If you ever Crack a bible, you will get owned big time.
Get one and let's go.
You are making that doctrine look silly as you prove it can not be defended without attacking some ghost nothing burger dynamic.
....proving zero.
Pre Trib or Post trib rapture?
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Get one and let's go.
You are making that doctrine look silly as you prove it can not be defended without attacking some ghost nothing burger dynamic.
....proving zero.
We all know he poularized the pretrib rapture doctrine.
No foul.
Look up "popularized " in the dictionary.
What you are unwittingly DECLARING, Is that it PREVIOUSLY EXISTED.
He only popularized it.
You have no clue what you are talking about...and actually getting fodder blown back in your face.
That postrib workbook talking points will make a fool out of you.
The bible reigns.
That is why we own the rapture timing debate.
You are upset. But you have an attitude with the wrong people. If you can't understand scripture, dont get mad at us, we didnt write it, the Lord did.
No
Postrib rapture is a doctrine of omission.
All false doctrine has a few verses twisted into men's thought out scenario's.
Your doctrine takes a position, and reasoning , then omits verses challenging it, and tortures others to fit that doctrine.
Try me out.
Get a bible and defend that doctrine.
That's true right there. I have all my notes and scriptures right next to me. But if he was interested in the truth he wouldnt be talking like he is. I'm not going to argue with this one. He just wants to argue and play arrogant boy.
@Omegatime ;
Your one verse cancels out 10?
Wow think of the possibilities!!!!
You can now, under your methodology, make God's word say whatever you like!!!!
So poor, that line of study.
Your one verse cancels out 10?
Wow think of the possibilities!!!!
You can now, under your methodology, make God's word say whatever you like!!!!
So poor, that line of study.
There's the scripture he asked for! If that dont scream rapture I dunno what does lol.
Hebrews 9:28
28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.
When do you think the revealing of thr antichrist ant the beginning of the great tribulation is?
I'm thinking in the 2030s after the EU's elections in 2029.
So, I read through this thread, mostly just your reading your posts. lol. I'm gonna watch the French movie, the words do go fast.. dang!
Anyways, King Charles, and the Vatican are two, that I have been keeping my eye on, as far as possible candidates for the "anti-christ".
Nobody really knows for sure, but one is head of the English Church, and the other is head of the Catholic Church. Tim Cohen wrote a book on Prince Charles of Wales, it's pretty detailed, and not a lot fluff. And many of the early church fathers have proclaimed, that the seat of the Vatican is the anti-christ.
I have no idea, if the Tribulation has already started, if it will start soon, or it will happen way in the future. Although, I'm a fearful for 2030, it maybe a trying time for sure.
We have wars brewing, we have financial concerns, social unrest boiling over, and political up risings. That is a recipe for concern for sure.
Sometimes I think the Tribulation has already started....
- 1st Trumpet: Hail, fire, and blood are thrown to the earth, burning up a third of the trees and green grass.
- 2nd Trumpet: Something like a great mountain burning with fire is thrown into the sea, turning a third of it to blood and killing a third of all marine life and ships.
- 3rd Trumpet: A great flaming star called Wormwood falls from heaven, making a third of all freshwater bitter and poisonous.
- 4th Trumpet: A third of daylight, moonlight, and starlight is taken away, making days and nights significantly darker.
- 5th Trumpet: Locusts/scorpions are released from the bottomless pit to torture people without God’s seal on their foreheads for five months.
As far as the 1st Trumpet, have noticed an increase in fires. It seems like the world is on fire every year. It has never been this bad.
"Based on those 242 wildfires, the researchers found the number of disastrous wildfires had increased more than fourfold from 1980 to 2023. Nearly half of the fires, 43 percent, were in the last 10 years of the record. Additionally, there were 43 wildfire disasters that cost more than $1 billion in that same period."
Seems like the world is always on fire now, but maybe that's just me.
"global map of average annual area burned (percentage of cell burned) for 1960 to 2000; data from Mouillot and Field (2005)."
As far as the 2nd Trumpet, Fukushima reactors exploded, caused a great explosions, and reports of the Pacific Ocean is dead. Salmon are missing, Alaskan crabs are missing, starfish are missing, and etc. I don't really see a third of ships being destroyed, but maybe it's to early to call. Could be way off. But just sorta saying stuff I guess.
2nd Trumpet: Something like a great mountain burning with fire is thrown into the sea, turning a third of it to blood and killing a third of all marine life and ships.
"Yes, significant fish populations are missing or critically depleted in the Pacific Ocean due to overfishing and environmental changes
. Up to 90% of large predatory fish, such as tuna and sharks, have disappeared from the Pacific since 1950. Key species like Pacific bluefin tuna are reduced by 95%, while many salmon populations have also declined drastically. "
"Salmon populations in the Pacific are facing a crisis due to a "death by a thousand cuts" involving habitat destruction, warming oceans, pollution, and overfishing. Key drivers of the decline include reduced snowpack, high water temperatures, and predation by marine mammals. In California alone, returns have dropped from 5.5 million historically to less than 500,000, leading to major fishery closures and disaster declarations in 2023. "
There is no data for a loss shipping in the Pacific Ocean, neither the see turning to blood, but some speculate the Pacific Ocean is contaminated with radiation. Now if China invades Taiwan and the U.S. responds, maybe the rest can be fulfilled, but I'm just talking right now. This is just some thoughts of possibilities.
"Yes, the Fukushima Daiichi plant is still experiencing ongoing releases of radioactive water, primarily through the controlled discharge of treated water into the Pacific Ocean and smaller, accidental leaks, leading to continued monitoring and management of contaminated groundwater and stored water.While major leaks from the initial 2011 disaster were contained, the process of cooling damaged fuel and managing contaminated site water is a long-term challenge, with Japan releasing treated water since 2023 and addressing smaller incidents regularly."
Let's just say, a war breaks out in the Pacific Ocean, maybe the rest can be fulfilled, or maybe it is fulfilled another way.
So, this is another BIG MAYBE here...If this war breaks out in the Pacific, and other places of the world break out in war, than maybe it goes nuclear, and the third Trumpet can sound in the next 5 years or so to fulfill the water is bitter due to radiation.
"Nuclear bombs severely contaminate freshwater sources with long-lived radioactive fallout—primarily strontium-90, cesium-137, and iodine-131—making water unsafe to consume for years, or even centuries, due to potential groundwater contamination. Surface water (rivers, lakes) is immediately contaminated by fallout, while underground aquifers can remain polluted for decades. "
I finally saw these last year. They were really boring to watch and unrealistic. I don't get why they were so popular!
I finally saw these last year. They were really boring to watch and unrealistic. I don't get why they were so popular!
Kirk Cameron a famous tv star is in it, and it confirms a misguided teaching of the end time?!?!
I remember seeing the first one a ways back, but remember a few times the microphone that was hanged from above, was accidentally filmed and made the final cut. Who ever was the camera man obviously made a mistake, or director. When they edited, they were probably, oh well.
What a sad, sad movie. Cried so many times. La Rafle
So, I know you asked, what did I learn? Better to run or fight, when tyranny is about to put you in a prison camp.
Matthew 24
5 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
So, I know you asked, what did I learn? Better to run or fight, when tyranny is about to put you in a prison camp.
Matthew 24
5 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Wrong again. Every serious bible student rightly understands that Jesus is speaking to the nation Israel in Matthew 24.What a sad, sad movie. Cried so many times. La Rafle
So, I know you asked, what did I learn? Better to run or fight, when tyranny is about to put you in a prison camp.
Matthew 24
5 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
The Church is not addressed, nor will they be present when it all goes down.
Dan 12:1
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people (ISRAEL): and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:11
And from the time that the daily sacrifice (ISRAEL) shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
- holy place (ISRAEL)
- be in Judaea (ISRAEL)
- neither on the sabbath day (ISRAEL)
********************************************************************
The Parable of the Fig Tree that follows is a prophecy of the RETURN OF THE NATION ISRAEL that will be there BEFORE the Great Tribulation occurs. Which BTW, has already happened, exactly 2520 years after the 70 years captivity was over. You do not understand this either? Tragic and shameful!
[Mat 24:32-35 KJV]
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer [is] nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, [even] at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
***********************************************************
Hosea 9:10
“I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the first ripe in the fig tree…”
This explicitly links Israel ↔ fig tree**********************************************************
Jeremiah 24 (the two baskets of figs)
Good figs = faithful remnant
Bad figs = rebellious Israel
This chapter proves:
The fig tree is not just a plant — it is a covenantal symbol of the nation.
******************************************************************
Joel 1:6–7
“…he hath laid my vine waste, and barked my fig tree…”
Vine = blessing
Fig tree = national Israel
When the fig tree is stripped, Israel is under divine discipline***************************************************************************************
The cursed fig tree (Matthew 21)
When Christ curses the fig tree for having leaves but no fruit, this teaches:
Leaves = religious activity
Fruit = faith in Messiah
So:
Israel had Temple ritual, but rejected Christ
Therefore:
The curse represents national Israel being set aside in 70 AD.
****************************************************************************
“When you see the fig tree bud…” (Matthew 24:32)
This explicitly says:
“You are not guessing what the fig tree means. It was already defined by the Old Testament.”
So when Jesus says:“Learn a parable of the fig tree…”
He teaches:
This means when Israel comes back to national life, the Tribulation clock starts.
That is why these passages connect:
- 1948 → rebirth of Israel
- Fig tree budding → end-times countdown
What a sad, sad movie. Cried so many times. La Rafle
So, I know you asked, what did I learn? Better to run or fight, when tyranny is about to put you in a prison camp.
Matthew 24
5 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Those instructions were for anyone, Jew or Gentile, resident or visitor, that are in Judea at the time the antichrist takes over the third Jewish temple.
God will have instructions for each individual child of God everywhere else in the world. We just have to listen to Him.
A good example is Noah. God told him to build an ark according to His specifications. God gave Noah 120 years time to build it and provided the materials. God will do the same for each of us.
Back to the movie. There really is a lot to learn from it. I believe that WWII is a prototype of the last days. What happened to the Jews and other groups of people targeted by the Nazis will also happen to Christians.
One of the many things to learn from the roundup is the cruelty of the oppressors. They really didn't care who they hurt, like that poor pregnant lady who tried to warn the neighborhood that the oppressors were taking children too.
The movie didn't want to be too graphic about the cruelty of the oppressors in WWII, but I've read true accounts that were actually far worse. Some of the concentration camps had guards that were extremely violent convicts. Other guards who were once kind became cruel because they were pressured to do so with terrible consequences if they didn't or became cruel just from being around cruel people.
These true accounts were so difficult to get through reading them because of their cruelty that I had to take break in between each account.
This is one of the reasons that drive me to encourage Christians to build their faith to endure in Christ. These accounts are so terrible already, but Jesus said what happens in the GT is going to be far worse. I think I'll list some of the books people can read about it in some future post. It might motivate Christians to prepare.
Another thing that impacted me from the movie was that execution - putting someone to death - might not be immediate. But the Bible says that people who refuse the mark of the beast will be beheaded.
Some people say that the anitchrist will be muslim because of this, but I think a lot of people don't know that the Nazis actually beheaded people too. So the antichrist is from the EU. Beheading is the punishment reserved only for those who are deemed traitors of the government, and in this case, if the one-world government system sees the Christian refuse the mark of the beast, that Christians is a traitor to the antichrist.
That's enough for now from me. Please let me know your other thoughts about what the movie or what to expect in the great tribulation!
So, I read through this thread, mostly just your reading your posts. lol. I'm gonna watch the French movie, the words do go fast.. dang!
Anyways, King Charles, and the Vatican are two, that I have been keeping my eye on, as far as possible candidates for the "anti-christ".
Nobody really knows for sure, but one is head of the English Church, and the other is head of the Catholic Church. Tim Cohen wrote a book on Prince Charles of Wales, it's pretty detailed, and not a lot fluff. And many of the early church fathers have proclaimed, that the seat of the Vatican is the anti-christ.
I have no idea, if the Tribulation has already started, if it will start soon, or it will happen way in the future. Although, I'm a fearful for 2030, it maybe a trying time for sure.
We have wars brewing, we have financial concerns, social unrest boiling over, and political up risings. That is a recipe for concern for sure.
Sometimes I think the Tribulation has already started....
So, this is just me thinking right now...Like possibilities...I don't know for sure, just saying type stuff..
- 1st Trumpet: Hail, fire, and blood are thrown to the earth, burning up a third of the trees and green grass.
- 2nd Trumpet: Something like a great mountain burning with fire is thrown into the sea, turning a third of it to blood and killing a third of all marine life and ships.
- 3rd Trumpet: A great flaming star called Wormwood falls from heaven, making a third of all freshwater bitter and poisonous.
- 4th Trumpet: A third of daylight, moonlight, and starlight is taken away, making days and nights significantly darker.
- 5th Trumpet: Locusts/scorpions are released from the bottomless pit to torture people without God’s seal on their foreheads for five months.
As far as the 1st Trumpet, have noticed an increase in fires. It seems like the world is on fire every year. It has never been this bad.
"Based on those 242 wildfires, the researchers found the number of disastrous wildfires had increased more than fourfold from 1980 to 2023. Nearly half of the fires, 43 percent, were in the last 10 years of the record. Additionally, there were 43 wildfire disasters that cost more than $1 billion in that same period."
Seems like the world is always on fire now, but maybe that's just me.
"global map of average annual area burned (percentage of cell burned) for 1960 to 2000; data from Mouillot and Field (2005)."
As far as the 2nd Trumpet, Fukushima reactors exploded, caused a great explosions, and reports of the Pacific Ocean is dead. Salmon are missing, Alaskan crabs are missing, starfish are missing, and etc. I don't really see a third of ships being destroyed, but maybe it's to early to call. Could be way off. But just sorta saying stuff I guess.
View attachment 285440
2nd Trumpet: Something like a great mountain burning with fire is thrown into the sea, turning a third of it to blood and killing a third of all marine life and ships.
"Yes, significant fish populations are missing or critically depleted in the Pacific Ocean due to overfishing and environmental changes
. Up to 90% of large predatory fish, such as tuna and sharks, have disappeared from the Pacific since 1950. Key species like Pacific bluefin tuna are reduced by 95%, while many salmon populations have also declined drastically. "
"Salmon populations in the Pacific are facing a crisis due to a "death by a thousand cuts" involving habitat destruction, warming oceans, pollution, and overfishing. Key drivers of the decline include reduced snowpack, high water temperatures, and predation by marine mammals. In California alone, returns have dropped from 5.5 million historically to less than 500,000, leading to major fishery closures and disaster declarations in 2023. "
There is no data for a loss shipping in the Pacific Ocean, neither the see turning to blood, but some speculate the Pacific Ocean is contaminated with radiation. Now if China invades Taiwan and the U.S. responds, maybe the rest can be fulfilled, but I'm just talking right now. This is just some thoughts of possibilities.
"Yes, the Fukushima Daiichi plant is still experiencing ongoing releases of radioactive water, primarily through the controlled discharge of treated water into the Pacific Ocean and smaller, accidental leaks, leading to continued monitoring and management of contaminated groundwater and stored water.While major leaks from the initial 2011 disaster were contained, the process of cooling damaged fuel and managing contaminated site water is a long-term challenge, with Japan releasing treated water since 2023 and addressing smaller incidents regularly."
Let's just say, a war breaks out in the Pacific Ocean, maybe the rest can be fulfilled, or maybe it is fulfilled another way.
So, this is another BIG MAYBE here...If this war breaks out in the Pacific, and other places of the world break out in war, than maybe it goes nuclear, and the third Trumpet can sound in the next 5 years or so to fulfill the water is bitter due to radiation.
"Nuclear bombs severely contaminate freshwater sources with long-lived radioactive fallout—primarily strontium-90, cesium-137, and iodine-131—making water unsafe to consume for years, or even centuries, due to potential groundwater contamination. Surface water (rivers, lakes) is immediately contaminated by fallout, while underground aquifers can remain polluted for decades. "
I would take a guess that the Harlot is the Vatican.
The Harlot rides the first beast.
The first beast would be the man of lawlessness.
Not sure whom the second beast (false prophet) would be.
But the Harlot sits on seven hills.
Revelation 17:9
Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits.
Rome sits on seven hills.
Rome might be the headquarter, but as I said, this false religioys system goes far beyond the tiny Vatican.
I will give AI a crack at the literal text (Revelation 17,18).
Scripture only.
The “great city” defined
“The woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.”
(Revelation 17:18)
(Revelation 17:18)
“All nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her.”
(Revelation 18:3)
(Revelation 18:3)
Immense wealth and sea trade
“The merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury.”
(Revelation 18:3)
(Revelation 18:3)
“The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her, for no one buys their merchandise anymore.”
(Revelation 18:11)
(Revelation 18:11)
“Every shipmaster, all who travel by ship, sailors, and as many as trade on the sea, stood at a distance.”
(Revelation 18:17)
(Revelation 18:17)
“For in one hour such great riches came to nothing.”
(Revelation 18:17)
(Revelation 18:17)
“What city is like this great city!”
(Revelation 18:18)
(Revelation 18:18)
List of luxury goods
“Merchandise of gold and silver, precious stones and pearls, fine linen and purple, silk and scarlet… wine and oil… bodies and souls of men.”
(Revelation 18:12–13)
(Revelation 18:12–13)
Geographical implication
“Standing at a distance for fear of her torment.”
(Revelation 18:15)
(Revelation 18:15)
“They threw dust on their heads and cried out… as many as had ships on the sea became rich by her wealth.”
(Revelation 18:19)
(Revelation 18:19)
Political dominion
“The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.”
(Revelation 17:9)
(Revelation 17:9)
“And the ten horns… are ten kings.”
(Revelation 17:12)
(Revelation 17:12)
“She reigns over the kings of the earth.”
(Revelation 17:18)
(Revelation 17:18)
Chronological note
“Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great.”
(Revelation 18:2)
(Revelation 18:2)
“In one hour her judgment has come.”
(Revelation 18:10)
(Revelation 18:10)
Jerusalem contrasted by Scripture
“Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles.”
(Luke 21:24)
(Luke 21:24)
“Your house is left to you desolate.”
(Matthew 23:38)
(Matthew 23:38)
Blood guilt
“In her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth.”
(Revelation 18:24)
(Revelation 18:24)
Summary from Scripture
- The great city rules the kings of the earth (Rev 17:18).
- She is a global commercial power, enriched by sea trade, ships, merchants, and luxury goods (Rev 18:3, 11–19).
- Her destruction is sudden and witnessed by maritime traders (Rev 18:17–19).
- She sits on seven mountains and exercises imperial authority (Rev 17:9, 18).
- Jerusalem is shown elsewhere as trampled, desolate, and judged, not reigning over kings nor enriching sea merchants (Luke 21:24; Matt 23:38).
By the scriptural markers alone—imperial rule, seven mountains, worldwide commerce, maritime wealth, dominance over kings—the description fits imperial Babylon/Rome, not an inland, destroyed Jerusalem.