Loss of salvation???

[James456]

In my view, the opinions of people who believe the Spirit can reside in the unsaved are not credible

 

[Wansvic]

There are people in this debate who concentrate on, and emphasise the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues, yet they do not recognise one of the most fundamental facts of new covenant christianity. The Holy Spirit does NOT reside in the unsaved. They prefer to consider water baptism as of more important critical evidence than the Holy Spirit actually residing in someone, and they keep quoting Acts 2:38 to try and prove it, inspite of the fact that verse was not rigidly followed in Acts ch10. I won't say they are speaking blasphemy against the Holy Spirit by saying the Spirit can reside in the unsaved, but in my view, it would not be far off that. And we know what Jesus said concerning those who commit such blasphemy.
It is concerning in my view, that those who so stress the importance of the Holy Spirit do not appear to understand a fundamental truth concerning Him
Then we are told the bible is a rulebook that must be followed to avoid sin. That would mean each and every NT command must be rigidly followed, something that is NOT done by those who insist on their rulebook:

“The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. Matt23:2&3
Woe betitde the trusting individuals who believe them. They will end up crushed, broken, downtrodden and oppressed. And the people who are responsible for making them that way, will walk on by without a care in the world

Consider the conversion accounts indicate both receiving the Holy Ghost and being water baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sin were involved. It is not the sequence in which the experiences occur that matters. What does matter is that God's message is believed and acted upon. (Acts 2: 4, 36-42, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16)

 

[James456]

Father and Son dwell in believers through the Spirit. So,. people obviously believe Father and son dwell in the unsaved.

 

[James456]

Consider the conversion accounts indicate both receiving the Holy Ghost and being water baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sin were involved. It is not the sequence in which the experiences occur that matters. What does matter is that God's message is believed and acted upon. (Acts 2: 4, 36-42, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16)

As you are afraid to answer a simple question yes or no, I take no notice of your opinions

 

[Wansvic]

OK, so you are reluctant to plainly answer the question asked, as all can see. So I know what you believe, but you are obviously afraid to come out and plainly state it

I am not afraid of anything. I want you to see for yourself what is true from the Word of God. As Paul said, there are those who plant, and those who water, but ultimately God gives the increase; meaning God reveals the truth through His Word.

So I am sincere when I ask you to consider your motives. Are you more interested in trying to demean individuals rather than actually considering what you have been shown from the Word of God?

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

"Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase."

 

[Wansvic]

As you are afraid to answer a simple question yes or no, I take no notice of your opinions

What I provided is not opinion. I shared scripture that makes a point. What you do with it is entirely up to you. I hope you will take the time to study it out and pray about it.

 

[Musicmaster]

Consider the following that disputes the idea that the gospel message had changed.

First of all, my key point is questioning the practice of cherry-picking from his actions what allegedly applies to salvation for us today as the body of Christ, and coupling that with his explicit teachings and command elements for salvation.

When you say "changed," your meaning for that is an important feature to consider in the conversation.

Paul spent time in Arabia immediately after his conversion. And was still water baptizing individuals 20+ years after the initial command was presented at Pentecost.

Please consider what I actually said. I never stated that Paul did not baptize because he did do so, but never as a commandment as an element for salvation:

1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Contrasting that with John the Baptist who DID state water baptism as a key feature for his ministry, therefore who WAS sent to baptize with water, and we begin to see the disparity that exist in viewpoints whereby people fail to rightly divide the word of truth.

And it was during his stay with those he had water baptized in the name of Jesus, that he wrote letters to Galatians and Corinthians. That those letters were written at that time is relevant because you as well as others point to those letters in an attempt to discredit water baptism as essential for salvation.

Then you're left with the only avenue open to you, which is to accuse Paul of the sin of omission:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Please show to me even a hint at the idea of water baptism being an element for salvation to us. Please look into the full context of the above passages and show to us where Paul here, or anywhere else, COMMANDED water baptism for salvation. Absent any such command from Paul, you're then accusing Paul of the sin of omission in something VASTLY important to us all. Why would Paul leave that one thing out if it were indeed so important. Can you answer that?

Explicit and express commandment as opposed to a practice that is nowhere stated by Paul as being an element for salvation, pointing only at actions as opposed to actual commandment in teaching, you only create more problems for yourself. Paul also raised a lad from the dead. Do you also try to do that? Why not? Let's look at what is actually stated without rightly dividing the word of truth and see the real issues one creates by not rightly dividing:

Mark 16:16-18
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Please don't tell me that you don't do these things if in fact these truths are not to be rightly divided from us today. Not only are these things promised to those who believe and are baptized, it was all practiced back then. Command+practice=relevance for us today...right? If not in all places, then how do YOU divide it out from us today? The above verses say nothing to those things being limited to only a select few, but rather speaks of them being done by those who believe. Do you not believe?

There's a difference between some practices and those things explicitly commanded and stated as elements for salvation today versus back then before the fall of Israel. Do you see the problem here when one fails to rightly divide the word of truth? You practice at least SOME division by not offering animal sacrifices for your sins, right?

"Approximately 20 to 25 years elapsed between the events of Acts 2 (Pentecost, c. AD 30–33) and Paul’s arrival in Ephesus in Acts 19 (c. AD 53–54). Acts 2 occurred around AD 30-33, while Paul began his third missionary journey and arrived in Ephesus around AD 53-54, after his second journey concluded.

• Acts 2 (Pentecost): Generally dated to AD 30 or AD 33.
• Acts 19 (Ephesus Trip): Paul arrived in Ephesus at the start of his third journey, dated to c. AD 53-54.
• Time Span: The interval covers Paul's conversion, his time in Arabia/Damascus, his first, second, and third missionary journeys, and the Jerusalem Council. "

Ok. Yes. about 21 years, but what does that prove apart from water baptism being a strongly emotional tradition for public declaration in identifying with Christ Jesus. That's a good thing, but not commanded by Paul for salvation, so please explain your rationale more clearly so that we understand your reasoning through this.

How do actions in contrast to actual instruction for salvation intermix for it all to be on the same level of command and truth for all today? That's the disconnect in this discussion. If I'm not mistaken, you seem to be defending the idea that Paul's actions in water baptism, nowhere commanded by him under the Gospel of Grace, somehow translates into equality with explicit instruction, when you obviously don't also DO as Paul practiced in healing and raising the dead.

So, as a repeat: Granted, healing and raising the dead aren't elements for salvation, but my point is questioning the practice of cherry-picking from his actions what allegedly applies to salvation for us today as the body of Christ.

MM

 

[Wansvic]

First of all, my key point is questioning the practice of cherry-picking from his actions what allegedly applies to salvation for us today as the body of Christ, and coupling that with his explicit teachings and command elements for salvation.

When you say "changed," your meaning for that is an important feature to consider in the conversation.



Please consider what I actually said. I never stated that Paul did not baptize because he did do so, but never as a commandment as an element for salvation:

1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Contrasting that with John the Baptist who DID state water baptism as a key feature for his ministry, therefore who WAS sent to baptize with water, and we begin to see the disparity that exist in viewpoints whereby people fail to rightly divide the word of truth.



Then you're left with the only avenue open to you, which is to accuse Paul of the sin of omission:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Please show to me even a hint at the idea of water baptism being an element for salvation to us. Please look into the full context of the above passages and show to us where Paul here, or anywhere else, COMMANDED water baptism for salvation. Absent any such command from Paul, you're then accusing Paul of the sin of omission in something VASTLY important to us all. Why would Paul leave that one thing out if it were indeed so important. Can you answer that?

Explicit and express commandment as opposed to a practice that is nowhere stated by Paul as being an element for salvation, pointing only at actions as opposed to actual commandment in teaching, you only create more problems for yourself. Paul also raised a lad from the dead. Do you also try to do that? Why not? Let's look at what is actually stated without rightly dividing the word of truth and see the real issues one creates by not rightly dividing:

Mark 16:16-18
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Please don't tell me that you don't do these things if in fact these truths are not to be rightly divided from us today. Not only are these things promised to those who believe and are baptized, it was all practiced back then. Command+practice=relevance for us today...right? If not in all places, then how do YOU divide it out from us today? The above verses say nothing to those things being limited to only a select few, but rather speaks of them being done by those who believe. Do you not believe?

There's a difference between some practices and those things explicitly commanded and stated as elements for salvation today versus back then before the fall of Israel. Do you see the problem here when one fails to rightly divide the word of truth? You practice at least SOME division by not offering animal sacrifices for your sins, right?

Ok. Yes. about 21 years, but what does that prove apart from water baptism being a strongly emotional tradition for public declaration in identifying with Christ Jesus. That's a good thing, but not commanded by Paul for salvation, so please explain your rationale more clearly so that we understand your reasoning through this.

How do actions in contrast to actual instruction for salvation intermix for it all to be on the same level of command and truth for all today? That's the disconnect in this discussion. If I'm not mistaken, you seem to be defending the idea that Paul's actions in water baptism, nowhere commanded by him under the Gospel of Grace, somehow translates into equality with explicit instruction, when you obviously don't also DO as Paul practiced in healing and raising the dead.

So, as a repeat: Granted, healing and raising the dead aren't elements for salvation, but my point is questioning the practice of cherry-picking from his actions what allegedly applies to salvation for us today as the body of Christ.

MM

Paul's comment about not being sent to baptize clearly pertained to his primary ministry being to preach while others, on most occasions, did the baptizing. This truth is witnessed within scripture. ie, Paul stated he baptized Crispus. And the actual account indicates there were others on that occasion who were baptized as well; indicating others administered their baptisms.

Your accusation that I am accusing Paul of the sin of omission is ridiculous. In the scripture you reference, Paul is addressing the faulty belief that there is no resurrection. Note, Paul says he declared the gospel which they received and resulted in their being saved. Verse 3 indicates there was more to the gospel message but his focus pertained to what he told them FIRST. Every conversion account begins with individuals being told about Jesus and His sacrifice. Without this core belief water baptism would result in nothing more than getting soaked.

Something you neglect to notice is water baptism is mentioned in the chapter. Paul asks the people why they are bothering to get baptized for their dead relatives if they don't believe in the resurrection. Although baptism for the dead is not biblical, the mention reveals water baptism was part of the gospel message Paul delivered.


1 Corinthians 15:1-4. 29
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 FOR I DELIVERED UNTO YOU FIRST OF ALL that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?


Mark 16:16-18 is just as relevant today as it was when penned:
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.


As far as raising someone from the dead, note that is not a requirement associated with the NT rebirth. (Acts 2:36-42, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16)

Paul did address, administer, and explain the purpose of water baptism on many occasions. The last detailed account that came from the mouth of Paul paralleled the first message along with the requirements presented by Peter at Pentecost. This is certainly not a coincidence. The first message including the need to be water baptized in the name of Jesus was carried forth from Jerusalem into all nations. And Paul's instruction to the 12 men of Ephesus continued, and continues even unto today, and will continue to do so until Jesus returns.

 

[James456]

I am not afraid of anything. I want you to see for yourself what is true from the Word of God. As Paul said, there are those who plant, and those who water, but ultimately God gives the increase; meaning God reveals the truth through His Word.

So I am sincere when I ask you to consider your motives. Are you more interested in trying to demean individuals rather than actually considering what you have been shown from the Word of God?

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

"Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase."

I do see for myself, and people who believe the Holy Spirit resides in the unsaved cannot plant nor cannot water, though they may mistakenly believe they can:
When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, Eph1:13


And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Eph4:30

I repeat, Father and Son dwell in believers through the Spirit, so, you believe Father and son dwell in the unsaved. This gets more ludicrous all the time

 

[James456]

What I provided is not opinion. I shared scripture that makes a point. What you do with it is entirely up to you. I hope you will take the time to study it out and pray about it.

Many will share scripture, including, jws, mormons, sda, even muslims, it doesn't make them right does it!
Neither are you right, though Im sure you believe you are

 

[Howdy]

GOD DOES NOT PLAY GAMES, HE loves us but gave us a whole book of insturctions to follow.

It may be different for different people as we are all diffferent.

I will bet 99% of people here will not agree with MY THOUGHTS on the subject, and I can't say when we will. I do know that we for sure can.

The closer I am getting to JESUS the more HE is putting this same subject in my mind as I wonder if I died right now would I go to Heaven.

As you can see the problem, I sure do not agree with the once saved always saved people, I bet that's 75%.

Since sin will not enter Heaen if we have sin on us we will be lost.

After we are reborn, believe, repent, baptized in JESUS name and JESUS fills us with HIS spirit. John 3:5, Acts 2:38.

I bet 90% of people on this sight will not even accept how to be reborn, if not reborn why even think on how to say reborn.

After we have been reborn, all we need to do is repent and confess those sins to JESUS and HE will forgive us.

Lets look at 1 John 1:8-10
King James Version
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.


We will always sin, it does not have to be an action just a thought.

A thought is what causes the action, so if something wrong pops in our mind we need to cast it out then and repent and confess that sin at that sceond.

Matthew 5:29-30
King James Version
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

What do you think JESUS is telling us here?

If I keep looking at things that I sould not it would be better to pluck out my eyes than go to Hell.

Not sure my HE is referintg to with my right hand, since most people are right handed or what but better to cut if off not to sin.

GOD IS NO JOKE, HE is Holy if we have the same Holy Ghost that JESUS gave HIS discples throught that Holy Ghost we have the abilty to fight off sin.

So you decide when we lose our salavation.

Are you saying that you do not know?
Are you sure you are going to Heaven?

 

[Howdy]

Good question. I've been asking that of the salvation loss gang for some years now and still have yet to get an answer from scripture that is even close to the point of rightly divided word of truth. There are LOTS of opinions out there, but none of them point to any relevant scripture having to do with the modern body of Christ without it becoming works-based salvation.

MM

And I have never met one who will say they have lost their salvation.
So I guess the point/sin where salvation is lost depends on who you are talking to.

 

[Musicmaster]

Paul's comment about not being sent to baptize clearly pertained to his primary ministry being to preach while others, on most occasions, did the baptizing. This truth is witnessed within scripture. ie, Paul stated he baptized Crispus. And the actual account indicates there were others on that occasion who were baptized as well; indicating others administered their baptisms.

If I may, do you see the identifiers of "primary" or "secondary" or anything else in any of that context that would set up some sort of priorities?

Also, you're still gravitating in the direction of the fallacy known as an argument from silence. I've asked and will ask again where Paul ever commanded water baptism as an element of salvation? Can you at least show that to us?

Your accusation that I am accusing Paul of the sin of omission is ridiculous.

By implication you're indeed accusing Paul of having omitted the element of water baptism for salvation.

For you to say that water baptism is an element required for salvation, coupled with Paul never having said anything of the kind anywhere throughout any of his epistles, you are in essence accusing him of having omitted what you are indirectly claiming to have been left out. What else could anyone call that? Either he omitted it or he didn't. It can't be both or anything in between, so please tell us all, what is it if not the sin of omission? Is there some gray area out there somewhere that the scriptures uphold as a defining practice for Paul having left that out in his express and explicit list of what's required for salvation?

In the scripture you reference, Paul is addressing the faulty belief that there is no resurrection. Note, Paul says he declared the gospel which they received and resulted in their being saved. Verse 3 indicates there was more to the gospel message but his focus pertained to what he told them FIRST. Every conversion account begins with individuals being told about Jesus and His sacrifice. Without this core belief water baptism would result in nothing more than getting soaked.

Actually, no. Incorrect, my friend:

1 Corinthians 15:2-4
2 By which also ye are saved [Why do you continue to ignore this?], if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

The language leaves no room for anything else as pertains to salvation. He delivered FIRST of all faith in the death of Christ AND the burial AND the resurrection on the third day, and that which was delivered FIRST of all to them that BY WHICH WE ARE SAVED. Anything else after that, then, are not elements of salvation, although can be beneficial to the expressions of one's faith and one's affiliations.

Something you neglect to notice is water baptism is mentioned in the chapter. Paul asks the people why they are bothering to get baptized for their dead relatives if they don't believe in the resurrection. Although baptism for the dead is not biblical, the mention reveals water baptism was part of the gospel message Paul delivered.

I neglected nothing. You will search in vain throughout ALL of his epistles where he ever declared water baptism an element of salvation. Instead, you continue to inject into the texts that which is nowhere stated by Paul. I've asked numerous times for you to show to me an explicit declaration from Paul that water baptism was ever a requirement for salvation, and all I'm seeing so far is you injecting what isn't there. Please explain that.

Bottom line, if you think you can add to the already sufficient salvation there is in the shed Blood of Christ Jesus through your efforts for water baptism and any other work of effort on your part, then go for it. You can believe in your salvation on whatever basis you so choose. It's no skin off my back. We all are responsible for what we choose to believe, but dare we preach another gospel other than that which was delivered to us by Paul, such a one is accursed.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

And I have never met one who will say they have lost their salvation.
So I guess the point/sin where salvation is lost depends on who you are talking to.

Oh, yeah. I've met some who actually testify that they had lost their salvation in the past. When I asked how they knew without a doubt they had lost it, the response was always on the basis of emotions...how they felt about themselves and what they thought was their distancing from the Lord as a result of "backsliding." They had no theological foundations for such a claim, only that they knew they had to retain their salvation through allegedly having turned from sin...which nobody does, but some like to think they've accomplished that feat.

MM

 

[Ouch]

Your pet verse (Acts 2:38) must be read alongside other verses like (Luke 24:47; Acts 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) where forgiveness is explicitly tied to repentance/belief/faith and not baptism. You must look beyond your pet verses and consider the totality of scripture.

Luke 24:47 - and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 5:31 - Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 10:43 - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?” 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life.” *What happened to baptism?

Acts 13:38 - Therefore, let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins; 39 and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 15:7 - And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 16:30 - And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” *What happened to baptism?

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

*So, the only logical and Biblical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in repentance" (rather than water baptism) gets rid of our sins. (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*

JESUS said we have to be born of water and of spirit.

You say it's my pet verse which says very cleayly how we get rid of our sins.

I all 4 cases of people being reborn, Jew first, Acts 2, Smeritans in Acts 8, Gentiles in Acts 10 and the Ephens in Acts 19 used that verse as their foudation.

Can you show anywhere else anyone was born of water and of spirit the verse you shared???

No you can't, SO how do you put those along side?

Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

THIS IS THAT MESSAGE!!

Acts 2:38-39
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

You don't believe we need to be baptized in JESUS name to remove and our sins, then you talk about Logic?

Can you show me ANY of your verse where it tells us how to get rid of our sins or people getting the Holy Ghost? someone was saved with faith alone?

 

[Ouch]

Are you saying that you do not know?
Are you sure you are going to Heaven?

Dat by day, if you read my post you would understand what I am saying.
We have to die daily, not weekly or every month.
Sin will NOT enter Heaven.

 

[Wansvic]

I do see for myself, and people who believe the Holy Spirit resides in the unsaved cannot plant nor cannot water, though they may mistakenly believe they can:
When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, Eph1:13


And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Eph4:30

I repeat, Father and Son dwell in believers through the Spirit, so, you believe Father and son dwell in the unsaved. This gets more ludicrous all the time

The key to Ephesians 1:13 is what word of truth, the gospel of your salvation is being referenced. And that is what was first presented at Pentecost.

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise," Ephesians 1:13

 

[Wansvic]

Many will share scripture, including, jws, mormons, sda, even muslims, it doesn't make them right does it!
Neither are you right, though Im sure you believe you are

You may want to take a look at the actual scripture.

 

[James456]

Oneness pentecostals are very close to catholicism where justification/baptism is concerned.
Justification/being in a saved state hinges on baptism in water, and where sin and righteousness are concerned they are pretty much united. Mainstream pentecostalism isnt that far behind.
As one person said:
''Pentecostals and catholics are considered the furthest apart doctrinally amongst mainstream denominations, but they are the denominations that find it hardest to accept biblical grace''

 

[James456]

The key to Ephesians 1:13 is what word of truth, the gospel of your salvation is being referenced. And that is what was first presented at Pentecost.

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise," Ephesians 1:13

As you in reality believe Father and son dwell in the unsaved, Im afraid your understanding of the bible leaves a lot to be desired