Yet we will be judged. 2 Corinthians 5:10. Matt 25: 31-46 .James is clear faith without works is dead. The sin of presumption is everywhere
Faith or Law?
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Yet we will be judged. 2 Corinthians 5:10. Matt 25: 31-46 .James is clear faith without works is dead. The sin of presumption is everywhere
J
James456
Guest
Ridiculous
God himself states what the new covenant is, it is what I keep quoting you, he didn't say it was Deut30:6, but Jeremiah 31:31-34&Heb10:15-18
If you won't accept what God Himself states, that is not good.
I cant bring myself to respond to your last sentance
J
James456
Guest
I would say 2Cor5:10 refers to rewards or the lack of them:
If you give a cup of cold water......
Jesus commands can be summed up as showing love to others?(Gal6:2) so that covers your Matthew quote. And absolutely, true faith will always bring results. Just look to Jesus and rely on the Spirit for sanctification, and the fruits of the Spirit will cover Jesus teaching
So now I will quote scripture:
Sin is the transgression of the law 1John3:4
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by observing the law/not committing sin, rather through the law we become conscious of sin Rom 3:20
J
James456
Guest
J
James456
Guest
Well you should still give me your thoughts on it, I gave you mine on your verses. Why not have a go
Yes what you said reminded me of those bereees in James concerning the causation of our sin
J
James456
Guest
You can transgress the ten commandments in your thoughts. If you feared certain thoughts could send you to hell, what would you end up thinking about?
Can you escape thinking about what you fear?
Mainly tbat there are two seperate covenants we’re discussing one is made through Moses with the children of isreel
“And this is the law which Moses set before the children of Israel: these are the testimonies, and the statutes, and the judgments, which Moses spake unto the children of Israel, after they came forth out of Egypt,”
Deuteronomy 4:44-45 KJV
And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them. The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me. And it came to pass, when ye heard the voice out of the midst of the darkness, (for the mountain did burn with fire,) that ye came near unto me, even all the heads of your tribes, and your elders; and ye said, Behold, the LORD our God hath shewed us his glory and his greatness, and we have heard his voice out of the midst of the fire: we have seen this day that God doth talk with man, and he liveth. Now therefore why should we die? for this great fire will consume us: if we hear the voice of the LORD our God any more, then we shall die. Go thou near, and hear all that the LORD our God shall say: and speak thou unto us all that the LORD our God shall speak unto thee; and we will hear it, and do it. And the LORD heard the voice of your words, when ye spake unto me; and the LORD said unto me, I have heard the voice of the words of this people, which they have spoken unto thee: they have well said all that they have spoken.”
Deuteronomy 5:1-2, 22-25, 27-28 KJV
“And Moses alone shall come near the LORD: but they shall not come nigh; neither shall the people go up with him. And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do. And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel. And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient. And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.”
Exodus 24:2-4, 7-8 KJV
i had quoted this point
“What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.”
Deuteronomy 12:32 KJV
“These are the statutes and judgments, which ye shall observe to do in the land, which the LORD God of thy fathers giveth thee to possess it, all the days that ye live upon the earth.”
Deuteronomy 12:1 KJV
Just to show that Moses words to the children of Israel is the mediation of the old covenant between God and abrams descendants of flesh ( the children of Jacob who is Israel )
and Jesus Christ the lord , his words mediate the new covenant the gospel which was sent to all creation including Israel who received it first and then gentikes and also Israelites after
i was just supporting what you had said in the prior post
Deuteronomy 30 prophesies about a time when the Israelites would return from exile, God would circumcise their hearts, and they would return to obedience to the Law of Moses, which is what Jeremiah 31 and Hebrew 10:15-18 are speaking in regard to, so I have no idea why you think it is ridiculous to connect a prophecy with its fulfillment.
The New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so it would be ridiculous for anyone who doesn’t want to obey the Mosaic Law to want to come under the New Covenant.
Right you can covet which breaks a commandment
“If you feared certain thoughts could send you to hell, what would you end up thinking about?”
thats what the gospel is meant for and why we need to hear and believe it …..
“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
and be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
Ephesians 4:21-24 KJV
the gospel is meant to change how we understand God , ourselves , the world we live in and even what happens after we die . If we let the things Jesus was teaching into our mind and heart he will change the issue
“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
Mark 7:21-23 KJV
commiting adultery was sin and is sin and will always be sin.
telling a corrupted sinner not to sin will never work though . But if you could change thier mind and heart cleanse the corruption and fill thier mind with the things of God the things he taught us to believe and dwell upon , if you teach them to not lust after thier neighbors wife then they never will commit adultery with her they will repent before they ever act .
Jesus is about taking a sinner and changing us to those who are after Hods own heart and want to walk in our lords ways out of gratitude and appreciation and love for him in return . The law was about regulating the corrupt sinners actions towards others “ don’t kill each other “ don’t lie to each other “ don’t steal from each other “
Its given as “ don’t do this sinful thing “ because they were corrupt and sinful people idolaters and sexually Immoral ect remember they had spent four hundred years without hearing from God in Egypt , a notoriously idolatrous nation even remembered today fornthier many idolatrous gods .
You tell an idolater “ don’t make idols and worship them “ you don’t tell Christian’s this they already believe in one God who sent his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life “
of course making an idol and worshipping a false god , would still be a terrible sin it’s just that Christian’s have the holt spirit and he’s changing us inside . If we just follow him on the gospel learn his ways and teachings ……we don’t need to be told “ don’t kill “ Jesus teaches us to love and do no harm to anyone so “ don’t kill “ becomes irrelevant we already know to love one another in his name and way …..it’s like this always .
we have a New Testament it comes through Jesus Christ itnisnt Moses word to ancient isreel it’s Jesus word to the world
It’s impossible to obey Moses law and also the gospel …….we have to obey Jesus not Moses
In Romans 10:5-8, Paul referred to Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to proclaiming that the Law of Moses is not too difficult for us to obey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! So it was presented as possibility and as a choice, not as something that is impossible to obey. There are many examples of people in the Bible of people who did obey the Law of Moses, such as with those in Joshua 22:1-3, Luke 1:5-6, Revelation 14:12, and Revelation 22:14. Moreover, it is obvious that we can keep it, such as that is not impossible to refrain from committing theft.
In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Law of Moses was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom/Grace.
Jesus said that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes form the mouth of God (Matthew 4:4), so we can't obey Jesus instead of every word that comes from the mouth of God. The same God who gave the Law to Moses also sent Jesus as the promised seed to bless us by turning us from our wickedness in disobedience to it (Acts 3:25-26), so there is no disagreement.
J
James456
Guest
The new covenant is specifically mentioned in Heb10:15-18&Jeremiah31:31-34. It is stated to be the new covenant in those verses, so your reasoning is not credible.
And under the core terms of the new covenant God Himself will place his laws in believers hearts and minds, they do NOT themselves internalise them! And what is in your mind you in your mind must know, what is in your heart you in your heart want to follow. And if you ignore, or commit ''wilfull sin concerning what is in your heart and mind you will have heartfelt consciousness of sin by so doing.
The old covenant could be understood without the indwelling Holy Spirit, the new covenant cannot be, the Spirit guides us into truth concerning it. Hence, many can only rationalise a form of the old covenant
In Deuteromy 30, it prophesies about a time when the Israelites would return from exile, God would circumcise their hearts, and they would return to obedience to the Law of Moses, which is what Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Hebrews 10:25-28 as also speaking in regard to as the fulfillment of that prophecy, so why is my reasoning not credible?
I agree that we do not internalize the Law of Moses under the New Covenant and I have not suggested otherwise, but rather I have repeatedly stated that it involves God doing that (Deuteronomy 30:6). In Ezekiel 36:26-27, it is also speaking in regard to the fulfillment of the prophecy in Deuteronomy 30 in regard to the New Covenant involving God taking away our hearts of stone, giving hearts of flesh, and sending His Spirit to lead us in obedience to the Law of Moses, so it would be contradictory for someone to want to receive the Holy Spirit while also not wanting to obey the Law of Moses. The Spirit guides has the role of leading in truth and the Law of Moses is truth (Psalms 119:142), so again it would be contradictory for someone to want to be led by the Spirit while also rejecting the truth.
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James456
Guest
Im really not interested in deut 30 concerning this and you have much been shown why. God Himself writes the law in believers minds and places it on their hearts. It is an internal law now, NOT an external law, and the internal law is instinctively known. Which proves, much of the law you believe must be followed is not placed in believers hearts and minds, because you would not have known much of what you follow without firstly reading of it in ink.
This conversation is going round in circles and not getting anywhere, so I will withdraw from it
The New Covenant involves God writing the Law of Moses internally on our hearts, so if the Law of Moses is not being written internally on someone's heart, then what does that imply about whether or not they are under the New Covenant?
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James456
Guest
Well I will answer that. If(if) your views were correct, no one could be in a saved state unless they had heartfelt consciousness of sin at failing to follow all possible Mosaic law/they could not be in covenant with God. Which would mean, you would be chatting to few christians on this website!