Do All Religions Lead To God?

[Lovette]

I believe "YHWH" translates to "LORD", if that's true then Jesus is the Almighty Jehovah God, the Creator of everything that exists.

I think you meant to say "the only way to the Father is through the Lord Jesus" (who is God Himself).

All three persons of the Godhead (Holy Trinity) are equally God, none of them are higher than the others. But the Lord Jesus is the only One who is both God and Man at the same time.
He is seated next to the Father right now, still in the same body which he descended into heaven 2000 years ago, still baring the wounds from the crucifixion.

I'm afraid it's comparing apple to orange. God is spirit (John 4:12), Jesus is flesh with the power of the holy spirit, the father and the son manifest in different forms according to this below.

There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. (1 Cor. 15:40-41)

What I intended to clarify is that Elohim, a PLURAL term that is usually translated into "god", refer to heavenly being in general, it could be any angel; in Ps. 82, God the father sits among "gods" and renders judgements unto them, and there's also a "divine council" of these "gods", this would cause confusion if your mind is fixed in a monotheistic view that there's only one god, you'd dismiss the other "gods" as either human authority figures or man made idols, but these are dieties who co exist with God the Father in his heavenly court, and according to Rev. 12, a third of them are cast down to earth and thus become "demons", disembodied evil spirits.

 

[bytheblood]

I'm not ignorant of Gods Word, as I have studied the entire Bible from cover to cover. And I try to walk in the power of the Holy Ghost, but I find myself being overcome by the temptation to sin everyday.

I've never found any scripture to support your theory that we can attain sinless perfection, by our willpower.

None of Gods Prophets or Apostles were able to overcome the temptation to sin. So I was wondering if you would be so kind as to share your esoteric knowledge, with us underprivileged bottom feeders.

Noah committed incest, Moses killed a man, Lot offered his daughters to a sex crazed mob, Jesus called Peter Satan and all the Apostles deserted Christ and I have already mentioned David and Paul the murderers. There are many more I could mention but the point is that all born again believers continue to sin, only the liars don't.

You don't earn salvation by pretending to be a nice guy while your heart still desires to have it's lust fulfilled. God can see straight through that highly polished cup, He can see the true state of every heart.

I'm not sure if you're aware of the fact that Adam was under a different covenant to us, so it's pointless to use Adams fall to defend your theory. Adam was under the "covenant of the law" and everyone after Adam is under the "covenant of grace".

The Lord Jesus has already paid for all of my past, present and future sins. So, I'm no longer under condemnation. Here are some scriptures to help you understand this truth.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,
4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

See how that works, Christ fulfilled the law on behalf of Gods people. So we are not saved by keeping the law.

Galatians 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”),

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

I am in agreement with most of your post except the part about Adam being under the law . The law was not yet given " Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is there is no transgression." Romans 4:15 Adam was under grace.

 

[Cameron143]

I am in agreement with most of your post except the part about Adam being under the law . The law was not yet given " Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is there is no transgression." Romans 4:15 Adam was under grace.

Could Adam eat of the fruit of the tree in the midst of the garden? Wasn't there a law in connection with the tree?

 

[Journey_man]

I'm afraid it's comparing apple to orange. God is spirit (John 4:12), Jesus is flesh with the power of the holy spirit, the father and the son manifest in different forms according to this below.

There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. (1 Cor. 15:40-41)

What I intended to clarify is that Elohim, a PLURAL term that is usually translated into "god", refer to heavenly being in general, it could be any angel; in Ps. 82, God the father sits among "gods" and renders judgements unto them, and there's also a "divine council" of these "gods", this would cause confusion if your mind is fixed in a monotheistic view that there's only one god, you'd dismiss the other "gods" as either human authority figures or man made idols, but these are dieties who co exist with God the Father in his heavenly court, and according to Rev. 12, a third of them are cast down to earth and thus become "demons", disembodied evil spirits.

I'm not sure what you mean by, "Jesus is flesh with the power of the holy spirit, the father and the son manifest in different forms according to this below".

The bible makes it clear that the Lord Jesus and the Father are One God.

John 10:30 "I and the Father are one".

John 10:38 "but that you may know and believe, that the Father is in Me, and I in Him".

John 14:9 "Jesus said to him, 'Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, “Show us the Father?”'".

John 17:21 "that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me".

John 17:22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one".

Gods Name is The LORD, He is One with the Son and the Holy Spirit. We can't get our minds around how three separate Persons are One God. It's a mystery which is beyond our ability to comprehend, so we believe it by faith.

God exists outside of His creation, He is outside of time and He is everywhere at the same time. Everything about Him is a mystery, we will never know His ways because they are past finding out. The fallen Angels are not disembodied Spirits, they never had a biological body to begin with.

There are no deities co existing with God, because God is outside of His creation. The heavenly host are just stars and planets, their only purpose is to make the night sky pretty. The Angelic Hosts, each have their task to fulfill, so they are mere servants. They were not created in the image of God as man was.

 

[Journey_man]

I am in agreement with most of your post except the part about Adam being under the law . The law was not yet given " Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is there is no transgression." Romans 4:15 Adam was under grace.

Adam was initially under the Covenant of Works, where life depended on perfect obedience to God's law, but after his fall, God immediately introduced the Covenant of Grace, promising Christ in;

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.”,

This shifted humanity's hope from personal merit to God's unmerited favor through faith. So, Adam was under both: the works principle before the fall and the grace principle after the fall, which all believers follow.

Adam was to perfectly obey God's law (represented by the command not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil) to secure eternal life for himself and his posterity.

This covenant was a test of Adam's inherent ability, not requiring redemptive grace, as he was created in a state of divine favor.

Immediately after the fall, God initiated the Covenant of Grace with the promise of a Redeemer (Genesis 3:15).
This covenant offers eternal life not through human works, but as a free gift received by faith in Christ, the "last Adam".

While the principle of grace began with Adam, its administration (the way it's revealed) changed, from promises and types in the Old Testament to Christ's fulfillment in the New.

These two overarching covenants: Works and Grace, with all humanity falling under the former and all the redeemed falling under the latter.
Even pre-fall Adam experienced God's benevolent grace, but the redemptive grace of the Covenant of Grace only became necessary and active after sin entered the world.

 

[GWH]

I'm afraid it's comparing apple to orange. God is spirit (John 4:12), Jesus is flesh with the power of the holy spirit, the father and the son manifest in different forms according to this below.

There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. (1 Cor. 15:40-41)

What I intended to clarify is that Elohim, a PLURAL term that is usually translated into "god", refer to heavenly being in general, it could be any angel; in Ps. 82, God the father sits among "gods" and renders judgements unto them, and there's also a "divine council" of these "gods", this would cause confusion if your mind is fixed in a monotheistic view that there's only one god, you'd dismiss the other "gods" as either human authority figures or man made idols, but these are dieties who co exist with God the Father in his heavenly court, and according to Rev. 12, a third of them are cast down to earth and thus become "demons", disembodied evil spirits.

Semantically, there can be only one Almighty/God.

 

[Lovette]

I'm not sure what you mean by, "Jesus is flesh with the power of the holy spirit, the father and the son manifest in different forms according to this below".

The bible makes it clear that the Lord Jesus and the Father are One God.

The bible is also clear that Lord Jesus and the Father are two distinct beings, God the father is of spirit, Jesus the son is of both spirit and flesh. I meant what Rom. 1:3-4 meant.

... concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.

Gods Name is The LORD, He is One with the Son and the Holy Spirit. We can't get our minds around how three separate Persons are One God. It's a mystery which is beyond our ability to comprehend, so we believe it by faith.

God exists outside of His creation, He is outside of time and He is everywhere at the same time. Everything about Him is a mystery, we will never know His ways because they are past finding out. The fallen Angels are not disembodied Spirits, they never had a biological body to begin with.

There are no deities co existing with God, because God is outside of His creation. The heavenly host are just stars and planets, their only purpose is to make the night sky pretty. The Angelic Hosts, each have their task to fulfill, so they are mere servants. They were not created in the image of God as man was.

This is more of a semantic matter than a theological matter, these angelic hosts are called "gods" in small g in the bible. Whenever the Israelites are being criticized for idolatry, these "gods" are mentioned. That's why the definition of "god" must be clarified, as long as these other "gods" co-exist with God the father. My suggestion is to call only God the father God, all these other gods "deities".

God stands in the congregation of the mighty;
He judges among the gods.
How long will you judge unjustly,
And show partiality to the wicked?
Defend the poor and fatherless;
Do justice to the afflicted and needy.
Deliver the poor and needy;
Free them from the hand of the wicked.
They do not know, nor do they understand;
They walk about in darkness;
All the foundations of the earth are unstable.
I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are children of the Most High.
But you shall die like men,
And fall like one of the princes.”
Arise, O God, judge the earth;
For You shall inherit all nations. (Ps. 82)

 

[Lovette]

Semantically, there can be only one Almighty/God.

Terms must be defined before any meaningful debate or argument.

 

[bytheblood]

Adam was initially under the Covenant of Works, where life depended on perfect obedience to God's law, but after his fall, God immediately introduced the Covenant of Grace, promising Christ in;

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.”,

This shifted humanity's hope from personal merit to God's unmerited favor through faith. So, Adam was under both: the works principle before the fall and the grace principle after the fall, which all believers follow.

Adam was to perfectly obey God's law (represented by the command not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil) to secure eternal life for himself and his posterity.

This covenant was a test of Adam's inherent ability, not requiring redemptive grace, as he was created in a state of divine favor.

Immediately after the fall, God initiated the Covenant of Grace with the promise of a Redeemer (Genesis 3:15).
This covenant offers eternal life not through human works, but as a free gift received by faith in Christ, the "last Adam".

While the principle of grace began with Adam, its administration (the way it's revealed) changed, from promises and types in the Old Testament to Christ's fulfillment in the New.

These two overarching covenants: Works and Grace, with all humanity falling under the former and all the redeemed falling under the latter.
Even pre-fall Adam experienced God's benevolent grace, but the redemptive grace of the Covenant of Grace only became necessary and active after sin entered the world.

It seems as if the covenant of law IS the covenant of works. I don't recall a covenant being mentioned before Adam's fall, even you stated that Adam was under grace before the fall and also after. All grace from God is benevolent and because God covered Adam with the blood (skins) of animals that act, IMHO, allowed him to be redeemed when Christ sprinkled blood on the mercy seat for the righteous, those both before His earthly sojourn and after. He entered once for all.

I'm afraid it's comparing apple to orange. God is spirit (John 4:12), Jesus is flesh with the power of the holy spirit, the father and the son manifest in different forms according to this below.

There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. (1 Cor. 15:40-41)

What I intended to clarify is that Elohim, a PLURAL term that is usually translated into "god", refer to heavenly being in general, it could be any angel; in Ps. 82, God the father sits among "gods" and renders judgements unto them, and there's also a "divine council" of these "gods", this would cause confusion if your mind is fixed in a monotheistic view that there's only one god, you'd dismiss the other "gods" as either human authority figures or man made idols, but these are dieties who co exist with God the Father in his heavenly court, and according to Rev. 12, a third of them are cast down to earth and thus become "demons", disembodied evil spirits.

Calling angels deity brings to mind what JW's believe, that Michael the Archangel is really Jesus. Angels are certainly NOT deities. True deity deserves worship and there are instances in scripture when man tries to worship an angel but the angel stopped him, here's one example " And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the ANGEL which showed me these things. Then said he to me, See thou do it not" for I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of the book: worship God." Rev 22: 8-9. Also, have you read this from the Apostle Paul to the church in 1 Corinthians 6:3 ? " Know ye not that WE SHALL JUDGE ANGELS? how much more things that pertain to this life? Are we to judge deity ????

 

[Lovette]

Calling angels deity brings to mind what JW's believe, that Michael the Archangel is really Jesus. Angels are certainly NOT deities. True deity deserves worship and there are instances in scripture when man tries to worship an angel but the angel stopped him, here's one example " And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the ANGEL which showed me these things. Then said he to me, See thou do it not" for I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of the book: worship God." Rev 22: 8-9. Also, have you read this from the Apostle Paul to the church in 1 Corinthians 6:3 ? " Know ye not that WE SHALL JUDGE ANGELS? how much more things that pertain to this life? Are we to judge deity ????

It has nothing to do with JW, "gods" are explicitly mentioned in Ps. 82, in which God judges among "gods", "judging angels" seems like the fulfilment of it. If that's true, then the bible identified them as "gods". I have made it clear, that there's only one Lord God YHWH who created the universe, any other heavenly host is a small g "god" or "son of God".

God stands in the congregation of the mighty;
He judges among the gods.
How long will you judge unjustly,
And show partiality to the wicked?
Defend the poor and fatherless;
Do justice to the afflicted and needy.
Deliver the poor and needy;
Free them from the hand of the wicked.
They do not know, nor do they understand;
They walk about in darkness;
All the foundations of the earth are unstable.
I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are children of the Most High.
But you shall die like men,
And fall like one of the princes.”
Arise, O God, judge the earth;
For You shall inherit all nations. (Ps. 82)

 

[GWH]

Terms must be defined before any meaningful debate or argument.

Yes, and in GW God is best defined as the One (Deut. 6:4) Almighty (Gen. 17:1) Creator (Gen. 1:1) and Savior (Psa. 42:11, Luke 1:47, Tit. 2:13).

 

[Lovette]

Yes, and in GW God is best defined as the One (Deut. 6:4) Almighty (Gen. 17:1) Creator (Gen. 1:1) and Savior (Psa. 42:11, Luke 1:47, Tit. 2:13).

You know, this is about the definition of the word "God”, not the identity of God according to the bible, although there's a large intersection. The definition can be narrow down to Eternal (Ex. 3:14) Creator (Gen. 1:1), anything else such as the holy trinity belongs to the identity category.

 

[Journey_man]

The bible is also clear that Lord Jesus and the Father are two distinct beings, God the father is of spirit, Jesus the son is of both spirit and flesh. I meant what Rom. 1:3-4 meant.

... concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.



This is more of a semantic matter than a theological matter, these angelic hosts are called "gods" in small g in the bible. Whenever the Israelites are being criticized for idolatry, these "gods" are mentioned. That's why the definition of "god" must be clarified, as long as these other "gods" co-exist with God the father. My suggestion is to call only God the father God, all these other gods "deities".

God stands in the congregation of the mighty;
He judges among the gods.
How long will you judge unjustly,
And show partiality to the wicked?
Defend the poor and fatherless;
Do justice to the afflicted and needy.
Deliver the poor and needy;
Free them from the hand of the wicked.
They do not know, nor do they understand;
They walk about in darkness;
All the foundations of the earth are unstable.
I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are children of the Most High.
But you shall die like men,
And fall like one of the princes.”
Arise, O God, judge the earth;
For You shall inherit all nations. (Ps. 82)

These so called gods don't coexist with God, because God is outside of His creation and He doesn't coexist with created thing.

There's no doubting the fact that billions of gods have been invented by idolaters. We can make gods out of anything we choose, I heard that the Hindu's have around 320 million gods.

Whatever men hold in the highest esteem, is their god. So their god may be their dog or cat or some kind of carved statue, or it could be anything at all. God said, "you shall have no other gods beside Me", this doesn't mean that the gods are actual entities or persons, they are just the products of a lost persons imagination.

 

[mailmandan]

The name on the front of a building does not define "The Church." It never has.

Yes, the Church is the body of Christ (Colossians 1:18,24) that is made up of all born again believers and is not simply a church building with a name stamped on the front of it.

 

[GWH]

You know, this is about the definition of the word "God”, not the identity of God according to the bible, although there's a large intersection. The definition can be narrow down to Eternal (Ex. 3:14) Creator (Gen. 1:1), anything else such as the holy trinity belongs to the identity category.

That depends on how you define identity.

 

[GWH]

These so called gods don't coexist with God, because God is outside of His creation and He doesn't coexist with created thing.

There's no doubting the fact that billions of gods have been invented by idolaters. We can make gods out of anything we choose, I heard that the Hindu's have around 320 million gods.

Whatever men hold in the highest esteem, is their god. So their god may be their dog or cat or some kind of carved statue, or it could be anything at all. God said, "you shall have no other gods beside Me", this doesn't mean that the gods are actual entities or persons, they are just the products of a lost persons imagination.

Yes, aka idols, and the most common form of esteeming false gods is I-dolatry.

 

[Lovette]

That depends on how you define identity.

I was asking you about your understanding on "WHAT is god" and "WHO is god".

 

[Lovette]

These so called gods don't coexist with God, because God is outside of His creation and He doesn't coexist with created thing.

There's no doubting the fact that billions of gods have been invented by idolaters. We can make gods out of anything we choose, I heard that the Hindu's have around 320 million gods.

Whatever men hold in the highest esteem, is their god. So their god may be their dog or cat or some kind of carved statue, or it could be anything at all. God said, "you shall have no other gods beside Me", this doesn't mean that the gods are actual entities or persons, they are just the products of a lost persons imagination.

They do exist, imaginary idols cannot be judged, nor could they die like men. It requires a supernatural view to acknowledge them as entities and enemy of humanity. Paul warned us that we wrestle with not flesh and blood, but powers, principalities and rulers of darkness. Likewise, Jesus practiced exorcism, the demons he cast out were evil spirits of these entities, he was not treating some kind of mental illness.

 

[Journey_man]

They do exist, imaginary idols cannot be judged, nor could they die like men. It requires a supernatural view to acknowledge them as entities and enemy of humanity. Paul warned us that we wrestle with not flesh and blood, but powers, principalities and rulers of darkness. Likewise, Jesus practiced exorcism, the demons he cast out were evil spirits of these entities, he was not treating some kind of mental illness.

I'm not sure what "death" means to you, but the Bible never describes death as "the cessation of existence" or annihilation.

God said "the soul that sins shall die". Adam sinned and He died but he still appeared to be alive for another 900 years before his bodily death.

I believe the text you referred to was describing the spiritual death which Adam and every other human being experiences at conception. The scripture says we are born dead in sin, this must be referring to the spiritual death we inherited from Adam.

The so called gods, described in the text must be either fallen Angels or principalities and powers of darkness. I can't think of any scripture which describes them as having physical or biological bodies as men have.

According to 1 John 4:1-3 believers are instructed to "not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world". The primary test is to determine if a spirit confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh.

Any spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God, but is instead "the spirit of the Antichrist" (1 John 4:3).

 

[Lovette]

I'm not sure what "death" means to you, but the Bible never describes death as "the cessation of existence" or annihilation.

God said "the soul that sins shall die". Adam sinned and He died but he still appeared to be alive for another 900 years before his bodily death.

I believe the text you referred to was describing the spiritual death which Adam and every other human being experiences at conception. The scripture says we are born dead in sin, this must be referring to the spiritual death we inherited from Adam.

The so called gods, described in the text must be either fallen Angels or principalities and powers of darkness. I can't think of any scripture which describes them as having physical or biological bodies as men have.

According to 1 John 4:1-3 believers are instructed to "not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world". The primary test is to determine if a spirit confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh.

Any spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God, but is instead "the spirit of the Antichrist" (1 John 4:3).

I'm not sure which "death" you're questioning, 'cause there're two deaths, mortal death and spiritual death. The term "second death" is specifically used in Rev. 20. This second death is reserved for these evil spirits, whatever or whoever you believe they are, they do exist, they're not imaginary idols, and they're called "gods" or "sons of the most high" in the bible.