Loss of salvation???

[memberofthebride]

What do YOU believe the gospel IS and also what do YOU believe it means to BELIEVE the gospel?

Comment:

Christ came preaching the Good News of the coming Kingdom of God, the world ruling Government of God that will finally bring peace to the world with the KING of Kings ruling from the Throne of David.

Satan and all his demons --"believe" Jesus Christ is their maker, IS GOD.

Belief alone is nothing -- acting on that belief is required.

If a person will not allow Jesus Christ to direct their life, if a person refuses to obey and follow that ONE PERFECT WAY, they will not be in the KINGDOM of God.

27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [them] before me.

 

[mailmandan]

Comment:

Christ came preaching the Good News of the coming Kingdom of God, the world ruling Government of God that will finally bring peace to the world with the KING of Kings ruling from the Throne of David.

Satan and all his demons --"believe" Jesus Christ is their maker, IS GOD.

Belief alone is nothing -- acting on that belief is required.

If a person will not allow Jesus Christ to direct their life, if a person refuses to obey and follow that ONE PERFECT WAY, they will not be in the KINGDOM of God.

27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [them] before me.

So, the gospel according to you is salvation by works? The right kind of belief is everything (John 3:18) and acting on that belief is works. Don't conflate faith and works. (Ephesians 2:8-10) Now in James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, the demons do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance are in Satan (and not in Jesus) as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. See the difference?

 

[Musicmaster]

Blessedly, the body of Christ isn't destined for that Millennial Kingdom nor the New Earth. Our dwelling will be in Heavenly places rather than the New Earth. Those who think they will be on this earth for the Millennial Kingdom are only those who pass through the tribulation. Those who WANT to stay here for that, go for it.

Unfortunately, far too many people miss the fact that holy angles are also referred to as "saints" in the scriptures. The body of Christ is not designated as any for of army in Heaven. Angels are the only beings who fight wars in the Heavenlies.

MM

 

[Ouch]

Amazing how you can take things completely out of context to justify your error.

Why don't you show me where baptism is talked about in John 3? You don't seem to be able to tell the difference between baptism and regeneration. You don't even seem to understand what regeneration is.

What was untrue? That the Spirit gives birth to spirit?


Just how many spiritual births do you need? John 3 is talking about being born spiritually. You want two spiritual births, water and Spirit?

The problem isn't that what I said was untrue, the problem is you have no idea what John 3 is talking about or why.

Nicodemus is a religious type and a leading teacher of the Law which is why Jesus is telling him he needs to be born from above if he is ever going to understand the Kingdom of God and teach others with true spiritual understanding.

I'd go into more detail but honestly? I think it would be a waste of my time on you. You're not really interested in learning as much as you like to make the claim.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Why would anyone think it's anything else besides baptism?

JESUS was talking to a old man right, so why would he think that old man wasn't already born naturally?

Now to HIS word just after he said WATER, John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

SO WHY DOES JESUS HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH BAPTIZING PEOPLE???



Now let's look people who have been REBORN OF THE WATER AND OF THE SPIRIT.

Acts 2:37-41
King James Version
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

YOU DO NOT GLADLY RECEIVE HIS WORD!!!

Acts 10:44-48
King James Version
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.


Acts 19
King James Version
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

IN EVERY CASE, BOTH WATER AND SPIRIT!!! EVERY CASE!!!



So why do I think JESUS is talking about baptism in John 3:5?

Question is why would anyone think he is talking about being born naturally?

2 Corinthians 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.


Since you don't answer any other questions, SHOW ME WHERE JESUS IS TALKING ABOUT NATURAL BIRTH IS A REQUIREMENT TO BEING SAVED.

Can you answer that ONE???

 

[memberofthebride]

So, the gospel according to you is salvation by works? The right kind of belief is everything (John 3:18) and acting on that belief is works. Don't conflate faith and works. (Ephesians 2:8-10) Now in James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, the demons do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance are in Satan (and not in Jesus) as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. See the difference?

comment;

Why must you confuse Works and obedience??

I fully and completely understand there is not one thing I can do to "earn" eternal life! It is a free gift!

Did not Jesus Christ obey??
Did He not DO completely and perfectly His Father's will?
Did He earn eternal life because He obeyed His Father in ALL THINGS? absolutely NOT!

BUT if He had not obeyed --- He could not be our offering for sin.

Christ repeatedly said to Follow HIM -- in to what -- disobedience??

just mouths some words and that its???

that is NOT what Jesus Christ taught and you know it.
Logic --- if you owned a company, would you hire people that would not do what you hired them to do?

Why would you expect the Father to bring billions into HIS FAMILY without knowing for certain that they will live by HIS laws and not go the way of Satan? not cause what we on this earth are living through right now LAWLESSNESS.

Every man and women of God In the Old Testament was tried and tested -- but you are fine just as you are???

its nice that Abraham was commanded to offer HIS ONLY son as a sacrifice. but we today no longer need to be tested to see if we are WILLING to Obey???

Sorry, I will obey my LORD and Master, it is my duty as His servant.
I realize the majority of folks on this blog follow Paul.
It is hard for me to understand how many reject the words of the SON OF GOD.

 

[Musicmaster]

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

There are some who have some sort of disconnect in their understanding for the teachings and actions of Christ in relation to what actually applies to us today. Not everything He taught and did applies to us, and the failure of some to recognize that by rightly dividing the word of truth serves only to lead them into the error of works-based orientation on the topic of salvation, which also is evidenced in the idea that one must retain salvation by way of "endurance." TULIP is a doctrine Satan loves for people to believe in, and this replacement theology thing some are fixated upon is also evidence for a misled system of theology.

MM

 

[Ouch]

comment;

Why must you confuse Works and obedience??

I fully and completely understand there is not one thing I can do to "earn" eternal life! It is a free gift!

Did not Jesus Christ obey??
Did He not DO completely and perfectly His Father's will?
Did He earn eternal life because He obeyed His Father in ALL THINGS? absolutely NOT!

BUT if He had not obeyed --- He could not be our offering for sin.

Christ repeatedly said to Follow HIM -- in to what -- disobedience??

just mouths some words and that its???

that is NOT what Jesus Christ taught and you know it.
Logic --- if you owned a company, would you hire people that would not do what you hired them to do?

Why would you expect the Father to bring billions into HIS FAMILY without knowing for certain that they will live by HIS laws and not go the way of Satan? not cause what we on this earth are living through right now LAWLESSNESS.

Every man and women of God In the Old Testament was tried and tested -- but you are fine just as you are???

its nice that Abraham was commanded to offer HIS ONLY son as a sacrifice. but we today no longer need to be tested to see if we are WILLING to Obey???

Sorry, I will obey my LORD and Master, it is my duty as His servant.
I realize the majority of folks on this blog follow Paul.
It is hard for me to understand how many reject the words of the SON OF GOD.

Don't mean to be rude jumping in, but wanted to share something with you becaues I agree majority of people on this blog follow Paul along with so many on facebook.

I started this thread, in stead of sending you to it I just added it.

(((FOUNDATION, the 12 apostles or Pauls?)))

Eternity is a long time, we better make sure we are following JESUS and HIS word, going down the straight and narrow path.

Do we jump over the book of Acts because it's a transitional book as so so many claim, ignoring it and go right to Paul’s letters? Or, accept the book of Acts because it is the FOUNDATION and not a transitional book?

The foundation of the book of Acts is believe in JESUS, repent, water baptism in JESUS name and need to receive the Holy Ghost to be reborn. Acts 2:38.

Following the same path that JESUS and HIS disciple took along with Paul before he started his ministry.

OR, is the book of Acts a transitional book and we are saved by grace and or faith ALONE?

Below you will see GOD'S words not anyone's opinion or personal interpretation of HIS word.

Why didn't Paul mention the need to be water baptized or receive the Holy Ghost to be saved?

Many do not understand and the outcome is going to be devastating.

Nowhere after the book of Acts will you see specific instructions on the how to be reborn or saved, NO WHERE why?

ALL OF Paul's letters WERE NOT written to the unsaved, but to the saved or reborn.

After the book of Acts in Paul's letters he was giving instructions about how to live, what to do as Christians to reach the lost, what happens in water baptism, and things about the Holy Ghost. Off the milk and on the MEAT.

Through Paul’s travels he heard different problems in the churches and was addressing the problems in each of his letters.

His letters included both CORRECTION and PRAISE.

If you were there to hear the instructions Paul gave that birthed churches it would be the same message as the rest of JESUS disciples. See Acts 19 it shows what Paul told the people to do.

Paul did NOT have his own gospel. Notice how he introduces himself PAUL AN APOSTLE OF JESUS CHRIST.

Look who the letters are addressed to,

1 Corinthians,
1 Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

2 Corinthians,
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

Romans,
1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Galatians,
1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:

Ephesians,
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Philippians,
1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

Colossians,
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother,
2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians,
1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians,
1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:


All letters after the book of Thessalonians had nothing to with Paul’s ministry to churches.


Back to Paul

Proof Paul followed JESUS along with the rest of JESUS disciples is seen in what happened in the beginning stages of when he started the church of Ephesus Acts 19. For some reason Paul questioned whether the 12 disciples had the Holy Ghost yet. He found out the men did not know what happened at Pentecost. He told them about JESUS and they got baptized. And after Paul laid hands on them they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 19,
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
7 And all the men were about twelve.
8 And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.
9 But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.
10 And this continued by the space of two years; so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.

After Paul baptized those folk, and they received the Holy Ghost he stayed there for 2-3 years building the church of Jews and Gentiles.

If anyone debates Paul preached a different message, it's HIS word your debating not with me.

I bet there will be a lot of people who share Paul's letters trying to prove Paul said we are saved by grace or faith alone using Paul letters and debate HIS word.

BEFORE you do, read from the top with an open heart and look , Paul an apostle of Jesus Christ and each and every letter is to a church, not the unsaved.

We CAN'T debate HIS word, it says what it say and means what it means.

 

[memberofthebride]

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

There are some who have some sort of disconnect in their understanding for the teachings and actions of Christ in relation to what actually applies to us today. Not everything He taught and did applies to us, and the failure of some to recognize that by rightly dividing the word of truth serves only to lead them into the error of works-based orientation on the topic of salvation, which also is evidenced in the idea that one must retain salvation by way of "endurance." TULIP is a doctrine Satan loves for people to believe in, and this replacement theology thing some are fixated upon is also evidence for a misled system of theology.

MM

comment;

""Not everything He taught and did applies to us,""?????????????

Are you saying Christ did not come to save every last man, women and child that has or will ever be born??

If that were true, then your statement above could "possibly" be true. but that is what you are saying.

then show where it is explained "The Words of GOD", Jesus Christ, are only meant for some folks but not all?
That HIS WORDS ARE NOT "THE WORDS OF LIFE" for mankind?
That they are NOT TRUTH - eternal TRUTH, the one and only TRUTH?

What a can of worms you are opening ---

 

[memberofthebride]

Don't mean to be rude jumping in, but wanted to share something with you becaues I agree majority of people on this blog follow Paul along with so many on facebook.

I started this thread, in stead of sending you to it I just added it.

(((FOUNDATION, the 12 apostles or Pauls?)))

Eternity is a long time, we better make sure we are following JESUS and HIS word, going down the straight and narrow path.

Do we jump over the book of Acts because it's a transitional book as so so many claim, ignoring it and go right to Paul’s letters? Or, accept the book of Acts because it is the FOUNDATION and not a transitional book?

The foundation of the book of Acts is believe in JESUS, repent, water baptism in JESUS name and need to receive the Holy Ghost to be reborn. Acts 2:38.

Following the same path that JESUS and HIS disciple took along with Paul before he started his ministry.

OR, is the book of Acts a transitional book and we are saved by grace and or faith ALONE?

Below you will see GOD'S words not anyone's opinion or personal interpretation of HIS word.

Why didn't Paul mention the need to be water baptized or receive the Holy Ghost to be saved?

Many do not understand and the outcome is going to be devastating.

Nowhere after the book of Acts will you see specific instructions on the how to be reborn or saved, NO WHERE why?

ALL OF Paul's letters WERE NOT written to the unsaved, but to the saved or reborn.

After the book of Acts in Paul's letters he was giving instructions about how to live, what to do as Christians to reach the lost, what happens in water baptism, and things about the Holy Ghost. Off the milk and on the MEAT.

Through Paul’s travels he heard different problems in the churches and was addressing the problems in each of his letters.

His letters included both CORRECTION and PRAISE.

If you were there to hear the instructions Paul gave that birthed churches it would be the same message as the rest of JESUS disciples. See Acts 19 it shows what Paul told the people to do.

Paul did NOT have his own gospel. Notice how he introduces himself PAUL AN APOSTLE OF JESUS CHRIST.

Look who the letters are addressed to,

1 Corinthians,
1 Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

2 Corinthians,
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

Romans,
1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Galatians,
1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:

Ephesians,
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Philippians,
1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

Colossians,
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother,
2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians,
1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians,
1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:


All letters after the book of Thessalonians had nothing to with Paul’s ministry to churches.


Back to Paul

Proof Paul followed JESUS along with the rest of JESUS disciples is seen in what happened in the beginning stages of when he started the church of Ephesus Acts 19. For some reason Paul questioned whether the 12 disciples had the Holy Ghost yet. He found out the men did not know what happened at Pentecost. He told them about JESUS and they got baptized. And after Paul laid hands on them they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 19,
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
7 And all the men were about twelve.
8 And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.
9 But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.
10 And this continued by the space of two years; so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.

After Paul baptized those folk, and they received the Holy Ghost he stayed there for 2-3 years building the church of Jews and Gentiles.

If anyone debates Paul preached a different message, it's HIS word your debating not with me.

I bet there will be a lot of people who share Paul's letters trying to prove Paul said we are saved by grace or faith alone using Paul letters and debate HIS word.

BEFORE you do, read from the top with an open heart and look , Paul an apostle of Jesus Christ and each and every letter is to a church, not the unsaved.

We CAN'T debate HIS word, it says what it say and means what it means.

Comment;

there are a few brave men coming forth, showing Paul's words have been very misunderstood.
that Paul was and is a JEW and a Torah scholar and that he lived by and taught torah observances.

one of the misunderstanding that caused problems -- Jews trying to force gentile into circumcision and other Proofs of being in the Covenant. Circumcision is a work of the law, there are others.

I can attach at least two men if you like,, do not know what churches but both very articulate.

 

[Musicmaster]

comment;

""Not everything He taught and did applies to us,""?????????????

Are you saying Christ did not come to save every last man, women and child that has or will ever be born??

No. That's not what I said. I clearly stated that not everything Jesus said relates to us today. When He told the healed leper to go an doffer up the sacrifice according to the Mosaic Law, that doesn't at all apply to us today, which strikes at the grandiose, broad brush stroke claims that everything Jesus taught and commanded carries over to us today. He died for all mankind, but not all mankind is willing to place their faith in Him for His salvation to be realized in their lives. He does the saving and leaves the faith, or lack thereof, up to each individual.

then show where it is explained "The Words of GOD", Jesus Christ, are only meant for some folks but not all?

Matthew 8:2-4
2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
3 And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.
4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

That clearly is not for us today, just as being water baptized is not for us today for the remission of sins as Peter commanded Israel in Acts 2. Again, rightly dividing the word of truth...not truth from falsehood, but truth from truth that does not apply to us today.

That HIS WORDS ARE NOT "THE WORDS OF LIFE" for mankind?
That they are NOT TRUTH - eternal TRUTH, the one and only TRUTH?

What a can of worms you are opening ---

You're the only one holding a can of worms here. Many others here understand what scripture teaches in the clarity of its declarations within. You either believe and accept the instructions Paul was given to convey to us today, or you do not. I really don't give a rip what you believe or do. Your freedoms are not what I'm here to try and subvert, but when you try to assert your warps and twists on the basis of mere questions that do point to assumptions you harbor, you're free to believe as you wish. However, when trying to twist and wrest scripture to your own ends, that's where you'll be met with resistance and calls to discuss the topics.

MM

 

[memberofthebride]

No. That's not what I said. I clearly stated that not everything Jesus said relates to us today. When He told the healed leper to go an doffer up the sacrifice according to the Mosaic Law, that doesn't at all apply to us today, which strikes at the grandiose, broad brush stroke claims that everything Jesus taught and commanded carries over to us today. He died for all mankind, but not all mankind is willing to place their faith in Him for His salvation to be realized in their lives. He does the saving and leaves the faith, or lack thereof, up to each individual.



Matthew 8:2-4
2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
3 And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.
4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

That clearly is not for us today, just as being water baptized is not for us today for the remission of sins as Peter commanded Israel in Acts 2. Again, rightly dividing the word of truth...not truth from falsehood, but truth from truth that does not apply to us today.



You're the only one holding a can of worms here. Many others here understand what scripture teaches in the clarity of its declarations within. You either believe and accept the instructions Paul was given to convey to us today, or you do not. I really don't give a rip what you believe or do. Your freedoms are not what I'm here to try and subvert, but when you try to assert your warps and twists on the basis of mere questions that do point to assumptions you harbor, you're free to believe as you wish. However, when trying to twist and wrest scripture to your own ends, that's where you'll be met with resistance and calls to discuss the topics.

MM

I do not accept what most believe Paul taught, that the Torah was abolished, that is not what Paul taught. or that water baptism is also abolished.

I refer to "christianity' as the 40,000 flavors of confusion.. so which ones or one of the 40,000 are or is correct?? or are any correct?? We will know soon

The 40,000 are THE MANY Christ said are lawless and they are proud of that fact.

 

[Ouch]

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

There are some who have some sort of disconnect in their understanding for the teachings and actions of Christ in relation to what actually applies to us today. Not everything He taught and did applies to us, and the failure of some to recognize that by rightly dividing the word of truth serves only to lead them into the error of works-based orientation on the topic of salvation, which also is evidenced in the idea that one must retain salvation by way of "endurance." TULIP is a doctrine Satan loves for people to believe in, and this replacement theology thing some are fixated upon is also evidence for a misled system of theology.

MM

What is sad is you having those who disagree with you on ignore.

I bet the problem was me asking you questions like, Have YOU received the Holy Ghost since you have believed like JESUS gave HIS disciples in Acts 2:4.

 

[memberofthebride]

No. That's not what I said. I clearly stated that not everything Jesus said relates to us today. When He told the healed leper to go an doffer up the sacrifice according to the Mosaic Law, that doesn't at all apply to us today, which strikes at the grandiose, broad brush stroke claims that everything Jesus taught and commanded carries over to us today. He died for all mankind, but not all mankind is willing to place their faith in Him for His salvation to be realized in their lives. He does the saving and leaves the faith, or lack thereof, up to each individual.



Matthew 8:2-4
2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
3 And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.
4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

That clearly is not for us today, just as being water baptized is not for us today for the remission of sins as Peter commanded Israel in Acts 2. Again, rightly dividing the word of truth...not truth from falsehood, but truth from truth that does not apply to us today.



You're the only one holding a can of worms here. Many others here understand what scripture teaches in the clarity of its declarations within. You either believe and accept the instructions Paul was given to convey to us today, or you do not. I really don't give a rip what you believe or do. Your freedoms are not what I'm here to try and subvert, but when you try to assert your warps and twists on the basis of mere questions that do point to assumptions you harbor, you're free to believe as you wish. However, when trying to twist and wrest scripture to your own ends, that's where you'll be met with resistance and calls to discuss the topics.

MM

Comment:

Act 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

23 And it shall come to pass, [that] every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

And the 40,000, with one voice shouted " no, we like what Paul says better"

 

[Musicmaster]

I do not accept what most believe Paul taught, that the Torah was abolished, that is not what Paul taught.

Nobody said Paul taught the Law to have been abolished. He stated that it's still in place, even to this very day. Paul taught that the ENMITY and the DEATH resulting from being under the Law is abolished, and that we are DEAD to the Law. In other words, the Law that's still in place to this very day and beyond is not something we are under today. Unbelievers are indeed under the Law, but not the body of Christ.

or that water baptism is also abolished.

Peter preached that water baptism to Israel and Israel alone, not to the Gentile churches Paul had planted. The Gospel of Grace, defined in 1 Cor. 15:1-4 lays down no requirement for water baptism for remission of sins. The remission of our sins for our salvation today is instantaneous on the basis of grace through faith.

That there are some who don't believe what Paul taught, that is of no consequence. They harbor those beliefs at the peril of their own stablishment and understanding of all that was and is inspired by God.

I refer to "christianity' as the 40,000 flavors of confusion.. so which ones or one of the 40,000 are or is correct?? or are any correct?? We will know soon

Only God is true. We ALL are liars by comparison, so that downgrade of all those "flavors" is meaningless. I subscribe to none of them. It's only the inspired word of God and Holy Spirit (1 John 2:27) that stands as the guiding post to the One of whom the scriptures speak.

The 40,000 are THE MANY Christ said are lawless and they are proud of that fact.

You are addressing a time when the Law was still in force for all to obey for their endurance unto salvation. Today, we are saved by grace through faith, not through the proving ground of faith through obedience to the Mosaic Law.

Being anti-Paul is nothing at all new. Feminists the world over hate him with a passion.

MM

 

[Ouch]

Comment;

there are a few brave men coming forth, showing Paul's words have been very misunderstood.
that Paul was and is a JEW and a Torah scholar and that he lived by and taught torah observances.

one of the misunderstanding that caused problems -- Jews trying to force gentile into circumcision and other Proofs of being in the Covenant. Circumcision is a work of the law, there are others.

I can attach at least two men if you like,, do not know what churches but both very articulate.

I think the biggest problem what people don't get, since Paul is speaking to establised churches you will not find one place where he tells anyone how to be reborn.

They take what he says to those have been reborn, off the milk and on to the meat and think it's to those who have never been reborn.

So they think the book of Acts no longer applies.

Fyi, the music so called master has me on ignore do to me debating which is the same debate your having with him.

Maybe you can get through to him?

 

[Musicmaster]

For the sake of the understanding of all as to what scripture says about the Law. This was written some years after the ascension of Christ and after Pentecost when Peter preached water baptism to Israel:

Hebews 8:7-13
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Notice the PRESENT TENSE when speaking of the old covenant of Law, in that it IS ready to pass away, written some years after Pentecost, not before nor during, but AFTER. Tense is so easily overlooked by those who teach falsehoods.

MM

 

[sawdust]

Why would anyone think it's anything else besides baptism?

Because there is no mention of baptism anywhere in the text, that's why. You see the word "water" and can't help but think baptism, you are programmed to think that way and refuse to think outside your programming.

Do you think this only applied to the Church? Everyone from Adam onwards had to be born from above if they were to understand the ways of the Lord. How do you think Enoch or Noah walked with God? How do you think Moses understood the kingdom of God. They had to be born of the Spirit to be made spiritually alive. It had nothing to do with water.

JESUS was talking to a old man right, so why would he think that old man wasn't already born naturally?

See, you don't understand why Jesus took Nicodemus' own thinking (being born physically) and turned it back on him. Nicodemus was an unbeliever. Jesus never mentioned being born of water as a requirement until Nicodemus mentioned physical birth. You don't think being born into this world is necessary for salvation? Can you show me all those people never born that God has saved?

SO WHY DOES JESUS HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH BAPTIZING PEOPLE???

He has everything to do with baptism, baptism with the Spirit. That is His baptism. John's baptism was with water, not Christ's. There could be an argument made while Israel (the nation) was still in the transition stage before judgement in 70AD, that water was still a legitimate form of baptism but it didn't bring people into the Church, it was a preparation for Israel to meet their long awaited Messiah. That was John's job.

Matthew 3:3
For this is the one referred to by Isaiah the prophet when he said, “The voice of one calling out in the wilderness, ‘Prepare the way of the Lord, Make His paths straight!’”

Now let's look people who have been REBORN OF THE WATER AND OF THE SPIRIT.

We are looking at people who, for the most part, were most likely already believers, we know for certain Cornelius was Acts 10:22, yet they needed to hear the Gospel for the Lord was doing a new work in building His Church.

So why do I think JESUS is talking about baptism in John 3:5?

I already told you why. You are programmed to think baptism when you see the word water. If you can't be transformed in your thinking, nothing I say will make a difference.

2 Corinthians 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

You think I am the only one here who says that Jesus is talking about physical and spiritual birth with the water and the Spirit?

Since you don't answer any other questions, SHOW ME WHERE JESUS IS TALKING ABOUT NATURAL BIRTH IS A REQUIREMENT TO BEING SAVED.

Can you answer that ONE???

I answer your questions, I don't answer them the way you want me to answer them so you think they are not answered. Try at least to be honest.

Jesus isn't talking about being saved in John 3. He is talking about being enabled to understand spiritual matters because He is speaking to a very prominent teacher of the Law who is an unbeliever. Jesus is distinguishing between a religious life and a spiritual life. The former born of intellect (water being it's representative), the latter born of God (a work of the Spirit).

Until you are prepared to lay your programming aside you will never fully appreciate what is going on in John 3:1-15

 

[Cameron143]

In John 3:3, Jesus says unless a man is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God. In John 3:5, Jesus says unless a man is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot see the kingdom of God. In essence, being born again is being born both of water and the Spirit.

In other words, Jesus isn't distinguishing between natural birth and spiritual birth. He is only speaking about spiritual birth or what being born again consists in.

Water is symbolic of the gospel...1 Peter 1:23.

 

[Ouch]

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Why would anyone think it's anything else besides baptism?

JESUS was talking to a old man right, so why would he think that old man wasn't already born naturally?

Now to HIS word just after he said WATER, John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

SO WHY DOES JESUS HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH BAPTIZING PEOPLE???



Now let's look people who have been REBORN OF THE WATER AND OF THE SPIRIT.

Acts 2:37-41
King James Version
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

YOU DO NOT GLADLY RECEIVE HIS WORD!!!

Acts 10:44-48
King James Version
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.


Acts 19
King James Version
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

IN EVERY CASE, BOTH WATER AND SPIRIT!!! EVERY CASE!!!



So why do I think JESUS is talking about baptism in John 3:5?

Question is why would anyone think he is talking about being born naturally?

2 Corinthians 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.


Since you don't answer any other questions, SHOW ME WHERE JESUS IS TALKING ABOUT NATURAL BIRTH IS A REQUIREMENT TO BEING SAVED.

Can you answer that ONE???

Why was JESUS and his disciples baptizing people in John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

Why, for want reason?

 

[Ouch]

In John 3:3, Jesus says unless a man is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God. In John 3:5, Jesus says unless a man is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot see the kingdom of God. In essence, being born again is being born both of water and the Spirit.

In other words, Jesus isn't distinguishing between natural birth and spiritual birth. He is only speaking about spiritual birth or what being born again consists in.

Water is symbolic of the gospel...1 Peter 1:23.

1 Peter 1:23. how do you get born again?