The Sin Nature is spiritual lust, not flesh and blood.

[Edward429451]

That was pretty funny E !
Wow. I think I know you from another forum.
That you left quite some time ago.

I don't know ANYTHING about boolits...but it sounds like you sure do!

Got any silver ones? !
LOL

I melted down some silver coins and jewelry and yeah i knew I had to make at least one! I made into a 45 boolit and I even loaded it into a case with powder. It was nice while it lasted Lol.

 

[Dino246]

I melted down some silver coins and jewelry and yeah i knew I had to make at least one! I made into a 45 boolit and I even loaded it into a case with powder. It was nice while it lasted Lol.

With respect, perhaps you could take this particular line of discussion to "The Gun Thread" under the Miscellaneous forum.

 

[Toknow]

I melted down some silver coins and jewelry and yeah i knew I had to make at least one! I made into a 45 boolit and I even loaded it into a case with powder. It was nice while it lasted Lol.

LOL
Save it in case you come into contact with one of them there vampires!!

 

[Toknow]

With respect, perhaps you could take this particular line of discussion to "The Gun Thread" under the Miscellaneous forum.

Oh stop.
A little fun never hurt anybody!

 

[Toknow]

Here is your original question that started this discussion:


I responded with this:

"That’s either silly or ignorant.

Do you stone adulterers? Do you attend the temple three times each year? Do you summon a priest when your shower grout gets mouldy? All those are God’s commands. Are you supposed to obey God or not?"

OK Dino...almost 1AM here,,,can't seem to be able to sign off...
will give this my best shot:

My point is this: It is "necessary to debate whether or not we need to obey God" because some "Christians" believe that we are under the Mosaic Law. We need to debate to persuade such people that we are not. I asked you about three points of the Mosaic law because I am certain you don't obey them.

Ooooooh.
It sounded as though you were asking me if I DO obey the Law.

OK

We need to show which parts of the Bible we need to obey. Some poor people are confused on this matter. You understand that we aren't under the Law (that's good!).

Yes sir.
We are not under the Law.

But this could get confusing because some believe that since we are not under The Law,,,we are also not required to bear fruit...some going so far as to say that obedience is not necessary, or that we could live a life of sin and still be saved. (not anyone on here).

People who argue that Christians must obey the Law are deceived; they don't understand that we are under a fundamentally different covenant. They ignore the uncomfortable bits in the Law (like stoning adulterers) or the impossible bits (like attending the temple thrice each year) or the bits that just make no sense today (like having a priest inspect the mould in your shower grout). The latter two are impossible (no temple, no Levitical priesthood).

It is necessary to debate to expose these errors and respond with truth.

Agreed.
The Mosaic Covenant is no longer valid. (having been replaced)
The New Covenant is for Christians.
The Mosaic Covenant was bi-lateral and required both sides (parties) to agree and adhere to the Covenant. (The Israelis could not).
The New Covenant is unilateral and all the work is done by Jesus atoning sacrifice and the fulfillment of the Law...which is why it's abolished (except for the Moral Law)

Yes.
Agreed 100%

 

[Dino246]

The New Covenant is unilateral and all the work is done by Jesus atoning sacrifice and the fulfillment of the Law...which is why it's abolished (except for the Moral Law)

I agree with everything you said except for this.

This is where many people go off track. If the old covenant has been made obsolete (Hebrews 8:13), then it doesn't mean some parts are obsolete and some parts aren't. Further, there isn't any Scripture telling us which parts are "moral". Does that mean it's up to us? I don't think so.

Rather, I firmly believe that the nature of the new covenant is radically different than the old. In the new, we aren't given a list of "Thou shalt not's"; rather, we receive the Holy Spirit. He dwells in us and leads us, and therefore we have no need of external regulations.

It's not that we are now "permitted" to lie, lust, steal, or covet; rather, we are changed from the inside so that our core motivation is no longer toward sin, but toward righteousness.

The law was our tutor to lead us to Christ (Galatians 3:24). Now that we are in Christ, "we are no longer under the supervision of the law" (v. 25).

 

[tourist]

That is why we need a Savior. (Romans 3:10-12, 22-28; 6:23)

Exactly, brother.

 

[jacko]

can a sinner not sin like a dog cannot bark? impossible.

 

[Edward429451]

LOL
Save it in case you come into contact with one of them there vampires!!

Can't. Friends. Bang. Why'd you do that? Ha-ha ha-ha.

 

[markss]

People should ask themselves if they are able to hear the voice of the Lord? If you can you know. If you can't that doesn't happen like a spontaneous miracle. it takes days or weeks to practice it listening to God, If some disaster happened or shtf and you can't hear the voice of the Lord?!!!!! That could be dangerous.

Learning to hear God still small voice is like anything else, lol It's simple but hard to learn. Takes faith too. Time is short.

I don't know about applying rules to how God works with each of us.

The first time God spoke clearly succinctly to me was like this.

We have a garage door opener, with the little clickers to make it work. My was bad, and for years, I've had to open the battery case, squeeze the contacts, and press the button. Otherwise it wouldn't work. And I'm a McGyver kind of guy, I fix anything. But I couldn't fix that.

One day as I was approaching the garage, I help my clicker in my hand, getting ready to open the back, when a voice in side said, "It will work now."

I stopped, I stared, I knew this wasn't my thought, it was from somewhere outside. I thought it was God. I pressed the button. The door opened. And it has worked now for years, the door opens, closes, that's it.

Later, I came to understand that this was the beginning of God's training me to hear Him, to know it's Him.

What I understand is this. He knows my need, and knows how to train me according to His will. So I trust Him.

Much love!

 

[Toknow]

Of course translators often differ in how they translate. I don't recommend trusting the NIV translators, for instance.

Sorry markss...
too tired last night and I wanted to give this some attention.


I wouldn't say that that translators are not doing a good job of translating...
I'd say that they could be slanted in one direction or another, depending on their affiliation.
This is why I use the NASB,,,but I always check other versions if I have any doubt, or do not fully understand the passage.
I've never used Greek lexicons except when forced to by a member.
For instance...one time there was a discussion about the word DRAG in John and Acts.
I believe you might even remember this.
But no matter.

And did you mean exegesis? That's what I prefer, sticking to exactly what is written, nothing more, nothing less.

Hmmm. Of course we should use exegesis. I might have mispoken..won't go back to check.

If you want to have this discussion, I'm going to bring in a couple of other passages, which, as we agree, all our interpretations have to harmonize across the entire Scriptures.

I believe every verse is true exactly as written, taking into account, of course, metaphors and similies and other linguistic devices. These passages, are straightforward, and should be accepted for what they say.

I agree of course.

I like to make my point, and the post scriputre.
I know that you usually do this too.



1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

IF you are a child of God NOW, when He appears, we SHALL be like Him. Not, we may be like Him if we endure to the end, just, if you are His child now, you will be like Him then. No qualifiers to modify the meaning.[/QUOTE]
You're referring to eternal security?
But it's speaking to how the sons of God will appear when Jesus returns....

About THAT it states what I've been saying....
we cannot be sure exactly HOW that will be,,,
just as we cannot be sure about what kind of body Jesus had after the resurrection.

I'll address eternal security too, in case that's what you're referring to.

I do NOT believe OSAS is bilical...at all.
OSAS teaches that once a person is saved...he cannot lose his salvation NO MATTER WHAT HE DOES/HOW HE LIVES, etc.

So I'll refer to eternal security...
this teaches that AS LONG AS WE ARE IN CHRIST, WE WILL BE SAVED.

So 1 John 3:1-3 KJV
Verse 3 now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be:
At this time, now, we are the sons of God.
And indeed we are.
But you're stating that we do NOT have to endure till the end.
The NT teaches that we ARE to endure till the end.

You said we have to harmonize the NT...and indeed we do.
JESUS Himself taught that the hearts of some will grow cold
BUT

Matthew 24:12-13 jesus
12 And because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will become cold.
13 But the one who endures to the end is the one who will be saved.

I could get into this even more, but not sure this is what you were looking for.
for instance...John goes on to say in 1 John 3:4 that we are not to practice lawlessness...
Jesus spoke to this in Matthew 7....Jesus will not accept those who practice lawlessness.

The same thing is true in this passage:

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

If you are risen with Christ NOW, you SHALL appear with Him then. No other qualifiers. Anyone risen with Christ in this life will appear with Him in glory. None lost.

Much love!

Ah. So it is about eternal security.
I agree, of course.
Paul is saying that WHEN CHRIST APPEARS, WHO IS OUR LIFE, we shall also appear with Him in glory.

Agreed.
IF Christ is OUR LIFE,,,,which means we live for HIM....
when He appears we will also appear with Him in glory.

IF Christ is our life when He appears.

If we want to harmonize, we now have to show that, indeed, we could forfeit our salvation.

We must endure.
Already posted one verse.

Jesus repeats this in


Matthew 10:22 KJV
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.


Jesus repeats the possibility of forfeiture of salvation here:


Luke 15:24 KJV
24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.


Enduring to the end is a common theme in the NT.

Jesus stated in The Progical Son that he was ALIVE AGAIN.
This means that the son was:
ALIVE
DEAD
ALIVE AGAIN when he returned to the Father.

 

[markss]

So 1 John 3:1-3 KJV
Verse 3 now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be:
At this time, now, we are the sons of God.
And indeed we are.
But you're stating that we do NOT have to endure till the end.
The NT teaches that we ARE to endure till the end.

No, I'm not saying we don't have to endure. I'm saying according to this passage that we will endure, if in fact we are His children. All who are His children now will be like Him then.

This is plainly stated Scripture, and other passages need to be interpreted in harmony with plainly stated Scripture.

This isn't a matter of interpretation, this passage is written in simple and clear language. It tells us what will happen. It's prophecy, and prophecy will be fulfilled.

Much love!

 

[Toknow]

I agree with everything you said except for this.

This is where many people go off track. If the old covenant has been made obsolete (Hebrews 8:13), then it doesn't mean some parts are obsolete and some parts aren't. Further, there isn't any Scripture telling us which parts are "moral". Does that mean it's up to us? I don't think so.

Rather, I firmly believe that the nature of the new covenant is radically different than the old. In the new, we aren't given a list of "Thou shalt not's"; rather, we receive the Holy Spirit. He dwells in us and leads us, and therefore we have no need of external regulations.

It's not that we are now "permitted" to lie, lust, steal, or covet; rather, we are changed from the inside so that our core motivation is no longer toward sin, but toward righteousness.

The law was our tutor to lead us to Christ (Galatians 3:24). Now that we are in Christ, "we are no longer under the supervision of the law" (v. 25).

I agree with all of the above.

I know that Hebrews says something a bit different (Hebrews 8.13), but it's generally accepted that each new Covenant did not totally change the previous one, but made it better in some way.., changed it in some way.

The New Covenant has retained the Moral Law...but has made the other Laws obsolete.
Hebrews 10:26 states that if we go on sinning willfully after the knowledge of truth, there remains no further sacrifice for sins.
What would those sins be?
They are moral in nature.
God's Moral Law will never be obsolete.

So, as you've described, the METHOD of keeping the Moral Law has changed....
but it has not been abolished.

Hebrews 10:35-36
35 Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.
36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive [l]what was promised.


God's will is that we follow His Moral Law.
His Moral Law is the Ten Commandments and anything Jesus commanded.

But interiorly, as you've stated.

 

[Dino246]

I agree with all of the above.

I know that Hebrews says something a bit different (Hebrews 8.13), but it's generally accepted that each new Covenant did not totally change the previous one, but made it better in some way.., changed it in some way.

The New Covenant has retained the Moral Law...but has made the other Laws obsolete.
Hebrews 10:26 states that if we go on sinning willfully after the knowledge of truth, there remains no further sacrifice for sins.
What would those sins be?
They are moral in nature.
God's Moral Law will never be obsolete.

So, as you've described, the METHOD of keeping the Moral Law has changed....
but it has not been abolished.

Hebrews 10:35-36
35 Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.
36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive [l]what was promised.


God's will is that we follow His Moral Law.
His Moral Law is the Ten Commandments and anything Jesus commanded.

But interiorly, as you've stated.

Please cite the Scripture that clearly states which parts of the Law are “Moral”.

 

[Toknow]

No, I'm not saying we don't have to endure. I'm saying according to this passage that we will endure, if in fact we are His children. All who are His children now will be like Him then.

This is plainly stated Scripture, and other passages need to be interpreted in harmony with plainly stated Scripture.

This isn't a matter of interpretation, this passage is written in simple and clear language. It tells us what will happen. It's prophecy, and prophecy will be fulfilled.

Much love!

The scripture I provided is not plain?

Scirpture teaches that those who endure will be saved.

THOSE WHO ENDURE
means that some will NOT endure.

ONLY those who endure WILL BE SAVED.

Can't be plainer than that markss.

And we don't pick ONE VERSE and then try to make many other verses agree with it.

ALL of scripture must be reconciled with scripture.

NOT just one verse that you may have picked out for whatever reason.

 

[markss]

Scirpture teaches that those who endure will be saved.

What is the context? Jesus was speaking to those who would endure the great tribulation.

Much love!

 

[markss]

And we don't pick ONE VERSE and then try to make many other verses agree with it.

ALL of scripture must be reconciled with scripture.

NOT just one verse that you may have picked out for whatever reason.

They must all reconcile. Even just one verse, we need to interpret in ways that don't overturn the saying of even one passage.

These verses make specific statements in the clear context of our salvation.

Is it time to move on to the next topic?

Much love!

 

[Toknow]

Please cite the Scripture that clearly states which parts of the Law are “Moral”.

I believe I went through this with another member and won't be spending time on this again.

The OT has many laws, as you know.
BIBLICAL SCHOLARS have broken them down into there categories.
CEREMONIAL
CIVIL
MORAL

Must leave soon so will not be providing examples since you might not even accept this.

I beleive I stated which parts of the Law are Moral:
The 10 commandments
Anything Jesus commanded


You have moral in quotation marks which means that you deny moral law in some way.
You could explain that, or not, but there is a Moral Law in scripture.

THOU SHALT NOT is an example.
DO NOT HATE is another.

You don't have to accept this and I'm not spending time debating a non-salvific issue.

 

[markss]

Please cite the Scripture that clearly states which parts of the Law are “Moral”.

James 2:8-11 KJV
8) If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9) But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10) For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11) For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

I don't see where we have the place to divide the Law into different parts. Here above James includes loving others and not showing favoritism, which are not the 10 commandments, right alongside adultery and murder, which are. So how can you separate the 10 commandments from all the other commandments?

This passage does not allow that. The Law is a single thing, and it is either kept in it's entirety (The Law and The Prophets, "all that you say we will do"), or it is broken, and you are a lawbreaker. In other words, the Law is binary, you either keep it or you don't. Period.

The heart of the Law is not a list of rules. It's will they obey God?

Much love!

 

[Toknow]

What is the context? Jesus was speaking to those who would endure the great tribulation.

Much love!

So everyone who ENDURES the TRIBULATION will be saved.
I thought the saved were going to be raptured away?

Let's try this:

Hebrews 3:14
14For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.

Here we must hold OUR CONFIDENSE till the end....
We must hold on to what we have learned and relied upon till the end.

No tribulation mentioned.


Matthew 10:22
22And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.


No tribulation mentioned.


Colossian 1:22
22He has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him, if indeed you continue in the faith,


No tribulation mentioned.


Indeed, scripture MUST be harmonized with scripture.

Keeping our faith till the end....is a common teaching in the NT.

No faith = No salvation...

WHENEVER that may happen: Before or After being born again.