all men that have sinned played our part in crucifying the Son of man, then all men that sinned must have part in the salvation of the Son of God:

Acts{3:19}
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Cor {7:10}
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

We that played our part in nailing Jesus to a tree, must also repent of our own sins against Him at the cross. He must come to die for our sins by our sinful hands, we by reason and cause must repent of killing Him by our sins and trespasses.

Isa 1:18
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

No man can be saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, without first repenting of our own sinful work in His sacrifice for sins on the cross.

Luk 3:8
Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

In Titus 2:13 our gift of salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so God's part is to graciously train us to obey the Law of God and our part is to participate in that training through faith. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good work, so that was his part and our part is to believe in what he accomplished by becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Law of God (Acts 21:20).

 

[brightfame52]

our part is to believe in what he accomplished by becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Law of God (Acts 21:20).

This is works salvation

 

[Soyeong]

This is works salvation

The Bible speaks about being required to have first done enough works in order to earn our salvation, but does not speak against the experience of being a doer of good works as being intrinsically part of our gift of salvation. In Titus 2:11-13, the content of our gift of salvation is described as being trained by grace do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so doing those works in obedience to the Law of God has nothing to do with earning our salvation as the result (works salvation), but rather God graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of those works is part of the content of His gift of salvation. If you want to also call that works salvation, then we another term to distinguish between the works salvation that the Bible speaks against and the works salvation that it supports.

 

[brightfame52]

The Bible speaks about being required to have first done enough works in order to earn our salvation, but does not speak against the experience of being a doer of good works as being intrinsically part of our gift of salvation. In Titus 2:11-13, the content of our gift of salvation is described as being trained by grace do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so doing those works in obedience to the Law of God has nothing to do with earning our salvation as the result (works salvation), but rather God graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of those works is part of the content of His gift of salvation. If you want to also call that works salvation, then we another term to distinguish between the works salvation that the Bible speaks against and the works salvation that it supports.

Works Salvation

 

[Dino246]

The Bible speaks about being required to have first done enough works in order to earn our salvation

Chapter and verse, please.

but does not speak against the experience of being a doer of good works as being intrinsically part of our gift of salvation.

That's bafflegab. Learn how to write concise, meaningful sentences.

In Titus 2:11-13, the content of our gift of salvation is described as being trained by grace do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so doing those works in obedience to the Law of God has nothing to do with earning our salvation as the result (works salvation), but rather God graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of those works is part of the content of His gift of salvation.

Here's what Titus 2:11-13 actually says:

For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

It says nothing about "the content of our gift of salvation". It says nothing about "the Law of God". It says nothing about "God graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of those works".

So, maybe you should STOP paraphrasing God's word because you consistently MESS IT UP.

 

[Soyeong]

Works Salvation

I meant to say that the Bible speaks [against] being required to have first done enough works in order to earn our salvation, but does not speak against the experience of being a doer of good works as being intrinsically part of our gift of salvation.

Calling my position works salvation doesn't make it false.

 

[Dino246]

I meant to say that the Bible speaks [against] being required to have first done enough works in order to earn our salvation, but does not speak against the experience of being a doer of good works as being intrinsically part of our gift of salvation.

Calling my position works salvation doesn't make it false.

By itself, no, but as "works salvation" is false, we may confidently say that your position is false!

 

[brightfame52]

I meant to say that the Bible speaks [against] being required to have first done enough works in order to earn our salvation, but does not speak against the experience of being a doer of good works as being intrinsically part of our gift of salvation.

Calling my position works salvation doesn't make it false.

There will be good works done after one is saved, Yet a person may have good works and not good doctrine. For instance, I know of some Mormons, JW SDA who are full of good works b4 man, but their doctrine is deadly. So good works are only good when they adorn good sound doctrine Ttus 2:10

Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things

Ive observed your posts for a while, they are mostly if not always, with an emphasis on works, but never about sound soteriology or Christology

 

[Soyeong]

There will be good works done after one is saved, Yet a person may have good works and not good doctrine. For instance, I know of some Mormons, JW SDA who are full of good works b4 man, but their doctrine is deadly. So good works are only good when they adorn good sound doctrine Ttus 2:10

Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things

Ive observed your posts for a while, they are mostly if not always, with an emphasis on works, but never about sound soteriology or Christology

In Titus 2:11-13, it doesn't say that we need to become saved first and then we will do those works after we are saved, but rather it describes the content of our gift of salvation as being trained by grace to do those works. In Proverbs 4:2, it defines sound doctrine as not forsaking the Law of Moses. Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21) and it is by the Law of Moses that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so Jesus graciously teaching us to be doers of it is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being doers of it. If would be contradictory for someone to think that they need a Jesus to be their Savior while also thinking that they have no obligation to obey the Law of Moses.

 

[brightfame52]

In Titus 2:11-13, it doesn't say that we need to become saved first and then we will do those works after we are saved, but rather it describes the content of our gift of salvation as being trained by grace to do those works. In Proverbs 4:2, it defines sound doctrine as not forsaking the Law of Moses. Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21) and it is by the Law of Moses that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so Jesus graciously teaching us to be doers of it is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being doers of it. If would be contradictory for someone to think that they need a Jesus to be their Savior while also thinking that they have no obligation to obey the Law of Moses.

 

[brightfame52]

@Soyeong

In Titus 2:11-13, it doesn't say that we need to become saved first and then we will do those works after we are saved, but rather it describes the content of our gift of salvation as being trained by grace to do those works. In Proverbs 4:2, it defines sound doctrine as not forsaking the Law of Moses.

You made my point, you all about works, no matter how you attempt to disguise it

 

[Soyeong]

@Soyeong



You made my point, you all about works, no matter how you attempt to disguise it

The Bible is about works no matter how you disguise it.

 

[ATG]

Hi but Christ gives repentance when He saves one Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

You're exactly right. Even our repentance from dead works is not our own work to boast of, but is also the granted gift of God by grace unto faith and salvation from sin.

Eph{2:8}
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

2 Cor 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance unto salvation not to be repented of:

 

[ATG]

So repentance isnt a requirement from the dead sinner, but a gift given applied by Jesus Christ along with the gift of forgiveness of sins

How can a necessary gift of God unto our salvation, not be necessary for our salvation? Repentance from sins is necessary for salvation, therefore sinners repenting of sin is necessary for salvation.

Since that's self-contradictory nonsense, then how can repentance not be a requirement from the dead sinner, when repentance is the gift of God given to sinners for forgiveness and salvation?

Or, is this another strain of sinners having no part in the sacrificial work of Jesus' crucifixion for our sins? Do we therefore have no part in repentance from our sins, that crucified Jesus on the cross? Jesus crucified Himself alone on a cross for our sins, and now repents Himself alone from our sins?? Sinners did not crucify Jesus Christ, nor do sinners repent for crucifying Him? Jesus Himself alone did all the work of sacrifice for our sins, and of repentance from our sins?

The fact that it's God's gift of repentance to us unto salvation and life, does not mean we don't do the work of repentance. No more than we don't do the work of faith, since it's the gift of God to us by grace:

Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

1 Cor{15:10}
But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace [which was bestowed] upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Just because we don't get any credit for repentance and good works by grace of God, doesn't mean we don't do the repenting and the works. If we have no part in repenting and doing good, then whose body is doing? Is our soul separated from our body, and our body is not the body of Christ??

In any case, one thing is for sure, everyone that has sinned against Christ on earth, has our part in the work of Jesus' sacrifice for our sins. For that work of crucifixion, all men must take our share of credit, and repent.

Rom 2:3
And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

 

[brightfame52]

The Bible is about works no matter how you disguise it.

You are consumed by the works men do

 

[brightfame52]

How can a necessary gift of God unto our salvation, not be necessary for our salvation?

You sound confused. Everything necessary to save a sinner from their sins Grace provides it, gives it through Jesus Christ.

 

[ATG]

In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good work, so that was his part and our part is to believe in what he accomplished by becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Law of God (Acts 21:20).

Luk 24:7
Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.

Jesus must come to die for man's sins. He must give Himself on a cross to do so. If man had not sinned, then Jesus must not come to die for sins. If sinful man had not crucified Him, He had not died for our sins.

Anyone saying that they had no part in Jesus giving Himself at the cross for their sins, is either saying they never sinned against Christ, or Jesus did not come and die for their sins, or is deluded beyond reason by a 'Faith Alone' ideology.

And pretty speeches doesn't make it any more reasonable:

Rom 16:18
By good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Saying sinners had no part in the sacrificial work of Jesus Christ for sins, is as saying the cross had no part in His crucifixion. Or, that Jesus Christ alone crucified Himself to the cross. Or, that it's the cross' fault, not the crucifiers.

 

[Soyeong]

You are consumed by the works men do

God graciously teaching us to obey His law is what God does.