The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[mailmandan]

I've been resting on the sabbath, so I have over 100 post to read..

Resting only on the sabbath and you left out the rest?

Exodus 16:23 - Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.’

Exodus 16:29 - See! For the Lord has given you the Sabbath; therefore, He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.”

Who was Exodus 20:8-11 addressed to? Exodus 20:2 - I am the Lord your God, who brought YOU out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. The Israelites.

Moses gives the reason why the sabbath was given to the nation of Israel: "Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought YOU out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore, the Lord your God has commanded YOU to observe the Sabbath day." (Deuteronomy 5:15)

Exodus 31:12 - And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 13 “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. 14 You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16 Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’

Exodus 35:3 - Then Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said to them, “These are the words which the Lord has commanded you to do: 2 Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death. 3 You shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”

Nehemiah 10:31 - And if the peoples of the land brought wares or any grain to sell on the Sabbath day, we would not buy it from them on the Sabbath, or on a holy day; and we would forego the seventh year’s produce and the exacting of every debt.

Nehemiah 13:15 - In those days I saw people in Judah treading winepresses on the Sabbath, and bringing in sheaves, and loading donkeys with wine, grapes, figs, and all kinds of burdens, which they brought into Jerusalem on the Sabbath day. And I warned them about the day on which they were selling provisions. (no marketing on the Sabbath)

Numbers 15:32 - While the people of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation. 34 They put him in custody, because it had not been made clear what should be done to him. 35 And the Lord said to Moses, “The man shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36 And all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him to death with stones, as the Lord commanded Moses.

Amos 8:5 - Saying: “When will the New Moon be past, that we may sell grain? And the Sabbath, that we may trade wheat? Making the ephah small and the shekel large, Falsifying the scales by deceit. (no trading on the Sabbath)

How can someone keep a certain law when they only keep part of it? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the old covenant of law, no Sabbatarian today can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.

 

[Undergrace1]

But if God promises to give you His Spirit and He is able to overcome sin in you. Why would you say "it can't be done"

Is God able or Not able?

I don't care how impossible it might be for my flesh to do. God's spirit is mighty and all powerful.
Mat 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

Because of unbelief, lack of faith overcoming will not be possible.

A trademark of those who insist you must obey the TC are pat statements Im afraid. Im kind of an expert, I grew up with this!
When people say you must obey the TC what they really mean is, you must obey outwardly. How do I know?
Because when I was young, I in reality tried to obey the law/TC to show righteousness before God. And I got crushed, not because I was committing adultery, stealing, murdering or taking the Lord's name in vain but because of what went on, on the inside of me as a young teenager. I read of someone who too in effect tried to show righteousness as a believer by obeying the law/TC/not committing sin, people thought they were weird as they were constantly muttering to God asking him to forgive them for every imperfection.
Now if you and others truly held the TC to the level they are set at, you would much be on your knees asking for forgiveness for wrong thoughts you cannot control!
And so, Paul gave this as the reason he had to die to the law/righteousness of obeying it, for he had the conviction of sin Im afraid people in your denomination do not have
I was literally, shocked, stunned and appalled to see two women in the church on a Saturday laughing and joking as they transgressed one of the TC they insisted must be obeyed, and they were by no means the only ones doing it. Why? because they did not have consciousness they should have had where obedience to those commands are concerned
It is easy to say you must obey the TC if you much of the time have no consciousness of sin when you transgress them, and only relate those laws to outward obedience. And it is easy to make the pat statements you have to me, if you only follow in effect a watered down version of the TC.
The law within will always convict of sin to a far greater degree than an external law ever will. Hence those who look to an external law, do not understand what those do, who have an internal law that convicts them of the full standard required to obey the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation
By the way, Jesus referred to the pharisees as blind pharisees, for only seeking to clean the outside of the cup. Those who do not relate the TC to what goes on, on the inside of man do the same!

 

[mailmandan]

I've been resting on the sabbath, so I have over 100 post to read..

At a boy.

 

[mailmandan]

I think they only accepted Trinitarian doctrine to attract more foolish converts.

According to a former SDA member, SDA's have institutionalized deception.

Straight Talk on the Dangers of Seventh-day Adventism

 

[SabbathBlessing]

They weren't initial guidelines, you are correct, years later the leaders of the church reiterated to Paul they were still only asking gentiles to follow the same four laws(Acts21:25)

Your own verse says the Sabbath was part of the council for Gentiles . Because the Sabbath has always been made everyone Exo20:10 Isa 56:6-7 Mark2:27 God wants to spend holy and sacred time with all people. Sadly not everyone accepts His invitation to join themselves to Him. Isa 56:6

This is a fulfillment of Isa 56:6-7 because what Jesus promises always comes true

Acts 15:21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

 

[mailmandan]

A trademark of those who insist you must obey the TC are pat statements Im afraid. Im kind of an expert, I grew up with this!
When people say you must obey the TC what they really mean is, you must obey outwardly. How do I know?
Because when I was young, I in reality tried to obey the law/TC to show righteousness before God. And I got crushed, not because I was committing adultery, stealing, murdering or taking the Lord's name in vain but because of what went on, on the inside of me as a young teenager. I read of someone who too in effect tried to show righteousness as a believer by obeying the law/TC/not committing sin, people thought they were weird as they were constantly muttering to God asking him to forgive them for every imperfection.
Now if you and others truly held the TC to the level they are set at, you would much be on your knees asking for forgiveness for wrong thoughts you cannot control!
And so, Paul gave this as the reason he had to die to the law/righteousness of obeying it, for he had the conviction of sin Im afraid people in your denomination do not have
I was literally, shocked, stunned and appalled to see two women in the church on a Saturday laughing and joking as they transgressed one of the TC they insisted must be obeyed, and they were by no means the only ones doing it. Why? because they did not have consciousness they should have had where obedience to those commands are concerned
It is easy to say you must obey the TC if you much of the time have no consciousness of sin when you transgress them, and only relate those laws to outward obedience. And it is easy to make the pat statements you have to me, if you only follow in effect a watered down version of the TC.
The law within will always convict of sin to a far greater degree than an external law ever will. Hence those who look to an external law, do not understand what those do, who have an internal law that convicts them of the full standard required to obey the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation
By the way, Jesus referred to the pharisees as blind pharisees, for only seeking to clean the outside of the cup. Those who do not relate the TC to what goes on, on the inside of man do the same!

SDA's seem to believe that they have sufficiently kept the 10 commandments (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment) and will receive eternal life based on that standard but as for believers who find their 'sabbatismos' rest in Christ (Hebrews 4:9) and not in observing a specific day (Colossians 2:16-17) they would say we have not kept the 4th commandment and therefore (have not kept God's commandments) and we will not be saved because of that. That's what this whole division between SDA's and non-SDA believers is all about.

SDA's even teach that the near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday. - Mark of the Beast - SDA Doctrine vs Bible Truth

 

[TMS]

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.Col2:16&17
One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind Rom14:5

He also believes the levitical unclean food laws are still in effect:
I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean Rom14:14
Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. ALL(ALL) food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. verse20

Many people diligently search the Scriptures, not to find truth, but simply to gather support for their preconceived religious ideas. Their minds are not open to be taught by God’s Holy Spirit, and therefore they can manipulate the sacred texts to mean exactly what they want to believe.
The context is really important and reading the other verses that God inspired explains can help your understanding.


God made it clear when gave entire chapters, such as Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14, which laid down detailed listings of the clean and unclean categories of animals. And since the original diet prescribed by God included no meat whatsoever (Genesis 1:29), we can be absolutely certain that no forbidden, “unclean” meat was included in the diets of those who lived before the flood and followed God’s law. After the flood, even though clean animals were introduced to the diets of the eight survivors due to the universal destruction of all vegetation, no unclean animals were permitted for food. God commanded the preservation of clean animals in the ark by sevens and the unclean animals by twos (Genesis 7:1-3)..


In Matthew 15:11, Jesus said, “Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.” Without consideration of the context, this verse seems to be saying that we may eat anything without being condemned or contaminated. But when we examine the entire chapter, we find that it has nothing to do with diet. Context clear things up..
“Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.” Verses 17-20.

So that has nothing to do with literal clean or unclean foods. Dietary laws.

 

[GWH]

I've been resting on the sabbath, so I have over 100 post to read..

Including this one:

Here is Scripture where Sabbath law is viewed as Levitical rather than moral.

Matt. 5:17-20 – Jesus said that he came to fulfill the Law and that righteousness must surpass that of the Pharisees, who observed the Levitical laws (cf. Acts 22:2-3 & 26:4-5).

Matt. 12:1-8 – The disciples did what was unlawful on the Sabbath, but Jesus said the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.

Matt. 12:12-14/Mark 3:4-6 – Jesus said that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath and healed a man, which prompted the Pharisees to plot to kill him for breaking the Sabbath.

Luke 13:10-17 – On a Sabbath Jesus broke Sabbath law by healing a crippled woman, which made the synagogue ruler indignant, so Jesus rebuked him for hypocrisy.

Luke 14:1-6 – While dining with a prominent Pharisee Jesus saw a sick man and healed him from dropsy, noting that an animal which had fallen in a well would have been pulled out with no objection.

John 5:1-18 – Jesus healed a paralyzed man on the Sabbath, so the Jews persecuted him for breaking the Sabbath law.

John 9:1-34 – Jesus healed a blind man on the Sabbath, who believed Jesus was a prophet, and the Jews had decided to excommunicate anyone who said Jesus was Messiah.

These Scriptures indicate that the main reason Jesus was crucified was for the crime of breaking Sabbath law and claiming to be from God/Messiah. We see that Jesus never taught anyone to keep the fourth commandment and never hinted that it was an eternal moral law, but instead indicated that it is merely Levitical tradition, and so Paul wrote “Do not let anyone judge you… with regard to a Sabbath day” (Col. 2:16).

As a truthseeker, I am very open to changing my "ways" when warranted, and I have amended a few of my beliefs
due to discussions on CC, but I see no reason to view the Sabbath Law as mandatory for Christians. If Jesus thought
keeping the Sabbath was an important law, he would have reaffirmed it as he did a few other OT commands in Matt. 5.

Paul taught that a person may rest on the Sabbath or not in Col. 2:16, Gal. 4:9-11 & Rom. 14:5.

Hebrews encourages Christians to enter God’s Sabbath rest by persevering faith in Heb. 3:7-4:11.

The primary sin per the NT is transgression of GRFS (Gal. 3:1-14), and secondary sins are transgression of Christ’s law (John 13:34), which summarizes the OT moral laws (Matt. 22:37-40) affirmed by the NT (Matt. 5:17-48) and calls them the fruit of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22-23), which does NOT include all 613 laws of Moses, such as those pertaining to mildew and infectious disease in Lev. 14.

Jesus fulfilled/accomplished the 613 Mosaic laws (Matt. 5:17-19) and taught that righteousness must surpass/supersede that of the Pharisees (Matt. 5:20) including Paul (Acts 22:3-5), to whom Jesus appeared, saying “Saul, why do you persecute me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen of me and what I will show you… I am sending you to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.”

Paul did just that when he preached to the folks (both Jews and Gentiles per Acts 14:1-5) in Galatia (Acts 13:49), encouraging them to remain true to the faith (Acts 14:22), which he reiterated in his epistle, beginning “I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel, which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ… But if anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!” (Gal. 1:3-9)

Paul stated the true gospel thusly, “I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ [the HS] lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved he and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness [holiness] could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”

Paul may also have written Hebrews, which warns against not entering God’s Sabbath rest by not holding firmly until the end the confidence/faith in Christ (Heb. 3:14, 4:2). Heb. 7:11-10:1 begins as follows:
“If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood, why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also… The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless, for the law made nothing perfect, and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God. Such a high priest truly meets our need… the Son, who has been made perfect forever, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven… The ministry of Jesus has received is superior to the old one [of Moses], since the NC is established on better promises… God said, ‘The days are coming when I will make a new covenant’ [Jer. 31:31-34]. It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts… By calling this covenant ‘new’, he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.”

In this passage the Lord says that the OC including the Sabbath commandment is obsolete/superseded by the Gospel of Christ. Need GW say more?

 

[vassal]

A trademark of those who insist you must obey the TC are pat statements Im afraid. Im kind of an expert, I grew up with this!
When people say you must obey the TC what they really mean is, you must obey outwardly. How do I know?
Because when I was young, I in reality tried to obey the law/TC to show righteousness before God. And I got crushed, not because I was committing adultery, stealing, murdering or taking the Lord's name in vain but because of what went on, on the inside of me as a young teenager. I read of someone who too in effect tried to show righteousness as a believer by obeying the law/TC/not committing sin, people thought they were weird as they were constantly muttering to God asking him to forgive them for every imperfection.
Now if you and others truly held the TC to the level they are set at, you would much be on your knees asking for forgiveness for wrong thoughts you cannot control!
And so, Paul gave this as the reason he had to die to the law/righteousness of obeying it, for he had the conviction of sin Im afraid people in your denomination do not have
I was literally, shocked, stunned and appalled to see two women in the church on a Saturday laughing and joking as they transgressed one of the TC they insisted must be obeyed, and they were by no means the only ones doing it. Why? because they did not have consciousness they should have had where obedience to those commands are concerned
It is easy to say you must obey the TC if you much of the time have no consciousness of sin when you transgress them, and only relate those laws to outward obedience. And it is easy to make the pat statements you have to me, if you only follow in effect a watered down version of the TC.
The law within will always convict of sin to a far greater degree than an external law ever will. Hence those who look to an external law, do not understand what those do, who have an internal law that convicts them of the full standard required to obey the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation
By the way, Jesus referred to the pharisees as blind pharisees, for only seeking to clean the outside of the cup. Those who do not relate the TC to what goes on, on the inside of man do the same!

it is Jesus , the messiah to whom all authority in heaven and on earth was given that that say we MUST keep the commandments to enter into life, see the verses;

If ye love me, keep my commandments. (john 14:15)
If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (mat 19:17)
Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my word, he shall never see death.(John 8:51)

 

[vassal]

Including this one:

Here is Scripture where Sabbath law is viewed as Levitical rather than moral.

Matt. 5:17-20 – Jesus said that he came to fulfill the Law and that righteousness must surpass that of the Pharisees, who observed the Levitical laws (cf. Acts 22:2-3 & 26:4-5).

Matt. 12:1-8 – The disciples did what was unlawful on the Sabbath, but Jesus said the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.

Matt. 12:12-14/Mark 3:4-6 – Jesus said that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath and healed a man, which prompted the Pharisees to plot to kill him for breaking the Sabbath.

Luke 13:10-17 – On a Sabbath Jesus broke Sabbath law by healing a crippled woman, which made the synagogue ruler indignant, so Jesus rebuked him for hypocrisy.

Luke 14:1-6 – While dining with a prominent Pharisee Jesus saw a sick man and healed him from dropsy, noting that an animal which had fallen in a well would have been pulled out with no objection.

John 5:1-18 – Jesus healed a paralyzed man on the Sabbath, so the Jews persecuted him for breaking the Sabbath law.

John 9:1-34 – Jesus healed a blind man on the Sabbath, who believed Jesus was a prophet, and the Jews had decided to excommunicate anyone who said Jesus was Messiah.

These Scriptures indicate that the main reason Jesus was crucified was for the crime of breaking Sabbath law and claiming to be from God/Messiah. We see that Jesus never taught anyone to keep the fourth commandment and never hinted that it was an eternal moral law, but instead indicated that it is merely Levitical tradition, and so Paul wrote “Do not let anyone judge you… with regard to a Sabbath day” (Col. 2:16).

As a truthseeker, I am very open to changing my "ways" when warranted, and I have amended a few of my beliefs
due to discussions on CC, but I see no reason to view the Sabbath Law as mandatory for Christians. If Jesus thought
keeping the Sabbath was an important law, he would have reaffirmed it as he did a few other OT commands in Matt. 5.

Paul taught that a person may rest on the Sabbath or not in Col. 2:16, Gal. 4:9-11 & Rom. 14:5.

Hebrews encourages Christians to enter God’s Sabbath rest by persevering faith in Heb. 3:7-4:11.

The primary sin per the NT is transgression of GRFS (Gal. 3:1-14), and secondary sins are transgression of Christ’s law (John 13:34), which summarizes the OT moral laws (Matt. 22:37-40) affirmed by the NT (Matt. 5:17-48) and calls them the fruit of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22-23), which does NOT include all 613 laws of Moses, such as those pertaining to mildew and infectious disease in Lev. 14.

Jesus fulfilled/accomplished the 613 Mosaic laws (Matt. 5:17-19) and taught that righteousness must surpass/supersede that of the Pharisees (Matt. 5:20) including Paul (Acts 22:3-5), to whom Jesus appeared, saying “Saul, why do you persecute me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen of me and what I will show you… I am sending you to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.”

Paul did just that when he preached to the folks (both Jews and Gentiles per Acts 14:1-5) in Galatia (Acts 13:49), encouraging them to remain true to the faith (Acts 14:22), which he reiterated in his epistle, beginning “I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel, which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ… But if anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!” (Gal. 1:3-9)

Paul stated the true gospel thusly, “I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ [the HS] lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved he and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness [holiness] could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”

Paul may also have written Hebrews, which warns against not entering God’s Sabbath rest by not holding firmly until the end the confidence/faith in Christ (Heb. 3:14, 4:2). Heb. 7:11-10:1 begins as follows:
“If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood, why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also… The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless, for the law made nothing perfect, and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God. Such a high priest truly meets our need… the Son, who has been made perfect forever, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven… The ministry of Jesus has received is superior to the old one [of Moses], since the NC is established on better promises… God said, ‘The days are coming when I will make a new covenant’ [Jer. 31:31-34]. It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts… By calling this covenant ‘new’, he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.”

In this passage the Lord says that the OC including the Sabbath commandment is obsolete/superseded by the Gospel of Christ. Need GW say more?

Please read your bible, the words pf Jesus in John, Mark, Matthew and Luke. please study harder.

 

[TMS]

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.Col2:16&17
One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind Rom14:5

He also believes the levitical unclean food laws are still in effect:
I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean Rom14:14
Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. ALL(ALL) food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. verse20

In Romans 14, the common theme is JUDGING. SO we must first recognize the parties involved in the judging and the issues over which the judging was taking place. There were two main groups in the early church -the Jewish Christians who had been converted from Judaism, and the Gentile Christians who had been won from heathenism. These two groups did not get along very well. They were constantly judging each other. Now let’s notice what the division was all about. The Gentile Christians judged the Jewish Christians because they were eating meat which had been offered in sacrifice to idols. To the Gentile convert, such food was unfit to be eaten. Even though he was now a Christian, he could not forget how he once offered food to idols, and in his mind the eating of such food was connected to idol worship. The Jewish convert, on the other hand, had no such guilt because he had always acknowledged only one God, and naturally felt no guilt about eating the meat which had been sacrificed to idols. It was sold in the market place at a cheaper price, and the Jewish Christians considered it a desirable bargain. Now let’s read the first few verses of Romans 14 concerning the brother who was weak in the faith. “Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him that eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant?” Romans 14:1-4. Can we, by comparing other Scriptures, locate the weak brother? Can we also locate the problem which created the “judging” situation? Yes, we can. Paul had to deal with it at considerable length in 1 Corinthians 10 and 1 Corinthians 8. Notice his description: “As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one....Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. … But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to them that are weak.” 1 Corinthians 8:4-9. Here we locate the weak brother of Romans 14:1-3. He was the Gentile Christian who felt that it was sinful to eat the meat which had been offered to idols. Paul agreed with the Jewish converts that there was nothing wrong with the food, since there is only one God after all. But he advised that the food not be eaten in front of the Gentile believers lest it be a stumbling block to them. Compare this language with Paul’s counsel in Romans 14:13: “Judge this rather, that no man put a stumbling block or an occasion to fall in his brother’s way.” In 1 Corinthians 8:11, 12, Paul asks this question: “And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.” Compare that statement with this one in Romans 14:15: “Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.” Also read Romans 14:21: “It is good er to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.”
Obviously the accounts in Romans 14 and 1 Corinthians 8 are referring to the same problem. Identical language is used in describing them, and the same judging was taking place in reference to the problem. One more point needs to be clarified. The meat in question was not “unclean meat” in the biblical sense. The question only revolved around food that was “esteemed” unclean by the Gentile Christians because it had been offered to idols.
Actually, the heathen did not offer swine or other unclean animals in their sacrifices, as Acts 14:13 establishes. So when the Jewish Christians bought the food which had been offered to idols, it was not wrong in itself, as Paul pointed out. It became wrong only when it offended the “weak brother,” or the Gentile Christian, who esteemed it to be unclean through association with the idol. Some of the Gentile believers were so strong against it that they abstained from meat altogether and ate only herbs for fear they might eat some meat that had been offered to idols. In Romans 14:1-3, Paul urges the Roman church to receive such people and honor their conscience. It was not a moral issue and should not be permitted to divide the church. By examining these apparent contradictions in the Bible relating to diet, without understanding the context there is lots of theological confusion in today’s religious world. A simple understanding of the circumstances behind the writing enables us to grasp the words and phrases in their original format and to recognize the beautiful harmony and unity of Scripture.

These verses do not controdict the rest of the Bible when understood in context.

 

[NightTwister]

I just thought of a point for those that keep Sunday as the Sabbath.

Firstly Sunday is never called the Lord's Day. Sunday was never sanctified or blessed, Sunday is never made the day of rest.
2. The Sabbath was given at creation.
How do you make a memorial of creation? The whole planet was made so you can't commemorate a single place or thing in creation. God rested on The Seventh Day and made it a memorial of creation.
You commemorate independence day on the 4th of July. (The day the declaration was signed)
Why would people commemorate the sabbath on Sunday.
Exo 20:8-10
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

It would not make sense to commemorate any other day.

3. Not a single text in context proves that the 7th day sabbath was changed to Sunday or any other day.

4. The Lord's Day is the sabbath.
Exo 16:23, 20:11, 31:15, Eze 20:12, Isa 58:13-14, Mark 2:27-28
The Lord's Holy is the sabbath Not Sunday.

I don't keep any day as the Sabbath. Jesus is my Sabbath rest.

 

[Undergrace1]

Your own verse says the Sabbath was part of the council for Gentiles . Because the Sabbath has always been made everyone Exo20:10 Isa 56:6-7 Mark2:27 God wants to spend holy and sacred time with all people. Sadly not everyone accepts His invitation to join themselves to Him. Isa 56:6

This is a fulfillment of Isa 56:6-7 because what Jesus promises always comes true

Acts 15:21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

Im afraid your church cannot be relied upon where applicable law is concerned. In Acts15, the leaders of the church, including Peter, James and John met to decide which Mosaic laws gentiles be asked to follow. IF, avoiding the levitical unclean foods was applicable law, the church leaders would have been obligated to decide gentiles must follow those laws. They did not. And therefore, if your denomination was correct, it is an indisputable fact the first century church leaders would have given gentile converts a licence to sin as sin is the transgression of the law

 

[Undergrace1]

Many people diligently search the Scriptures, not to find truth, but simply to gather support for their preconceived religious ideas. Their minds are not open to be taught by God’s Holy Spirit, and therefore they can manipulate the sacred texts to mean exactly what they want to believe.
The context is really important and reading the other verses that God inspired explains can help your understanding.


God made it clear when gave entire chapters, such as Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14, which laid down detailed listings of the clean and unclean categories of animals. And since the original diet prescribed by God included no meat whatsoever (Genesis 1:29), we can be absolutely certain that no forbidden, “unclean” meat was included in the diets of those who lived before the flood and followed God’s law. After the flood, even though clean animals were introduced to the diets of the eight survivors due to the universal destruction of all vegetation, no unclean animals were permitted for food. God commanded the preservation of clean animals in the ark by sevens and the unclean animals by twos (Genesis 7:1-3)..


In Matthew 15:11, Jesus said, “Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.” Without consideration of the context, this verse seems to be saying that we may eat anything without being condemned or contaminated. But when we examine the entire chapter, we find that it has nothing to do with diet. Context clear things up..
“Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.” Verses 17-20.

So that has nothing to do with literal clean or unclean foods. Dietary laws.

Im afraid your church cannot be relied upon where applicable law is concerned. In Acts15, the leaders of the church, including Peter, James and John met to decide which Mosaic laws gentiles be asked to follow. IF, avoiding the levitical unclean foods was applicable law, the church leaders would have been obligated to decide gentiles must follow those laws. They did not. And therefore, if your denomination was correct, it is an indisputable fact the first century church leaders would have given gentile converts a licence to sin as sin is the transgression of the law

 

[Undergrace1]

it is Jesus , the messiah to whom all authority in heaven and on earth was given that that say we MUST keep the commandments to enter into life, see the verses;

If ye love me, keep my commandments. (john 14:15)
If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (mat 19:17)
Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my word, he shall never see death.(John 8:51)

Well as you transgress the TC does that mean you will not enter life, or are you a special case?

 

[Undergrace1]

In Romans 14, the common theme is JUDGING. SO we must first recognize the parties involved in the judging and the issues over which the judging was taking place. There were two main groups in the early church -the Jewish Christians who had been converted from Judaism, and the Gentile Christians who had been won from heathenism. These two groups did not get along very well. They were constantly judging each other. Now let’s notice what the division was all about. The Gentile Christians judged the Jewish Christians because they were eating meat which had been offered in sacrifice to idols. To the Gentile convert, such food was unfit to be eaten. Even though he was now a Christian, he could not forget how he once offered food to idols, and in his mind the eating of such food was connected to idol worship. The Jewish convert, on the other hand, had no such guilt because he had always acknowledged only one God, and naturally felt no guilt about eating the meat which had been sacrificed to idols. It was sold in the market place at a cheaper price, and the Jewish Christians considered it a desirable bargain. Now let’s read the first few verses of Romans 14 concerning the brother who was weak in the faith. “Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him that eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant?” Romans 14:1-4. Can we, by comparing other Scriptures, locate the weak brother? Can we also locate the problem which created the “judging” situation? Yes, we can. Paul had to deal with it at considerable length in 1 Corinthians 10 and 1 Corinthians 8. Notice his description: “As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one....Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. … But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to them that are weak.” 1 Corinthians 8:4-9. Here we locate the weak brother of Romans 14:1-3. He was the Gentile Christian who felt that it was sinful to eat the meat which had been offered to idols. Paul agreed with the Jewish converts that there was nothing wrong with the food, since there is only one God after all. But he advised that the food not be eaten in front of the Gentile believers lest it be a stumbling block to them. Compare this language with Paul’s counsel in Romans 14:13: “Judge this rather, that no man put a stumbling block or an occasion to fall in his brother’s way.” In 1 Corinthians 8:11, 12, Paul asks this question: “And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.” Compare that statement with this one in Romans 14:15: “Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.” Also read Romans 14:21: “It is good er to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.”
Obviously the accounts in Romans 14 and 1 Corinthians 8 are referring to the same problem. Identical language is used in describing them, and the same judging was taking place in reference to the problem. One more point needs to be clarified. The meat in question was not “unclean meat” in the biblical sense. The question only revolved around food that was “esteemed” unclean by the Gentile Christians because it had been offered to idols.
Actually, the heathen did not offer swine or other unclean animals in their sacrifices, as Acts 14:13 establishes. So when the Jewish Christians bought the food which had been offered to idols, it was not wrong in itself, as Paul pointed out. It became wrong only when it offended the “weak brother,” or the Gentile Christian, who esteemed it to be unclean through association with the idol. Some of the Gentile believers were so strong against it that they abstained from meat altogether and ate only herbs for fear they might eat some meat that had been offered to idols. In Romans 14:1-3, Paul urges the Roman church to receive such people and honor their conscience. It was not a moral issue and should not be permitted to divide the church. By examining these apparent contradictions in the Bible relating to diet, without understanding the context there is lots of theological confusion in today’s religious world. A simple understanding of the circumstances behind the writing enables us to grasp the words and phrases in their original format and to recognize the beautiful harmony and unity of Scripture.

These verses do not controdict the rest of the Bible when understood in context.

Im afraid your church, and or members of it, cannot be relied upon where applicable law is concerned. In Acts15, the leaders of the church, including Peter, James and John met to decide which Mosaic laws gentiles be asked to follow. IF, avoiding the levitical unclean foods was applicable law, the church leaders would have been obligated to decide gentiles must follow those laws. They did not. And therefore, if your denomination was correct, it is an indisputable fact the first century church leaders would have given gentile converts a licence to sin as sin is the transgression of the law

 

[Undergrace1]

As Jesus said:
Beware of the yeast of the pharisees, which is hypocrisy Luke12:1
They did not practice what they preached/insisted of others

 

[Undergrace1]

In Romans 14, the common theme is JUDGING. SO we must first recognize the parties involved in the judging and the issues over which the judging was taking place. There were two main groups in the early church -the Jewish Christians who had been converted from Judaism, and the Gentile Christians who had been won from heathenism. These two groups did not get along very well. They were constantly judging each other. Now let’s notice what the division was all about. The Gentile Christians judged the Jewish Christians because they were eating meat which had been offered in sacrifice to idols. To the Gentile convert, such food was unfit to be eaten. Even though he was now a Christian, he could not forget how he once offered food to idols, and in his mind the eating of such food was connected to idol worship. The Jewish convert, on the other hand, had no such guilt because he had always acknowledged only one God, and naturally felt no guilt about eating the meat which had been sacrificed to idols. It was sold in the market place at a cheaper price, and the Jewish Christians considered it a desirable bargain. Now let’s read the first few verses of Romans 14 concerning the brother who was weak in the faith. “Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him that eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant?” Romans 14:1-4. Can we, by comparing other Scriptures, locate the weak brother? Can we also locate the problem which created the “judging” situation? Yes, we can. Paul had to deal with it at considerable length in 1 Corinthians 10 and 1 Corinthians 8. Notice his description: “As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one....Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. … But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to them that are weak.” 1 Corinthians 8:4-9. Here we locate the weak brother of Romans 14:1-3. He was the Gentile Christian who felt that it was sinful to eat the meat which had been offered to idols. Paul agreed with the Jewish converts that there was nothing wrong with the food, since there is only one God after all. But he advised that the food not be eaten in front of the Gentile believers lest it be a stumbling block to them. Compare this language with Paul’s counsel in Romans 14:13: “Judge this rather, that no man put a stumbling block or an occasion to fall in his brother’s way.” In 1 Corinthians 8:11, 12, Paul asks this question: “And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.” Compare that statement with this one in Romans 14:15: “Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.” Also read Romans 14:21: “It is good er to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.”
Obviously the accounts in Romans 14 and 1 Corinthians 8 are referring to the same problem. Identical language is used in describing them, and the same judging was taking place in reference to the problem. One more point needs to be clarified. The meat in question was not “unclean meat” in the biblical sense. The question only revolved around food that was “esteemed” unclean by the Gentile Christians because it had been offered to idols.
Actually, the heathen did not offer swine or other unclean animals in their sacrifices, as Acts 14:13 establishes. So when the Jewish Christians bought the food which had been offered to idols, it was not wrong in itself, as Paul pointed out. It became wrong only when it offended the “weak brother,” or the Gentile Christian, who esteemed it to be unclean through association with the idol. Some of the Gentile believers were so strong against it that they abstained from meat altogether and ate only herbs for fear they might eat some meat that had been offered to idols. In Romans 14:1-3, Paul urges the Roman church to receive such people and honor their conscience. It was not a moral issue and should not be permitted to divide the church. By examining these apparent contradictions in the Bible relating to diet, without understanding the context there is lots of theological confusion in today’s religious world. A simple understanding of the circumstances behind the writing enables us to grasp the words and phrases in their original format and to recognize the beautiful harmony and unity of Scripture.

These verses do not controdict the rest of the Bible when understood in context.

And BTW CON-TEXT is not something I go by in the bible! Paul's words in Rom14:14&20 are perfectly in line with the Jerusalem church not asking gentiles to follow the levitical unclean food laws. Your bottom line is your church doctrine NOT what is plainly written in the bible!

 

[memberofthebride]

Let me reword it...

When we transgress the law we are sinning.. at this point you are guilty of sin and death..

Hopefully your heart is soft enough to repent and turn from the sin.
Jesus is able to forgive us and will if we are sorry.
When Jesus forgives us of the sin we are no longer guilty of sin. He took the death on Himself.

By the blood of Christ we are forgiven of sin (the transgression of the law),
Without the blood of Jesus we are guilty of sin.

Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Comment :

If I may, I will offer more on this subject.

Until repentance, baptism and the laying on of hands to receive the Holy Spirit --all -- every last human on earth has sinned and been sentenced to death and are "UNDER the LAW", under sentence of death.

Once our penalty of death has been paid by the sacrifice of Christ, which is accomplished as stated above, we are no longer UNDER penalty of death, under the law.

but we are still subject to the law and must struggle against sin for the rest of our lives. that is called "overcoming".

But as we all still have human nature, we will sin. hopefully less and less as we overcome and grow in righteousness.

IF?? IF when we catch ourselves sinning,, we run to our Father in repentance, those new sins are washed away by the blood of Christ.

A follower of Christ will and must be in a repentant state of mind until the Resurrection.

those converted, those worshiping, those following Jesus Christ -- are imitators of Christ -- are copying the example Christ gave us to follow, we are to become copiers of Christ in all things.

 

[vassal]

Well as you transgress the TC does that mean you will not enter life, or are you a special case?

Yes, Jesus is very clear: keeping His commandments is tied to life. He doesn’t make exceptions for anyone. No one is a “special case” outside obedience. Breaking the commandments doesn’t mean you automatically lose salvation in some abstract sense, but Jesus warns plainly that entering life requires keeping them.
Look at your verses:

• John 14:15 – Love is shown by obedience. Love without obedience is empty.
• Matthew 19:17 – Eternal life is conditional on keeping the commandments. Jesus doesn’t hedge this.
• John 8:51 – Keeping His word (His teachings and commands) is directly connected to life.

So yes, transgressing the Ten Commandments is serious. It is not about being “special” or “above the law.” The apostles never claimed any exemption, and Jesus Himself lived perfectly under the law to show us the path. Anyone claiming that keeping the commandments doesn’t matter is ignoring Jesus’ own words.
This is why the modern idea that “Jesus replaced the commandments” or that obedience is optional is flat wrong. Jesus Himself commands obedience, and His life proves it is possible.