Loss of salvation???

[Kroogz]

Same question, how do we get rid of them?

In all honesty, that is a shameful Question. You put the Lord Jesus Christ to shame for even asking the question.

If you were Son focused rather than sin focused........You have your answer over and over and over in His word.

 

[Genez]

As a Jew who knows many fellow Jews, a number of them historians, others Messianic Jews who know the Bible, reading both the Greek and Hebrew, they do indeed attest to the fact that the Messianic Jews of the first century did indeed believe in water baptism for salvation because that was the means for the remission of sins for them. They also believe in Paul's Gospel that is not at all built upon water baptism as was Peter's Gospel of the Kingdom in Acts 2.

So, my fellow Jews disagree with your statements about them and our ancestors portrayed in the epistles. Perhaps your pastor teaches what you stated, but he's dead wrong if he did. Love you too brother, but I disagree about our own history among Messianic Jews.

MM

That mistake started with Peter's error, that he later corrected.
Many miss when Peter realized his mistake.

Here is some background as to why Peter began immediately commanding water baptism.

Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining ​

and baptizing more disciples than John— although in fact it was not ​

Jesus who baptized, but his disciples. John 4:1-2​

Now that was a lot of water baptizing going on by Peter and the disciples!

It became a way of life for Peter.

So?

He simply continued ordering water baptizing thousands of people.

He continued with water until the moment he recalled the following words of Jesus spoken soon after his resurrection...

On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: ​

“Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have ​

heard me speak about. ​

For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” Acts 1:4-5​

In all the bombardment of excitement Peter was experiencing since seeing the risen Christ,
Peter simply was highly distracted and simply forgot what Jesus had said.

Then around the time of Acts 10 and 11, it finally hit home with Peter.

“As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. ​

Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized ​

with the Holy Spirit.’ Acts 11:15-16​

Then - Acts 11! Peter remembered!
Not before!
In Acts 2 Peter was instantly overwhelmed in certain ways.

Peter finally remembered the Lord's words. But, only after having commanded thousands of water baptisms for many newly saved souls.

That is why we experience the confusion like we see today concerning water baptism.
Too many Christians are failing to see how Peter was setting out into a new and unexplored spiritual frontier.
A frontier that needed the chosen explorers to learn and make adjustments from time to time.

I pray that helps someone.

Grace and peace .........

 

[Genez]

Same question, how do we get rid of them?

Every time you sin?

Believe 1 John 1:9 !

​

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us ​

our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. ​

grace and peace!

 

[Kroogz]

That mistake started with Peter's error, that he later corrected.
Many miss when Peter realized his mistake.

Here is some background as to why Peter began immediately commanding water baptism.

Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining ​

and baptizing more disciples than John— although in fact it was not ​

Jesus who baptized, but his disciples. John 4:1-2​

Now that was a lot of water baptizing going on by Peter and the disciples!

It became a way of life for Peter.

So?

He simply continued ordering water baptizing thousands of people.

He continued with water until the moment he recalled the following words of Jesus spoken soon after his resurrection...

On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: ​

“Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have ​

heard me speak about. ​

For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” Acts 1:4-5​

In all the bombardment of excitement Peter was experiencing since seeing the risen Christ,
Peter simply was highly distracted and simply forgot what Jesus had said.

Then around the time of Acts 10 and 11, it finally hit home with Peter.

“As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. ​

Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized ​

with the Holy Spirit.’ Acts 11:15-16​

Then - Acts 11! Peter remembered!
Not before!
In Acts 2 Peter was instantly overwhelmed in certain ways.

Peter finally remembered the Lord's words. But, only after having commanded thousands of water baptisms for many newly saved souls.

That is why we experience the confusion like we see today concerning water baptism.
Too many Christians are failing to see how Peter was setting out into a new and unexplored spiritual frontier.
A frontier that needed the chosen explorers to learn and make adjustments from time to time.

I pray that helps someone.

Grace and peace .........

Thank you @Genez. I am a sophomore(Moron) in His word, and could not explain it as well as you have.

 

[Toknow]

Thank you @Genez. I am a sophomore(Moron) in His word, and could not explain it as well as you have.

So has @Genez convinced you that a born again person has no need for WATER baptism?
What does your church teach you??

 

[Toknow]

This is the one and only work (not works) we do for salvation.

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”​

​

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”​

​

John 6:28-29​

​

​

......​

@Ouch asked you HOW we remove sins and you reply with the idea that we only need to believe in the One God has sent?

Some clarification would be nice since these odd doctrines will be sending some straight to hell due to incorrect teachings to new Christians that tickle the ear.


2 Timothy 4:3-4
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,

 

[Toknow]

Not everyone is saved.

Jesus did all that was needed so that anyone who wanted to believe?

Would be entered into salvation.

Its like he paid for everyone's ticket.
But only those who claim their ticket can get in.

The above sounds dangerously close to easy believism and cheap grace.
Not terms I made up but that have meaning.

Sounds very much like sola fide.

And it seems to me that some members on here are dancing around this subject instead of facing it head-on.

 

[Toknow]

​

That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, ​

who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe." 1 Tim 4:10​

​

​

He died for the sins of the whole world.​

......

Please not that @Kroogz is giving you LIKES....
and you are not properly representing what JESUS taught by posting only sola fide type verses that make it APPEAR
that obedience to God may not be necessary or that we need ONLY faith to be saved with no accompanying good works.

This would not be what Jesus taught and since Jesus is our Savior, I would suggest that we do not improperly represent Him.

 

[Toknow]

I love this @Cameron143. But it is from my understanding of Scripture.

What must I do to be saved? Acts 16:31. He doesn't arbitrarily indwell a sinner. He indwells those who believe. He set the standard, and we must follow His standard.


Acts 16:31 Believe in the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved......Indwelling. 1 John 1:9 Name and site our sin to God......Filling.

What IS the standard for salvation?

 

[Toknow]

Sorry for the multiple posts...
it's due to the time difference.

 

[Toknow]

BUT.......were they right? Many believe it, doesn't make it the truth.

Same as today with the water baptism crowd. Many believe it, but it doesn't make it the truth.

All through scripture.......It is Grace through faith that saves, not some boastful fruit/work/deed.

@Genez might want to weigh in?

OK
Just saw this.
So Genez is your spiritual advisor?

Why?

Because you believe as he does or because he has convinced you?

How can you be sure that Genez is correct in what he states?

And you're asking @Musicmaster about what the early church taught.
The early church taught water baptism.

Who do YOU think knows more?
Some persons on this thread
or the Apostles and those the Apostles taught?

Some questions for you to ponder.

 

[Ouch]

Not sure how my belief doesn’t include those things but I guess you can always disagree to disagree. The thing is if we go back and forth for a few days on this, would the outcome actually be one of us changing our beliefs? I doubt it. You believe the KJV is the only version that is true but yet you aren’t fluent in 1600’s English. Neither am I which is why I use other versions for the most part which you don’t trust. So it seems we are at a stalemate.

Morning,

Yes, I will never believe just faith alone gets you saved.

If I agree to disagree that is saying both of us may be right but can't prove it or one of us is to stuborant to admit they are wrong.

I don't what your blood on my hands, so I want it to be clear the way you think you can't back it up with HIS word.

JESUS said we have to be born of water and of spirit to enter.

You say we don't.

Don't be concerned with bible I read, do be concerned that in all of them you can't get away from we have to be born of water and of spirit!!!

Can you tell me why JESUS who had ALL POWER, told HIS disciples this?

Matthew 28,
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Why did JESUS tell HIS disciples to baptize and to observe ALL thingshe has commented THEM to do?

Did you notice JESUS also told them that HE would always be with them?

Are you a JESUS disciple?

 

[Toknow]

BUT.......were they right? Many believe it, doesn't make it the truth.

Same as today with the water baptism crowd. Many believe it, but it doesn't make it the truth.

All through scripture.......It is Grace through faith that saves, not some boastful fruit/work/deed.

@Genez might want to weigh in?

So you do NOT DO good works (as Jesus commanded that you do)
because you worry that you might BOAST about them?

Is this what you do Kroogz?
You do a good deed and then you boast about it.

And you should learn the difference between a FRUIT of the Spirit
and the works of the Spirit.

Make sure you undersand what JESUS taught and not what anyone on this thread is teaching...
including me. Find out for yourself by carefully reading the words in red in your bible.

 

[Ouch]

Does everyone believe?

I guess you forgot, I told you I'm done debating with you.

You believe when we get the spirit it gets rid of our sins.

You can't prove it so how can anyone have any kind of debate with someone who says something and will not back it up what they say?

And when I show you how sins are remitted you will not accept HIS word and just DEFLECT!!

Best of luck with your thinking, your still talking so there is hope.

If you can tell me at how sins are remitted in Acts 2:38 and 22:16 we can move on and debate some more.

 

[Ouch]

You are the one in error.

I guess you forgot, I told you I'm done debating with you.

You believe when we get the spirit it gets rid of our sins.

You can't prove it so how can anyone have any kind of debate with someone who says something and will not back it up what they say?

And when I show you how sins are remitted you will not accept HIS word and just DEFLECT!!

Best of luck with your thinking, your still talking so there is hope.

If you can tell me at how sins are remitted in Acts 2:38 and 22:16 we can move on and debate some more.

 

[Ouch]

In Christ's work on the Cross for our sin and Him being raised from the dead. That's the Gospel 101.

1Cor.15:2-4
2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

It is written.

I guess you forgot, I told you I'm done debating with you.

You believe when we get the spirit it gets rid of our sins.

You can't prove it so how can anyone have any kind of debate with someone who says something and will not back it up what they say?

And when I show you how sins are remitted you will not accept HIS word and just DEFLECT!!

Best of luck with your thinking, your still talking so there is hope.

If you can tell me at how sins are remitted in Acts 2:38 and 22:16 we can move on and debate some more.

 

[Ouch]

Are you well?

Using the "making no sense" ploy to make everyone forget what was said that was showing how you are wrong?

You are becoming absurd.

Morning,

Can you tell everyone HOW WE GET RID OF OUR SINS?

You can't or can see it but refuse to accept it.

That makes no sense to me!

 

[Ouch]

​

That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, ​

who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe." 1 Tim 4:10​

​

​

He died for the sins of the whole world.​

......

Not debating none of that GOD IS GOOD.

 

[Ouch]

In all honesty, that is a shameful Question. You put the Lord Jesus Christ to shame for even asking the question.

If you were Son focused rather than sin focused........You have your answer over and over and over in His word.

Morning, Sin is my main focuse, sin we will NOT ENTER Heaven with them.

Sinced the one I talking to doesn't beleive we need to be bapitzed in JESUS name to remove our sins, WHY IS IT SHAMFULL?????

What is shamfull is me not questing them, and there blood would be on my hands.

If not for the Son putting HIS blood on the mercey seat and giving us instructions on how to get rid of them we would have nothing to talk about.

Do you have a problem with what we have to do to get rid of our sins?

What is sad is since people will not just obey and get in the water we don't even get a chance to talk about JESUS coming in to them via the Holy Ghost.

Need both to be reborn. John 3:5, Acts 2:38

 

[Ouch]

Every time you sin?

Believe 1 John 1:9 !

​

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us ​

our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. ​

grace and peace!

AMEN, but that is after we have been reborn.

JESUS knows we can not go through life without sinning, so after we are reborn all we need to do is repent and confess those sins to HIM.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

1 Corinthians 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

That is why Paul says I die daily, we all have to.

How do we get reborn?