Pre Trib or Post trib rapture?

[kinda]

No you really don't. God has sent you a strong delusion because you don't have love for God's truth.

You already know what the post-trib scriptures are but you have rejected them. How can God work with your hard heart to accept them?


️

I first thought this was a bit harsh, but after responding to what he said, I'm gonna have to agree. He is just literally parroting, what his pastor told him. This to me is scary.

People need to question what their pastors say, and not just blindly believe it. Pastors can and do make mistakes, even with scripture interpretation.

 

[Clayman]

Why would he describe the tribulation, then his coming after the tribulation and then another coming which allegedly took place beforehand without saying "But what I tell you next actually came beforehand." It doesn't make sense from the order in the sermon, unless he wanted to be deceptive towards his disciples.

I'm used to reading the bible with things not in chronological order, so I didn't really take stock of the fact, To me He's answering the disciples question about when and what will be the signs of His coming at the end of the age, So He answers that first, then He adds another element, the element without the signs of Him coming for His bride to take her back home.

From Matth 24:
But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Now from the fig tree learn her parable: when her branch is now become tender, and putteth forth its leaves, ye know that the summer is nigh;
even so ye also, when ye see all these things, know ye that he is nigh, even at the doors.
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished.
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
But of that day and hour knoweth no one, not even the angels of heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only.
And as were the days of Noah, so shall be the coming of the Son of man.

Where is the change of topic?

To me the change of topic is when the Lord declared of that day and hour knoweth no one, not the angels not the Son, but the father only. Of course Jesus is God, He knows exactly the day and the hour, He knew before our creation, so whats He meaning? To me He's now talking about something thats not His plan to fully reveal to us here in person.

So He's explained to the disciples what will be seen(signs) so they will know the timing of when the Lord will return to earth at the end of the age in His second coming, To now a coming that is not seen or known.

He announces the coming of the Son of Man and then he says the coming will be like and proceeds to describe the thing people call rapture.

Thats how I read it :shrug:

It like: Here's A and now I give you a parable for A.
There's no indication, that the following lies in the past in relation to what was said beforehand.

To me, (A)They will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, he who endures to the end will be saved and (B) For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and given in marriage, they did not know until the flood came and took them away, so also will the Coming of the Son of Man be. Are total contrasts, one describes the second coming at the end of the trouble, one describes unawareness as in before the trouble.

Now concerning, that we cannot know the time of the coming, I agree with you. Jesus Christ himself said it.

I think you do know the timing of His return, if I said to you the Lord will return to earth at His second coming in five years from now! You know that's not true for you could point out to me there has to be at least 7 years of tribulation first, so Im wrong.
If you say to me the Lord is coming for his bride and the rapture is going to happen in five years from now, Ill be like I dont know the day or the hour you could be right (ignoring the fact you cant know to date set) Im just saying we are told no one knows the day or the hour of that coming, so if its the same day as His return to earth then that would then make the Lords explanation skewed whiff to me.

 

[cv5]

You do know the scripture calls it a mystery....?

1 Corinthians 15:51-52

51 Behold, I tell you a [a]mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
This is all distraction technique. No where in your Bible quotes contradicts my post, or proves pre tribulation rapture. Not unless you count for your misguided interpretation. Repeat after me, the Church is mentioned passed Revelation 4, and no mention of pre tribulation rapture any where...


Your verse Revelation 3:10 is from a letter written to the Church of Philadelphia.. And? Could you tell me where it mentions this pre tribulation rapture? So, your reading into it? Do you live in Turkey? Please explain.

The Church is never mentioned after Revelation Chapter 4? Say what? Have you read the book of Revelations? Seriously. Have you? I know you just typed that out, because that's what you heard your pastor say, or heard it on the radio, there is no way you thought of that yourself. I heard that many times from pastors going on and on about pretribulation rapture. Once again, pastors who goto seminary are taught this I'm sure...

I dare you to goto your church, and have your pastor plainly explain the pretribulation rapture in scripture. I have when I went to Calvary Chapel, the pastor couldn't, and eventually said, it will all pan out. Like never mind, it's just what we tell the church, don't question it, because we can't back it up.

Have you read Revelation 7? Please read that chapter and tell me, the church is not mentioned there.. Please... Just read it. And then call in on the radio program, and ask them to explain why Revelation 7 doesn't mentioned the church. That will be hilarious.

Revelation 7:13-14

13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”

14 And I said to him, [a]“Sir, you know.”

So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.



So, your telling me, those who came out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb, is not the church????

Have you read the book of Revelations??? Seriously, have you? Honestly. I admit I have a hard time understanding Revelations, but I won't dare just blindly quote pastors in their interpretation of Revelation. I heard many people preach on it, but let's just say, I'm not sure who is right.... I can attest that I read it...




Your verse Revelation 3:10 is from a letter written to the Church of Philadelphia.. And? Could you tell me where it mentions this pre tribulation rapture? So, your reading into it? Do you live in Turkey? Please explain.

Bro!

Sorry, this is why I don't like discussing this topic. People just parrot what they hear from their pastors, and haven't actually looked at it themselves. Your the one who claims to have been studying this topic for 25 years?

Beg my pardon brother, but let's not carried away. I would encourage you to understand both view points and see which is actually Biblical.. Like read the Bible yourself and search for truth..

Yea, you know, I pretty well have a very firm handle on the pre-trib rapture. Frankly, the confusion always ends up being a matter of shocking and embarrassing Biblical illiteracy on the part of the deniers. And mostly of the OT types, patterns, encoded fractal shards of the greater and epic Biblical truth.

I can only hope that you actually ready the OT passages that I have posted and recognize that the OT does, and MUST, validate and confirm the NT principle of the pre-trib rapture.

Oh and before I forget, the Church per se is NEVER MENTIONED beyond Revelation Chapter 4 verse 1....

Rev 4:1
After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Hereafter what exactly? After the CHURCH AGE so noted in chapters 2 and 3.......

 

[Edward429451]

Let me ask you post tribbers a question here.

Does Jesus have a sense of humor?

 

[Clayman]

Sorry pretribulation rapture is a fraud and by the responses, it further reinforces the point. It's so silly....

Yes, well, at least I do. The mystery will be revealed on the Last Trumpet/7th Trumpet in Revelation/1 Corinthians 15:51-52. How could there be any question. I wrote a very detail, piece by piece explanation. Broke it down in a very simple format, constantly repeating the points, and drawing a valid conclusion, but still asked what I meant. lol

Im not trying to be facetious, Im trying to work out from where your coming from before I can agree or disagree, Im wanting to know if you have the bowl judgments following the the 7th trumpet or if they run simultaneous? some people have the bowl judgments in the seventh trumpet and end up having a mid trib rapture, do you have a Messianic kingdom (trumpetless that follows)

By logical definition if there is a last trump, then there has to be a first trump? Do you see all 7 trumpets of Revelation as part and parcel of the rapture calling?

By the way, I'm proud of my original post in this thread, I think I did the topic justice, but I surely can't take credit of this master piece. It was inspired by many Bible teachers, and especially Monte Judah, who I learned a great deal from. Give credit where credit is due.. Anyways, I truly hope this post can an open an eye or two of the false doctrine of this pretribulation rapture.

I dont think we should put stock in people, why not just read the bible for ourselves to see what we believe, I just googled Monte Judah, part of the hebrew roots movement he declared God told him the tribulation had started a few decades ago, woops!

So, if the pretribulation happens on the last trump, then aren't there other trumpet blast after this pretrend pretribulation rapture? So it wouldn't be the last trumpet, now would it?

To be honest it makes zero sense to me, its like trying to tell me when the angel sounds the first trumpet we know its the first trumpet so therefore we must conclude there were never any other trumpets preceding this future one in the bible.

I will throw in my Concave Hollow Earth beliefs, if the earth is the shape I believe it is, it will be possible for all eyes of the earth to see the second coming of Jesus, our Lord and Savior.

Anyways, don't want to derail the thread, but I'm throwing it in there for good measure.. lol

Thats one way to see it I guess, no comment different topic, lol

I would like to encourage everyone, who maybe alive during the second coming of Jesus. You will not miss the Lord's coming, it is no secret, the world will see it. After all the tribulation and earth gone dark, you will be pleading every day for the Lord to come quickly. As of now the sun still shines and we have about 8 billion people left on earth, and etc.

Amen, The sky will recede like a scroll, everyone one will see into heaven, and people will want rocks to fall on them to hide them from Him who sits on the throne,

 

[kinda]

Yea, you know, I pretty well have a very firm handle on the pre-trib rapture. Frankly, the confusion always ends up being a matter of shocking and embarrassing Biblical illiteracy on the part of the deniers. And mostly of the OT types, patterns, encoded fractal shards of the greater and epic Biblical truth.

I can only hope that you actually ready the OT passages that I have posted and recognize that the OT does, and MUST, validate and confirm the NT principle of the pre-trib rapture.

Oh and before I forget, the Church per se is NEVER MENTIONED beyond Revelation Chapter 4 verse 1....

Rev 4:1
After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Hereafter what exactly? After the CHURCH AGE so noted in chapters 2 and 3.......

You mean the OT types that have Moses as their avatar?

I will let you be, you can believe in pre tribulation, and hopefully we can have better conversations in another thread. For this thread, I think your just talking in circles and puffing yourself up. lol

I hope there is at least one pretribbers that isn't jacked on sugar and can carry a conversation, one can hope. So far, it's just anecdotal, and one liners. Oh looks like we have one..

 

[kinda]

Im not trying to be facetious, Im trying to work out from where your coming from before I can agree or disagree, Im wanting to know if you have the bowl judgments following the the 7th trumpet or if they run simultaneous? some people have the bowl judgments in the seventh trumpet and end up having a mid trib rapture, do you have a Messianic kingdom (trumpetless that follows)

You explain your view point first. I quite sure I explained my self plenty. Do you see how nice my post was?

logical definition if there is a last trump, then there has to be a first trump? Do you see all 7 trumpets of Revelation as part and parcel of the rapture calling?

How do you see it? Where do you find one verse that says, the elect are taken from the earth, before the great tribulation?

dont think we should put stock in people, why not just read the bible for ourselves to see what we believe, I just googled Monte Judah, part of the hebrew roots movement he declared God told him the tribulation had started a few decades ago, woops!

Sure, he made an error. He also has done more for the kingdom, than you have.. Am I wrong?

be honest it makes zero sense to me, its like trying to tell me when the angel sounds the first trumpet we know its the first trumpet so therefore we must conclude there were never any other trumpets preceding this future one in the bible.

Once again, this is classic distraction. You can't find your pre tribulation rapture in the Bible, so you try to find fault in the Biblical perspective. No? Where is your Bible verses that says, the rapture occurs before the tribulation? You got nothing.

Thats one way to see it I guess, no comment different topic, lol

I have been laughed in my face, on this topic. I tried for the longest time to get a real discussion, if you think you know something, the thread is in the conspiracy forum... I promise you, I will have the last laugh.

Amen, The sky will recede like a scroll, everyone one will see into heaven, and people will want rocks to fall on them to hide them from Him who sits on the throne,

 

[cv5]

Enoch and Lot together form one of the strongest two-witness patterns for a pre-tribulation removal in all of Scripture.


They are deliberately paired in the Bible as two different kinds of righteous people removed before judgment falls.


Let me show you how they work together.


1. Enoch = the Church removed to Heaven

Enoch is the first explicit rapture in the Bible.

“Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.”​

(Genesis 5:24)​

Hebrews explains why:

“By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death.”​

(Hebrews 11:5)​

Enoch:
• Never enters judgment
• Never dies
• Is taken upward
• Disappears suddenly


He is removed before the Flood — not preserved through it.


That is the Church.


2. The timing is not accidental

Enoch is taken 7 years before the Flood (by biblical chronology).


Seven is the number of completion — and prophetically, seven years = Tribulation.


God removed Enoch before the judgment cycle began.


Noah enters the Flood.
Enoch never does.


3. Lot = the Righteous Removed from the Earth

Lot is not taken to heaven — he is removed out of the judgment zone.


This shows the second half of the same truth:
God cannot pour out wrath while the righteous are still inside it.

“I cannot do anything until you are gone.”​

(Genesis 19:22)​

Jesus said:

“The same day Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire.”​

(Luke 17:29)​

Lot proves the timing: removal first, wrath second.


4. Why God gives us both Enoch and Lot

Because critics say:
“Enoch is just one guy — not a pattern.”


So God gives:
• Enoch — taken to heaven
• Lot — removed from earth


Two witnesses.
Same doctrine.


Different mechanics.


Both before wrath.


5. The Church matches Enoch, not Noah

The Church is never promised to go through wrath.


Israel (like Noah) is preserved through it.
The Church (like Enoch) is removed before it.


That’s why Revelation never shows the Church on earth after chapter 3.


Final Truth

Enoch proves the Bride is taken to heaven before judgment.
Lot proves the righteous cannot be in the place where judgment falls.


Together they teach one doctrine:

Removal before wrath.​

​

Enoch is taken 7 ***years*** before the Flood (by biblical chronology).

Sorry that is a fat finger typo my bad. Not YEARS per se, its more of a "symbolic seven" taught in some circles, but a teaching not particularly solid, thought not without merit. Really it should be ignored.

Some teachers map the 7 days to 7 years and then attach that to Enoch. That idea circulates in prophecy circles, echoing certain traditional claims.

 

[cv5]

You mean the OT types that have Moses as their avatar?

I will let you be, you can believe in pre tribulation, and hopefully we can have better conversations in another thread. For this thread, I think your just talking in circles and puffing yourself up. lol

I hope there is at least one pretribbers that isn't jacked on sugar and can carry a conversation, one can hope. So far, it's just anecdotal, and one liners. Oh looks like we have one..

Frankly the post-tribbers have NEVER won a debate around here. Ever.
They did exit the debate arena bruised and battered in a most humiliating fashion though.

Why? No armor, no sword, NO DEFENSE NO OFFENCE......

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

I hope there is at least one pretribbers that isn't jacked on sugar and can carry a conversation, one can hope.

Precious friend, @kinda hope, I resemble that remark; see post 200 and let me know
which of the 17 points you would like to have a { hopefully } kind and humble
Scriptural discussion about...

Grace and Peace!

 

[kinda]

pre or post-trib rapture?

Pre-trib is a fraud and false doctrine?

"What Saith The Scriptures"?:

The Many Scriptural Reasons I believe God's Sound Doctrine built on His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided!:

God's Great GRACE Departure! {aka Pre-Trib rapture}

Outline!:

"Do all things Decently And In Order!" (1 Corinthians 14:40 AV)

(1A) PEACE With God! Receiving The Holy Spirit For understanding?
(1B) 1A e-x-p-a-n-d-e-d for Clarification?

(2a) Which Bible: AV, or, any "newer modern version" will suffice?
(2b) AV And God's Bible study Rules!

(3a) God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided! - Brief Introduction...
(3b) Three "Ages" Rightly Divided! = God's Timelines?

(4) Which "Gospel" Makes Way For Which "Gospel"?
(5) GREAT Tribulation? or, tribulations/GREAT GRACE Departure!?

(6) Pre-TOJT GRACE Departure Expectations!?
(7) God's Heavenly UPlook For His Body!?

(8) Watching, Waiting, And Looking: For WHOM! or, For "signs"?
(9) God's Removal Of His Body Of CHRIST!:

(10) "Day Of CHRIST { Light }!" / Rightly Divided from {RDf}:
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \ "The Day Of The LORD [ Darkness ]!"?

(11) Confidence in death/resurrection, Or, in living/glorification!?
(12) CHRIST Will Come "Without Warning!"?

(13) The Two "Trumps" Of God, In His "Age Of GRACE"?
(14) Meeting Him "In The Air" Up To Heaven! vs U-turn (theology?)

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Back down To earth?​

(15) Preparation For [ Israel's tribulation? OR: ]

The Judgment Seat Of Christ!? (1 Corinthians 3:8-15 AV)

(16) Post Departure Deception Question?
+
Note: any of the sections above are always open for discussion if you wish, just 'ask'...
+
Conclusion = Part 17:

God's Great GRACE Departure!​

​

"Wherefore Comfort one another With These Words!" (1 Thessalonians 4:18 AV)

Amen.

----------------------------

And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:

The Bible: The BIG Picture

Amen.

Can you fully type out what verses are proclaiming a pre tribulation rapture and maybe explain in a quick little summary in your own words, how that is?

I don't see how most can make a lick of sense out of your post? Honest question, is English your second language? Can you maybe rephrase this in plain English, you know with sentences, and Bible verses that actually show a pre tribulation rapture?

Thank you kindly...

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

I first thought this was a bit harsh, but after responding to what he said, I'm gonna have to agree. He is just literally parroting, what his pastor told him. This to me is scary.

People need to question what their pastors say, and not just blindly believe it. Pastors can and do make mistakes, even with scripture interpretation.

It IS scary because the Bible is clear about Jesus returning after the GT.

The Bible also said that many will fall away from the faith and we're seeing people setting themselves up for that when they see the GT has begin, that they're still in it and Jesus hasn't picked them up.

Its going to be terrible when this happens. Not only lots of falling away, but betrayal as welll to try to save their own skins. This will happen because they will not have built up their faith to endure in Christ.

Some will take the mark because they won't trust God to provide for them. They'll also take the mark because they won't be willing to die for Christ out of fear or they love their life more than they love Jesus.

Thie only way to get through the GT without falling away is to build our faith in Christ to endure to the end. This building takes time and thats why I encourage people to do so now.

A perfect example is the church at Philadelphia. God gave them a promise that He will keep them and that's what He did. When the persecution came, God didn't rapture them out, but kept from falling away. At least 11 were known to be martyred, but none fell away!

 

[Edward429451]

Can you fully type out what verses are proclaiming a pre tribulation rapture and maybe explain in a quick little summary in your own words, how that is?

Scripture says you can't do that though.

1 Corinthians 2:
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned..../KJV

 

[kinda]

It IS scary because the Bible is clear about Jesus returning after the GT.

The Bible also said that many will fall away from the faith and we're seeing people setting themselves up for that when they see the GT has begin, that they're still in it and Jesus hasn't picked them up.

Its going to be terrible when this happens. Not only lots of falling away, but betrayal as welll to try to save their own skins. This will happen because they will not have built up their faith to endure in Christ.

Some will take the mark because they won't trust God to provide for them. They'll also take the mark because they won't be willing to die for Christ out of fear or they love their life more than they love Jesus.

Thie only way to get through the GT without falling away is to build our faith in Christ to endure to the end. This building takes time and thats why I encourage people to do so now.

A perfect example is the church at Philadelphia. God gave them a promise that He will keep them and that's what He did. When the persecution came, God didn't rapture them out, but kept from falling away. At least 11 were known to be martyred, but none fell away!

It's good to find like minded believers. Yeah, living in the Western world is like heaven already. There are Christians being killed for their faith in other countries. That shows a lot of faith.

I'm not sure how the West will do, if push comes to shove. Just look at the Covid injections, I heard all the time, oh I just took the shot to travel, or I just wanted to see my family. Can you imagine, you can't buy, or sell. No food if you don't take the mark? They got about 80% of the U.S. population to take the shot. I would venture a guess, if you say, no food, if no mark. It will be like 95%. That's just a guess.

Now I don't really know, what this mark of the beast is. Is it a computer chip, is it deeds, is it follow the system? The main thing is, we all have to be ready to make the final sacrifice for our faith, if the time comes, but there is no better cause to die for than Jesus.

Do you remember the Columbine shooting? One of my favorite stories is about Rachel. One of the shooters, put a gun to Rachel's head, and asked, do you believe in God? She said, yes. The shooter said, well, be with him now, and pulled the trigger. I hope God has a special place for Rachel in heaven.

 

[kinda]

Scripture says you can't do that though.

1 Corinthians 2:
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned..../KJV

So, you're gonna write a moderator on CC, to tell them to close the Bible Forum, because we can't discuss the Bible?

 

[cv5]

Can you fully type out what verses are proclaiming a pre tribulation rapture and maybe explain in a quick little summary in your own words, how that is?

I don't see how most can make a lick of sense out of your post? Honest question, is English your second language? Can you maybe rephrase this in plain English, you know with sentences, and Bible verses that actually show a pre tribulation rapture?

Thank you kindly...

"explain in a quick little summary"

Since that has already been provided in the last few pages, what then is your excuse?
But really, a solid multi-year effort to truly master the topic is highly recommended.
I mean, you have been commissioned have you not?

Mat 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Mat 28:20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

It's good to find like minded believers. Yeah, living in the Western world is like heaven already. There are Christians being killed for their faith in other countries. That shows a lot of faith.

I'm not sure how the West will do, if push comes to shove. Just look at the Covid injections, I heard all the time, oh I just took the shot to travel, or I just wanted to see my family. Can you imagine, you can't buy, or sell. No food if you don't take the mark? They got about 80% of the U.S. population to take the shot. I would venture a guess, if you say, no food, if no mark. It will be like 95%. That's just a guess.

Oh wow, I hadn't even thought about the covid shot statistics. That's a good gauge for the mark of the beast. So you think maybe 95% will take it? Including Christians? With the Bible saying that many will fall away and on top of that refusing the mark of the beast means execution, your guess is probably accurate.

The estimated US population in 2025 is

341,784,857 x 0.05% is 17,089,242.85

So some of that would be a good chunk of Christians bravely dying for the Lord.

Now I don't really know, what this mark of the beast is. Is it a computer chip, is it deeds, is it follow the system? The main thing is, we all have to be ready to make the final sacrifice for our faith, if the time comes, but there is no better cause to die for than Jesus.

Do you remember the Columbine shooting? One of my favorite stories is about Rachel. One of the shooters, put a gun to Rachel's head, and asked, do you believe in God? She said, yes. The shooter said, well, be with him now, and pulled the trigger. I hope God has a special place for Rachel in heaven.

Yeah, I remember a girl died saying yes about believing Jesus. I'm proud of her! She could have sais no out of fear, but she didnt! I'm sure she does have a special place for her in Heaven. She is also fortunate not to have to live through what we're facing right now.

This is why building up faith in Christ to endure is so mportant right now - because Jesus will also work in the heart not to be afraid to die for Him.


Some Christians will survive though. I've been reading up on how God helped some people survive the concentration camps during the Holocaust .Maybe I'll post about that some time later.


️

 

[kinda]

Oh wow, I hadn't even thought about the covid shot statistics. That's a good gauge for the mark of the beast. So you think maybe 95% will take it? Including Christians? With the Bible saying that many will fall away and on top of that refusing the mark of the beast means execution, your guess is probably accurate.

The estimated US population in 2025 is

341,784,857 x 0.05% is 17,089,242.85

So some of that would be a good chunk of Christians bravely dying for the Lord.

Matthew 24:10-13

10 And then many will fall away[a] and betray one another and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12 And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold.13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Well, I can personally see lawlessness increasing. Same with people betraying one another and hating one another. It's like the social norm. Do I think the love of many have grown cold? Absolutely. No doubt in my mind.

, I remember a girl died saying yes about believing Jesus. I'm proud of her! She could have sais no out of fear, but she didnt! I'm sure she does have a special place for her in Heaven. She is also fortunate not to have to live through what we're facing right now.

This is why building up faith in Christ to endure is so mportant right now - because Jesus will also work in the heart not to be afraid to die for Him.


Some Christians will survive though. I've been reading up on how God helped some people survive the concentration camps during the Holocaust .Maybe I'll post about that some time later. ️

Yeah, the world is legit crazy right now, it's definitely a good idea to sober up, and build your faith up, so if things go sour, you got some foundation to lean on. To be honest, I thought Covid was gonna go on indefinitely. I already decided I wasn't gonna get the shot, so I figure it was just a matter of time, before the starve me out. It seemed like freedoms were slowly gonna all be taken away, and I was o.k. with it. I accepted my fate, but glad we got our freedoms back.

Yeah, post some stories for encouragement. I wish we could go back 10 years, so we can enjoy a relatively normal life. lol This world just seems like it's on a collision course with crazy... I don't know how you see things, but it seems my inner circle has definitely changed. Not sure if the shot had anything to do with it, the lockdowns, financial pressure, or something else, but people have changed. Grown cold for sure. Not everyone, but many people.

 

[cv5]

It IS scary because the Bible is clear about Jesus returning after the GT.

The Bible also said that many will fall away from the faith and we're seeing people setting themselves up for that when they see the GT has begin, that they're still in it and Jesus hasn't picked them up.

Its going to be terrible when this happens. Not only lots of falling away, but betrayal as welll to try to save their own skins. This will happen because they will not have built up their faith to endure in Christ.

Some will take the mark because they won't trust God to provide for them. They'll also take the mark because they won't be willing to die for Christ out of fear or they love their life more than they love Jesus.

Thie only way to get through the GT without falling away is to build our faith in Christ to endure to the end. This building takes time and thats why I encourage people to do so now.

A perfect example is the church at Philadelphia. God gave them a promise that He will keep them and that's what He did. When the persecution came, God didn't rapture them out, but kept from falling away. At least 11 were known to be martyred, but none fell away!

According to their "Simultaneous Type" theology:

Laodicea is the dominant trend of the modern church (lukewarm, wealthy, but spiritually blind).

Philadelphia is the faithful minority existing alongside them.

Thieme taught that Philadelphia represents the "Pivot"—the core group of mature believers whose presence on earth actually holds back divine judgment. Once the "Pivot" (the Philadelphia type) is removed via the Rapture, the salt is gone, and the world is "turned over" to the Tribulation.

 

[Edward429451]

So, you're gonna write a moderator on CC, to tell them to close the Bible Forum, because we can't discuss the Bible?

Dont be ridiculous. Your demanding that a few verses explain all about the rapture and that it must say it is pre trib.

You cant even do that for a post trib view. now what? I didnt say you were not allowed to ask questions or discuss. I posted a very relevant scripture that says, that is impossible to do. Can you understand scripture when you read it? I guess not lol.

1 Corinthians 2:
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned..../KJV