Loss of salvation???
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Two different births = Born Again.
Born first time was flesh..
Born second time, is Spirit.
Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Two births!!!
Except a man be born of water = mother breaks water just before labor = First birth!+
Water comes first! Human birth!
And, then, born of the Spirit!
= becoming regenerated by God, causing one to become spiritually alive!
TWO BIRTHS!
Water baptism?
That was OT teaching and only able to be symbolic!
John the Baptist was an OT believer!
The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. "
Hebrews 10:1a
Water baptism symbolized being buried with Jesus in his death, and rising up unto eternal life!
Christians are not to be primitive thinkers!
We have been called to gain understanding and wisdom.
And this is my prayer:
That your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight,
so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless
for the day of Christ." Philippians 1:9-10
We are to no more dwell on living in our emotions to guide us through life... But to walk in UNDERSTANDING AND INSIGHT from learning sound doctrine!
Carnal and apostate Christians will use Scripture to dull us down with.
We are to be alive and thinking sharper than a two-edged sword!
Satan used Scripture when he tried to trip up Jesus in His temptation!
Get with sound doctrine.
Learn to think and reason with God.
grace and peace......
You are right I does not state that after we believe and not baptized we will go to hell.
In HIS word it says sin seperates us from GOD and how we are to get rid of them we need to put all scripture together.
You will also not find one scripture saying if you beleive YOU ARE IN FACT SAVED.
If it did HIS word would contratice it's self.
I'm confused, in both cases they were baptized?
You have that right!!!
Sad part is we can share scripture with some and they just don't get it.
Just plant those seeds and move on.
““For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.”
John 3:16 ESV
“And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.””
Acts 16:31 ESV
“because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.”
Romans 10:9-10 ESV
After sharing those verses with a co-worker, he stood up and exclaimed, “If that’s all it takes, anybody could get saved.” I responded that I thought that was the point. He was unhappy that it seemed too easy.
If one understands the ramifications of those verses, they would understand it’s not a case of “easy believeism.”
All of HIS word is good, and we need to keep it in context.
Who is Paul speaking to, the saved and telling them what they have to do or the unsaved?
Romans 10
King James Version
1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Paul is telling his church to get out and preach so they remain saved!!!
So, are you implying that a person who has trusted in the crucifixion and resurrection and Indwelt with the Holy Spirit, and even has a watery baptism, that they could simply decide they were wrong and undo God’s gift and unseal themselves?
Gee.
I agreed with everything you said.
Except that the case for John 3:5 can be debated, and I don't mean by us,,,
I mean by biblical scholars.
BUT
then I get to the end and you tell me I need to get some sound docrine and I should learn to THINK and reason with God.
Whoa!
Will give it my best shot.
Definietly Lydia. She was a God-fearing woman and was baptized after she met Paul.
Can't remember about Cornelius,,,but he also was a God-fearing man and was thus saved.
And you should also consider Romans 1:20-21
What do you make of that?
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
21 For even though they knew God, they did not [a]honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
For sure, do you believe once saved always saved???
We just went thougth scriptures proving we sin daily and how we get rid of our sins after we have been reborn.
We can't get reborn and just do as we please.
How am I interperting???
Paul is speaking to a church not the unsaved!!
The other two say what they say, but are not stand alone scriptures.
You stated that no where in scripture did it state that we will be saved if we believe. I gave you 3 but I guess you interpreted them as saying something different. And please look up the definition of the word interpret. You also assume that everyone Paul was preaching to was saved. Have you ever been in a congregation where 100% of the people there are saved believers? Not likely.
If you want to just go with scripture says what it says then, there is not a single verse that says that one is not saved if they are not baptized.
I may have misunderstood your post....sorry.
But I'll go through it now.
Good point.
But when a teacher is speaking to a class, he does not repeat everything every time.
The absence of proof is not the proof of absence.
Paul does speak to baptism:
Acts 22:16
16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’
Note that he equates WASHING with baptism. To wash one needs water. Some on here do not seem to equate the two, saying that baptism is purely spiritual.
Again here Paul speaks of being WASHED.
1 Corinthians 6:11
11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Galatians 3:26-27
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
Note that Paul is speaking about persons that are sons of God through faith in Jesus...
But he also notes that they were baptized into Christ.
Baptize means to dip into water.
Thus all the refernces to water, and washing.
If this is not understood, it will cause confusion.
But Paul himself baptized.
1 Corinthians 1:11-17
11 For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe’s people, that there are quarrels among you.
12 Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, “I am of Paul,” and “I of Apollos,” and “I of Cephas,” and “I of Christ.”
13 [h]Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized [i]in the name of Paul?
14 [j]I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius,
15 so that no one would say you were baptized [k]in my name.
16 Now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized any other.
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in [l]cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.
Note that Paul distinguishes from BAPTISM and the preaching of the gospel....for which he was sent.
There was a misunderstanding about the NAME to be usesd in the baptismal formula.
Some were saying IAM OF PAUL or I AM OF APOLLOS...Paul wanted to concentrate on his teaching and we cannot know
whether or not he mentioned this to those to whom he preached.
Paul did write about baptism in his letters, it was understood to be with water,
and his letter did circulate among the churches.
What was preached in those churches we cannot know...
I would have to believe that baptism was taught since it is spoken about a lot in the letters of him and others.
And by JESUS Himself.
He stated in Matthew 28 that the Apostles shoud baptize.
This was a command.
Jesus Himself was baptized to fulfill all righteousness....and it was in water, as was the custom.
It seems to me that all Chrstians would agree with your verses.
1 Corinthians 15 is the very first creed...explaining what Christians should believe.
Ephesians 2:8 explains HOW we are saved.
Baptism will not be mentioned in every chapter of every letter/gospel.
If it is mentioned just one or two times...it should be enough for us.
And don't all denominations teach that we are to be baptized?
The message HAS been passed down from the very beginning.
Precious friend, yes, the water baptism message has been passed down, and
denominational traditions about it have become Very Confusing with 10-15
"different methods" - solution?:
1) "God Is Not the author of confusion..." (1 Corinthians 14:33 AV)
2) Under Grace Today, He Only Has One [ Spiritual ] Baptism
3) Precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:
The Bible: The BIG Picture
Amen.
Hi Grace ambassador !
Nice to see you here.
Just joined.
Yes ma'am.
JESUS IS GOD.
He said to be BAPTIZED.
Baptize means IN WATER.
After JESUS filled Cornelius and those with him Peter commanment them to be baprized.
I think Paul is saying that GOD has showen HIS power and HIS nature which people have seen so they don't have any excuse.
They knew about GOD and what HE did but rejected HIM.
Agreed.
But notice that it states that man has ALWAYS known about God...
not just after Jesus.
IOW,,,,man could be saved just by knowing about God in whatever way God revealed himself.
In Romans 1 God revealed Himself through nature.
There would be no way for a person that learned about God ONLY through nature to know that they must be baptized.
So if a person becomes saved, and does even actually know about Jesus...they won't be held responsible for not being baptized until they understand that Jesus commanded this.
God will only judge us by what we know.