The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

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Are you saying God is "drawing a line" between believers who practice Shabbat and believers who do not? Also what are people to come out of - Churches who do not keep Shabbat?


I'm not talking about keeping Shabbat.

God’s people need to get out of churches that no longer honor any of God’s sound doctrine.


🕊
 
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You're post-trib aren't you? I believe God was warning you. Because to be warned about Jacob's trouble as a post-trib believer means Gentile Christians will be targeted too.

When do you think this will happen? Has God said anything to you? I'm guestimating in the 2030s. What things are you looking out for?


🕊

For the visions I rarely see beyond 15 years i had these visions about 7 years ago. as for the tribulation I did research this last year based on scripture, i wrote an article on lt, but had to remove pauline scripture for this simple canalysis it clashed with the rest of scripture that is consistant regarting the end times. By added Pauline scripture I could not come to a consensus with the rest of biblical scripture. Unless you see a way to reconcile? if you do i would appreciate if you let me know.

The ribulation: Part I: Refinement, Not Removal

Abstract
This study explores the theological purpose of tribulation as presented in the the Bible—specifically, the prophetic writings, the teachings of Jesus, and the Book of Revelation. Excluding the Pauline doctrine of rapture and related eschatological constructs, the central argument advanced here is that tribulation serves not as divine abandonment or escape, but as a refining process through which faith, character, and covenant fidelity are purified and revealed. Across Scripture, tribulation emerges as an instrument of transformation rather than removal.

1. Introduction
The concept of the “Great Tribulation” has long been a subject of eschatological debate. Many interpretations emphasize deliverance from suffering, particularly through the notion of a pre-tribulational rapture. Yet, when the Pauline epistles are set aside, a different pattern and consistent story emerges across the Hebrew prophets, the teachings of Jesus, and the Revelation of John.

In these sources, tribulation is consistently depicted as a necessary refinement of the faithful rather than their escape from adversity. The people of God are not portrayed as removed from trial, but as purified through it. This understanding aligns with a broader biblical theology in which suffering functions as a divine crucible for authenticity and faithfulness.

2. Refinement in the Prophetic Tradition
2.1 Zechariah: The Remnant Through Fire

Zechariah 13:9 declares, “I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and test them as gold is tested.”
Here, tribulation is represented not as punitive destruction but as a process of purification. The “third part,” symbolizing the faithful remnant, endures divine testing that burns away impurity while preserving the essence of covenant loyalty.

In Hebrew prophetic thought, fire is primarily transformative rather than annihilative. It is the means by which God restores holiness among His people.

2.2 Daniel: Purification Before Deliverance
In Daniel 12:1–10, a “time of trouble” precedes final deliverance. The righteous are described as those who are “purified, made white, and refined.” This imagery depicts tribulation as an eschatological furnace in which moral integrity and faith are distinguished from rebellion and corruption.

The sequence is instructive: refinement precedes deliverance, implying that salvation itself arises from faithfulness under pressure, not immunity from it.

3. Jesus’ Teaching: Endurance as Faithfulness
In the Synoptic Gospels, particularly the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24), Jesus speaks plainly about suffering and persecution that will befall His followers. He does not promise their removal from tribulation but insists upon their endurance within it:


“Then they will hand you over to be persecuted… but the one who endures to the end will be saved” (Matthew 24:9–13).

Endurance (hypomonē) signifies steadfast perseverance. Salvation, therefore, is not the avoidance of tribulation but the demonstration of fidelity in its midst.

Similarly, in John 16:33, Jesus assures His disciples, “In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.” His victory does not eliminate the experience of suffering but grants meaning and hope within it.

The agricultural metaphor of pruning in John 15:2 reinforces this truth: even fruitful branches are cut back so that they might yield more. Divine pruning parallels the refining fire—both serve to deepen fruitfulness and spiritual maturity.

4. Revelation: Purity Through Perseverance
The Book of Revelation continues and completes this pattern. Believers are not depicted as absent during the world’s trials but as sealed and sustained through them. The vision of the multitude in Revelation 7:14 identifies them as those who “have come out of the great tribulation,” having “washed their robes… in the blood of the Lamb.”

Their purity is the result of endurance and faith under suffering. The saints are refined by faithfulness amid persecution, not by exemption from it. Likewise, in Revelation 3:18, Christ counsels the church to acquire “gold refined by fire,” emphasizing the necessity of purification before participation in divine glory.

Thus, Revelation’s theology of tribulation mirrors the prophets and Jesus: God’s people are preserved through testing and perfected by it.

5. The Biblical Pattern of Refinement
Throughout Scripture, the motif of refinement follows a consistent logic:


Biblical Example Nature of Trial Divine Purpose Noah’s FloodGlobal judgmentRenewal through a purified remnantIsrael’s WildernessHardship and testingFormation of covenant identityBabylonian ExileNational sufferingRestoration of faith and repentanceEnd-Time TribulationGlobal crisisRevelation and perfection of true faith
Across these episodes, the faithful are preserved within crisis, not spared from it. God’s justice and mercy operate simultaneously: judgment exposes evil, while suffering refines love and loyalty.

6. Theological Implications
From this perspective, three implications arise:

  1. Tribulation Reveals Authentic Faith
    Adversity exposes the heart’s allegiance. Those truly devoted to God are revealed under pressure, while superficial faith falls away.
  2. Tribulation Purifies the People of God
    Like silver in a furnace, believers are spiritually cleansed through hardship. Suffering becomes a medium of sanctification.
  3. Tribulation Prepares for Renewal
    The end-time distress serves as birth pains for the new creation. Just as creation groans before redemption, so humanity is refined before restoration.
Thus, tribulation functions not as divine punishment upon the faithful but as divine preparation for the fullness of God’s kingdom.

7. Conclusion
In the witness of the prophets, the Gospels, and Revelation, tribulation is never portrayed as a means of removing God’s people from the world. Instead, it is the means by which they are transformed within it.

The fire of tribulation purifies; it distinguishes the genuine from the false, the steadfast from the superficial. The refining process culminates not in despair but in redemption — the emergence of a people made radiant through endurance.

Hence, the theology of tribulation, reveals this central biblical truth:
God’s purpose in tribulation is not escape, but refinement; not destruction, but purification; not abandonment, but preparation for glory.

many will disagree and if you do no problem let me know, I value your opinion.
 
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I know that Jesus, who is called the Word, carried out the work of creation according to the will of the Father. As a human He was also sent to bring about the Father's will. It is also true that if we keep the Son's commandments we will be in agreement with the Father's will and with the commands Moses' gave .

However, it does not always work the other way. Attempting to conform ourselves to the letter of Moses' Law does not always bring us into fruitful harmony the Spirit of the Law. When I lived in Israel I discovered that many who zealously pursued the teachings of the Rabbis denied JESUS commands, insisting that what goes on in our minds and imaginations DOES NOT MATTER. The ONLY thing that is important is our BEHAVIOR not our thoughts and motivations. Not having the Holy Spirit, these people could not be radically transformed by the power of the Holy Spirit which is what the Father wanted to accomplish when He gave us the Holy Spirit.
I appreciate the response and your opinion, but if you don't mind lets look at what the Scriptures actually says.

I think there is a lot of confusion about the law of God and the law of Moses. Many people think the law of God is Moses law, but its not. Moses wrote a different law, that was placed outside the ark of God's Covenant Deut31:24-26 that contained everything except the Ten Commandments. Lets examine these Scriptures, they are really written so plainly in our Bibles.

God’s name (not Moses) is in each one of these commandments and He takes ownership of them not just in the words itself, but He did not leave His holy and eternal Law to be written by man, God divinely wrote them Himself, not just once but twice. He wrote them in stone for its eternal nature and then He writes His laws in our heart 2Cor3:3 Heb 8:10 The first 4 commandments show how to love God and the last 6 how we love our neighbor. They cover so much more than people realize Psa 119:96 just as Jesus taught from this same unit Mat 5:19-30

Exo 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying:
2 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of [a]bondage.
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor [b]serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting[c] the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

I personally do not see how Scripture could be clearer about whose Law is the Ten Commandments and Moses the creation and servant of God, is not God the Creator of everything Exo 20:11. Moses own testimony said the Ten Commandments is God’s work not his, so why do so many insist it’s the law of Moses so we no longer need to keep them when there is not one Scripture in context that says this.

Deu 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Deu 5:22 "These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

Exo 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

Exo 32:16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets.

So Moses who wrote Exodus did not even take credit for God's Ten Commandments and he was there. God's standard of doing what is right Psa 119:172 Isa 56:1-2 never changes Psa 119:142 because God changes not. Why Jesus plainly taught He did not come to destroy His law Mat5:17-30 but came to fulfill and He predicted He would magnify His law Isa 42:21 and He did that by writing His laws in our hearts and minds and giving us the power to keep them through subjecting ourselves to His Spirit John14:15-18. Why its still a sin to worship other gods or steal from our neighbor. 1John3:4 James 2:10-12 why all Ten Commandments is under God's mercy seat Exo25:21 that is in heaven Rev15:5 Rev11:19 because final atonement for our sins has not happened yet, and God's standard of what is right is how we are judged and He didn't leave it up to man to write He personally wrote it and claimed them as a unit of Ten as His Deut4:13 Exo20:6 and God's people keep them until the very end. Rev12:17 Rev14:12 Rev22:14KJV
 
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During many seasons of my life, I kept Shabbat - when I lived in Israel and when I attended Messianic congregations. However, after studying the matter I no longer believe Sabbath-keeping is a requirement for those who, through Christ's blood, been made partakers of the New Covenant.

Here is what the author of Hebrews said on the matter:
6But now He [Christ] has obtained a more excellent ministry, as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has better promises.
Believers have been brought into a NEW COVENANT with God, one that is vastly superior to the original one. The author of Hebrews says this: In speaking of a NEW covenant, he makes the FIRST ONE obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away (Hebrews 8:13)
So God intended to replace the first covenant by rendering it obsolete.
But thats only part of the story.

God said He would not have changed the covenant had it not been for the people not continuing it the covenant. By their lack of covet faithfulness they broke the covenant so God was no longer in a Covenant relationship with His people.

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord

He almost disregarded His people, but God is long sufferings, so He did make the Old Covenant obsolete - a covenant just means an agreement. God said He would write a new agreement/ covenant established on better promises Heb8:6 not new or better laws because God's laws are perfect Psa 19:7 holy, just and good Rom 7:12 the issue was never with the Law of God, it was with the harden heart of man and sin. So this new covenant is established on the better promised of what God will do- He places His laws from tablets of stone to tablets of the hearts 2Cor3:3 same laws different location so they become part of us, written in the minds so we know to do them, written in our hearts because we want to do them through love to God and man, Which keeps the promise of God that He will not alter His words of His covenant Psa 89:34 not a jot or tittle Mat5:18-19 why its still a sin to break the least of these commandments in the NC 1John3:4 James 2:10-12 Mat5:19-30 we can still reject the covenant relationship with God by rejecting God's laws Rom8:7-8 what He wrote in our hearts, but if we submit to His Spirit He is the one enabling us to keep them through faith and love and His power John14:15-18
 
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'What good is keeping the sabbath if you covet your neighbor's apple tree?
Likewise what good is not coveting if we are going to profane God's Sabbath. In fact God related breaking the Sabbath with idol worship Eze20:16 which is coveting Col3:5 they are all interconnected, why breaking one we break them all.

They all came in a unit of Ten Deut4:13 Exo34:28, not nine, all Ten under God's mercy seat because it what's atones for sin. Sin is breaking the law of God 1John3:4 breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12 why Jesus taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments as one would be in fear of sin and judgement Mat5:19-30
 
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Likewise what good is not coveting if we are going to profane God's Sabbath. In fact God related breaking the Sabbath with idol worship Eze20:16 which is coveting Col3:5 they are all interconnected, why breaking one we break them all.

They all came in a unit of Ten Deut4:13 Exo34:28, not nine, all Ten under God's mercy seat because it what's atones for sin. Sin is breaking the law of God 1John3:4 breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12 why Jesus taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments as one would be in fear of sin and judgement Mat5:19-30
Which of the commandment have you taught have been relaxed in order that your righteousness now exceeds the pharisees? I mean, surely, your righteousness exceeds the pharisees, doesn't it?
 
why Jesus taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments as one would be in fear of sin and judgement Mat5:19-30
This is what Jesus actually stated:
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least IN(IN) the kingdom of heaven''

So the above refers to the Ten Commandments?
So if you murder, commit adultery, steal, you will be considered least IN(IN) the kingdom of heaven? Doesn't sound right to me!
Possibly Jesus was referring to what he is teaching the people, that is the these he was referring to, IE:
“Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven,''

But if you think murderers, adulterers, those who steal will be called least IN the kingdom of Heaven, you are entitled to that view I suppose, sounds antinomian to me though
 
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This is what Jesus actually stated:
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least IN(IN) the kingdom of heaven''

So the above refers to the Ten Commandments?
So if you murder, commit adultery, steal, you will be considered least IN(IN) the kingdom of heaven? Doesn't sound right to me!
Possibly Jesus was referring to what he is teaching the people, that is the these he was referring to, IE:
“Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven,''

But if you think murderers, adulterers, those who steal will be called least IN the kingdom of Heaven, you are entitled to that view I suppose, sounds antinomian to me though

The blessings is not the commandments of God. Jesus quoted the commandments He was referring to and least in heaven means one is not there according to the next verse. Mat5:19-30
 
Which of the commandment have you taught have been relaxed in order that your righteousness now exceeds the pharisees? I mean, surely, your righteousness exceeds the pharisees, doesn't it?
There's always going to be scoffers, its not just about my righteousness, this was commissioned to everyone. Mat5:19-20 The Pharisees laid aside the commandments of God and instead followed their made up commandments of men/traditions- Jesus condemned this practice- said their heart was far from Him, the practice of traditions over the commandments of God as He quoted from the Ten Commandments He considers their worship to Him in vain, makes the word of God of no effect- He said it was a practice that leads both the teachers and followers into a ditch, so off the narrow path. Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13 It a serious teaching in my mind, but God gives us free will to learn and correct or continue on.
 
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The blessings is not the commandments of God. Jesus quoted the commandments He was referring to and least in heaven means one is not there according to the next verse. Mat5:19-30
OK, so you believe the murderers, adulterers, thieves, liars will be called least IN the kingdom of Heaven?
 
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OK, so you believe the murderers, adulterers, thieves, liars will be called least IN the kingdom of Heaven?
According to Scripture they won't be there- see the next verse Mat5:20 unless they repent now and turn from sin. 1John3:4 James2:11 Pro28:13 Heb10:36-30
 
According to Scripture they won't be there- see the next verse Mat5:20 unless they repent now and turn from sin. 1John3:4 James2:11 Pro28:13 Heb10:36-30
Jesus words are very plainly written:

Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least IN(IN) the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

That's what the verse plainly states. I suppose you can try and twist it to say something other than it plainly states if you feel the need.

It should be quite obvious anyway. I've never met any christian who fully obeys each and every command of Christ in the gospels, but I would not personally believe anyone who sets aside not murdering, stealing, committing adultery, lying, taking the Lord's name in vain would enter the kingdom of Heaven.
So, the more you follow what Christ preached in the gospels, the greater you will be in the kingdom of Heaven
 
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Jesus words are very plainly written:

Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least IN(IN) the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

That's what the verse plainly states. I suppose you can try and twist it to say something other than it plainly states if you feel the need.

It should be quite obvious anyway. I've never met any christian who fully obeys each and every command of Christ in the gospels, but I would not personally believe anyone who sets aside not murdering, stealing, committing adultery, lying, taking the Lord's name in vain would enter the kingdom of Heaven.
So, the more you follow what Christ preached in the gospels, the greater you will be in the kingdom of Heaven
The will be called least, (by those who are) in heaven, because they won't be there Mat5:20 Mat7:23 Rev 22:15 1Cor6:9

The Bible plainly states those who continue in sin will not enter into His Kingdom. Heb10:26-30
 
Well you can twist Jesus plain words if you wish, a pity though

Your quote plainly states what I just said

others accordingly will be called least IN(IN) the kingdom

It doesn;t say that sinners will inherit the Kingdom no Scriptures say this, it says the opposite already provided. If you wish to test this that its okay to break and teach others to break the least of these commandments and in doing so that shows faith leads to enteral life, it sounds like the same deceit we were told in the garden that we can disobey God and its no big deal, we will have life when God said that's the path to death Rom6:23Mat 7:23 Luke 6:46-49 Rev22:15
 
Your quote plainly states what I just said

others accordingly will be called least IN(IN) the kingdom

It doesn;t say that sinners inherit the Kingdom no Scriptures say this, it says the opposite already provided. If you wish to test this that its okay to break and teach others to break the least of these commandments and in doing so that shows faith leads to enteral life, it sounds like the same deceit we were told in the garden that we can disobey God and its no big deal.
I will leave you to your befuddlement
 
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I will leave you to your befuddlement
Better than the path that leads to doing the opposite of what Jesus said and thinks that's how we show love and faith to Him, doing what He asked us not to and think its going to have the same result as those who remain faithful to Him John15:4-10 Rev14:12 Rev 22:14 when He plainly told us it won't. Guess we shall see soon enough.
 
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Likewise what good is not coveting if we are going to profane God's Sabbath. In fact God related breaking the Sabbath with idol worship Eze20:16 which is coveting Col3:5 they are all interconnected, why breaking one we break them all.

If not keeping Shabbat is morally /spiritually equivalent to IDOLATRY why did neither Jesus nor his Apostles ever command Christians explicitly to keep Shabbat, or rebuke them for not keeping it? As I read the NT, I find NO mention of keeping Shabbat at all.

They all came in a unit of Ten Deut4:13 Exo34:28, not nine, all Ten under God's mercy seat because it what's atones for sin.

The “mercy seat” (which was the lid of the Ark of the Covenant) was not what “atoned” for sin. neither did the Ten Commandments which were INSIDE the Ark. Rather, what atoned for sin was the blood of the sacrifice SPRINKLED ON TOP of the mercy seat. This was how God ritually “covered” or “set aside” sin before Messiah came. It was only a temporary measure until the true Lamb of God came in human form and died on the cross. Now HE has become our ONLY SOURCE of forgiveness, cleansing and redemption. Under the New Covenant our sins are forgiven and cleansed WHENEVER WE CONFESS OUR SINS to Him:

7But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us (continually) from all sin. 8If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:6-9)

Sin is breaking the law of God 1John3:4 breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12 why Jesus taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments as one would be in fear of sin and judgement Mat5:19-30

You profess to believe that breaking Shabbat is morally equivalent to murder, idolatry and fornication That is serious. Moses made breaking Shabbat a capital offence in ancient Israel However, our Rabbi, who is Jesus Himself classified some sins as being worse than others. For example, He said:

23Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You pay tithes of mint, dill, and cumin. But you have disregarded the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.…(Matthew 23:23-24)

James 2:10 does indeed say: Whoever keeps the whole law but stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. However, James was talking about the futility of man attempting to completely obey the Old Covenant with its uncompromising demand for absolute obedience. The failure of that covenant, as you point out, was not due to any defect in the Law itself but rather, to the corruption of the human heart. Be that as it may, the Apostle Peter called the Law: …a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear?
(Acts 15:10)
 
For the visions I rarely see beyond 15 years i had these visions about 7 years ago. as for the tribulation I did research this last year based on scripture, i wrote an article on lt, but had to remove pauline scripture for this simple canalysis it clashed with the rest of scripture that is consistant regarting the end times. By added Pauline scripture I could not come to a consensus with the rest of biblical scripture. Unless you see a way to reconcile? if you do i would appreciate if you let me know.

The ribulation: Part I: Refinement, Not Removal

Abstract
This study explores the theological purpose of tribulation as presented in the the Bible—specifically, the prophetic writings, the teachings of Jesus, and the Book of Revelation. Excluding the Pauline doctrine of rapture and related eschatological constructs, the central argument advanced here is that tribulation serves not as divine abandonment or escape, but as a refining process through which faith, character, and covenant fidelity are purified and revealed. Across Scripture, tribulation emerges as an instrument of transformation rather than removal.

1. Introduction
The concept of the “Great Tribulation” has long been a subject of eschatological debate. Many interpretations emphasize deliverance from suffering, particularly through the notion of a pre-tribulational rapture. Yet, when the Pauline epistles are set aside, a different pattern and consistent story emerges across the Hebrew prophets, the teachings of Jesus, and the Revelation of John.

In these sources, tribulation is consistently depicted as a necessary refinement of the faithful rather than their escape from adversity. The people of God are not portrayed as removed from trial, but as purified through it. This understanding aligns with a broader biblical theology in which suffering functions as a divine crucible for authenticity and faithfulness.

2. Refinement in the Prophetic Tradition
2.1 Zechariah: The Remnant Through Fire

Zechariah 13:9 declares, “I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and test them as gold is tested.”
Here, tribulation is represented not as punitive destruction but as a process of purification. The “third part,” symbolizing the faithful remnant, endures divine testing that burns away impurity while preserving the essence of covenant loyalty.

In Hebrew prophetic thought, fire is primarily transformative rather than annihilative. It is the means by which God restores holiness among His people.

2.2 Daniel: Purification Before Deliverance
In Daniel 12:1–10, a “time of trouble” precedes final deliverance. The righteous are described as those who are “purified, made white, and refined.” This imagery depicts tribulation as an eschatological furnace in which moral integrity and faith are distinguished from rebellion and corruption.

The sequence is instructive: refinement precedes deliverance, implying that salvation itself arises from faithfulness under pressure, not immunity from it.

3. Jesus’ Teaching: Endurance as Faithfulness
In the Synoptic Gospels, particularly the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24), Jesus speaks plainly about suffering and persecution that will befall His followers. He does not promise their removal from tribulation but insists upon their endurance within it:


“Then they will hand you over to be persecuted… but the one who endures to the end will be saved” (Matthew 24:9–13).

Endurance (hypomonē) signifies steadfast perseverance. Salvation, therefore, is not the avoidance of tribulation but the demonstration of fidelity in its midst.

Similarly, in John 16:33, Jesus assures His disciples, “In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.” His victory does not eliminate the experience of suffering but grants meaning and hope within it.

The agricultural metaphor of pruning in John 15:2 reinforces this truth: even fruitful branches are cut back so that they might yield more. Divine pruning parallels the refining fire—both serve to deepen fruitfulness and spiritual maturity.

4. Revelation: Purity Through Perseverance
The Book of Revelation continues and completes this pattern. Believers are not depicted as absent during the world’s trials but as sealed and sustained through them. The vision of the multitude in Revelation 7:14 identifies them as those who “have come out of the great tribulation,” having “washed their robes… in the blood of the Lamb.”

Their purity is the result of endurance and faith under suffering. The saints are refined by faithfulness amid persecution, not by exemption from it. Likewise, in Revelation 3:18, Christ counsels the church to acquire “gold refined by fire,” emphasizing the necessity of purification before participation in divine glory.

Thus, Revelation’s theology of tribulation mirrors the prophets and Jesus: God’s people are preserved through testing and perfected by it.

5. The Biblical Pattern of Refinement
Throughout Scripture, the motif of refinement follows a consistent logic:


Biblical Example Nature of Trial Divine Purpose Noah’s FloodGlobal judgmentRenewal through a purified remnantIsrael’s WildernessHardship and testingFormation of covenant identityBabylonian ExileNational sufferingRestoration of faith and repentanceEnd-Time TribulationGlobal crisisRevelation and perfection of true faith
Across these episodes, the faithful are preserved within crisis, not spared from it. God’s justice and mercy operate simultaneously: judgment exposes evil, while suffering refines love and loyalty.

6. Theological Implications
From this perspective, three implications arise:

  1. Tribulation Reveals Authentic Faith
    Adversity exposes the heart’s allegiance. Those truly devoted to God are revealed under pressure, while superficial faith falls away.
  2. Tribulation Purifies the People of God
    Like silver in a furnace, believers are spiritually cleansed through hardship. Suffering becomes a medium of sanctification.
  3. Tribulation Prepares for Renewal
    The end-time distress serves as birth pains for the new creation. Just as creation groans before redemption, so humanity is refined before restoration.
Thus, tribulation functions not as divine punishment upon the faithful but as divine preparation for the fullness of God’s kingdom.

7. Conclusion
In the witness of the prophets, the Gospels, and Revelation, tribulation is never portrayed as a means of removing God’s people from the world. Instead, it is the means by which they are transformed within it.

The fire of tribulation purifies; it distinguishes the genuine from the false, the steadfast from the superficial. The refining process culminates not in despair but in redemption — the emergence of a people made radiant through endurance.

Hence, the theology of tribulation, reveals this central biblical truth:
God’s purpose in tribulation is not escape, but refinement; not destruction, but purification; not abandonment, but preparation for glory.

many will disagree and if you do no problem let me know, I value your opinion.


This is a great paper on the reason why we will go through the great tribulation! I have no problem with it.


Why do you not like Paul's writings? It doesn't conflict with Jesus.

Galatians 1:11–12 “I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man’s gospel. For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 2:16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."

1 Corinthians 7:40 In my judgment, she is happier if she stays as she is—and I think that I too have the Spirit of God.

1 Thessalonians 1:6 "And you became imitators of us and of the Lord, for you received the word in much affliction, with joy from the Holy Spirit."

2 Timothy 3:16 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness."

Acts 13:9 "Then Saul, who was also called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked directly at Elymas."


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Likewise what good is not coveting if we are going to profane God's Sabbath. In fact God related breaking the Sabbath with idol worship Eze20:16 which is coveting Col3:5 they are all interconnected, why breaking one we break them all.

If not keeping Shabbat is morally /spiritually equivalent to IDOLATRY why did neither Jesus nor his Apostles ever command Christians explicitly to keep Shabbat, or rebuke them for not keeping it? As I read the NT, I find NO mention of keeping Shabbat at all.

Because they were already keeping the Sabbath because its a commandment of God. The first thing we see after the death of Jesus after He ratified His covenant at His Cross was His faithful keeping the Sabbath according to the commandment. Commandments do not disappear- only God can remove them but He promised He would not. Psa89:34 Deut4:13 Mat5:18-19

Luke 23: 56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

Which they were keeping for generations and generations that didn't end after the Cross kept decades later. It wasn't God who changed His Sabbath, but He warned us the beast system who would do so Dan7:25 that sadly most follow and obey over what God commanded.

Acts 15:21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

Acts 13:42 [a]So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.

Acts 13:44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.

Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

They all came in a unit of Ten Deut4:13 Exo34:28, not nine, all Ten under God's mercy seat because it what's atones for sin.

The “mercy seat” (which was the lid of the Ark of the Covenant) was not what “atoned” for sin. neither did the Ten Commandments which were INSIDE the Ark. Rather, what atoned for sin was the blood of the sacrifice SPRINKLED ON TOP of the mercy seat. This was how God ritually “covered” or “set aside” sin before Messiah came. It was only a temporary measure until the true Lamb of God came in human form and died on the cross. Now HE has become our ONLY SOURCE of forgiveness, cleansing and redemption. Under the New Covenant our sins are forgiven and cleansed WHENEVER WE CONFESS OUR SINS to Him:

The Ten Commandments was what was under God's mercy seat because its what is sin when we break, not written by Moses, not the law of Moses, but the Law of God Exo20:6 written by God under His mercy seat.

Exo 25:21 You shall put the mercy seat on top of the ark, and in the ark you shall put the Testimony that I will give you.

The Testimony is the Ten Commandment

Exo31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

Deut 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

The blood covered what was under the mercy seat which is the law of God, the Ten Commandment, this was always a placeholder to Christ because the blood of animal cant take away sin Heb10:1-15 which is why Jesus is our Hight Priest now in His heavenly Temple

The earthy temple was a copy what is in God's heavenly Temple


Hebrews 8:1–2 Christ is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, a minister of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, not man.
Hebrews 9:23–24 The earthly tabernacle was a copy of the heavenly things, but Christ entered heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us.

Final atonement has not happened. All Ten Commandments came with capital punishment in the OT because its sin when we break and it has the same punishment in the NT Rom6:23 1John3:4 James 2:11-12 Rev 11:18-19 unless we confess our sins and turn from sin, meaning changing our mind and abiding in Him.

God tells us who He shows mercy to right in the Ten Commandments

Exo 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

God never made a mistake with one of His commandments, the one He said to Remember that comes with the power of His blessings Exo20:11 Isa 56:2 and sanctification Gen2:3 Eze20:12 because man can't bless or sanctify a day, nor can man bless or sanctify themselves Isa 66:17 we all need God Eze20:20



You profess to believe that breaking Shabbat is morally equivalent to murder, idolatry and fornication That is serious. Moses made breaking Shabbat a capital offence in ancient Israel However, our Rabbi, who is Jesus Himself classified some sins as being worse than others. For example, He said:

23Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You pay tithes of mint, dill, and cumin. But you have disregarded the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.…(Matthew 23:23-24)

What are the weightier matters? Law, justice, faithfulness - not an example of Jesus teaching one to be commandment breaker.

Did you know God who is Jesus made flesh, said keeping the Sabbath is doing righteousness and justice Isa 56:1-2 which is the foundation of His Throne Psa 89:14


This....

10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

Does not say this, but the opposite. The Ten Commandments was never a yoke of bondage, sin is the bondage breaking the law of God, Jesus wants to set us free from, not keep us in bondage to the devil 1John3:8

However, James was talking about the futility of man attempting to completely obey the Old Covenant with its uncompromising demand for absolute obedience. The failure of that covenant, as you point out, was not due to any defect in the Law itself but rather, to the corruption of the human heart. Be that as it may, the Apostle Peter called the Law: …a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear?
(Acts 15:10)
 
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