Loss of salvation???

[Just_A__Follower]

I posted that information, but you cherry picker types don't believe al;l the Lord says in His Word so you people think drinking booze and suicide aren't sinful behavior

The future don't look too bright for you bud.

Matt 7:3-5

 

[kinda]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Predestination sorta has you already slotted in for your destination, and Arminians believe it sorta depends on the weather.


"Predestination is the theological doctrine that God has eternally ordained all events and individual destinies (especially salvation) beforehand, while free will asserts that humans have the capacity to make independent choices, including accepting or rejecting God"




Armenism verses..

• John 3:16: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life" (suggests a universal offer of salvation).
• 1 John 2:2: "He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world".
  
  
  • 1 Timothy 2:4: "[God] desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth".
• • 2 Peter 3:9: The Lord is "not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance".
• • John 12:32: Jesus indicates He will "draw all men to [Himself]".
    

 

[kinda]

.Predestination verses

• Ephesians 1:4-5, 11 (ESV): "...even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ... having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will".
• Romans 8:29-30 (ESV): "For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son... And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified".
• Romans 9:15-16 (ESV): "For he says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.' So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy".
• John 6:37, 44 (ESV): "All that the Father gives me will come to me... No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him".

 

[Wansvic]

No, my friend. You conveniently left out verse 38 in Acts 2. Also, the middle wall of partition didn't come down until after the fall of Israel. Some of you Gentiles seem to love leaving out key elements in scripture to defend your false teaching pastors whom you love and follow for reasons I cannot fathom. Salvation is of the Jews, just as scripture declares, and yet Gentiles the world over ignore that with gleeful abandon without consideration for the ramifications.

But, you're free to believe the lies taught to you by whatever liars you choose to follow after.

MM

You may want to read my entire posts before making false accusations.

What I posted first pertained to the purpose of the feast at Pentecost. Afterward I addressed verse 38, as it reveals how the hearers who believe can become part of the second harvest as foreshadowed in the the OT.

The following is a direct quote from my post: "Back to Acts 2, the next verse indicates the hearers wanted to know what they must do in order to be part of this the beginning of the second harvest. Pentecost was the fourth feast held fifty days after Firstfruits; where more crops were harvested then at Firstfruits. "Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Peter said, Repent, and be baptized EVERYONE of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin and you shall receive the Holy Ghost." (37-38) The same message was then carried into all nations."

I also pointed out the scripture that reveals Jesus dealt with the wall of partition at the cross:
"Per your statement concerning the wall of partition. According to Ephesians 2:14-16, Jesus dealt with the wall of partition between Jew and Gentile at the cross, during his crucifixion."

 

[Kroogz]

To some extent, you're correct. However, Abraham was an important example of faith, along with many others throughout our history among the great prophets, not to mention Christ Jesus Himself having been sent unto us through whom salvation came to mankind. Because of our status as His chosen people for events and a Kingdom that will one day be realized on this earth, I would hope Gentiles would be more respectful and loving rather than to paint us all with the same coloring as for those who are indeed deserving of your derision.

So, please be careful when casting disparaging comments against a people whom you should be praying for rather than putting down with such broad brush strokes of veiled condemnation. My appeals absolutely are not an attempt to uphold all the known scoundrels throughout our history. I could say the same of you in relation to Gentiles...that you still sin to this very day, as do all others in this world. We all are still beholden to ancient Israel because of the unfathomable blessings and the Kingdom promised to Israel that will one day be realized in the near future. You and even I as an Israeli won't be there in that city, but those who will have in their number men whose stature you couldn't even hope to aspire in this life.

I pray for my fellow Jews and for Gentiles alike, loving all in spite of the scoundrels and scum among us.

MM

Don't get me wrong. I love Israel and I know that God isn't finished with them. But they are blind......for now.

Rom 11:25
For I do not want you, brothers and sisters, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;

Israel will once again be a great nation for God. However, the Church is His family/bride. Israel has SEEN, the Church goes by FAITH. We have the very righteousness of Christ......A stature Israel will stand in AWE of.

 

[Wansvic]

Your love for straw man argumentation is also telling in your continued defense of lies. I never said Paul discouraged water baptism. That you fail to read what I have actually stated betrays the foundations undergirding your manic push to stay the course of lies and deceptions in not only theological mooring but also in simple discussion with others.

MM

You may find it helpful to reread my post. It actually reveals that the OT command of circumcision is what Paul was addressing. The discussion had nothing to do with the NT command of water baptism in the name of Jesus for remission of sin.

 

[Wansvic]

Whatever...

MM

Peter's vision revealed that the Gentiles were no longer to be considered "unclean" or separated from God's people.

"And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean." Acts 10:28

 

[HeIsHere]

How long have you been perfecting your act?

I think it still has a way to go.

 

[studier]

It was a basic analogy of a father and child working together but the child not contributing to the outcome. You may have read too far into it.

As I said, I read it and realize what you are attempting to say. In salvation, the child IS the truck the Father is working on—you cannot 'repair' a volitional will while the child remains 100% passive.

 

[markss]

—you cannot 'repair' a volitional will while the child remains 100% passive.

For myself I've learned to not limit what God may do. He can repair your will in any manner He wants to. Sometimes it's by His Own doing alone, I know this in fact.

Much love!

 

[HigherGospel]

Matt 7:3-5

 

[HigherGospel]

For myself I've learned to not limit what God may do. He can repair your will in any manner He wants to. Sometimes it's by His Own doing alone, I know this in fact.

In other words God did not create man in His Own Image meaning man has free will?

God made man to be a robot and when men act sinful it's God's fault for failing to change the man's will?

How calvinist of you to embrace such false doctrine.

I read it. You have God saving a truck.

He also thinks mankind is on the same level as angels and God did not create man in His Own Image which is claiming God is a liar.

And does not accept that born again men are IN Christ not knowing Christ is above the angels.

 

[studier]

For myself I've learned to not limit what God may do. He can repair your will in any manner He wants to. Sometimes it's by His Own doing alone, I know this in fact.

Much love!

Understood and would require specifics to discuss. In regard to what's going on here, this is really IMO a discussion about what genuine faith is and includes.

 

[markss]

In other words God did not create man in His Own Image meaning man has free will?

God made man to be a robot and when men act sinful it's God's fault for failing to change the man's will?

How calvinist of you to embrace such false doctrin

I think you are reading into my words more than I'm saying.

But that God repairs men's wills is evident in Scripture.

Philippians 2:12-13 KJV
12) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Much love!

 

[Toknow]

OXYMORON.

Wanted to get back to this oxymoron idea.

What I had said was this:

WE ARE SAVED BY ONLY FAITH.

BUT NOT BY FAITH ALONE.

JUSTIFICATION:

We are saved by faith in God.
Just as in the OT.
Just as anywhere in the world where a person comes to have faith in God.
Yesterday, today or tomorrow.

ONLY FAITH saves a person.
We could try to be good all our lives and do all the best good works we can,
but if we don't have faith in God - our works will amount to nothing.


SANCTIFICATION:

Once we are saved....FAITH ALONE will not save us, or keep us saved - I think you like this term better.
Why will FAITH ALONE not keep us saved?
Because it's not what the NT teaches.

Faith Alone is a new idea which would be monerfism. As you know the reformed believe in monergism.

The rest of Christianity has always believed in synergism.

Because faith cannot stand alone...
it must be active.

Paul said if we do not have LOVE,,, we're like a clanging bell.
Paul, who penned Ephesians 2:8 said that we have to have love. (will avoid using the word "must").

Paul just ADDED SOMETHING TO FAITH.
So....faith alone does not describe the Christian person.

Faith Alone,,,being by itself, is a dead faith.
It's dead.

To be alive, it must function...our faith has to be an active faith.

Here is what I teach. Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is (evidenced) by works. (James 2:14-24)

You're saying this:

Here is what I teach. Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is (evidenced) by works. (James 2:14-24)


in your opinion, are we stating the same concept?

Your saying that works prove our salvation.

So if we DO NOT have works,,,then we're lost.

Right?

*Jesus saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. (Romans 3:24-26) Not to be confused with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" barren of works. (James 2:14)

But this is NOT what FAITH ALONE means.
I've known for a long time that we basically agree but there's some nuance here that I can't grasp.
I believe you have an incorrect understanding of FAITH ALONE.
Could you describe it please?

People that believe in FAITH ALONE believe that they don't have to do ANYTHING in order to "remain" saved......I'd say, instead of remain...I'd use the term have a relationship with God. it takes two.

YOU don't seem to believe this (faith alone) by your statement that faith DOES produce good works.
So it would not be what is commonly known as FAITH ALONE.

It is through faith "in Jesus Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*

OK
You've gone from justification to sanctification,,,but agreed.

My teaching is much older than that and comes straight out of scripture.

The Apostles come straight out of scripture.
If you're speaking of the Apostolic Fathers,,,,
they taught exactly what the Apostles taught...
and they agreed on fundamental doctrine.

FOR salvation or AFTER salvation?

I'm always speaking about AFTER salvation.
We agree 100% on how salvation is obtained.

 

[Toknow]

I think you are reading into my words more than I'm saying.

But that God repairs men's wills is evident in Scripture.

Philippians 2:12-13 KJV
12) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Much love!

markss

I know you're not reformed in theology...
it's just that calvinists use Philippians 2:12-13 to show that God changes the heart...
literally and not in the way you mean it.

All Christians believe that God works in us to make us better.
We all believe God desires us to will what HE would have us to will.
But WITH our cooperation...WITH our free will.

sorry for cutting in.

 

[Toknow]

My name is not Jeff, plus I am not a man.

I think it is a fair question since you go..... on and on and on and on .... about obedience.

Yes Jeff.

I happen to believe that God wants obedience from His creatures....us.

You can believe that God does not want our obedience.

Fne with me.
I'm here to post,,,not to judge.

God does that.

 

[Toknow]

Agreed!

I agree too Kroogz.
Nothing more important for a Christian than obeying God.

 

[Toknow]

Toknow said:
HOW do you know what I do?
WHY is this so personal to you?

Can we just keep this to theology and keep out the personal questions and comments?

Hmmmm.
But you're not denying it.

It's OK to be reformed Kroogz...
At least the reformed believe Jesus is God and thus in the Trinity.
Some Christians don't even believe Jesus is God !!

And again,

I will post even though I'm a girl....

The reformed don't believe I should.
Kinda like the Muslims.

Just don't read my posts.

 

[Kroogz]

Hmmmm.
But you're not denying it.

It's OK to be reformed Kroogz...
At least the reformed believe Jesus is God and thus in the Trinity.
Some Christians don't even believe Jesus is God !!

And again,

I will post even though I'm a girl....

The reformed don't believe I should.
Kinda like the Muslims.

Just don't read my posts.

Toknow said:
HOW do you know what I do?
WHY is this so personal to you?

Can we just keep this to theology and keep out the personal questions and comments?