Loss of salvation???

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
No it wasn't. It was only evidence that the Holy Spirit had fallen on them. No where in Acts 10 does it say anyone was filled with the Spirit.

You might take a closer look at Joel 2. No where does it say the Spirit indwells or fills anyone. It says the Spirit is poured out upon them.

You are conflating filling with pouring out upon and falling upon. 2 separate operations of the Spirit and performed by different members of the Godhead. The promise of Joel 2 is the outpouring of the Spirit. No mention of the filling or indwelling of the Spirit. The indwelling of the Spirit is found in Ezekiel among other places.
Again, you are avoiding what scripture clearly reveals. Peter clarified that their experience of being filled with the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues was in fact what was prophesied by Joel. (Acts 2:4-18)

The evidence that Cornelius and others had in fact been filled with the Holy Ghost is clarified by Peter. Peter said their experience was the same thing that happened to he and others at Pentecost. (Acts 11:15) And in both cases speaking in tongues evidenced the arrival of the Holy Ghost into the believers' bodies.


Acts 2:2-4
And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, AND began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 10:44-46
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.


Acts 11:15
And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, (Acts 10:44-46) as on us at the beginning. (Acts 2:2-4)
 
Converts? where does that come from?

It does not say baptize converts at all, why would you say that?

Why would JESUS tell HIS DISIPLES to go and baptize people?
You don't know what a convert is? Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. That verse may not grab your attention since it does not mention baptism. Water baptism does not cause people to become disciples and our decision to become disciples is signified in baptism.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Just_A__Follower
Faith: Vines Greek dictionary.
1) a firm conviction.
2) a personal surrender to Him.
3) a life inspired by such surrender.

That's Biblical faith and faithing . Pistis and pisteuo. No mention of Faith being Gods word alive, although in a vague sense could partly be true.

Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

No word, no faith, no faith, no absolute assurance.

If you think you can generate that from yourself? Go for it. :D
 
You don't know what a convert is? Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. That verse may not grab your attention since it does not mention baptism. Water baptism does not cause people to become disciples and our decision to become disciples is signified in baptism.

You are right it does not mention batism or does it?

Acts 3:19
King James Version
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

Looking at that verse it says REPENT AND BE CONVERTED.

It does not say, REPENT ARE YOU ARE CONVERTED.

So if you want to be converted and your sins blotted out what do we have to do?

How do we become converted???
 
You are right it does not mention batism or does it?

Acts 3:19
King James Version
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

Looking at that verse it says REPENT AND BE CONVERTED.

It does not say, REPENT ARE YOU ARE CONVERTED.

So if you want to be converted and your sins blotted out what do we have to do?

How do we become converted???
Acts 3:19 alongside of these verses (Luke 24:47; Acts 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) answers your question about conversion and sins being blotted out in which forgiveness is explicitly tied to repentance/belief/faith and not baptism. Water baptism is a sign of that reality but not the source of it. You must look beyond your pet verses and consider the totality of scripture.

Luke 24:47 - and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 5:31 - Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 10:43 - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?” 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life.” *What happened to baptism?

Acts 13:38 - Therefore, let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins; 39 and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 15:7 - And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 16:30 - And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” *What happened to baptism?

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

*So, the only logical and Biblical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings conversion and the remission of sins. (Luke 24:47; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sipsey
Acts 3:19 alongside of these verses (Luke 24:47; Acts 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) answers your question about conversion and sins being blotted out in which forgiveness is explicitly tied to repentance/belief/faith and not baptism. Water baptism is a sign of that reality but not the source of it. You must look beyond your pet verses and consider the totality of scripture.

Luke 24:47 - and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 5:31 - Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 10:43 - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?” 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life.” *What happened to baptism?

Acts 13:38 - Therefore, let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins; 39 and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 15:7 - And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 16:30 - And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” *What happened to baptism?

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

*So, the only logical and Biblical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings conversion and the remission of sins. (Luke 24:47; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*

Wonder why there is such a battle with getting in the water and how we get rid of our sins?

Can you show any place where it says in fact exactly how we get rid of our sins besides Acts 2:38 and 22:16?

Any saying very clear no questions to ask, beyond a shadow of doubt.

So clear and precise that you would trust your life with it?
 
Can you show any place where it says in fact exactly how we get rid of our sins besides Acts 2:38 and 22:16?

Romans 2:4
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God
leadeth thee to repentance?

2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
Godly sorrow is the stronger of the 2 references since it leads to "repentance to salvation not to be repented of"

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Hebrews 10:28-31
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and
hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the
Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall
judge his people.
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Answers to your Quandary

Galatians 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.


All things are possible thru Christ (Philippians 4:13), so THRU JESUS we actually DO have the ability to stop sinning IF, IF we humble ourselves under His Mighty Hand (that's God's Word at God's Right Hand - Jesus Who is THE Christ)

1 Peter 5:6
Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 2:1
I write these things unto you, that ye sin not

Galatians 5:16
Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh

James 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil

John 8:34
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

We should not be willingly or knowingly doing sinful things... it should be a very rare occasion for a Christian to sin and IF they did it would NOT be a situation where it's something they knew it was sinful and they decided to do it anyway.

1 John 1:8 is obviously speaking of if we claim we have never sinned... or if we make a mistake such as dropping something on the floor accidentally which is an imperfection that is not unto death (does not cause us to be separated from God like sin does)
 
Wonder why there is such a battle with getting in the water and how we get rid of our sins?

Can you show any place where it says in fact exactly how we get rid of our sins besides Acts 2:38 and 22:16?

Any saying very clear no questions to ask, beyond a shadow of doubt.

So clear and precise that you would trust your life with it?
I already previously covered this with you in post #4,528 from the link below and elsewhere.

Loss of salvation??? - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums https://share.google/wjeR9YHzFINE1IvKp
 
Romans 2:4
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God
leadeth thee to repentance?

2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
Godly sorrow is the stronger of the 2 references since it leads to "repentance to salvation not to be repented of"

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Hebrews 10:28-31
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and
hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the
Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall
judge his people.
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Answers to your Quandary

Galatians 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.


All things are possible thru Christ (Philippians 4:13), so THRU JESUS we actually DO have the ability to stop sinning IF, IF we humble ourselves under His Mighty Hand (that's God's Word at God's Right Hand - Jesus Who is THE Christ)

1 Peter 5:6
Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 2:1
I write these things unto you, that ye sin not

Galatians 5:16
Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh

James 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil

John 8:34
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

We should not be willingly or knowingly doing sinful things... it should be a very rare occasion for a Christian to sin and IF they did it would NOT be a situation where it's something they knew it was sinful and they decided to do it anyway.

1 John 1:8 is obviously speaking of if we claim we have never sinned... or if we make a mistake such as dropping something on the floor accidentally which is an imperfection that is not unto death (does not cause us to be separated from God like sin does)

Did one of them say how we get rid of our sins?
 
As long as you trust them with your life, eternity is a long time.
By faith, I believe in/trust in Jesus Christ (with my life) as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation. (John 3:15,16,18; 10:9; 14:6; Acts 10:43; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 20:21; Romans 1:16; 3:24-26; 4:5-6; 5:1; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; 1 John 5:13 etc..). ✝️
 
By faith, I believe in/trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation. (John 3:15,16,18; 10:9; 14:6; Acts 10:43; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 20:21; Romans 1:16; 3:24-26; 4:5-6; 5:1; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; 1 John 5:13 etc..). ✝️

You can beleive anything you like, you can say it as much as you like.

That still does not make it true.
 
Yes it is because it is something we have to do or GOD'S word is not true!!
I would be careful saying you did something to get rid of your own sins. I myself take zero credit for His work. Do you honestly think that you getting into some water takes your sins away as if Jesus being beat half to death and then hung on a cross while being mocked and left to bleed and suffocate to death just wasn’t enough? He still needs us to take a bath to get the rest of the sins off?
 
You can beleive anything you like, you can say it as much as you like.

That still does not make it true.
Are you saying those verses I cited to you are not true? Do you believe that Jesus Christ is an ALL-sufficient Savior or an IN-sufficient savior?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Just_A__Follower
Are you saying those verses I cited to you are not true? Do you believe that Jesus Christ is an ALL-sufficient Savior or an IN-sufficient savior?

All of the verse you shared are true, of course.

BUT NOT ONE OF THEM SAYS WHAT WE HAVE TO DO TO GET RID OF OUR SINS.

If not for JESUS we would not have the water to get rid of our sins.

He can only be suffiient to those who OBEY.