The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[Undergrace1]

Scripture does not contradict itself. All of it was written by God, all of it, to include Paul's writings. You would make of yourself an authority over Scripture regarding things spiritual, instead of Scripture being an authority over you regarding things spiritual. Unless you can accept all of it as being God's one integrated word, you have no business trying to teach anyone with your prejudiced version of its message and doctrine.

Im always wary when I hear people say the gospels are sacrosanct and what follows them cannot always be relied on, if they are believed(mistakenly) to contradict the words of Jesus. Jesus himself said what he taught in the gospels could be understood without the indwelling Holy Spirit guiding people into truth. What the apostles much taught could not be, for they had received the indwelling Holy Spirit and wrote to those who had also received the Spirit

 

[Inquisitor]

you know what happens, not good, we are not supposed to follow the world's trends, guess who creates these to corrupts us?

I am still trying to find out if anyone obeys the four essential instructions given to the Gentiles
by the Jerusalem Council (Acts 15)?

Let alone trying to obey the ten words SPOKEN and not written by the finger of God at Mt Sinai,

Exodus 20:1 Then God spoke all these words, saying.

The Ten Words were inside the shadow ark of the covenant but so was Aarons rod that budded.
What has the golden jar containing manna got to do with anything important? Why place emphasis
on the location in that shadow ark of the covenant? Why does that matter?

I am a Gentile and I am a New Covenant Gentile not a member of an old covenant sprinkled with
the blood of a bull. The New Covenant fulfilled that old covenant. The blood of Jesus is an eternal
covenant. With an eternal law based in the Holy Spirit and poured into our hearts.

Some how do you have a two covenant theology when one has fulfilled the other?

 

[Dino246]

We are to do what is right by faith, which is righteousness by faith.

Um, no. That's righteousness by works. If your righteousness depends on what you do, then it is not by faith.

 

[vassal]

I am still trying to find out if anyone obeys the four essential instructions given to the Gentiles
by the Jerusalem Council (Acts 15)?

Let alone trying to obey the ten words SPOKEN and not written by the finger of God at Mt Sinai,

Exodus 20:1 Then God spoke all these words, saying.

The Ten Words were inside the shadow ark of the covenant but so was Aarons rod that budded.
What has the golden jar containing manna got to do with anything important? Why place emphasis
on the location in that shadow ark of the covenant? Why does that matter?

I am a Gentile and I am a New Covenant Gentile not a member of an old covenant sprinkled with
the blood of a bull. The New Covenant fulfilled that old covenant. The blood of Jesus is an eternal
covenant. With an eternal law based in the Holy Spirit and poured into our hearts.

Some how do you have a two covenant theology when one has fulfilled the other?

Inquisitor, the four instructions of Acts 15 were never meant to replace the commandments of God. They were the starting point for new Gentile believers who were coming out of idol worship of that time. James himself explains this very clearly. After giving the four instructions, he adds that Moses is read in the synagogues every Sabbath. This means the Gentiles would learn the rest of God’s ways as they continued to hear His word. The four points were the first steps, not the whole life of obedience.
About the Ten Words spoken by God at Sinai, these were not just written on stone. They were spoken by God Himself to the whole nation. Jesus teaches us to keep them if we want to enter into life. He says, If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments in Matthew 19:17. And He says, If ye love me, keep my commandments in John 14:15. So the Ten Words still matter because Jesus kept them, taught them and told us to keep them the proper way with love.

Inside the ark, the staff of Aaron and the jar of manna were not random items. They were signs. The manna was the sign that God feeds His people every day. The staff that budded was the sign that God chooses His priesthood and gives life. These were not more important than the commandments, but they helped Israel remember what God had done. The location inside the ark was not the focus. The meaning was.

You say you are a Gentile under the New Covenant, and that is true. But the New Covenant does not erase the old commandments. It writes them into the heart. In Jeremiah 31, God says He will put His law inside us, not remove or change His law from us. The blood of Jesus seals this promise and makes us His people not by removing obedience, but by giving us the Spirit to help us walk in it.
There are not two covenants working side by side. The New Covenant fulfills what the old one pointed to. The heart of stone changes into a heart of flesh. The place where the commandment is written changes. But love for God still shows itself in obedience just like Jesus taught.
So the true question is not whether the covenant changed the commandments. The true question is whether we will let God write His ways into our heart and follow His Son, who showed us how to walk in them with grace and truth.

 

[Undergrace1]

Inquisitor, the four instructions of Acts 15 were never meant to replace the commandments of God. They were the starting point for new Gentile believers who were coming out of idol worship of that time. James himself explains this very clearly. After giving the four instructions, he adds that Moses is read in the synagogues every Sabbath. This means the Gentiles would learn the rest of God’s ways as they continued to hear His word. The four points were the first steps, not the whole life of obedience.
.

Not true, years later the leaders of the church confirmed to Paul they were STILL only asking gentiles to follow the same four laws, none had been added(Acts21:25)
And you cannot have a starting point where obeying God's laws are concerned. God's laws are not arbitary, you cannot pick and choose which applicable law you follow and which you ignore, you cannot pick and choose whether you commit sin or not

 

[Inquisitor]

Inquisitor, the four instructions of Acts 15 were never meant to replace the commandments of God. They were the starting point for new Gentile believers who were coming out of idol worship of that time. James himself explains this very clearly. After giving the four instructions, he adds that Moses is read in the synagogues every Sabbath. This means the Gentiles would learn the rest of God’s ways as they continued to hear His word. The four points were the first steps, not the whole life of obedience.
About the Ten Words spoken by God at Sinai, these were not just written on stone. They were spoken by God Himself to the whole nation. Jesus teaches us to keep them if we want to enter into life. He says, If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments in Matthew 19:17. And He says, If ye love me, keep my commandments in John 14:15. So the Ten Words still matter because Jesus kept them, taught them and told us to keep them the proper way with love.

Inside the ark, the staff of Aaron and the jar of manna were not random items. They were signs. The manna was the sign that God feeds His people every day. The staff that budded was the sign that God chooses His priesthood and gives life. These were not more important than the commandments, but they helped Israel remember what God had done. The location inside the ark was not the focus. The meaning was.

You say you are a Gentile under the New Covenant, and that is true. But the New Covenant does not erase the old commandments. It writes them into the heart. In Jeremiah 31, God says He will put His law inside us, not remove or change His law from us. The blood of Jesus seals this promise and makes us His people not by removing obedience, but by giving us the Spirit to help us walk in it.
There are not two covenants working side by side. The New Covenant fulfills what the old one pointed to. The heart of stone changes into a heart of flesh. The place where the commandment is written changes. But love for God still shows itself in obedience just like Jesus taught.
So the true question is not whether the covenant changed the commandments. The true question is whether we will let God write His ways into our heart and follow His Son, who showed us how to walk in them with grace and truth.

So what happened to the two greatest commandments and were they fulfilled by Jesus?

If you love me, keep my commandments in John 14:15.

Which commandments because there are so many commandments in the N.T?

Are the commandments the two greatest commandments that Jesus fulfilled.

1 John 3:21-22
Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; and whatever we ask
we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing
in His sight.

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another,
just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him.
We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Sure looks like you have the wrong set of commandments.

 

[Inquisitor]

Inquisitor, the four instructions of Acts 15 were never meant to replace the commandments of God. They were the starting point for new Gentile believers who were coming out of idol worship of that time. James himself explains this very clearly. After giving the four instructions, he adds that Moses is read in the synagogues every Sabbath. This means the Gentiles would learn the rest of God’s ways as they continued to hear His word. The four points were the first steps, not the whole life of obedience.
About the Ten Words spoken by God at Sinai, these were not just written on stone. They were spoken by God Himself to the whole nation. Jesus teaches us to keep them if we want to enter into life. He says, If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments in Matthew 19:17. And He says, If ye love me, keep my commandments in John 14:15. So the Ten Words still matter because Jesus kept them, taught them and told us to keep them the proper way with love.

Inside the ark, the staff of Aaron and the jar of manna were not random items. They were signs. The manna was the sign that God feeds His people every day. The staff that budded was the sign that God chooses His priesthood and gives life. These were not more important than the commandments, but they helped Israel remember what God had done. The location inside the ark was not the focus. The meaning was.

You say you are a Gentile under the New Covenant, and that is true. But the New Covenant does not erase the old commandments. It writes them into the heart. In Jeremiah 31, God says He will put His law inside us, not remove or change His law from us. The blood of Jesus seals this promise and makes us His people not by removing obedience, but by giving us the Spirit to help us walk in it.
There are not two covenants working side by side. The New Covenant fulfills what the old one pointed to. The heart of stone changes into a heart of flesh. The place where the commandment is written changes. But love for God still shows itself in obedience just like Jesus taught.
So the true question is not whether the covenant changed the commandments. The true question is whether we will let God write His ways into our heart and follow His Son, who showed us how to walk in them with grace and truth.

The four instructions in Acts 15:20, 29 (abstaining from food sacrificed to idols, sexual immorality,
things strangled, and blood) are generally understood by scholars to be a direct application of
the Noahide Laws, often specifically relating to the Holiness Code found in Leviticus 17-18.
These laws were believed in Second Temple Judaism to be binding on all humanity (not just Jews)
as established in the covenant with Noah.

If the Gentiles were not covenant members of the old covenant then they are automatically
under the law of Noah anyway. How could the apostles be wrong?

The only thing that a Gentile would learn in a synagogue is Judaism.

What possible use would a knowledge of Judaism be to a Gentile.

You are inferring so much when you read the scripture.

 

[vassal]

The four instructions in Acts 15:20, 29 (abstaining from food sacrificed to idols, sexual immorality,
things strangled, and blood) are generally understood by scholars to be a direct application of
the Noahide Laws, often specifically relating to the Holiness Code found in Leviticus 17-18.
These laws were believed in Second Temple Judaism to be binding on all humanity (not just Jews)
as established in the covenant with Noah.

If the Gentiles were not covenant members of the old covenant then they are automatically
under the law of Noah anyway. How could the apostles be wrong?

The only thing that a Gentile would learn in a synagogue is Judaism.

What possible use would a knowledge of Judaism be to a Gentile.

You are inferring so much when you read the scripture.

you like others invent things I never said.
you forget that gentiles were not alone, the early church, apostles did not push Judaism, they taught everything Jesus did and said, Paul' ministry was also similar but the emphasis was important, the name of Jesus the cross and what it represented:salivation. Gentiles followed the apostles and their companions they could in some places go to a synagogue and learn more, if they wanted however they knew then what to do and it was made clear to them that the law of Moses ( except the 4 items mentioned by the Jerusalem council) was for the most part no longer applicable and no longer necessary since the Holy spirit was available, the comforter that teaches and guided God's people either Jews or Gentiles.

 

[mailmandan]

Um, no. That's righteousness by works. If your righteousness depends on what you do, then it is not by faith.

That sounds similar to the Mormon gospel. In the book of Mormon in 2 Nephi 25:23, we read - “For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.”

In other words, do all you can or else the Lord will not be able to save you, which is righteousness by works.

 

[Undergrace1]

you like others invent things I never said.
you forget that gentiles were not alone, the early church, apostles did not push Judaism, they taught everything Jesus did and said, Paul' ministry was also similar but the emphasis was important, the name of Jesus the cross and what it represented:salivation. Gentiles followed the apostles and their companions they could in some places go to a synagogue and learn more, if they wanted however they knew then what to do and it was made clear to them that the law of Moses ( except the 4 items mentioned by the Jerusalem council) was for the most part no longer applicable and no longer necessary since the Holy spirit was available, the comforter that teaches and guided God's people either Jews or Gentiles.

Im hoping you can help sabbath blessings out(hoping) When did the new covenant begin, at the death or resurrection of Christ?

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Im hoping you can help sabbath blessings out(hoping) When did the new covenant begin, at the death or resurrection of Christ?

The argument is when the covenant is ratified. By what the Bible says, or what we feel.

Heb 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

 

[Undergrace1]

The argument is when the covenant is ratified.

I am placing you on ignore, for in both websites you completely ignore what you are shown from scripture, which makes it pointless debating with you, and when you have no answer to what is placed before you, you accuse people of making insults. Goodbye

 

[vassal]

I am placing you on ignore, for in both websites you completely ignore what you are shown from scripture, which makes it pointless debating with you, and when you have no answer to what is placed before you, you accuse people of making insults. Goodbye

What is your version?

 

[Undergrace1]

What is your version?

I asked you

 

[Inquisitor]

you like others invent things I never said.
you forget that gentiles were not alone, the early church, apostles did not push Judaism, they taught everything Jesus did and said, Paul' ministry was also similar but the emphasis was important, the name of Jesus the cross and what it represented:salivation. Gentiles followed the apostles and their companions they could in some places go to a synagogue and learn more, if they wanted however they knew then what to do and it was made clear to them that the law of Moses ( except the 4 items mentioned by the Jerusalem council) was for the most part no longer applicable and no longer necessary since the Holy spirit was available, the comforter that teaches and guided God's people either Jews or Gentiles.

Good reply.

One correction though the law of Moses was never applicable or binding.

I knew you were wondering whether Paul taught the churches the four essential rules.

Here is the question I asked.

Scripture only. There were four essentials rules given to the Gentiles in Acts 15. Do we find these
four essentials in Paul's letters to the churches? What date was the council of Jerusalem in Act 15?
What date was each letter where one or more of the four essentials rules appears?

Here is how AI handled this topic.

1. The four essentials given to Gentiles

Acts 15:28–29

“For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:
(1) to abstain from things sacrificed to idols,
(2) from blood,
(3) from things strangled,
(4) and from sexual immorality;
if you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.”​

2. Do these appear in Paul’s letters? (Scripture only)
A. Idolatry / things sacrificed to idols

• 1 Corinthians 8:1–13
• 1 Corinthians 10:14–22
• 2 Corinthians 6:16
• Galatians 4:8
• 1 Thessalonians 1:9

B. Sexual immorality

• 1 Corinthians 5:1
• 1 Corinthians 6:13–20
• 1 Corinthians 7:2
• 2 Corinthians 12:21
• Galatians 5:19
• 1 Thessalonians 4:3–7

C. Blood / strangled

• No explicit command repeated verbatim in Paul’s letters.

(However, Paul affirms love-governed abstention where conscience and fellowship are at stake

• Romans 14:14–21
• 1 Corinthians 10:23–33

3. Date of the Jerusalem Council (Acts 15)

• c. AD 48–49

(Relative scriptural markers: Acts 15, Galatians 2:1–10)

4. Dates of Paul’s letters where the essentials appear

Letter Approx. Date Essentials Present (Scripture)

Galatians AD 48–49 Idolatry (4:8), Sexual immorality (5:19)
1 Thessalonians AD 50–51 Sexual immorality (4:3–7), Idolatry (1:9)
1 Corinthians AD 54–55 Idolatry (8; 10), Sexual immorality (5–6)
2 Corinthians AD 55–56 Idolatry (6:16), Sexual immorality (12:21)
Romans AD 57 Love-governed abstention (14:14–21)

5. Summary (Scripture pattern)

• Sexual immorality → explicitly reaffirmed repeatedly
• Idolatry → explicitly reaffirmed repeatedly
• Blood / strangled → not restated as law; handled under love, conscience, and fellowship
• Authority → “It seemed good to the Holy Spirit” (Acts 15:28)

Romans 13:8–10
“He who loves another has fulfilled the law.”​

 

[Inquisitor]

Inquisitor, the four instructions of Acts 15 were never meant to replace the commandments of God. They were the starting point for new Gentile believers who were coming out of idol worship of that time. James himself explains this very clearly. After giving the four instructions, he adds that Moses is read in the synagogues every Sabbath. This means the Gentiles would learn the rest of God’s ways as they continued to hear His word. The four points were the first steps, not the whole life of obedience.
About the Ten Words spoken by God at Sinai, these were not just written on stone. They were spoken by God Himself to the whole nation. Jesus teaches us to keep them if we want to enter into life. He says, If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments in Matthew 19:17. And He says, If ye love me, keep my commandments in John 14:15. So the Ten Words still matter because Jesus kept them, taught them and told us to keep them the proper way with love.

Inside the ark, the staff of Aaron and the jar of manna were not random items. They were signs. The manna was the sign that God feeds His people every day. The staff that budded was the sign that God chooses His priesthood and gives life. These were not more important than the commandments, but they helped Israel remember what God had done. The location inside the ark was not the focus. The meaning was.

You say you are a Gentile under the New Covenant, and that is true. But the New Covenant does not erase the old commandments. It writes them into the heart. In Jeremiah 31, God says He will put His law inside us, not remove or change His law from us. The blood of Jesus seals this promise and makes us His people not by removing obedience, but by giving us the Spirit to help us walk in it.
There are not two covenants working side by side. The New Covenant fulfills what the old one pointed to. The heart of stone changes into a heart of flesh. The place where the commandment is written changes. But love for God still shows itself in obedience just like Jesus taught.
So the true question is not whether the covenant changed the commandments. The true question is whether we will let God write His ways into our heart and follow His Son, who showed us how to walk in them with grace and truth.

Is food still offered to other Gods then eaten in the modern age?

Here are some of the most prominent cultures and traditions that practice this:

• Hinduism (India, Nepal, Bali): Perhaps the most widespread, this practice is known as Naivedya (offering) or Prasada (blessed food). Devotees place food before an image or altar of a deity, often chanting mantras to invite the divine to accept it. The food is then considered blessed and eaten with reverence. In many homes, this is done daily before lunch or dinner.
• 
  
• Tibetan Buddhism: A Tsok offering involves dedicating food, drink, and other substances to deities, which is later consumed by practitioners to "gather" merit and blessings.
• 
  
• Philippines (Indigenous & Folk Catholicism): The Atang is a ritual, particularly in the Ilocano tradition, where food is offered to spirits or the deceased to appease them or ask for protection. It is common to offer the first bite or a portion of the food before eating.
• 
  
• China/Taiwan/Vietnam: In ancestor worship and traditional folk religion, food is placed on family altars or at shrines to honor gods and ancestors. While some traditions involve leaving the food, others allow the food to be eaten by the family after it has been "enjoyed" by the spirits.
• 
  
• Ancient Greek and Roman Traditions: Historical records show that Greeks would offer aparchai (first-fruits) or portions of their meals to the gods, a practice often accompanied by pouring libations (wine or water).
• 
  
• Japanese Shinto/Buddhist Traditions: Before eating, it is customary in many households to say Itadakimasu ("I humbly receive"), which is a gesture of gratitude for the life of the plants/animals, the preparer, and the divine.

Key Aspects of the Ritual:

• Purpose: To thank the creator, reduce personal ego, and purify the food.
• Prasadam: In Hinduism, once food is offered, it becomes Prasadam (grace), which is believed to nourish the soul as well as the body.
• Timing: Often, the offering is made before anyone else eats, ensuring the divine is honored first.

The big question then follows; how widespread was food offered to other Gods in the first century?

 

[TMS]

It comes down to those that follow or obey the COMMANDMENTS OF GOD and those that don't..
They don't because they follow the commandments of man or because they think God's commandments no longer apply or are changed today.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

....they that Keep the commandments of God. ....Do His commandments.

Psa 119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

Rom 13:10 .... therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Psa 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

 

[Undergrace1]

Those who say: ‘’You must obey the TC’’ do not have an inner conviction of what is fully entailed in obeying those commands. Fine. The problem is, when they tell people who do have such an inner conviction: ‘’You must obey the TC’’ They then get crushed, broken, oppressed, and downtrodden. And sadly, many give up with the faith and walk away, believing they could not be worthy enough for God, they are not able to live the life they assume others are.
But I’m sure those who do insist you must obey the TC are not concerned by what I have written, they wouldn’t understand it

 

[Undergrace1]

It comes down to those that follow or obey the COMMANDMENTS OF GOD and those that don't..

Well as you transgress the TC, will you not inherit eternal life? Or does that only apply to others?

 

[Undergrace1]

I wonder, how many who say you must obey the TC do the following:
Every time they dwell on any impure thought do they get down on their knees and ask God’s forgiveness because the righteous obey the TC?
Every time they desire anything of their neighbours whether material goods or a member of their household, do they get down on their knees and ask God’s forgiveness because the righteous obey the TC
Every time they tell even a little fib about another, do they get down on their knees and ask God’s forgiveness for the righteous obey the TC
Every time they erect any graven image in their mind do they get down on their knees and ask God’s forgiveness for the righteous obey the TC
Every time they desire, in their thoughts anyone apart from their spouse, do they get down on their knees and ask God’s forgiveness for the righteous obey the TC
Every time they fail to obey the commandment in their desires/thoughts/what goes on, on the inside of man, do they get down on their knees and ask God’s forgiveness because the righteous obey the TC?
I wonder