The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[Qt]

Did Jesus chase any of these people down? No He did not. He he had words with them and than left it there until the next time they took offense at Him.

You can have the last word.

This is a discussion site. No one is chasing anyone. We are all here willing, looking to share with people who do not believe as we do or do believe as we do so we can discuss.

 

[Qt]

I wonder, how many who say you must obey the TC do the following:
Every time they dwell on any impure thought do they get down on their knees and ask God’s forgiveness because the righteous obey the TC?
Every time they desire anything of their neighbours whether material goods or a member of their household, do they get down on their knees and ask God’s forgiveness because the righteous obey the TC
Every time they tell even a little fib about another, do they get down on their knees and ask God’s forgiveness for the righteous obey the TC
Every time they erect any graven image in their mind do they get down on their knees and ask God’s forgiveness for the righteous obey the TC
Every time they desire, in their thoughts anyone apart from their spouse, do they get down on their knees and ask God’s forgiveness for the righteous obey the TC
Every time they fail to obey the commandment in their desires/thoughts/what goes on, on the inside of man, do they get down on their knees and ask God’s forgiveness because the righteous obey the TC?
I wonder

You don't?

 

[Qt]

Well as you transgress the TC, will you not inherit eternal life? Or does that only apply to others?

Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

 

[vassal]

Is food still offered to other Gods then eaten in the modern age?

Here are some of the most prominent cultures and traditions that practice this:

• Hinduism (India, Nepal, Bali): Perhaps the most widespread, this practice is known as Naivedya (offering) or Prasada (blessed food). Devotees place food before an image or altar of a deity, often chanting mantras to invite the divine to accept it. The food is then considered blessed and eaten with reverence. In many homes, this is done daily before lunch or dinner.
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• Tibetan Buddhism: A Tsok offering involves dedicating food, drink, and other substances to deities, which is later consumed by practitioners to "gather" merit and blessings.
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• Philippines (Indigenous & Folk Catholicism): The Atang is a ritual, particularly in the Ilocano tradition, where food is offered to spirits or the deceased to appease them or ask for protection. It is common to offer the first bite or a portion of the food before eating.
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• China/Taiwan/Vietnam: In ancestor worship and traditional folk religion, food is placed on family altars or at shrines to honor gods and ancestors. While some traditions involve leaving the food, others allow the food to be eaten by the family after it has been "enjoyed" by the spirits.
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• Ancient Greek and Roman Traditions: Historical records show that Greeks would offer aparchai (first-fruits) or portions of their meals to the gods, a practice often accompanied by pouring libations (wine or water).
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• Japanese Shinto/Buddhist Traditions: Before eating, it is customary in many households to say Itadakimasu ("I humbly receive"), which is a gesture of gratitude for the life of the plants/animals, the preparer, and the divine.

Key Aspects of the Ritual:

• Purpose: To thank the creator, reduce personal ego, and purify the food.
• Prasadam: In Hinduism, once food is offered, it becomes Prasadam (grace), which is believed to nourish the soul as well as the body.
• Timing: Often, the offering is made before anyone else eats, ensuring the divine is honored first.

The big question then follows; how widespread was food offered to other Gods in the first century?

• Purpose: To thank the creator, reduce personal ego, and purify the food.
• Prasadam: In Hinduism, once food is offered, it becomes Prasadam (grace), which is believed to nourish the soul as well as the body.
• Timing: Often, the offering is made before anyone else eats, ensuring the divine is honored first.

The big question then follows; how widespread was food offered to other Gods in the first century?[/QUOTE]

Food offered to other gods was very common in the first century. It happened across all the main cultures around Israel and the wider Roman world. When people ate in a town, at someone’s house, or in the marketplace, it was normal that some of the food had been offered to idols first. This was not a small or rare thing. It was part of daily life.
In the Greek and Roman world, almost every public meal was linked to a temple or a household shrine. When animals were killed for food, a part of the meat was offered to a god, another part was burned, and the rest was taken to the markets or eaten at feasts. This means a lot of the meat sold in normal markets came from these offerings.
In Asia Minor, Greece, Rome, Egypt, and Syria, families often placed pieces of bread, fruit, or wine before statues of household gods. After the offering was made, the family ate the food as part of the meal.
In the lands east of Israel, like Babylon and Persia, food was also offered in temples to honor local gods before people consumed it.
Inside Israel, Jews refused these customs, but they lived surrounded by nations where this was normal. In places like Galilee, Samaria, the Decapolis, and all the cities built by Greeks and Romans, people saw idol-offerings every day.
So the practice was not something done by a few groups. It was everywhere in the first-century world, especially in mixed cities where Jews and Gentiles lived side by side. This is why the early believers had to deal with the question so often. It was part of the culture all around them.

 

[mailmandan]

It comes down to those that follow or obey the COMMANDMENTS OF GOD and those that don't..
They don't because they follow the commandments of man or because they think God's commandments no longer apply or are changed today.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

....they that Keep the commandments of God. ....Do His commandments.

Psa 119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

Rom 13:10 .... therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Psa 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

Yes, we know, we know, only you and your SDA buddies have sufficiently obeyed the 10 commandments with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment and will receive eternal life based on that standard but as for NT believers who do not remain on the old covenant plantation of law (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:13) and instead, find our 'sabbatismos' rest in Jesus Christ (Hebrews 4:9) and not in observing a specific day (Colossians 2:16-17) you and your SDA buddies would say we have not kept the 4th commandment and therefore (have not kept God's commandments) and we will not receive eternal life because of that and it all primarily comes down to the 4th commandment. The gospel according to you and your SDA buddies culminates in "salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works." That's what this whole division between you and your SDA buddies and non-SDA believers is all about. Just own it.

I'm often reminded of the ludicrous teaching in which Seventh-day Adventists teach that the near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday.

Mark of the Beast - SDA Doctrine vs Bible Truth

 

[mailmandan]

Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

If one reads Romans 2:6-11 in isolation from the rest of the book of Romans, one might conclude that Paul was teaching salvation by works. However, as you read and study these passages, it’s critical to keep in mind that these verses do not describe how one becomes saved, but the way the saved conduct their lives. These good works done are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving eternal life.

So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal.

*Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath.

*Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9). What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means by which we receive eternal life, but the type of deeds expose our hearts.

These good deeds done out of faith are the fruit, but not the root of salvation. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. *Also see (Romans 3:24-28; 4:4-6; 11:6; Philippians 3:9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

In regard to Romans 2:12-16, we need to examine this verse in context. Paul was talking to the Jews (continue reading on in Romans 2:17-24) about their judging of the Gentiles and then points them to their own law (standard of judgment) and hypocrisy and tells them that the doers of the law will be justified before God (verse 13). That leaves them out, along with everyone else. (Romans 3:22-28; Galatians 2:16)

The standard they wanted to measure up to was the law. Paul was telling them that the doers of the law will be justified. So, obey the law, obey all of it, but if you don’t obey all of it, you have failed! He tells them that the Gentiles who didn't have the law according to the knowledge of the Jews were instinctively doing the things of the law (verse 14) and will be judged accordingly. How much more so the Jews? Paul was showing the self-righteous Jews who judged the Gentiles that they were not able to measure up to the perfect standard of the law. They were hypocrites.

This is why Paul tells us in the very next chapter in Romans 3:28 that we are justified by faith apart from the works of the law. No one was able to perfectly obey the law except for Jesus Christ. If you fail even once (stumble in one point), then you become guilty of all.

In James 2:10, we read - "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all." In Galatians 3:10, we read - "For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them."

The Jews could only be justified before God by keeping the Law, but he or she has to be 100% perfect, which is impossible. A person can’t fail even once, not ever. But all have failed (Romans 3:23; 6:23) and that is why man is justified before God by faith and not by works of the law. (Philippians 3:9)

 

[Undergrace1]

You don't?

Im quite sure, I would get on my knees and seek forgiveness, for things those who insist you must obey the TC would lightly dismiss. And, I speak of what I have witnessed in four decades

 

[Undergrace1]

Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

So what does Paul conclude from what he has been writing to the Romans thus far?
What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. Rom3:9

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. 19&20
Good idea to read it all. Lets go back to ch2:
Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and boast in God; 18 if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19 if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of little children, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21 you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22 You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24 As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”[b]

Could just be Paul is pointing out hypocrisy!
BTW
Rom 2:12&13
Those who are under the law will be judged by the law, absolutely, and they will be justified by the law.
But, are believers under the law? Not according to Paul(Rom6:14&Rom3:19)
And verses 14&15 are interesting, thank you for quoting them
If gentiles had never known of biblical law they can show the requirements(not some of the requirements) of the law are written on their hearts, obviously by the way they act
As you quoted it, I will assume you agree with that

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Those who say: ‘’You must obey the TC’’ do not have an inner conviction of what is fully entailed in obeying those commands.

So my understanding only God can read the thoughts of the millions of people who want to obey God's commandments. Unless one is professing to be god, I would leave that to God. There is nothing any of us can do, that will fool Him, He knows everything Ecc12:13-14 Psa 139:1-4 Heb4:13 Job 28:24

 

[SabbathBlessing]

It comes down to those that follow or obey the COMMANDMENTS OF GOD and those that don't..
They don't because they follow the commandments of man or because they think God's commandments no longer apply or are changed today.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

....they that Keep the commandments of God. ....Do His commandments.

Psa 119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

Rom 13:10 .... therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Psa 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

This is so plainly written in our Bibles and not sure why its so rejected.

We are accused that salvation is by grace plus works, when in actuality people confuse faith with works. That someone who has faith in Jesus would not do what He asks or try to follow in His footsteps. Can you imagine Jesus saying please do not be angry with your brother those thoughts can lead up to breaking the commandment to thou shalt not murder, just like it did for Cain did with Abel that caused him to sin, but we tell Him, no my Lord, that is works and I am saved by doing whatever I want. Its a nonsensical argument and I do not believe according to what Jesus predicted will work out so well. Mat5:19-30 Mat7:23 Luke 6:46-48

 

[Undergrace1]

So my understanding only God can read the thoughts of the millions of people who want to obey God's commandments. Unless one is professing to be god, I would leave that to God. There is nothing any of us can do, that will fool Him, He knows everything Ecc12:13-14 Psa 139:1-4 Heb4:13 Job 28:24

Not really, I went to a church on a Saturday for a while t o please a friend, your denomination to be precise. I saw more flagrant transgressing of the TC in that church than any church I have ever been to on a Sunday. People laughing and joking as they took the Lord's name in vain without a care in the world. I was literally shocked and stunned to witness such a thing. So who cared more about what is written in those commands, me, or those who kept insisting you must obey the TC?
I know, you must ignore what you have been shown!

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Not really, I went to a church on a Saturday for a while t o please a friend, your denomination to be precise. I saw more flagrant transgressing of the TC in that church than any church I have ever been to on a Sunday. People laughing and joking as they took the Lord's name in vain without a care in the world. I was literally shocked and stunned to witness such a thing. So who cared more about what is written in those commands, me, or those who kept insisting you must obey the TC?
I know, you must ignore what you have been shown!

One church does not represent the 24 million members. You have accused me of things that I know were not true. People accused Jesus and the apostles of sinning and it turned out to be false. God will sort it all out. I have been in the church most of my life and have not had that experience. There are also people who claim to be Adventists that are not. God is the only one who knows everything, best to leave these things with Him because even if what you say were true, will not help you on judgement day or anyone else. We all have to stand before Him based on what we do. Pointing fingers at someone else will not save us.

 

[Undergrace1]

One church does not represent the 24 million members. You have accused me of things that I know were not true. People accused Jesus and the apostles of sinning and it turned out to be false. God will sort it all out. I have been in the church most of my life and have not had that experience. There are also people who claim to be Adventists that are not. God is the only one who knows everything, best to leave these things with Him because even if what you say were true, will not help you on judgement day or anyone else. We all have to stand before Him based on what we do. Pointing fingers at someone else will not save us.

I will carry on. One woman turned up for church each week immaculately dressed with a bible tucked under her arm. To look at her you would think she was the most Godly of folk. And if the minister said something in the sermon she heartily approved of she gave out a hearty ''AMEN''
However, a while later I found out she was having multiple affairs, some overlapping. I said to her one day:
''How can you do that, you're transgressing the TC?''
She shrugged her shoulders and replied:
''All sin is equal and no ones perfect''

Good grief, I couldn't attend a church if I was having one affair, let alone multiple affairs

If you people understood where the bar is set for obedience concerning the TC you would not make the statements you do

 

[SabbathBlessing]

I will carry on. One woman turned up for church each week immaculately dressed with a bible tucked under her arm. To look at her you would think she was the most Godly of folk. And if the minister said something in the sermon she heartily approved of she gave out a hearty ''AMEN''
However, a while later I found out she was having multiple affairs, some overlapping. I said to her one day:
''How can you do that, you're transgressing the TC?''
She shrugged her shoulders and replied:
''All sin is equal and no ones perfect''

Good grief, I couldn't attend a church if I was having one affair, let alone multiple affairs

If you people understood where the bar is set for obedience concerning the TC you would not make the statements you do

So you condemned 24 million people based on one person.

Our standard is not other people, its God. If we look at what other people are doing or not doing we will fall every time. We look to Christ. Christ never told sinners to not come to Him, He came to save, the lost. Those who have all their righteousness, He has no where to work on their hearts.

Maybe your story is true, maybe its not, God only knows and will judge the hearts on His standard of righteousness, not ours or what we perceive others are doing or not doing. I have never experienced anything like this and have probably been to a lot more Sabbath churches than you have. But I do know when someone is looking for something, they usually find it even if its not reality.

 

[Undergrace1]

So you condemned 24 million people.

I haven't condemned anyone, not my place.
But I do know, people in your church have not had the christian experience I have.
If the Holy Spirit dwells in you, and applicable law is in your most inward parts, in your heart, and mind, that is huge, you cannot hide from that law or be in ignorance of what is entailed in obeying it.
I do not know personally of a christianity where you can transgress law casually in your heart and mind without consciousness you are doing so
The old covenant is not like the new one, the law has been placed in your most inward parts, it is part of your spiritual dna in Christ

 

[SabbathBlessing]

I haven't condemned anyone, not my place.
But I do know, people in your church have not had the christian experience I have.

Luke 18:9-14

God will sort it all out and only He knows the experiences of individuals that He has with them, not strangers on the internet.

 

[Undergrace1]

Luke 18:9-14

God will sort it all out and only He knows the experiences of individuals that He has with them, not strangers on the internet.

Your biblical quote is irrelevant, I have nothing to proud of about myself. I can honestly say God gets all the glory, no praise is due to me whatsoever

 

[Undergrace1]

Luke 18:9-14

God will sort it all out and only He knows the experiences of individuals that He has with them, not strangers on the internet.

BTW
I liked the minister at your church, he told me he never discussed differences of belief, it didn't get anywhere
And, because he knew of my evangelical background, when a woman preached one day and said:
''We don't have crazy talk in this church''
He looked at me apologetically. Nice man

 

[TMS]

Yes, we know, we know, only you and your SDA buddies have sufficiently obeyed the 10 commandments with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment and will receive eternal life based on that standard

No.. only Jesus has sufficiently obeyed the righteous standards. That's why we need salvation. We can't save ourselves..

but as for NT believers who do not remain on the old covenant plantation of law (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:13) and instead, find our 'sabbatismos' rest in Jesus Christ (Hebrews 4:9) and not in observing a specific day (Colossians 2:16-17) you and your SDA buddies would say we have not kept the 4th commandment and therefore (have not kept God's commandments) and we will not receive eternal life because of that and it all primarily comes down to the 4th commandment

God is judge, not any person but the Bible clearly states "keep God's commandments". Ps 119:115, Matt 19:17, John 14:15,21, 1 John 2:3, Rev 14:12..

Not because you aim to earn salvation but because you love Jesus.

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

It isn't just the 4th commandment. But the devil knows ... Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

The 4th or Sabbath commandment is the one people don't want to remember.
It's the one that people are quick to make excuses for not keeping. The other 9 isn't an issue for most people. But they are all important.

The gospel according to you and your SDA buddies culminates in "salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works." That's what this whole division between you and your SDA buddies and non-SDA believers is all about. Just own it.

Faith and works can not be seperated.
True faith will result in works.
The problem in Christian theology for many is the doctrine of cheap grace. The doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which Jesus hates, Rev 2:6, 15, was all about cheap grace, they taught that people can do as they please, (sin), and as long as they believe in Jesus they are saved.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

 

[Undergrace1]

you and your SDA buddies would say we have not kept the 4th commandment and therefore (have not kept God's commandments) and we will not receive eternal life because of that and it all primarily comes down to the 4th commandment.

I find their beliefs a bit contradictory at times. When I went to one of their churches for a while to please a friend, they all knew I was not sda, including the minister, but they still all accepted me as a christian.
And yet, obviously to them I was not obeying the TC.