The Sin Nature is spiritual lust, not flesh and blood.
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I've been looking over your post, the problem is, none of the verses you've posted actually tell us this.
Is it your thinking that the "spiritual body" is where sin lives?
1 Corinthians 15:42-49 YLT
42) So also is the rising again of the dead: it is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption;
43) it is sown in dishonour, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
44) it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body; there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body;
45) so also it hath been written, 'The first man Adam became a living creature,' the last Adam is for a life-giving spirit,
46) but that which is spiritual is not first, but that which was natural, afterwards that which is spiritual.
47) The first man is out of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord out of heaven;
48) as is the earthy, such are also the earthy; and as is the heavenly, such are also the heavenly;
49) and, according as we did bear the image of the earthy, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly.
This passage seems to tell me that the spiritual body is in our resurrection, not the present life, and that we "shall bear" future the image of the heavenly.
This does not sound as though the spiritual body, which correspondes to the heavenly, is the home of sin.
No, it's the body. Just as it says.
There is the fall, of course, when what God made that was good became corrupted.
Much love!
Here's what I add Dan:Do you "add" water baptism to the equation of saved by grace through faith?
OBEDIENCE TO CHRIST.
If HE said it
We DO it.
If we "add" obedience to Christ "after" salvation to obedience to Christ "in order to obtain" salvation then, we end up teaching salvation by works. Also, how many of us have perfectly obeyed Christ 100% of the time? Salvation by imperfect obedience is a slippery slope that culminates in works-righteousness.
Yes, the term SALVATION BY WORKS is a very scary term.
Maybe it means that Jesus actually expects something from you?
Yes sir.
And it is rather scary for some to believe that Jesus might actually expect someting from those that claim to believe in Him.
(those "true" believers you keep referring to )
Jesus expects us to do good works...
to be fruitful.
Jesus gave the fig tree ONE MORE YEAR to produce fruit,,
and then it would be CUT DOWN due to unfruitfulness.
We must bear fruit.
John 15:2
2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away;
Go ahead....twist it and go to the Greek and do everything you can to DENY the teaching of Jesus.
But, yes sir, YOU are a "true" believer.
YOU believe everything Jesus taught.
OR do you?
Wouldn't "going to the Greek" be a way to affirm and not deny Jesus' teaching?
Much love!
The fig tree was Israel. It didn’t produce fruit and was cut down.
Your usual strawman.
Not responding to strawmen.
I'll say this:
We are saved by faith.
jesus said we will be judged by our actions:
John 5:28-29
28 Do not be amazed at this; for [l]a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come out: those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the bad deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
Paul, of course, agrees:
Romans 2:5-8
5 But [f]because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who will repay each person according to his deeds:
7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life;
8 but to those who are self-serving and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give wrath and indignation.
To those who did good....honor and immortality.
To those who obey UNRIGHTEOUSNESS (not being right with God)....wrath and indignation.
And how are we NOT RIGHT with God?
By being LAWLESS.
Matthew 7:23
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; leave Me, you who practice lawlessness.
Can't get away from truth.
Scripture is consitent and will never disagree with itself.
NO!
See my post no. 167 regarding John 15.2 and how the other member is describing the words TAKE AWAY.
It can come in handy,,,but very few times.
oops!
That post is in another thread , I think.
Let me check...be back.
In regard to John 5:28-29, Jesus is describing those who did good deeds (believers) and will receive a resurrection of life. Jesus is not saying that these believers were saved based on the merits of their good deeds. What did Jesus say was the basis or means of receiving eternal life in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26? *Not good deeds. What did Paul say in Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9? *Not good deeds either. Jesus goes on to describe those who committed evil deeds (unbelievers) to a resurrection of judgment.
*We see the same descriptive language in Romans 2:5-8. These good deeds done are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving eternal life.
So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal.
*Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath.
*Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9). What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means by which we receive eternal life, but the type of deeds expose our heart condition and salvation status.
These good deeds done out of faith are the fruit of, but not the root of salvation. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. *Also see (Romans 3:24-28; 4:4-6; 11:6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).
In regard to Matthew 7:23, ALL unbelievers are considered lawless in the eyes of God apart from authentic faith in Jesus Christ, the blood of Jesus Christ to wash away our sins and the imputed righteousness of God. So, you can't get away from the truth. Scripture must harmonize with scripture.
markss
Sorry 'bout that.
The post I wanted to share with you is in a different thread on LOSS OF SALVATION.
It's my post. no. 6938 in reply to John 15.2 where it states that God will TAKE AWAY and a member said that it means
"to lift up". (wrong)
Here is my post so you don't have to look for it:
Takes Away DOES NOT MEAN to lift up.....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
15 minutes ago
#6,938
Kroogz said:
airei airei G142 vi Pres Act 3 Sg He-IS-LIFTING
Nothing about loss of salvation.
If you fall in the dirt, He lifts you up so you can produce.
A benevolent God.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My reply to Kroogz:
I see you "went to the Greek".
Did you happen to notice that there were different meanings?
Of course you chose the one YOU LIKED....
but that makes NO SENSE.
Did you know that in Greece there's a severe shortage of water and grape is grown down at the ground?
NO NEED TO LIFT UP.
It means what the translators of the Greek KNOW it means.....
2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He [a]prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
1. God TAKES AWAY the branches that are not fruitful.
2. God prunes that ones that are so that they produce EVEN MORE!
3. Still in doubt?
Read the following...
John 5:6
6 If anyone does not remain in Me, he is thrown away like a branch and dries up; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
in John 5:2 jesus is speaking about those IN HIM.
IF we do NOT REMAIN IN HIM...
we will be THROWN AWAY like a branch that dries up, is gathered and burned in the fire.
Your Greek will not function here.
In regard to John 15:2, Jesus makes a distinction between branches "in" a vine and branches which "abide in" the vine. Merely being self-attached and close to the source of life is not enough and neither is being intertwined with other branches. Only branches that have that vital connection with the vine will bear fruit. A good vinedresser cuts out those dead, fruitless branches and burns them.
The analogy Jesus presents here is not about loss of salvation, but about those who put on an appearance of faith but have no spiritual and vital connection with the vine. We cannot presume that everyone who appears to have a vital connection with the vine (Judas Iscariot for example) truly does.
As Greek scholar AT Robertson points out:
In me (εν εμο). Two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit, the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). The fruitless (not bearing fruit, μη φερον καρπον) the vine-dresser "takes away" (αιρε) or prunes away. Probably (Bernard) Jesus here refers to Judas. John 15 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org
It was still cut down due to UNFRUITFULNESS.
And your reply to John 15:2 ??
2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away;
Every brand IN JESUS
that does NOT BEAR FRUIT
God takes away.....
And why is it necessary to debate whether or not we need to obey God?
Actually "to lift and carry away" is a valid translation. Regardless of how one interprets the passage, it is in fact a valid translation.
Let me ask you . . . do you think that in saying "If anyone does not remain in me", does this mean someone was in Christ, and now is not?
"remain", "abide", "dwell", these are valid translations of the word. I can point to millions of houses where I don't live, I don't abide there, I don't remain there, I don't dwell there . . . and I never did.
Notice also that those that don't abide in Christ are not called branches. They are only compared to branches. Those who abide in Christ are branches. Those who do not are compared to branched.
Much love!
I am not obligated to comment on every part of your post.
That’s either silly or ignorant.
Do you stone adulterers? Do you attend the temple three times each year? Do you summon a priest when your shower grout gets mouldy? All those are God’s commands. Are you supposed to obey God or not?
Typical of those that want t distort scripture.
Here is the scripture again....you're adding to it,,,as usual.
John 5:28-29
28 Do not be amazed at this; for [l]a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come out: those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the bad deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
Romans 2:5-8
5 But [f]because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who will repay each person according to his deeds:
7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life;
8 but to those who are self-serving and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give wrath and indignation.
Those who wish to obey Jesus read the above and understand it.
Those who want to twist the words of Jesus, for whatever reason,,,will not understand it and they will add their own words to what Jesus has stated.
Jesus needs no help from you.
He was a good communicator and we should heed what HE taught.
Instead of carpet bombing (difficult to break old habits)
why not EXPLAIN, with scripture,
why we should listen to YOU instead of Jesus when His words are plain?
Where is the word MERIT in what Jesus stated, for example?
I don't see it.
You do.
Why?
Right.
God gives eternal life to those that continue in doing well.
He is describing those that WILL RECEIVE eternal life.
They will CONTINUE in DOING WELL.
Right again.
Those that are unrighteous - not right with God - will receive indignation and wrath.
Who are the unrighteous?
The lawless...those that do not follow the Law of Christ.....His commandments.
Jesus warned about hypocrites...those that SAY but DO NOT DO.
Jesus wants us TO DO.
He wants us to ACT ON HIS WORDS.
Matthew 23:3
3 Therefore, whatever they tell you, do and [a]comply with it all, but do not do [b]as they do; for they say things and do not do them.
*Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9). What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means by which we receive eternal life, but the type of deeds expose our heart condition and salvation status.
These good deeds done out of faith are the fruit of, but not the root of salvation. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. *Also see (Romans 3:24-28; 4:4-6; 11:6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).
In regard to Matthew 7:23, ALL unbelievers are considered lawless in the eyes of God apart from authentic faith in Jesus Christ, the blood of Jesus Christ to wash away our sins and the imputed righteousness of God. So, you can't get away from the truth. Scripture must harmonize with scripture.[/QUOTE]
Were the other comments out of your range?
Too uncomfortable?
No good reply?
it's SILLY or IGNORANT for a Christian person to wonder WHY Christians are debating whether or not it's necessary to obey God?
Do YOU believe it's necessary to obey God?
Maybe YOU are under the Law Dino...
but I am NOT.
I already thoroughly covered this. No distortion. I properly harmonized scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine. Your confusion and hostility towards my post demonstrates that you are advocating salvation by works.