Loss of salvation???

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
NightTwister said:
If it can be lost it's not eternal.
Click to expand...
His life is eternal. As long as we CONTINUE to abide in Him we will continue to share His (eternal) life.
When Jesus was praying to the Father in the garden this is what He said:
…2For You [Father] granted Him [the Son] authority over all people, so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him. 3Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only TRUE God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.
(John 17:3)

Jesus did not define "eternal life" as merely "everlasting existence." Even those who are sent to Hell have that.
The word Jesus used for KNOWING the Father is ginṓskō (γινώσκω)which properly means, to know, especially through personal experience (first-hand acquaintance). It is this the kind of relational knowing Jesus was referring to
(https://biblehub.com/greek/1097.htm.)
There was another word for "know" and that was oida He could have used that but oida meant "to have seen or perceived, hence to know" That is not the way we come to know Christ (see: https://biblehub.com/greek/3609a.htm

You act as if one one step of faith guarantees that we will remain in Him forever. By contrast, the Bible says:
6Therefore, just as you have received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to walk in Him, 7rooted and built up in Him, established in the faith as you were taught...(Colossians 2:6)
How did we first receive Him? First we saw our need for Him and we let go of our old life to walk in a dependent faith/love relationship with Him. That first step, Paul tells us must become a walk.
 
JimiSurvivor said:
His life is eternal. As long as we CONTINUE to abide in Him we will continue to share His (eternal) life.
When Jesus was praying to the Father in the garden this is what He said:
…2For You [Father] granted Him [the Son] authority over all people, so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him. 3Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only TRUE God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.
(John 17:3)

Jesus did not define "eternal life" as merely "everlasting existence." Even those who are sent to Hell have that.
The word Jesus used for KNOWING the Father is ginṓskō (γινώσκω)which properly means, to know, especially through personal experience (first-hand acquaintance). It is this the kind of relational knowing Jesus was referring to
(https://biblehub.com/greek/1097.htm.)
There was another word for "know" and that was oida He could have used that but oida meant "to have seen or perceived, hence to know" That is not the way we come to know Christ (see: https://biblehub.com/greek/3609a.htm

You act as if one one step of faith guarantees that we will remain in Him forever. By contrast, the Bible says:
6Therefore, just as you have received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to walk in Him, 7rooted and built up in Him, established in the faith as you were taught...(Colossians 2:6)
How did we first receive Him? First we saw our need for Him and we let go of our old life to walk in a dependent faith/love relationship with Him. That first step, Paul tells us must become a walk.
Click to expand...
If it can be lost, it's not eternal.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BillyBob and mailmandan
Cameron143 said:
The verse tells you...by the word of God.
Click to expand...

John 15:3 - You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

Ephesians 5;26 - that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word,

1 Peter 1:23 - having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever.

Water is used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 3:5; 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, and we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the washing of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)
 
  • Like
Reactions: BillyBob and Cameron143
Genez said:
So... You believe that the thief on the Cross was water baptized when he believed.
Click to expand...

Everyone who will not accept HIS word goes to the thief!!

We need to righty divide the word.

When the thief on the cross died, he died OT laws. Where people had to take a sacrifice to the high priests ones a year to have their sins forgiven GOD RULES.

JESUS is our high priest and he became our sacrifice our lamb.
When JESUS was on this earth and forgave sins as he wished like the thief.

JESUS preach app 3 years, died on the cross, buried and rose again. Then he ascended to Heaven to put his blood on the mercy seat.

Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

He then returned to earth and was here app 40 days and ascended again commanding his disciples to wait because they will be filled with the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:3-4

He ascended the second time and this was the first message of how to be reborn.
Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Since then until he returns again, we live in NT laws and how to be saved we need to repent, get baptized in JESUS name to get rid of our sins and receive the Holy Ghost like JESUS gave his disciples in Acts 2:4.
 
Genez said:
Acts 16:30-31

He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

There!
Click to expand...

Who ever altered the book your reading, that is who you are following NOT JESUS.

Since you are sharing it, you are just as respoinsible as who altered it.

Revelation 22:18-19
King James Version
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

JESUS'S WORD.

Acts 16:30-31
King James Version
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.


NOTICE THE WORD "SHALT" it DOES NOT SAY "ARE"

Meaning future, not yet for there is something that has to be done!!

My question was, were in your bible says if you believe you are saved?

So do you still believe that or do you have another verse?

IT'S NOT TRUE.
 
Genez said:
You have been given a human spirit, not only the indwelling Holy Spirit.



1 Thessalonians 5:23-24​
​
May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. ​
May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming ​
of our Lord Jesus Christ. The one who calls you is faithful, and he will do it.​

Since when does the Holy Spirit need to be kept blameless?
That speaks of your human spirit, which was begotten by the Holy Spirit.

grace and peace .........
Click to expand...

That does not anwerer that question!!!


Thank you I know JESUS has giving me HIS spirit just like HE gave HIS disciples in Acts 2:4.

Has HE given it to you?

Acts 2:4
King James Version
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
 
Cameron143 said:
Sure I do. I even gave you a scripture that plainly says we are born again by the word of God. Is 1 Peter 1:23 still included in scripture?
Click to expand...

Acts 2:38-39
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
 
sawdust said:
Satan's plan is to make them waterlogged and unable to think clearly. :ROFL:
Click to expand...

Satan know's HIS word and knows what happens in the water!!

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Is there anything we can learn from those scripture?

What do they say and mean?

Why were they being baptized?
 
Genez said:
In Jesus day women normally delivered their babies at home, not a hospital.
It was commonly known that before birth a woman would break water.

So? Water = the first birth, physical birth.

Just, Google - Woman breaking water.
Click to expand...
It's still commonly known, but the verse is speaking of being born again...so, both water and the Spirit belong to being born again.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mailmandan
sawdust said:
Because they are separate. You are saying a person is being born twice whether you realise it or not. You keep saying we are born of the water and the Spirit. What birth do you think Jesus is talking about? Jesus does not say water gives birth to spirit, He says Spirit gives birth to spirit. John's baptism in water wasn't even about salvation directly but about repentance and preparation for the Messiah who was coming to save. How many do you think got baptized by John ended up being the ones who cried "crucify Him" when Jesus didn't prove to be the Messiah they were expecting?

The water is symbolic of physical birth in the John 3 passage and I explained why quite clearly.

Nowhere has any one of you explained why we are suppose to be born of water when Jesus doesn't even baptize in water, only with the Spirit and with fire. Yet you keep wanting to make it necessary when it isn't even a part of His ministry to the Church.

You lot are still in the transition period. Forty years of discipline in the wilderness, forty years of grace before God said enough Israel, now you will wait till the end of the age.

You don't stop and actually weigh things together. It's all superficial platitudes that make no practical sense.
Click to expand...
And you can't understand that both water and Spirit refer to born again. Neither do you see that water is reference to the word of God.
Grace and peace.
 
Ouch said:
Acts 2:38-39
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Click to expand...
Read verse 37. Why don't you include it in your explanation? That is where the Spirit pricked their hearts and opened their minds with understanding, bringing about a change in their minds that led them to repent and be baptized.
 
Cameron143 said:
It's still commonly known, but the verse is speaking of being born again...so, both water and the Spirit belong to being born again.
Click to expand...
Amen! John 4:10 - Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that is saying to you, ‘Give me a drink,’ you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.”

John 4:14 - but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”

John 7:37 - On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cameron143
Cameron143 said:
Read verse 37. Why don't you include it in your explanation? That is where the Spirit pricked their hearts and opened their minds with understanding, bringing about a change in their minds that led them to repent and be baptized.
Click to expand...

Why didn't you share it since that is the question I asked you?
 
Cameron143 said:
Verse 37 is where an individual is born again. Verse 38 is what one born again does in response to the new life they have received.
Click to expand...

LOL, back to EVEYONE IS REBORN!!!

What you are saying is imposible!!

How can a person be born again and never get rid of their sins????

How can a person be born again and JESUS never filled them with the spirit?

Keep it simple use scripture to back that up.
 
Ouch said:
LOL, back to EVEYONE IS REBORN!!!

What you are saying is imposible!!

How can a person be born again and never get rid of their sins????

How can a person be born again and JESUS never filled them with the spirit?

Keep it simple use scripture to back that up.
Click to expand...
Again...NO. Everyone who heard the gospel the day of Pentecost were not saved. Only those who heard, were pricked, and who said. That was true of 3000. The rest were not given to hear, neither were their hearts pricked. Thus, their wills did not respond. The gospel is only the power of God to those who believe.
 
Cameron143 said:
Again...NO. Everyone who heard the gospel the day of Pentecost were not saved. Only those who heard, were pricked, and who said. That was true of 3000. The rest were not given to hear, neither were their hearts pricked. Thus, their wills did not respond. The gospel is only the power of God to those who believe.
Click to expand...

You don't understand, it's IMPOSIBLE for anyone to be saved with out getting rid of their sins and receiving the Holy Ghost!!

I DON'T care how you try to explain it, using a lot of words does not make it true!!

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

WHAT SHALL WE DO?????

What were they told to do??

If they didn't have to do nothing, Peter would have said YOUR GOOD TO GO AS YOU ARE!!!

Sad part is that is what you are says, they are good to go!!!

Their blood would be on your hands.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JimiSurvivor
Ouch said:
You don't understand, it's IMPOSIBLE for anyone to be saved with out getting rid of their sins and receiving the Holy Ghost!!

I DON'T care how you try to explain it, using a lot of words does not make it true!!

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

WHAT SHALL WE DO?????

What were they told to do??

If they didn't have to do nothing, Peter would have said YOUR GOOD TO GO AS YOU ARE!!!

Sad part is that is what you are says, they are good to go!!!

Their blood would be on your hands.
Click to expand...
Who do you think is pricking the heart if not the Holy Spirit? Faith is the result of hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Faith does not come by hearing the word of God. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing comes by the word of God.

Your formula:
Audible hearing of the gospel results in faith.

Biblical formula:
Word of God results in hearing.
Hearing results in faith.

Salvation occurs when the Spirit of God employs the word God to affect an individual's mind...when they heard, change one's heart...were pricked in their hearts, to affect one's will...what shall we do? All of this transpired internally before any activity took place, and always takes place before any activity. Only those who had this experience said what shall we do and repented and were baptized.

Salvation is a spiritual transaction that leads to physical reality. It is not a physical transaction that leads to spiritual reality. You present a form of godlessness but deny the power thereof.
 
Cameron143 said:
Who do you think is pricking the heart if not the Holy Spirit? Faith is the result of hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Faith does not come by hearing the word of God. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing comes by the word of God.

Your formula:
Audible hearing of the gospel results in faith.

Biblical formula:
Word of God results in hearing.
Hearing results in faith.

Salvation occurs when the Spirit of God employs the word God to affect an individual's mind...when they heard, change one's heart...were pricked in their hearts, to affect one's will...what shall we do? All of this transpired internally before any activity took place, and always takes place before any activity. Only those who had this experience said what shall we do and repented and were baptized.

Salvation is a spiritual transaction that leads to physical reality. It is not a physical transaction that leads to spiritual reality. You present a form of godlessness but deny the power thereof.
Click to expand...
When you want to tell stories back them up with HIS word.

For instance, I will say sins are remitted in the water.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

See how that works?

That way you can see what I am saying line us with HIS word.

If you want be to believe what comes out of your mouth prove it's true with HIS WORD.
 
Ouch said:
Everyone who will not accept HIS word goes to the thief!!

We need to righty divide the word.

When the thief on the cross died, he died OT laws. Where people had to take a sacrifice to the high priests ones a year to have their sins forgiven GOD RULES.

JESUS is our high priest and he became our sacrifice our lamb.
When JESUS was on this earth and forgave sins as he wished like the thief.

JESUS preach app 3 years, died on the cross, buried and rose again. Then he ascended to Heaven to put his blood on the mercy seat.

Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

He then returned to earth and was here app 40 days and ascended again commanding his disciples to wait because they will be filled with the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:3-4

He ascended the second time and this was the first message of how to be reborn.
Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Since then until he returns again, we live in NT laws and how to be saved we need to repent, get baptized in JESUS name to get rid of our sins and receive the Holy Ghost like JESUS gave his disciples in Acts 2:4.
Click to expand...


The hearing part of your brain is only half working.
You do not hear what is being said....
You argue with half a thought only.

IGNORE! bye.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mailmandan
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back