There's something you can do, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ who atoned for your sins. The Father doesn't accept your work.
I already did. Try reading it.
Loss of salvation???
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There's something you can do, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ who atoned for your sins. The Father doesn't accept your work.
I already did. Try reading it.
J
James456
Guest
We could ask, if those who say the rulebook must be followed and sin avoided according to it, really mean what they say or not:There's something you can do, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ who atoned for your sins. The Father doesn't accept your work.
I already did. Try reading it.
Here’s a sample list of what it would take to obey the TC, Christ’s teaching and the second greatest commandment and avoid sin.
Let’s start with the Ten Commandments:
Do you ever put anything before God in your life?
Do you ever build any graven images in your mind?
Do you always honour your parents without exception.
Have you ever looked at a woman with lust in your eye? (Jesus ratified the commandment)
Have you ever fibbed about anyone, or been untruthful about a person in anyway?
Have you dwelt on any impure thought?
Do you ever desire ANYTHING of your neighbours, whether material goods or a member of their household?
Do you fully obey the law relating to the inner man, the law only you and God need know you break?
Jesus commands:
If someone asked to lend from you would you gladly lend to them without ever expecting anything back?
If someone stole from you, would you offer them more than what they stole with nothing but love in your heart for them?
Do you not invite friends or family home for a meal, but rather the poor, blind, lame and beggars?
If you have ever fasted, have you even hinted to anyone you are fasting?
Do you truly in your heart love your enemies, those who may malign, harass or persecute you?
Do you leap for joy if you are persecuted?
Second greatest commandment
Do you always truly love all those you come into contact with in thought, word or deed, constantly, including your enemies, those who may be unkind to you, persecute or harass you?
All examples of what it takes to obey the TC, Christ’s teaching and the second greatest commandment.
There's something you can do, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ who atoned for your sins. The Father doesn't accept your work.
I already did. Try reading it.
Do you remember not long ago I shared with you how much of a lie that was?
You didn't respond so I was hoping you would not keep the lie going.
Rememer the verse I shared where liars go?
Didn't work, BUT THERS HOPE, you can repent!!!
The ones who was responsibe for putting JESUS on the cross, THEY HEARD were they were WRONG and asked what to do.
Peter told them THEY OBEYED.
Acts 2:37-41
King James Version
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
WHAT DO WE DO??? THEY ASKED???
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
THEY REPENTED AND THREE THOUSAND SOULS WERE ADDED!!!
It's not to late!!
Perhaps you have heard of the Holy Spirit. Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God. Paul was led by the Spirit in his travels. I don't find anywhere in the Torah that Paul should preach the gospel in Macedonia. Jesus does not lead us by a rule book. Neither will He judge us by our compliance to rules.
You are on this site to try and bring believers into the same bondage that you yourself are in. Some of us prefer the glorious liberty of the sons of God. You should try it sometime. You might like it.
Your pet verse (Acts 2:38) must be read alongside other verses like (Luke 24:47; Acts 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) where forgiveness is explicitly tied to repentance/belief/faith and not baptism. You must look beyond your pet verses and consider the totality of scripture.
Luke 24:47 - and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 5:31 - Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 10:43 - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?” 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life.” *What happened to baptism?
Acts 13:38 - Therefore, let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins; 39 and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 15:7 - And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 16:30 - And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” *What happened to baptism?
Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.
*So, the only logical and Biblical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in repentance" (rather than water baptism) gets rid of our sins. (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*
The Word of God reveals that sins are remitted upon obedience to God's command of water baptism in the name of Jesus. You tell me.
"For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Acts 22:15-16
Ananias' instruction to Paul reveals what is true. He told Paul that he would be a witness unto all of what is necessary:
"For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Acts 22:16
Baptism, being one of those topics amongst the greatest doctrines of antiquities among debate items, does provide some interesting contrast as to the reason why we MUST rightly divide the word of truth:
1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
If what Peter stated were still true for us today, then those who yammer about water baptism saving anyone would indeed be speaking the truth as relating to us today. However, Peter, who did preach to a small hand full of Gentiles as an apostle to Israel and the proselyte Gentiles who had converted to Judaism through him and others of the apostles, and who admitted his lack of fully understanding Paul's gospel and teachings as stated in 2 Peter, diminished in his leadership role as can be seen in Acts.
I will admit that the legalistic gang would be correct to say that water baptism saves if Peter had indeed been the apostle to the Gentiles who remained Gentiles rather than having become Jews, but he wasn't. Gentile proselytes who were under the ministry of the twelve became Jews just as was the case before the cross. The confusions some have is in their failure to recognize that the effects from the fall of Israel were not immediate. The transition was a process rather than an event.
Paul, however, not once stated water baptism as the means unto the remission of sins nor unto salvation as did Peter in Acts 2 and in 1 Peter 3 above. What's so striking in this manic pursuit of water baptism allegedly still being a means unto salvation, that belief is an indictment against Paul for the egregious sin of omission had that been true. That truth is indisputable, and yet those legalists never tear out Paul's epistles from their Bibles. The vast majority of them have Bibles with Paul's epistles still intact while reading it all as if it had harmonious continuity at the level that they claim to be in existence throughout. There seems to be some sort of aneurism in the part of the brain that recognizes distinctions, because pointing out those items hits some sort of inexplicable barrier of recognition.
Granted, that barrier is actually willful at its root, but when it becomes so manic that words printed on pages don't get through, that barrier has grown deep roots of corruption into the very soul of the individual. Rather than be contentious because of a desire to get such to see the clear language, we have to walk away from them, knocking the dust off our feet at their door step and moving on to those who have warm blood coursing through their veins in contrast to the ice of frigidity and indifference.
MM
1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
If what Peter stated were still true for us today, then those who yammer about water baptism saving anyone would indeed be speaking the truth as relating to us today. However, Peter, who did preach to a small hand full of Gentiles as an apostle to Israel and the proselyte Gentiles who had converted to Judaism through him and others of the apostles, and who admitted his lack of fully understanding Paul's gospel and teachings as stated in 2 Peter, diminished in his leadership role as can be seen in Acts.
I will admit that the legalistic gang would be correct to say that water baptism saves if Peter had indeed been the apostle to the Gentiles who remained Gentiles rather than having become Jews, but he wasn't. Gentile proselytes who were under the ministry of the twelve became Jews just as was the case before the cross. The confusions some have is in their failure to recognize that the effects from the fall of Israel were not immediate. The transition was a process rather than an event.
Paul, however, not once stated water baptism as the means unto the remission of sins nor unto salvation as did Peter in Acts 2 and in 1 Peter 3 above. What's so striking in this manic pursuit of water baptism allegedly still being a means unto salvation, that belief is an indictment against Paul for the egregious sin of omission had that been true. That truth is indisputable, and yet those legalists never tear out Paul's epistles from their Bibles. The vast majority of them have Bibles with Paul's epistles still intact while reading it all as if it had harmonious continuity at the level that they claim to be in existence throughout. There seems to be some sort of aneurism in the part of the brain that recognizes distinctions, because pointing out those items hits some sort of inexplicable barrier of recognition.
Granted, that barrier is actually willful at its root, but when it becomes so manic that words printed on pages don't get through, that barrier has grown deep roots of corruption into the very soul of the individual. Rather than be contentious because of a desire to get such to see the clear language, we have to walk away from them, knocking the dust off our feet at their door step and moving on to those who have warm blood coursing through their veins in contrast to the ice of frigidity and indifference.
MM
No! Wrong [your analysis, that is]!
Ananias was operating under the Kingdom Gospel given that the Gospel of Grace had not yet been revealed to Paul until he traveled and spent some years in Arabia with Christ Jesus to be trained up in the Gospel of Grace yet to be preached to the world at that time.
This is another demonstration for the confusions arising from a failure to rightly divide the word of truth.
Don't worry. I was once where you are, but have since rightly divided the word of truth in order to disway the doctrinal confusions and seeming contradictions that otherwise have no explanation. I showed in post 6591 above the absolute necessity for rightly dividing the word of truth given that Peter stated water baptism to be a matter of salvation, which was true for Israel at that time.
MM
Acts 10:47-48 makes it clear that being baptized in the name of the Lord/Jesus is water baptism. Note as well that Acts 10:43 makes a reference to water baptism. "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name (Jesus) whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
"Can any man forbid WATER, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized (How?) in the name of the Lord." Acts 10:47-48
After the cross the bible makes specific reference to others who water baptized individuals; Philip the Evangelist, Ananias, Apollos, and the Apostle Paul. Are you suggesting that they too were just clinging to old ways?
Consider the prophesy Jesus spoke prior to ascending into Heaven. Jesus revealed repentance and remission of sins would be preached in His name. It was at Pentecost that the command to Repent, and be Baptized IN THE NAME OF JESUS FOR REMISSION OF SINS was first preached. We know the baptism command was in fact water baptism because Peter was instructing those who asked what THEY MUST DO. (Acts 2:36-39) It was at that point that water baptism began to be administered in the name of Jesus as it directly relates to His sacrifice. When John the Baptist introduced water baptism no one even knew the name of the Messiah or what the future held for Jesus.
"And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
And ye are witnesses of these things." Luke 24:46-48
J
James456
Guest
Could you answer the question please with simply a yes or no answer:
When Cornelius and his household received the Holy Spirit as the disciples did at Pentecost and spoke in tongues, were they in saved states at that time?
Consider the following that disputes the idea that the gospel message had changed.
Paul spent time in Arabia immediately after his conversion. And was still water baptizing individuals 20+ years after the initial command was presented at Pentecost. And it was during his stay with those he had water baptized in the name of Jesus, that he wrote letters to Galatians and Corinthians. That those letters were written at that time is relevant because you as well as others point to those letters in an attempt to discredit water baptism as essential for salvation.
"Approximately 20 to 25 years elapsed between the events of Acts 2 (Pentecost, c. AD 30–33) and Paul’s arrival in Ephesus in Acts 19 (c. AD 53–54). Acts 2 occurred around AD 30-33, while Paul began his third missionary journey and arrived in Ephesus around AD 53-54, after his second journey concluded.
- Acts 2 (Pentecost): Generally dated to AD 30 or AD 33.
- Acts 19 (Ephesus Trip): Paul arrived in Ephesus at the start of his third journey, dated to c. AD 53-54.
- Time Span: The interval covers Paul's conversion, his time in Arabia/Damascus, his first, second, and third missionary journeys, and the Jerusalem Council. "
J
James456
Guest
There are people in this debate who concentrate on, and emphasise the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues, yet they do not recognise one of the most fundamental facts of new covenant christianity. The Holy Spirit does NOT reside in the unsaved. They prefer to consider water baptism as of more important critical evidence than the Holy Spirit actually residing in someone, and they keep quoting Acts 2:38 to try and prove it, inspite of the fact that verse was not rigidly followed in Acts ch10. I won't say they are speaking blasphemy against the Holy Spirit by saying the Spirit can reside in the unsaved, but in my view, it would not be far off that. And we know what Jesus said concerning those who commit such blasphemy.
It is concerning in my view, that those who so stress the importance of the Holy Spirit do not appear to understand a fundamental truth concerning Him
Then we are told the bible is a rulebook that must be followed to avoid sin. That would mean each and every NT command must be rigidly followed, something that is NOT done by those who insist on their rulebook:
“The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. Matt23:2&3
Woe betitde the trusting individuals who believe them. They will end up crushed, broken, downtrodden and oppressed. And the people who are responsible for making them that way, will walk on by without a care in the world
It is concerning in my view, that those who so stress the importance of the Holy Spirit do not appear to understand a fundamental truth concerning Him
Then we are told the bible is a rulebook that must be followed to avoid sin. That would mean each and every NT command must be rigidly followed, something that is NOT done by those who insist on their rulebook:
“The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. Matt23:2&3
Woe betitde the trusting individuals who believe them. They will end up crushed, broken, downtrodden and oppressed. And the people who are responsible for making them that way, will walk on by without a care in the world
God's word says sins are remitted upon obedience to water baptism in the name of Jesus.
Have you even considered what Paul meant in 1 Thessalonians 5:23?
"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Think about it, we are beings that consist of three parts. And according to Paul we can be held to blame in any one of those parts.
J
James456
Guest
OK, so you are reluctant to plainly answer the question asked, as all can see. So I know what you believe, but you are obviously afraid to come out and plainly state it