Replacement theology? Yes or No.

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Replacement theology....hmm how to compare. I think flat earth vs round haha is a good one huh. Well truthful if you listen to one side .. man it sounds so true. I've never been one to jump in on this....its just.. you know something in side says no. When He told me "show me a branch that was not originally of the vine. I am the vine you are the branches". Yeah what ever I thought about Israel.. didn't matter and there was nothing to talk about. They are His.. they are originally of the vine. Yes today anyone that is not saved.. believed in trust in Yeshua are not His.

So a Replacement theology? Na.... you don't touch them.. apple of His eye

That's a good reference: So, what is done to branches that do not abide in Christ?

Here is the full reference: “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."

So are you claiming that only non-Jewish branches (I mean, Jesus is talking to an audience that is exclusively Jewish) are thrown into the fire if they are not in Christ? So this was a story told to Jews that has nothing to do with Jews?
 
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I agree but I don't make the connection with the discussion about Israel.

Some here take events from the gospels and book of acts as prophecy fulfillment. Adding in the 70 AD destruction of the temple as God's judgement against his people. Changing the narrative of eschatology coming to the conclusion of a spiritual take over sort of speak. Seeing the church as the only remnant to survive.
 
Some here take events from the gospels and book of acts as prophecy fulfillment. Adding in the 70 AD destruction of the temple as God's judgement against his people. Changing the narrative of eschatology coming to the conclusion of a spiritual take over sort of speak. Seeing the church as the only remnant to survive.

God did judge Israel, first with the destruction of the temple and finally with the destruction of Israel as a nation. As prophesied, once more God scattered His people. However, it is plain from the Book of Revelation that there must be a nation of Israel before the introduction of the millennial reign of Christ. And that is what the replacement people can't/won't get their heads around.
 
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God did judge Israel, first with the destruction of the temple and finally with the destruction of Israel as a nation. As prophesied, once more God scattered His people. However, it is plain from the Book of Revelation that there must be a nation of Israel before the introduction of the millennial reign of Christ. And that is what the replacement people can't/won't get their heads around.

People who believe this didn't get it from the Bible, as they love to accuse us of. Following is a history of Replacement Theology.

Replacement Theology teaches that apart from repentance, the new birth, and incorporation into the Church, the Jewish people have no future, no hope, and no calling in the plan of God. The promises, covenants and blessings ascribed to Israel in the Bible have been taken away from the Jews and given to the Church, which has superseded them. However, the Jews are subject to the curses found in the Bible, as a result of their rejection of Christ.

  • Ignatius of Antioch (ca 50-117 AD) — Taught that those who partake of the Passover are partakers with those who killed Jesus.
  • Justin Martyr (100-106 AD) — Claimed God’s covenant with Israel was no longer valid and that the Gentiles had replaced the Jews.
  • Irenaeus (ca 130-202 AD) — Declared the Jews were disinherited from the grace of God.
  • Tertullian (ca 155-230 AD) — Blamed the Jews for the death of Jesus and argued they had been rejected by God.
  • Origen (185-254 AD) — He was responsible for much anti-Semitism, all of which was based on his assertion that the Jews were responsible for killing Jesus.
  • Eusebius (ca 275-339 AD) — Taught that the promises of Scripture were meant for the Gentiles and the curses were meant for the Jews. He asserted that the Church was the “true Israel.”
  • Hilary of Poitiers (AD 291-371) wrote: “Jews are a perverse people accursed by God forever.”
  • Gregory of Nyssa (died AD 394), Bishop of Cappadocia wrote: “the Jews are a brood of vipers, haters of goodness...”
  • Jerome (AD 347-407) describes the Jews as “serpents, wearing the image of Judas, their psalms and prayers are the braying of donkeys.”
  • Augustine (354-430 AD) — Asserted that the Jews deserved death but were destined to wander the earth to witness the victory of the Church over the synagogue.
  • In 1478, Pope Sixtus IV granted the monarchs of Spain, Ferdinand and Isabella, the right to establish a special inquisition in Spain to deal with baptized Jews who were suspected of remaining faithful to Judaism. Thousands were burned at the stake by order of the Spanish Inquisition.
  • In 1492, King Ferdinand decided that all Spanish Jews should be banned from Spain. It was feared that Jews were a danger to Christianity. Approximately 150,000 Jews were forced to leave Spain.
  • The Council of Nicea (325 AD in Anatolia) — Prohibited Christians from sharing a meal with a Jew, marrying a Jew, blessing a Jew or observing the Sabbath. They changed the celebration of the Resurrection from the Jewish Feast of First Fruits to Easter in an attempt to disassociate it from Jewish feasts. The Council stated: “For it is unbecoming beyond measure that on this holiest of festivals we should follow the customs of the Jews. Henceforth let us have nothing in common with this odious people...” It decided that “the Sunday a week after the Sunday after Passover would be the official date, and that all celebrating on Passover would be considered anathema.” This is when the persecution of the Quartodecimans begins. The term “Quartodeciman” is Latin for “fourteeners“ and it referred to those that celebrated Passover on 14 Nisan. KHouse
 
However, it is plain from the Book of Revelation that there must be a nation of Israel before the introduction of the millennial reign of Christ. And that is what the replacement people can't/won't get their heads around.

They change the name, but the result is the same.
  • Anti-Semitism (Hatred of the Jews) This is the natural result of Arrogance + Allegorization + Aberration + Amillennialism.
    In 1543 Martin Luther wrote a pamphlet entitled “On the Jews and Their Lies.”
    They are: “A miserable and accursed people,”
    “Stupid fools,” “Miserable, blind and senseless,” “Thieves and robbers,” “The great vermin of humanity,” and “Lazy rogues.”

    Luther went on to write: “For such ruthless wrath of God is sufficient evidence that they [the Jewish people] assuredly have erred and gone astray. Even a child can comprehend this. For one dare not regard God as so cruel that he would punish his own people so long, so terrible, so unmercifully. Therefore, this work of wrath is proof that the Jews, surely rejected by God, are no longer his people, and neither is he any longer their God”
  • In 1924 at a Christian gathering in Berlin, Hitler spoke to thousands and received a standing ovation when he made the following proclamation: “I believe that today I am acting in accordance with the will of Almighty God as I announce the most important work that Christians could undertake — and that is to be against the Jews and get rid of them once and for all.
 
People who believe this didn't get it from the Bible, as they love to accuse us of. Following is a history of Replacement Theology.

Replacement Theology teaches that apart from repentance, the new birth, and incorporation into the Church, the Jewish people have no future, no hope, and no calling in the plan of God. The promises, covenants and blessings ascribed to Israel in the Bible have been taken away from the Jews and given to the Church, which has superseded them. However, the Jews are subject to the curses found in the Bible, as a result of their rejection of Christ.

  • Ignatius of Antioch (ca 50-117 AD) — Taught that those who partake of the Passover are partakers with those who killed Jesus.
  • Justin Martyr (100-106 AD) — Claimed God’s covenant with Israel was no longer valid and that the Gentiles had replaced the Jews.
  • Irenaeus (ca 130-202 AD) — Declared the Jews were disinherited from the grace of God.
  • Tertullian (ca 155-230 AD) — Blamed the Jews for the death of Jesus and argued they had been rejected by God.
  • Origen (185-254 AD) — He was responsible for much anti-Semitism, all of which was based on his assertion that the Jews were responsible for killing Jesus.
  • Eusebius (ca 275-339 AD) — Taught that the promises of Scripture were meant for the Gentiles and the curses were meant for the Jews. He asserted that the Church was the “true Israel.”
  • Hilary of Poitiers (AD 291-371) wrote: “Jews are a perverse people accursed by God forever.”
  • Gregory of Nyssa (died AD 394), Bishop of Cappadocia wrote: “the Jews are a brood of vipers, haters of goodness...”
  • Jerome (AD 347-407) describes the Jews as “serpents, wearing the image of Judas, their psalms and prayers are the braying of donkeys.”
  • Augustine (354-430 AD) — Asserted that the Jews deserved death but were destined to wander the earth to witness the victory of the Church over the synagogue.
  • In 1478, Pope Sixtus IV granted the monarchs of Spain, Ferdinand and Isabella, the right to establish a special inquisition in Spain to deal with baptized Jews who were suspected of remaining faithful to Judaism. Thousands were burned at the stake by order of the Spanish Inquisition.
  • In 1492, King Ferdinand decided that all Spanish Jews should be banned from Spain. It was feared that Jews were a danger to Christianity. Approximately 150,000 Jews were forced to leave Spain.
  • The Council of Nicea (325 AD in Anatolia) — Prohibited Christians from sharing a meal with a Jew, marrying a Jew, blessing a Jew or observing the Sabbath. They changed the celebration of the Resurrection from the Jewish Feast of First Fruits to Easter in an attempt to disassociate it from Jewish feasts. The Council stated: “For it is unbecoming beyond measure that on this holiest of festivals we should follow the customs of the Jews. Henceforth let us have nothing in common with this odious people...” It decided that “the Sunday a week after the Sunday after Passover would be the official date, and that all celebrating on Passover would be considered anathema.” This is when the persecution of the Quartodecimans begins. The term “Quartodeciman” is Latin for “fourteeners“ and it referred to those that celebrated Passover on 14 Nisan. KHouse
It is a terrible irony that the Europeans who despised and persecuted Jews are now pretty much controlled by Islam. As one Jewish comedian said, "I had a choice to learn French or Arabic at school. I wanted to visit Paris, so I learned Arabic".
 
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They change the name, but the result is the same.
  • Anti-Semitism (Hatred of the Jews) This is the natural result of Arrogance + Allegorization + Aberration + Amillennialism.
    In 1543 Martin Luther wrote a pamphlet entitled “On the Jews and Their Lies.”
    They are: “A miserable and accursed people,”
    “Stupid fools,” “Miserable, blind and senseless,” “Thieves and robbers,” “The great vermin of humanity,” and “Lazy rogues.”

    Luther went on to write: “For such ruthless wrath of God is sufficient evidence that they [the Jewish people] assuredly have erred and gone astray. Even a child can comprehend this. For one dare not regard God as so cruel that he would punish his own people so long, so terrible, so unmercifully. Therefore, this work of wrath is proof that the Jews, surely rejected by God, are no longer his people, and neither is he any longer their God”
  • In 1924 at a Christian gathering in Berlin, Hitler spoke to thousands and received a standing ovation when he made the following proclamation: “I believe that today I am acting in accordance with the will of Almighty God as I announce the most important work that Christians could undertake — and that is to be against the Jews and get rid of them once and for all.
God permitted all this persecution in order to encourage the restoration of the Jewish homeland. Of course, even then the wicked are not satisfied. They complain about Jews in their countries, then complain about Jews in Israel.

Israel has a growing economy and is exporting a great deal to the nations. Publicly, the Europeans condemn Israel. They appease the Muslim population. Can't upset the followers of a mass murdering paedophile, of course. At the same time, European nations are buying Israel made weapons.

Europe and the UK are headed for the same fate as Iran in 1979. King Charles is a closet Muslim and for sure no defender of the Christian faith. Anthony Blinken was was in Israel on the 8th of October, telling Israel to go easy on Gaza.

Hitler was not a Christian. Islam was the only religion he respected. The late, persecuted Dietrich Bonhoeffer demonstrated that.

The world hates Israel and the Jews because it hates God. Those Christians who hate Israel and the Jews side with the world.
 
God permitted all this persecution in order to encourage the restoration of the Jewish homeland. Of course, even then the wicked are not satisfied. They complain about Jews in their countries, then complain about Jews in Israel.

Israel has a growing economy and is exporting a great deal to the nations. Publicly, the Europeans condemn Israel. They appease the Muslim population. Can't upset the followers of a mass murdering paedophile, of course. At the same time, European nations are buying Israel made weapons.

Europe and the UK are headed for the same fate as Iran in 1979. King Charles is a closet Muslim and for sure no defender of the Christian faith. Anthony Blinken was was in Israel on the 8th of October, telling Israel to go easy on Gaza.

Hitler was not a Christian. Islam was the only religion he respected. The late, persecuted Dietrich Bonhoeffer demonstrated that.

The world hates Israel and the Jews because it hates God. Those Christians who hate Israel and the Jews side with the world.

Genocide is a legal term.
International courts that have the authority to investigate and define Genocide have found Israel guilty of it.
This is the UN Commission report: https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-rele...itted-genocide-gaza-strip-un-commission-finds

I am guessing by the views that you express that you would put all of that down to "antisemitism".
Can the truth ever be antisemitic?
Perhaps you think that the findings are all un-true, but if they were true how far would it have to go before you found out?
Do you think modern Israel should get special protection to commit genocide?
 
God permitted all this persecution in order to encourage the restoration of the Jewish homeland. Of course, even then the wicked are not satisfied. They complain about Jews in their countries, then complain about Jews in Israel.

Israel has a growing economy and is exporting a great deal to the nations. Publicly, the Europeans condemn Israel. They appease the Muslim population. Can't upset the followers of a mass murdering paedophile, of course. At the same time, European nations are buying Israel made weapons.

Europe and the UK are headed for the same fate as Iran in 1979. King Charles is a closet Muslim and for sure no defender of the Christian faith. Anthony Blinken was was in Israel on the 8th of October, telling Israel to go easy on Gaza.

Hitler was not a Christian. Islam was the only religion he respected. The late, persecuted Dietrich Bonhoeffer demonstrated that.

The world hates Israel and the Jews because it hates God. Those Christians who hate Israel and the Jews side with the world.


Hitler used Christians, the German Christians because they already had a bent toward Antisemitism thanks to some of the founding fathers. One of the Nazi's used Martin Luther's sermons as defense for what they did.
 
Genocide is a legal term.
International courts that have the authority to investigate and define Genocide have found Israel guilty of it.
This is the UN Commission report: https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-rele...itted-genocide-gaza-strip-un-commission-finds

I am guessing by the views that you express that you would put all of that down to "antisemitism".
Can the truth ever be antisemitic?
Perhaps you think that the findings are all un-true, but if they were true how far would it have to go before you found out?
Do you think modern Israel should get special protection to commit genocide?
Would you say God told Moses to use genocide, when He instructed him to kill all the people in places the Israelites invaded, including men, women and children?
 
Bottom line the prophecies found in the Old Testament and New like Matthew, Luke, Thessalonians, Jude, Revelation and such are about the Salvation of Israel during the Great Tribulation. The Bride is gone or not mentioned specifically which is typically everyone else outside the Jews (Gentiles). So clearly the Jews are still Chosen when God designed a way for them to return back and to accept Yeshua as their true Messiah.
 
That's a good reference: So, what is done to branches that do not abide in Christ?

Here is the full reference: “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."

So are you claiming that only non-Jewish branches (I mean, Jesus is talking to an audience that is exclusively Jewish) are thrown into the fire if they are not in Christ? So this was a story told to Jews that has nothing to do with Jews?

“Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: but in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:34-35‬ ‭

“For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭12:13‬ ‭

“Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:12‬ ‭

“how that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; , which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; that the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭3:3, 5-6‬ ‭


“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:

Jacobs descendants being special is not part of the new testament .

“and think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Gods people and Abraham’s children are found here.

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Christian’s are Abraham’s children whether they were a Jew or a gentile by thoer flesh it’s meaningless

only faith in Christ matters now and identifies us to God . An Asian descendant of mau if they hear the gospel and respond in belief , they become a child of Abraham and hiers of the eternal promises of God in Christ Jesus our lord
 
God did judge Israel, first with the destruction of the temple and finally with the destruction of Israel as a nation. As prophesied, once more God scattered His people. However, it is plain from the Book of Revelation that there must be a nation of Israel before the introduction of the millennial reign of Christ. And that is what the replacement people can't/won't get their heads around.

I see you and I differ on the destruction but agree on the further scattering.
Can you tell me why you see the destruction as a judgment? Perhaps I am mis informed on the matter.
 
Would you say God told Moses to use genocide, when He instructed him to kill all the people in places the Israelites invaded, including men, women and children?

By modern post-Geneva standards, yes.
I do not believe God intended to wipe out their DNA, or He would have to wipe out the Israelites too for their close physical relation to them.
The tribes of Canaan were being punished for their iniquity (Genesis 15:16).
Had they converted to any modern form of Judaism it would not have helped them.
Note that later the Israelites were punished in similar way for the same reason.
Such was the Holy land under the old covenant.

Christians who wish to adopt a similar understanding of the holy land in the new covenant may face some of the following dilemmas:

1. God is not pleased to dwell in the earthly temple of Jerusalem anymore (Mathew 27:57), but has His own Heavenly Jerusalem, Hebrews 12:22. Which one do we defend?
2. We are forced to reconcile between two masters (Mathew 6:24), because the "Israel of God" of Galatians 6:16 is still partly living in flesh. How do we maintain loyalty to modern Israel without encountering moral and spiritual conflict of interest?
3. The Spirit of God told us to set our affections on things above not things on the earth, but now that there are two Jerusalems which one do we set our affections on?
4. We carry the message of the Gospel of Christ to those still in unbelief, yet how do we avoid confusing this message when we are burdened with justifying the many questionable activities of modern Israel?
5. The Geneva convention was made with good intent. If the world is led away from those standards by Christians, How then do we "preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!" Romans 10:15