Genesis 15:6 And he [Abraham] believed in the LORD; and he [the LORD] counted it to him [Abraham] for righteousness.
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The book of Job
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God said this in the first test, but not in the second test. In the second test God said, "In all this did not Job sin with his lips."
In the first chapter we are told that Job made an offering for his sons because they may have sinned with their hearts. In the second test Job is given a pass on sinning with his lips, but never mentions sinning with his heart.
Isn't this how we all get saved, by faith believing, and then receiving God's righteousness. That is to receive Christ who is the righteousness of God.
2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
We need to be robed in Christ. We put on Christ and he covers us.
Rom 13:14 But put ye on G1746 the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed G1746 we shall not be found naked.
But Job was clothed in his own righteousness.
Job 29:14 I put on righteousness, and it clothed me: my judgment was as a robe and a diadem.
Job 27:6 My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live.
Job never said his righteousness was more than God's. That is an accusation leveled at Job from his accuser, Elihu. There is no verse you can point to where Job declares he is more righteous than God. In fact, you will find Job saying the opposite. Refer to chapter 9 for example.
You cannot base an interpretation of this book on false premises.
Also, it was God Himself who admitted that He allowed this suffering to befall Job "without cause". Read Job 2:3. It's there in black and white for anyone to see.
You cannot base an interpretation of this book on false premises. You cannot change the facts as they are written in the text. If your interpretation involves changing the written word than the interpretation is wrong.
Nowhere does it say that God sent Elihu to Job. Nowhere. Elihu alone makes this claim. It's one thing if you interpret it that way, which I think is unfortunate, but it is not a given fact in the text.
You cannot base an interpretation of this book on false premises.
Yet he passed, see Job 42, the last Chapter. Then deeper in the risen Son for us all as is today and forever reconciled by God Father for us to now ask Father sincerely for the new life in the risen Son Jesus.
Believe, receive and see new and grow new unto maturity in Father and Son for you too
Hebrews 54:12-Chapter 6
Love and mercy to all John 13:34
Actually Job failed the second test in chapter two. Satan had said Job would not bless God, but Job did bless God after the first test. But Job did not bless God after the second test.
In the Hebrew, which was the original, Satan said Job would not bless God. In the translations the Hebrew word bless is translated into curse. In Job 1:11 (Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.) Strong's Hebrew has "barak lo" instead of curse, which in the Hebrew is "bless not". In Job 2:5 the "barak" occurs but "lo" does not, but "lo"(not) is implied. While to not bless God is to curse him substituting "curse" for "bless not" puts a completely different understanding to the tests.
After the second test God does not praise Job. God no longer says Job has retained his integrity. The next time God speaks to Job is in chapter 38, where God says Job is without knowledge. We nee to look to the New Testament to understand what God is saying about Job.
Rom 10:1-3 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
These verses in Roman's describe Job, for he had a zeal for God, but was leaning on his own righteousness.
Job 27:6 My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live.
Elihu said, Job 35:2 Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, My righteousness is more than God's?
God said, Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?
Job's charges against God's righteousness
Job 9:17 For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.
Job 9:23 If the scourge slay suddenly, he will laugh at the trial of the innocent.
Job 9:24 The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: he covereth the faces of the judges thereof; if not, where, and who is he?
Job's statement of his own righteousness.
Job 29:14 I put on righteousness, and it clothed me: my judgment was as a robe and a diadem.
Job 27:6 My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live.
That was only after the first test. God did not say he allowed the second test without cause.
You believe Elihu is a liar, and that God gave a liar six chapters in the bible. Nor could Job or any of his friends answer Elihu. We even know who Elihu's father is. We don't know who Job's father was.
One of the conclusions I have come to about the Book of Job and trying to understand it is that it is **not** first and foremost about any one of us. I think there is an unhealthy proclivity to want to compare our own personal sufferings with those of Job. I do not think that means that we can't or that we shouldn't, but what I am saying is that it seems extraordinarily shortsighted and self-centered to want to make this story about ourselves.
That said, I believe you have mentioned in other comments in this thread that you have heard Job is a type and shadow of Christ. If you go down this road, the comparisons in Scripture are overwhelming. If that is the case, then part of the point of this book could be to reveal Christ Jesus to us. Perhaps it is to reveal the extent of His suffering, the depth of pain he suffered -- specifically during his Passion and going to the Cross where He was utterly forsaken by everyone. Jesus was a blameless man who suffered having committed no sin. It seems to be the case that this story is ultimately about Jesus and His suffering, and by extension a picture of the persecuted church, His body.
For the naysayers, here is a qualification. Job is **not** Jesus. Rather, as the OP has mentioned, Job is a "type and shadow" of Christ, not a literal incarnation of Him. Compare this to other OT figures whom we can see as a type and shadow of Christ, including Moses, David, Joseph and a host of others. These key figures who reveal something about the nature and character of the Savior who was to come, albeit they all fell short of being the actual Messiah.
Looking at the book through this lens seems to make a lot more sense. God the Father sent Jesus His Son to die on the Cross for our sins. He was an innocent and blameless man who suffered unjustly. Also, consider what Jesus Himself stated regarding the Scriptures (meaning the OT at the time) in John 5:39. He clearly states the Scriptures testify about Him, which would include the Book of Job. Additionally, in Luke 24:25-27 Jesus unpacks Scripture for the men on the road to Emmaus and explains how Scripture was pointing to **Him**, including His suffering. The Book of Job seems to be a megaphone for His testimony, specifically as it relates to Christ's suffering.
Wow, the end /Chapter is where Job was is God approved
Yes, Job finally got angered over those World Counselors, who kept accusing Job of Sin.
Job finally rebuked them. So God stepped in to humble Job and Job humbled to God and we see he passed any test you say he did not Pass
Read the Last Chapter please, the whole Chapter as a whole and do not draw on verses only.
that is where people strain out gnats and swallow camels
God loves us all, time to give Creedence to Father and Son alone thank you
If you subscribe to the interpretation that Job is giving us a type and shadow of Jesus Christ, which is supported by the Lord's word that "ye search the scriptures" and yet they are talking about Jesus and you don't even see that. Well then, what about Paul's word that "I have been crucified with Christ and It is no longer I that live but Christ that lives in me". How can Job be a type and shadow of the crucified Christ and not apply to our being crucified with Christ?
Paul said he suffered the loss of all things and counts them as dung. How can that word about being crucified with Christ not be related to the book of Job?
God asks Job if he has a voice like God's and an arm like God's? Surely that word can apply to Jesus Christ, but then how can it not apply to the church which is the Body of Christ?
Paul says he is filling up in his body that which is lacking of the afflictions of Christ. If the afflictions of Christ are prefigured in the book of Job how can this not refer to the suffering that Christians go through?
God affirms at the end of the book in chapter 42 that what Job has spoken about Him was **right**. Read it again. This is another example where the interpretation is based on things not in the text. Additionally, you have no verse where Job says his righteousness is "more" than God's. We all realize this is your and Elihu's interpretation, but it is patently false as anyone reading this book can easily verify. Sorry, your basis for interpretation is utterly unfounded.
And if the first test was "without cause" and Job passed, then guess what? The second test was also "without cause" because nothing had changed in Job's belief or faith in God. Again, you cannot bend and contort what is written to suit your particular interpretation. The facts and what is actually written precedes the interpretation, not the other way around.
You must also notice that the **reason** Job explains himself and talks about his integrity is because **his friends were pressing him and blaming him for sin**. What Job is saying in chapter 27 & 29 is because his friends were falsely accusing him of wrongdoing. In the end they were proven wrong and Job was justified **by God Himself**.
Again, the postulate is that Job is a type and shadow -- not a literal figure of Christ Jesus. Job is not a christophany in that sense. Rather, the view suggests, like other OT figures already named, that Job reveals an aspect, a part, an element of the character of the One and only Messiah, Christ Jesus. In Job's case, the parallel is with an innocent and blameless and faithful believer in Yahweh who suffers.
Also, remember Job himself looks forward and seems to grasp the idea of a Savior **outside of himself**. Read Job 19:25 where he makes it clear that he knows his Redeemer lives and one day He will stand on the earth. Seems quite clear that Job does not think that he himself is that Redeemer. He seems to say this with eyes of faith.
For us as the reader, however, it seems that perhaps God gave us this story -- and other believers prior to Christ's appearance on earth -- as a picture, a foreshadowing, to reveal Christ Jesus to us.
Also, consider these OT Scriptures, for examples:
1. Psalm 2:7 "I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee." This psalm is attributed to being written by David. Do you think David was talking about himself? Cross reference this with Acts 13:33 where Luke clearly makes the distinction that this verse is pointing forward to Christ Jesus.
2. Psalm 16:10 "For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption." Again the psalmist here is David. Is he speaking of Himself? Cross reference with Acts 13:34, 35 where again Luke makes it clear this is about Christ Jesus.
Hope that helps.
Blessings.
You did not acknowledge whether there was a second test or not. If you do recognize that there was a second test you would also recognize that God did say that Job was perfect and upright after the second test, nor did God say Job retained his integrity.
Elihu condemned the three friends because they did not have an answer for Job's dilemma.
God condemned the three friends because they did not have an answer for Job's dilemma.
God said to the three friends that they did not say what was right as Job had done. You have to realized that Job did not say what was right until he confessed himself to be a sinner. That is when Job put on God's righteousness and was born again. Elihu states this in chapter 33 when he said job was heading for the pit.
Job 33:27 He looketh upon men, and if any say, I have sinned, and perverted that which was right, and it profited me not; He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and his life shall see the light. (Remember when Job said, (I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.) (Job 42:5)
Job also said, Job 42:6 "Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes."
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Continuation--
Notice That Elihu said, Job 33:24 "Then he is gracious unto him, and saith, Deliver him from going down to the pit: I have found a ransom". (The ransom he is speaking of is Jesus Christ.)
And then Elihu said, Job 33:25 "His flesh shall be fresher than a child's: he shall return to the days of his youth:" (This is a picture of the rebirth.)
Jhn 3:3 "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again."
Job had asked God for someone that might plead for him. Job 16:21 "O that one might plead for a man with God, as a man pleadeth for his neighbour"! God gave job the opportunity to plead for his three friends.
Job 42:8 Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.
Notice that Job was accepted also after the three friends were accepted.
Job 42:9 So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went, and did according as the LORD commanded them: the LORD also accepted Job.
Notice That Elihu said, Job 33:24 "Then he is gracious unto him, and saith, Deliver him from going down to the pit: I have found a ransom". (The ransom he is speaking of is Jesus Christ.)
And then Elihu said, Job 33:25 "His flesh shall be fresher than a child's: he shall return to the days of his youth:" (This is a picture of the rebirth.)
Jhn 3:3 "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again."
Job had asked God for someone that might plead for him. Job 16:21 "O that one might plead for a man with God, as a man pleadeth for his neighbour"! God gave job the opportunity to plead for his three friends.
Job 42:8 Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.
Notice that Job was accepted also after the three friends were accepted.
Job 42:9 So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went, and did according as the LORD commanded them: the LORD also accepted Job.
yes ... salvation has always been by grace through faith ... from days of Adam to now and into the future.
agree ... the only way we can overcome and stand fast against the wiles of the devil is by remaining in the Lord Jesus Christ. If we are lured from our abode in Him, we are unable in and of ourselves to withstand against the onslaught of our adversary.tttallison said:
God does not send us out into the world alone. He equips us, stands with us, leads us through the muck and mire of our present day. We are never left alone to face the adversary ... however, if we are drawn away from God and follow our own devices, we will fail. And when we turn to God after we realize we have stumbled, God is always there. He lifts us up, cleanses us, heals us. We learn to trust Him and follow Him.
In Job's day and time, Job looked forward to his coming Redeemer.
Job 19:25-27
25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.
My understanding is that Job's friends believed that Job had sinned and he needed to repent. They believed Job was being punished by God for a sin Job had committed and for which Job needed to repent. Some folks in our day and time believe the same thing ... that once a person is born again, he or she will no longer have any problems and if a born again believer goes through hard times, that is due to God punishing them for something they have done ... a sin for which they need to confess.tttallison said:
However, that is not always the case. While it is true God will chasten His children and we are grieved when we are chastened, it is also true that satan walks about as a roaring lion seeking to devour and, in that case, the grievous times we go through have nothing to do with any sin committed ... that's just satan being satan.
In the case of Job, he had not sinned and neither Job nor his friends knew or understood that Job was under attack from satan.
I believe Job walked in close fellowship with God prior to the attack by satan. While under attack, God had removed His hedge from Job (Job 1:9-12). In other words, God had distanced Himself from Job and Job no longer felt the presence of God in his life and this was very troubling to Job. Job sought after God as he wanted that close relationship restored:
Job 23:3, 8-12
3 Oh that I knew where I might find him! that I might come even to his seat!
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8 Behold, I go forward, but he is not there; and backward, but I cannot perceive him:
9 On the left hand, where he doth work, but I cannot behold him: he hideth himself on the right hand, that I cannot see him:
10 But he knoweth the way that I take: when he hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold.
11 My foot hath held his steps, his way have I kept, and not declined.
12 Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food.
Even though Job felt distanced from God, Job held fast to God's promises, esteeming His Word more precious than food. Job's faith was deeply rooted in God and His promises.
I do not believe Job was puffed up in self-righteousness. I believe Job examined himself and sought any reason for this distancing by God. Some comments from Job which show he was not puffed up. Job was a humble man ... a believer who esteemed his relationship with God as something he did not want to live without:
Job 6:24 Teach me, and I will hold my tongue: and cause me to understand wherein I have erred.
Job 7:20-21 I have sinned; what shall I do unto thee, O thou preserver of men? why hast thou set me as a mark against thee, so that I am a burden to myself? And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be
Job 9:20 If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.
Job 9:32-34 For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment. Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both. Let him take his rod away from me, and let not his fear terrify me
Job 10:2 I will say unto God, Do not condemn me; shew me wherefore thou contendest with me.
Job 10:15 If I be wicked, woe unto me; and if I be righteous, yet will I not lift up my head. I am full of confusion; therefore see thou mine affliction
There are many, many more verses where Job asks God to show him where he had sinned so he could repent and have his fellowship with God restored.
There is so much more to Job than we allow. Here is what God says about Job in Ezekiel 14:
Ezekiel 14:13-14 Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it: Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.
Job 14:18-20 Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters, but they only shall be delivered themselves. Or if I send a pestilence into that land, and pour out my fury upon it in blood, to cut off from it man and beast: Though Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.
In our day and time we should carefully study the book of Job and learn that we are to endure every situation we find ourselves in this life ... in good times, seek God and bask in His presence in our lives ... in not good times, seek God and know that if we stand firm in faith, withstand the onslaught of the adversary, hold to the promises in God's Word, know that eventually the adversary will flee from us, and also know that when we are going through trying times, God is at work within us to perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle us (1 Peter 5:10). We may not realize all God is working in us because we are so focused on what is going on around us ... but God is faithful and we know that He works in us just as He tells us in 1 Peter 5:10.
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I believe that Job's trial was at least in part brought on by himself. He was self righteous, and made sure that people knew about it. He also lived in fear of losing what he had. He trusted himself rather than trusting the mercy and grace of God. He did not know God, by his own admission.
Self righteousness is a blight. It leads to pride and complacency. Christians are far more at risk of defeat when everything is going well than when they are in trouble.
I've had a number of not so fun experiences. Many years ago, all was going great. Then it all fell apart. Some time later, I asked the Lord where I had gone wrong. He said to me, "You thought that you had changed."
We are only in reality what we are under pressure. God knows where we are at in reality. We need to know ourselves. We need to know that God is the one who effects change in us. Ina very real sense, we never change. God's remedy is not to change but to replace. We lose our lives, the life we got from Adam, and we gain new Life, the life that is ours in Christ. So we change by exchange, new life that replaces the old. And that is the "cross daily" we all must carry - if we want to be for real in Christ.
Yep, you can certainly tie this parable to Job:
Luke 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
But it is vague. Although this could fit it isn't a certainty. I think Job depicts people of God suffering. It is not always due to being self righteous, but that could certainly be seen as a subset of those who are suffering.
The Bible says God cannot lie. If my words are truth and when I speak I speak things into being then it would be impossible for me to lie because the things I speak would be truth and would be spoken into reality.
In order to lie you must be disconnected from the creator so that what you speak does not come into being.