John 3:16 Rom 8:8 Rom 10:17

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BillyBob

BillyBob

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Dec 20, 2023
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We are told that faith comes by hearing [Rom 10:17].
We are also told that whoever believes will have eternal life [John 3:16].
On the other hand we are also told that those in the flesh cannot please God [Rom 8:8]

Is faith/trust/belief achievable by fallen man? Must they come prior to salvation? Or, are they gifts received from the Holy Spirit during the salvation process?
 
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

If we are saved by grace through faith, then faith would have to be first.
 
BillyBob said:
We are told that faith comes by hearing [Rom 10:17].
We are also told that whoever believes will have eternal life [John 3:16].
On the other hand we are also told that those in the flesh cannot please God [Rom 8:8]

Is faith/trust/belief achievable by fallen man? Must they come prior to salvation? Or, are they gifts received from the Holy Spirit during the salvation process?
Click to expand...
the answer is easy.

book of Acts chapter 13 verse 38:
"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed. "
 
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BillyBob said:
We are told that faith comes by hearing [Rom 10:17].
We are also told that whoever believes will have eternal life [John 3:16].
On the other hand we are also told that those in the flesh cannot please God [Rom 8:8]

Is faith/trust/belief achievable by fallen man? Must they come prior to salvation? Or, are they gifts received from the Holy Spirit during the salvation process?
Click to expand...
Although it is our responsibility to choose to believe in Jesus Christ unto salvation and we will be held accountable for unbelief (John 3:18), saving belief in Jesus Christ is never exclusively a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us (John 6:44) and enables us (John 6:65), we would NEVER come to believe in Jesus Christ unto salvation all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to choose to believe in Christ, we must choose to believe in Him. The impulse to saving belief in Christ comes from the Father.
 
BillyBob said:
We are told that faith comes by hearing [Rom 10:17].
We are also told that whoever believes will have eternal life [John 3:16].
On the other hand we are also told that those in the flesh cannot please God [Rom 8:8]

Is faith/trust/belief achievable by fallen man? Must they come prior to salvation? Or, are they gifts received from the Holy Spirit during the salvation process?
Click to expand...
An age old question, a bit like chicken and egg except harder. Chicken came first, of course.

The Bible says that God gives a measure of faith. Since faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ, that measure of faith arises when someone accepts God's word with respect to salvation. We also read that the unfolding of God's Word brings light. "Unfolding" means personal revelation in this context.

The question is whether or not God effects a change in the heart of the individual prior to salvation. I believe that there is power in the gospel to effect that change. First, the person must be convicted of their sin. Second, the person must be convicted that there is nothing that they can do to atone for their sin. Then they must see that Jesus is indeed the only saviour, the only way to God. They must accept that Jesus died and rose again as the full and only sacrifice for their sin.

The other aspect of this is the parable of the sower. God's word can be preached to many but not all receive it. The difference is the state of the person's heart. Some reject God's word immediately. Their hearts are hard. Some accept but are shallow and superficial. A little pressure and they quit. Others are too concerned with worldly pursuits and allow those to overrule God's word. Some are honest sinners, who know that their only hope is Jesus.

Many believers hear the gospel a number of times before they receive Jesus as Saviour and Lord. God will work in the hearts of people, plowing up the hard ground, ridding the soil of excessive stones and showing people the vanity of the world, its cares and the deceitfulness of riches. You hear of many who grew up in Christian homes, who turned away and later accepted Christ in reality. God worked in their hearts, often through hard circumstances, to where they were open to the gospel.
 
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mailmandan said:
Although it is our responsibility to choose to believe in Jesus Christ unto salvation and we will be held accountable for unbelief (John 3:18), saving belief in Jesus Christ is never exclusively a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us (John 6:44) and enables us (John 6:65), we would NEVER come to believe in Jesus Christ unto salvation all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to choose to believe in Christ, we must choose to believe in Him. The impulse to saving belief in Christ comes from the Father.
Click to expand...

Thank you, this is a very well thought-out response, and I agree with what you say. The part that seems difficult to understand is Rom 8:8 which seems to imply that we are unable to please God. If we are unable, then does this not call for a change? If so, then what is it that makes us able?
 
BillyBob said:
Is faith/trust/belief achievable by fallen man?
Click to expand...

NO!!! it ONLY come as the result of "Hearing" the conviction directly from the Holy Spirit.

Must they come prior to salvation? Or, are they gifts received from the Holy Spirit during the salvation process?
Click to expand...

"Conviction of SIN" from the Holy Spirit is the first definitive step - anything short of that is nothing but "Mental assent" (Theology), then UNDER CONVICTION, repentance and crying out to God are what complete's the process. Immediately The Holy Spirit indwells the person, and the rest of the life is spent maturing in the Spirit.

Biblical "Belief" is more loaded that the English version. "Belief includes Hearing, understanding and OBEYING.
 
timf said:
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

If we are saved by grace through faith, then faith would have to be first.
Click to expand...
This scripture implies that we are saved by a gift of God. Does that mean that the gift is given prior to being saved? Is this gift available to all? If so, why do not all come to faith?
Not arguing, just asking what makes us differ?
 
timf said:
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

If we are saved by grace through faith, then faith would have to be first.
Click to expand...

Actually, God's grace/love comes first, and saving faith accepts/reflects divine love.
God initiates; sinners cooperate--or not.
 
BillyBob said:
Thank you, this is a very well thought-out response, and I agree with what you say. The part that seems difficult to understand is Rom 8:8 which seems to imply that we are unable to please God. If we are unable, then does this not call for a change? If so, then what is it that makes us able?
Click to expand...
Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

The Spirit of God dwelling in us is the change.
 
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Melach said:
the answer is easy.

book of Acts chapter 13 verse 38:
"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed. "
Click to expand...
Thank you! Does this mean that election/appointment is a promise of things which will surely come to pass? Is it just the first step in the process of being brought to salvation? Is it in fact to be viewed as God's choosing men to salvation?
 
BillyBob said:
We are told that faith comes by hearing [Rom 10:17].
We are also told that whoever believes will have eternal life [John 3:16].
On the other hand we are also told that those in the flesh cannot please God [Rom 8:8]

Is faith/trust/belief achievable by fallen man? Must they come prior to salvation? Or, are they gifts received from the Holy Spirit during the salvation process?
Click to expand...

For me, It began at belief.
Eph 1:13 then I read throughout it all in context from Chapter 1 of any Epistle, Gospel or Acts writings.
For me. I saw the verses in Eph 1:6-7 after belief to God, he did it all, even before I had ever been born. All completed at the cross of Son, more so, being risen from the dead flesh.
I, now put Trust to God in what he has said through Scriptures written by Disciples and scribes of the Disciples, known as the Bible for us all to see by God love and mercy first true work of Son for everyone to choose to believe or not, consciously. For today and forever Jesus is risen for us to be new in love and mercy to all also John 13:34
I got harmed by others, beaten up, shot, stabbed, left for dead. I got naturally angry and wanted those to pay.
then I heard from within, what about you, are you perfect, have you done no wrongs ever to anyone else?

At first I did not want to admit I had, then finally I have and stand in honesty, not ever wanting to ever be called back to Court and pay restitution as that person had been called back, righteously so, by Father God himself. That person, could be anyone who did not appreciate and forgive since by God had forgiven him/her first
Thanks BillyBob fro this post
Matt 18:24-35
 
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BillyBob said:
Thank you! Does this mean that election/appointment is a promise of things which will surely come to pass? Is it just the first step in the process of being brought to salvation? Is it in fact to be viewed as God's choosing men to salvation?
Click to expand...
yes. the bible explicitly teaches this
 
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