Essential Christian Doctrines

[Toknow]

Yes, here is how I describe what you are saying:

The normative way of stating the kerygma/GRFS in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in Acts 16:31, 2Cor. 4:5 & Col. 2:6).
The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in this statement can be explained or elaborated as follows:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or Creator God (Deut. 6:4, John 3:16, 2Thes. 1:6), who loves sinful humanity (Rom. 5:6-8, John 3:16) and who is both able (2Tim. 1:12) and willing (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (Rom. 3:23, 2Tim. 3:2-4, Col. 3:5), miserable (Gal. 5:19-21), and hopeless (Eph. 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (Matt. 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (John 3:18, Rom. 2:5-11).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (John 3:16, Acts 16:30-31, Phil. 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (Rom. 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1Cor. 15:14-28).
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s grace or justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (Luke 2:11, John 14:6, Acts 16:31), at which moment God’s loving Holy Spirit of Christ indwells/baptizes the believer into the church (Rev. 3:20, Rom. 5:5, 1Cor. 12:13).
5. Loving Christ Jesus as Lord (Luke 2:11), God the Son (Matt. 16:16) or God in the human dimension (Col. 2:9) means reflecting divine love as empowered by the Holy Spirit, thereby obeying His command to love one another (Matt. 7:21, 22:37-40, John 13:35, Rom. 13:9)—forever (Matt. 10:22, Psa. 113:2), which will eventually achieve spiritual maturity on earth and heaven after Christ returns at God’s resurrection (John 14:6, 17&26, Rom. 8:6-17, Gal. 6:7-9, Eph. 1:13-14, Phil. 3:12-16, Heb. 10:36, 12:1, Jam. 1:2-4).

You're stating salvation economy.

The OP is discussing the definition of the CHRSITIAN RELIGION.

 

[GWH]

Your appealing to the solution of evil.

But,,,evil had not entered into the Garden yet.
Evil did not enter until Adam ate the fruit.

No sin nature existed yet...
so WHAT made Adam eat?
( or Eve for that matter).

Yes, I am explaining why evil exists, if God created all things: God chose to create humanity in His image,
meaning with moral freedom or the possibility of choosing good or evil, which makes humans different from
objects that obey the laws of physics, animals that obey the drives of instinct and robots that are programmed.

Satan apparently was the first creature to make evil actual, so evil entered Eden when he did.
(I had not thought of it that way until just now, so thanks for stimulating that insight.)
Then A&E exercised MFW to make evil actual among humans when they ignored GW and believed Satan's lie,
which was signified by eating the forbidden fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

A&E were created good, and Jesus was human, so sin is not natural but rather a perversion/corruption of nature.
IOW, A&E made themselves eat or chose to sin (corrupt God's nature) by not questioning God about the devil's claim.

Just replying to the questions you posed/posted: "Then, yes, how did Adam and Eve sin?
What made them sin? If we check, we'll find that threre is no answer to this dilemma."

Over...

 

[memberofthebride]

It's been 6 years since this was a topic, and there has been some discussion on other threads recently, so a new thread seems to make sense. What are the ESSENTIAL Christian doctrines? These are doctrines that divide us from other quasi-Christian religions (e.g. LDS, JW, etc.). I'll start things off with an edited list of Statement of Beliefs from my church on the essentials:

God
God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe. He has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God.
Biblical References: Genesis 1:1, 26–27, 3:22; Psalm 90:2; Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14; 1 Peter 1:2

Jesus
Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is co-equal with the Father. Jesus lived a sinless human life and offered himself as the perfect sacrifice by dying on the cross. He arose from the dead after three days to demonstrate His power over sin and death. He ascended to Heaven’s glory and will return again someday to claim His own and take them to that same Heaven.
‍Biblical References: Isaiah 9:6; Matthew 1:22–23; John 1:1–5; 14:10–30; Acts 1:9–11; Romans 1:3–4; 1 Corinthians 15:3,4; 1 Timothy 6:14–15; Titus 2:13; Hebrew 4:14–15

Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit is co-equal with the Father and the Son. He is present in the world to make men aware of their need for Jesus Christ. He also lives in every Christian from the moment of salvation. He is our intercessor and provides the Christian with power for living, understanding of spiritual truth, and guidance in doing what is right.
‍Biblical References: John 14:16, 16:7–14, 17; Acts 1:8; Romans 8:26–27; 1 Corinthians 2:12, 3:16; 2 Corinthians 3:16–17; Galatians 5:25; Ephesians 1:13; 5:18

The Bible
The Bible is God’s Word to us. Human authors, under the supernatural guidance of the Holy Spirit, wrote it. It is the supreme source of truth for Christian beliefs and living. Because it is God inspired, it is the truth without any mixture or error.
‍Biblical References: Psalm 119:105, 160; Proverbs 30:5–6; Matthew 5:18; 2 Timothy 3:16–17; 1 Peter 1:25; 2 Peter 1:20–21, 3:15–16

Eternity
People were created to exist forever. We will either exist eternally separated from God by sin, or eternally with God through forgiveness and salvation. To be eternally separated from God is Hell. To be eternally in union with him is eternal life. Heaven and Hell are real places of eternal existence.
‍Biblical References: John 3:16; 14:17; Romans 6:23; 8:17–18; 1 Corinthians 2:7–9; Revelation 20:15

This should be a good starting point. Feel free to agree, disagree, modify, add, etc.

comment

"""take them to that same Heaven.""

I have been looking for those scriptures for almost 60 years.
I found many that say our promise is eternal life but never that humans are going to live in the 3rd heaven.
please point then out.
and also what we would be doing in heaven, I am not the "sit around kind of Guy," I must be doing!

there must be scripture explaining what there is to do in heaven?

 

[TruthDefender]

No it's not as I just explained. Karma is one of the most evil ideas ever created. That you liken it to biblical concepts is telling.

This is an example of worldly ideas/ thinking seeping into the church.

A little leaven leavens the whole lump.

 

[TruthDefender]

Yes, I am explaining why evil exists, if God created all things: God chose to create humanity in His image,
meaning with moral freedom or the possibility of choosing good or evil, which makes humans different from
objects that obey the laws of physics, animals that obey the drives of instinct and robots that are programmed.

Satan apparently was the first creature to make evil actual, so evil entered Eden when he did.
(I had not thought of it that way until just now, so thanks for stimulating that insight.)
Then A&E exercised MFW to make evil actual among humans when they ignored GW and believed Satan's lie,
which was signified by eating the forbidden fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

A&E were created good, and Jesus was human, so sin is not natural but rather a perversion/corruption of nature.
IOW, A&E made themselves eat or chose to sin (corrupt God's nature) by not questioning God about the devil's claim.

Just replying to the questions you posed/posted: "Then, yes, how did Adam and Eve sin?
What made them sin? If we check, we'll find that threre is no answer to this dilemma."

Over...

Jesus was more than just flesh and blood. He was/ is God.

Imagination is great… perhaps fictional, not biblical. I believe these discussions pertain to Scripture and not in fictional imagination.

 

[TruthDefender]

Satan entered the world to deceive people. Through this deception and lie, via the cunning serpent, he told Eve that she would not die and would be like God knowing good and evil.

 

[TruthDefender]

We are given the ability to think/reason and enough information to be able to figure out this very important point that is a stumbling-block to belief in the NT God for some people: reconciling God’s power and love with the fact of evil and its consequence. A person—even a theist—might think that God would not permit evil, suffering and hell to exist.

People who are mystified by evil and repulsed by its punishment do not realize that the essential aspect of being a human rather than a robot or subhuman creature is moral free will (MFW), which is what enables a person to experience love and meaning. This is what makes humans different from animals, whose behavior is governed mainly by instinct. This is what it means to be created in God’s image (Gen. 1:26-27). God could not force people to return His love without abrogating their humanity. If God were to zap ungodly souls, it would be tantamount to forcing conversions at gunpoint, which would not be free and genuine. If God were to prevent people from behaving hatefully, then He would need to prevent them from thinking evilly, which would make human souls programmed automatons.

MFW only exists when there is the possibility of choosing between two qualitatively opposite moral options that we call good and evil. These options are opposites because of essentially different consequences for choosing them. Choosing good results in blessing, life and heaven; and choosing evil results in cursing, death and hell (Deut. 30:19). This is why hell as well as heaven exists. It is the just consequence for choosing evil rather than God. The Spirit of God is good: love, peace and joy (Gal. 5:22-23). Therefore, whoever rejects the Lord is spiritually separated from Him (Isa. 59:2) and thereby chooses the evil or satanic spirit of hatred, strife and misery and reaps the just consequence called “hell” in the afterlife (Gal. 6:7-9, Heb. 9:27-28). These options were presented by Moses to the Israelites (DT 30:19), and Jesus referred to this fundamental choice in terms of a fish or egg versus a snake or scorpion (Luke 11:11-13, cf. Gen. 3:24, Rev. 22:1-2).

God created theoretical evil or the possibility of rejecting Him as an option that actualizes MFW/free human personality. As such it is necessary and even good (Gen. 1:31). Of course, it was wrong for Satan (1John 3:8) and humanity (Rom. 5:12) to make evil actual by choosing to Sin or reject Faith in God’s Lordship. The first people to choose the evil option were named Adam and Eve (Gen. 3:6). The first sin was ignoring GW.

Evil people grieve God and punish/torture themselves by experiencing delayed karma/reaping the just consequence for sins, just as those who experience appropriate justice during this earthly existence also punish themselves or reap what they have sown and send themselves to jail. This view makes souls responsible for breaking the rules rather than blaming evil on the judges (or Judge) who enforce the rules.

The purpose of earthly punishment is to promote repentance, but the reason for retribution in hell is to attain justice. It is difficult to imagine, but somehow even someone as evil as Hitler will receive perfect justice, perhaps experiencing the agony of the millions of deaths he caused in accordance with the principal of “eye for eye” (MT 5:38), after which their souls are destroyed forever (per John 17:12, Rom. 9:22, Gal. 6:8, Phil. 3:19, 2Thes. 1:9, 2Pet. 3:7 & Rev. 20:13-14).

Yes He gave us free will.
Idk why you insist on using a heathen, idolistic term? It’s very offensive!

 

[NightTwister]

Free Will

Can we please not turn this into a "free vs limited will" thread? That's not the intent here. There are lots of other threads on that topic.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Can we please not turn this into a "free vs limited will" thread? That's not the intent here. There are lots of other threads on that topic.

Just think of how much fun it would be to argue for 40,000 posts about it.

Anyways back to essential Christian doctrine. I prefer to keep it simple. I say the most essential is to Love Christ and all else will follow. Faith, respect, trust, and obedience will come from that love.

 

[TruthDefender]

Karma means reaping what one sows per Rom. 2:5-11, which is in the Bible last time I checked.

You’re using a heathen term, it’s used by Hindus. It’s not biblical!

 

[TruthDefender]

Hi TruthDefender
I think you have a good point if I've understood you correctly...

The question would be:
If the fruit was not eaten yet...
and the sin nature did not exist yet...

Then, yes, how did Adam and Eve sin?
What made them sin?

If we check, we'll find that threre is no answer to this dilemma.


Hope this posts right - new here, and I don't see any dilineation between what YOU posted and what I posted).

Through deception and the cunning lies of the serpent (Satan). Eve believed that she would not die and would be like God, if she ate.

 

[BillyBob]

The question would be:
If the fruit was not eaten yet...
and the sin nature did not exist yet...

Then, yes, how did Adam and Eve sin?
What made them sin?

If we check, we'll find that threre is no answer to this dilemma.

Taken from G I Williamson – WCF study guide Liberty vs Ability
It is all too common to bring accusations against the Reformed Faith that it denies “free will”. Many reject the Reformed Faith out of hand because they assume that divine sovereignty [of which predestination is but one aspect] cancels all true human liberty and responsibility. Yet, ironically, no other system of teaching safeguards true human liberty and responsibility as does the Reformed Faith.
But in order to grasp this fact we must carefully note what freedom of the will is and what it is not. By free will we mean that man's will is not coerced. We mean that man is not forced by some external force greater than himself to do something he does not want to do. We mean that man is free to do what he wants to do within the limits of his ability. What else can freedom or liberty be than to do as we please? However, we must carefully note that liberty is not identical with ability. Confusion of these distinct things accounts for much false thinking on the subject of free will. Many people really mean ability when the say liberty. They speak of man being free to do good or evil when they really mean to say that men are able to to good or evil. In this they seriously err. For the Bible clearly and consistently teaches (1) man is free to do good or evil, that he is at liberty to do either, but (2) that he is able to do only evil because of his fallen condition [Duet 30:19, John 6:44, etc.] The will is a faculty of man's soul. It cannot escape the moral character out of which it comes. If the soul is entirely corrupt so that its knowledge and desire are defective and rotten, it follows that it will ever will to do that which is evil. Thus absolute liberty exists even though there is total inability to do good.
Before the fall man was at liberty to do either good or evil and was able to do either. After the fall he remained free to do either good or evil, but was able to to do only evil. Now “every imagination of the thoughts of his heart are only evil” (Gen 6:5). He is able to do good only as he is regenerated in order that he may again possess the good heart and will and to do God’s good pleasure (Eph 2:1, John 3:3, Phil 2:13).
Yet his ability is not identical with that which Adam originally had. The regenerate man is not yet able to do God's will perfectly. He does truly delight in the will of God. He does persist in the way of righteousness. Sin cannot prevail in him as it formally did. But sin is present with him (Rom 7:21). The reason for this is that we are in the process of being made holy.

 

[Toknow]

Yes, I am explaining why evil exists, if God created all things: God chose to create humanity in His image,
meaning with moral freedom or the possibility of choosing good or evil, which makes humans different from
objects that obey the laws of physics, animals that obey the drives of instinct and robots that are programmed.

Satan apparently was the first creature to make evil actual, so evil entered Eden when he did.
(I had not thought of it that way until just now, so thanks for stimulating that insight.)
Then A&E exercised MFW to make evil actual among humans when they ignored GW and believed Satan's lie,
which was signified by eating the forbidden fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

A&E were created good, and Jesus was human, so sin is not natural but rather a perversion/corruption of nature.
IOW, A&E made themselves eat or chose to sin (corrupt God's nature) by not questioning God about the devil's claim.

Just replying to the questions you posed/posted: "Then, yes, how did Adam and Eve sin?
What made them sin? If we check, we'll find that threre is no answer to this dilemma."

Over...

GWH
This is an answerable question.
You say that satan brought evil into the world.
Same questions apply.
Where did satan get evil from?
The reformed blame God for creating evil.
Since we know that this is not possible...
we're left with a mystery.

 

[NightTwister]

The reformed blame God for creating evil.

Ummm, no we don't.

 

[GWH]

Yes He gave us free will.
Idk why you insist on using a heathen, idolistic term? It’s very offensive!

Idkwyio not seeing that I defined the term karma with the biblical meaning:
"/reaping the just consequence for sins" so you would be happy and offended no longer.

 

[GWH]

You’re using a heathen term, it’s used by Hindus. It’s not biblical!

Paul used the definition, so I redeemed the term.
Will you not agree that doing so can be used as a point of witnessing to Hindus (cf. Acts 17:22-31)?

 

[NightTwister]

Paul used the definition, so I redeemed the term.
Will you not agree that doing so can be used as a point of witnessing to Hindus (cf. Acts 17:22-31)?

There is no understanding of forgiveness in the Hindu doctrine of karma. It is most certainly not the same thing and that doctrine is used for some horribly evil things.

 

[Toknow]

Through deception and the cunning lies of the serpent (Satan). Eve believed that she would not die and would be like God, if she ate.

Of course.
But if it's the sin nature that makes one sin....
how did Adam sin if the sin nature did not exist yet?

There is no answer TruthDefender.

 

[Toknow]

Taken from G I Williamson – WCF study guide Liberty vs Ability
It is all too common to bring accusations against the Reformed Faith that it denies “free will”.

BB....looks like you're reformed. We'll see.
The reformed faith DOES deny man's free will.
And you have free will in quotation marks.
Which kind of proves it.

Many reject the Reformed Faith out of hand because they assume that divine sovereignty [of which predestination is but one aspect] cancels all true human liberty and responsibility. Yet, ironically, no other system of teaching safeguards true human liberty and responsibility as does the Reformed Faith.

I don't reject anything out of hand.
The reformed/calvinist faith is not biblical...
no other denomination agrees with it.
The early chuch didn't even have an idea about man NOT having free will.
The church has always taught that man has free will.
But let's continue.

But in order to grasp this fact we must carefully note what freedom of the will is and what it is not. By free will we mean that man's will is not coerced. We mean that man is not forced by some external force greater than himself to do something he does not want to do. We mean that man is free to do what he wants to do within the limits of his ability. What else can freedom or liberty be than to do as we please? However, we must carefully note that liberty is not identical with ability. Confusion of these distinct things accounts for much false thinking on the subject of free will. Many people really mean ability when the say liberty.

I was Ok in the beginning but then it sounds a llittle to philosophical instead of theological.
I may be wrong.

Let's define free will this way:
FREE WILL IS THE ABILITY TO CHOOSE BETWEEN TWO MORAL ALTERNATIVES.

And you're going the way of God changing our heart...
but let's continue.

They speak of man being free to do good or evil when they really mean to say that men are able to to good or evil. In this they seriously err. For the Bible clearly and consistently teaches (1) man is free to do good or evil, that he is at liberty to do either, but (2) that he is able to do only evil because of his fallen condition [Duet 30:19, John 6:44, etc.]

So we have gotten there.

You're speaking about total depravity which means that man is UNABLE to do good.
A problem with speaking to Calvinists is that they end up all over the place.
Know why?
Because each of the 5 points of calvinism brings to the next one and it's almost impossible to have a good conversation.

But I'm willing to give it a go.

The will is a faculty of man's soul. It cannot escape the moral character out of which it comes. If the soul is entirely corrupt so that its knowledge and desire are defective and rotten, it follows that it will ever will to do that which is evil. Thus absolute liberty exists even though there is total inability to do good.

Actually Total Depravity does not mean that man does evil all the time.
It means that man is UNABLE to seek God.
I could prove this wrong in one minute....
but see...I was right about your post being all over the map.

Before the fall man was at liberty to do either good or evil and was able to do either. After the fall he remained free to do either good or evil, but was able to to do only evil. Now “every imagination of the thoughts of his heart are only evil” (Gen 6:5). He is able to do good only as he is regenerated in order that he may again possess the good heart and will and to do God’s good pleasure (Eph 2:1, John 3:3, Phil 2:13).

Sounds good but you're going to have to find out what Total Depravity means.
You saying what I mentioned at the beginning of this post.
That is that we do good because God gave us a new heart.

And so we can now do what God would want us to do.

Alas, this is compatibilist free will...which does not exist in the bible.

If God forces us to do His will for His pleasure...
then we must also blame God when we sin.

The Westminster Confession of Faith does state, in chapter 3, that God causes everything to occur.

Yet his ability is not identical with that which Adam originally had. The regenerate man is not yet able to do God's will perfectly. He does truly delight in the will of God. He does persist in the way of righteousness. Sin cannot prevail in him as it formally did. But sin is present with him (Rom 7:21). The reason for this is that we are in the process of being made holy.

You got that right!

 

[TruthDefender]

Taken from G I Williamson – WCF study guide Liberty vs Ability
It is all too common to bring accusations against the Reformed Faith that it denies “free will”. Many reject the Reformed Faith out of hand because they assume that divine sovereignty [of which predestination is but one aspect] cancels all true human liberty and responsibility. Yet, ironically, no other system of teaching safeguards true human liberty and responsibility as does the Reformed Faith.
But in order to grasp this fact we must carefully note what freedom of the will is and what it is not. By free will we mean that man's will is not coerced. We mean that man is not forced by some external force greater than himself to do something he does not want to do. We mean that man is free to do what he wants to do within the limits of his ability. What else can freedom or liberty be than to do as we please? However, we must carefully note that liberty is not identical with ability. Confusion of these distinct things accounts for much false thinking on the subject of free will. Many people really mean ability when the say liberty. They speak of man being free to do good or evil when they really mean to say that men are able to to good or evil. In this they seriously err. For the Bible clearly and consistently teaches (1) man is free to do good or evil, that he is at liberty to do either, but (2) that he is able to do only evil because of his fallen condition [Duet 30:19, John 6:44, etc.] The will is a faculty of man's soul. It cannot escape the moral character out of which it comes. If the soul is entirely corrupt so that its knowledge and desire are defective and rotten, it follows that it will ever will to do that which is evil. Thus absolute liberty exists even though there is total inability to do good.
Before the fall man was at liberty to do either good or evil and was able to do either. After the fall he remained free to do either good or evil, but was able to to do only evil. Now “every imagination of the thoughts of his heart are only evil” (Gen 6:5). He is able to do good only as he is regenerated in order that he may again possess the good heart and will and to do God’s good pleasure (Eph 2:1, John 3:3, Phil 2:13).
Yet his ability is not identical with that which Adam originally had. The regenerate man is not yet able to do God's will perfectly. He does truly delight in the will of God. He does persist in the way of righteousness. Sin cannot prevail in him as it formally did. But sin is present with him (Rom 7:21). The reason for this is that we are in the process of being made holy.

We are made whole through Jesus.