The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[Undergrace1]

I aim to be like Jesus.
Jesus obeyed the law perfectly.

I am promoting what Jesus said..

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Pro 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he:...

If you think it is not possible to overcome sin you will never overcome sin. You will remain a slave to sin.
But if you think and believe it is possible for you to overcome sin. You will be able to overcome more and more. Sanctification by faith.

God is able to give us the victory. But we need to have faith.

Which commandments is Jesus referring to in John15:10, the TC, or the commands he is teaching the people?
Sin is written about in two different ways in the bible, as I hope you would know. John stated:
If we(John includes himself in the we) claim to be without sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us 1John1:8
A good yardstick, as to whether you can achieve not committing sin regarding the TC, would be, if you believe you can faultlessly obey the law relating to the inner man, the law only you and God need know you break.
That was a big deal to Paul, it was because he could not obey the tenth commandment in relation to this, he had to die to righteousness of obeying the law

 

[Undergrace1]

Because I do what Jesus didn't do.
I allow my flesh to control me.
When the flesh is in control I can not follow the law like Jesus did. We need to walk in the Spirit.
We can walk in the Spirit by faith.

Rom 7:23-25
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Gal 5:16-17
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

In regard to Gal5:16, as a minister of fifty years stated:
If we all followed after the Holy Spirit every minute of our lives we would never commit sin, the reality of which escapes us all
BTW
If you had said we should desire to live as God wants us to live, I would have completely agreed with you. But judging whether a person remains justified according to whether they obey the law Paul termed the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation, I cannot agree with, for we all stand guilty before that law, as we will know, if we allow ourselves to be convicted of where the bar is set to obey that law.

 

[Inquisitor]

Sin is still breaking the law of God in the NC 1John3:4 James2:11 Rom7:7

Being under the law. means being guilty of breaking the law and standing before God as a sinner

Gal 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God

So under the law does not mean keeping it, it means being under the condemnation of the law- the wages of sin is death even in the NC Rom6:23 but if we are subjecting ourselves to the Spirit will the Spirit be leading us away from His commandments to worship other gods or break the least of the commandments the opposite of what Jesus said Mat5:19 no my friend that's the other spirit we are warned about Isa8:20

Grace is not a license to sin Rom 6:1-4

Small error of yours.

Your reference to Gal 3:19 should have been Romans 3:19.

And as we always do we read the surrounding context to avoid quoting any verse out of the context.

Romans 3:21-22
But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law
and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe.

The law has no place in that faith in Jesus Christ. That's why it says "But now apart from the Law".

Is Paul talking to the Gentiles about the law. No Paul is talking about and explaining Jewish history.

Romans 3:1-2
Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? Great in every respect.

See I told you Paul was talking about the Jews. gentiles are forbidden from circumcision.

Does Paul do that again and talk to the Jews directly? Well, yes he does.

Romans 3:9
What then? Are we better than they?

Better than who? The Gentiles of course.

Romans 3:19
Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law.

Who is under the law?

The Jews.

Do not quote Romans 3:19 out of the context of Romans 3.

Your not a Jew and your not circumcised nor a descendant of Abraham.

The law has nothing to do with you.

 

[TMS]

I mean, Paul tells us we must die to the law, we are released from it and serve in the new way of the Spirit not the old way of the written code. The example given is one of the TC
Does it seem right to you, continually telling people they must look to a law and obey it that Paul says we die to?
You might say the believer is not justified by obeying the TC but they can only be in a justified state if they do obey them. It is still righteousness of obeying the law Paul tells us we must die to
And what about Jesus commands in the gospels, in your view, is it sin not to obey them? You need to be careful how you answer. Only I rarely hear people with your views mention Jesus commands in the gospels, only the law the bible terms the letter kills, the ministry of death and condemnation

Dead to the law ?

Paul is clear that the 10 commandments are not dead and clearly does not say we don't need to obey them.
Roms 3:31. 6:1,2 13:10.

Rom 7:7-9
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

This is not saying that the law is dead.. it is death to us when we transgress it.

not law = no sin.
No sin = no death.

But Paul is saying we have grace and forgiveness by the death of Jesus. The law can not hold us guilty because of the death of Jesus.. verse 4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ;

Sin = death
Jesus paid the price of death for us.
The law is not able to condemn us because of what Jesus did..
Do we make the law void because of what Jesus has done. No, Rom 3:31.

 

[Undergrace1]

Dead to the law ?

Paul is clear that the 10 commandments are not dead and clearly does not say we don't need to obey them.
Roms 3:31. 6:1,2 13:10.

Rom 7:7-9
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

This is not saying that the law is dead.. it is death to us when we transgress it.

not law = no sin.
No sin = no death.

But Paul is saying we have grace and forgiveness by the death of Jesus. The law can not hold us guilty because of the death of Jesus.. verse 4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ;

Sin = death
Jesus paid the price of death for us.
The law is not able to condemn us because of what Jesus did..
Do we make the law void because of what Jesus has done. No, Rom 3:31.

Im a bit confused by what you wrote, on the one hand you say the law cannot hold us guilty because of the death of Jesus, on the other hand you say it is death to us when we transgress it. If I am missing something here, please explain.
No Paul was not meaning we die to the law in regard to what is written in the TC ceasing to exist. However, Paul did NOT believe we should look to the TC and seek to obey them in order to remain justified before God. That is the last thing Paul believed.
Rom7:7-9 is Paul explaining why he had to die to righteousness of obeying the law. All his emphasis on not being able to be righteous by obeying the law was because of the TC. The non moral law of rite, ritual and ceremony could faultlessly be obeyed, even by the worst of sinners(Phil3:6)
Indeed, if there was no moral law, Jesus need not have died at Calvary

 

[TMS]

wants us to live, I would have completely agreed with you. But judging whether a person remains justified according to whether they obey the law Paul termed the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation, I cannot agree with, for we all stand guilty before that law, as we will know, if we allow ourselves to be convicted of where the bar is set to obey that law.

I don't stand guilty before the law,
You might...

If we confess our sins, Repent, He will forgive us..

By the blood of Jesus I am cleansed from all sin..

You can remove the bar (The Law) in order to free yourself from guilt. But I go to the foot of the cross and ask Jesus to free me from sin.
I do not remove the Law that points out sin. I ask for the Spirit to obey the law and have an advocate when I fall.

By grace and faith in Jesus I don't make void the law.. I establish it

 

[Undergrace1]

I don't stand guilty before the law,
You might...

If we confess our sins, Repent, He will forgive us..

By the blood of Jesus I am cleansed from all sin..

You can remove the bar (The Law) in order to free yourself from guilt. But I go to the foot of the cross and ask Jesus to free me from sin.
I do not remove the Law that points out sin. I ask for the Spirit to obey the law and have an advocate when I fall.

By grace and faith in Jesus I don't make void the law.. I establish it

I know the bible uses the word confess, but for me it doesn't speak of an intimate relationship with Christ. I will always tell God I am sorry for folly, as surely as night follows day I will do it. The burden of not doing so would be too great, for God placed in mind how he wants me to live, and put the desire in my heart to live that way. You cannot wilfully go against how you desire in your heart to live without saying sorry for doing so, I c annot anyway.
So you do not remain saved because you obey the TC, but because Jesus died for you? I would completely agree with that

 

[TMS]

Im a bit confused by what you wrote, on the one hand you say the law cannot hold us guilty because of the death of Jesus, on the other hand you say it is death to us when we transgress it. If I am missing something here, please explain

Sin is the transgression of the law.
The 10 commandments reveal sin. They reveal our guilt and no law would mean no guilt.

Is that clear..

Sin = death.
Because we have all sinned we are all guilty of death. Because everyone is guilty of sin, it means the law must be active. No law = no sin = no death.

Law reveals sin = death.
We are all facing Eternal death if we look at the equation.

To remove the law and make the law void, dead, no longer revealing sin, would mean we are not guilty of sin and not deserving of death.

We don't need the blood of Jesus.

But if sin and the law remains and Jesus is offering you His gift of forgiveness we are free from the eternal death.

We have been made free from the law by the blood of Jesus..

But we do not continue in sin.. no
We love Jesus and aim to never sin again.
We aim to obey the law.

Is that clear...

 

[TMS]

I know the bible uses the word confess, but for me it doesn't speak of an intimate relationship with Christ. I will always tell God I am sorry for folly, as surely as night follows day I will do it. The burden of not doing so would be too great, for God placed in mind how he wants me to live, and put the desire in my heart to live that way. You cannot wilfully go against how you desire in your heart to live without saying sorry for doing so, I c annot anyway.
So you do not remain saved because you obey the TC, but because Jesus died for you? I would completely agree with that

I've never said you are saved by keeping the law..
I say you keep the law because you love Jesus for His saving grace.

 

[Undergrace1]

Sin is the transgression of the law.
The 10 commandments reveal sin. They reveal our guilt and no law would mean no guilt.

Is that clear..

Sin = death.
Because we have all sinned we are all guilty of death. Because everyone is guilty of sin, it means the law must be active. No law = no sin = no death.

Law reveals sin = death.
We are all facing Eternal death if we look at the equation.

To remove the law and make the law void, dead, no longer revealing sin, would mean we are not guilty of sin and not deserving of death.

We don't need the blood of Jesus.

But if sin and the law remains and Jesus is offering you His gift of forgiveness we are free from the eternal death.

We have been made free from the law by the blood of Jesus..

But we do not continue in sin.. no
We love Jesus and aim to never sin again.
We aim to obey the law.

Is that clear...

Well you continue to sin in one way, but not the other
Law as we naturally understand law to mean comes in two parts, what is written in the law and the penalty for transgression, that kind of law has been abolished for the believer, for Jesus died for our transgressions of the law/our sin. However, what is written in the law is holy, just and good(Rom7:12) so God transferred the law from an external law engraved in stone, and made it an internal law in the hearts and minds of believers.
Simply means, in your mind you know God does not want you to steal, lie, take his name in vain, commit adultery, murder covet, and in your heart(the flesh is another matter) you want to live that way, for that is where the law now is. You cannot be in ignorance of that law for it is in your most inward parts.
So, it would be pointless, under the new covenant to use the phrase: You must obey the TC' wouldn't it.
It would be the same as me continually telling you, you must follow your twelve times tables when Im sure you know them
Because you in your heart desire to live as God wants you to live:
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more'' for Jesus died for your lawless deeds, your sins

 

[Undergrace1]

I've never said you are saved by keeping the law..
I say you keep the law because you love Jesus for His saving grace.

But you do believe in order to remain justified you must obey the TC? If you do believe that, you are looking to the wrong thing to prove continued salvation, for the letter of that law kills, it kills you, me and everyone else

 

[Undergrace1]

Dead to the law ?

Paul is clear that the 10 commandments are not dead and clearly does not say we don't need to obey them.
Roms 3:31. 6:1,2 13:10.

Rom 7:7-9
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

This is not saying that the law is dead.. it is death to us when we transgress it.

not law = no sin.
No sin = no death.

But Paul is saying we have grace and forgiveness by the death of Jesus. The law can not hold us guilty because of the death of Jesus.. verse 4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ;

Sin = death
Jesus paid the price of death for us.
The law is not able to condemn us because of what Jesus did..
Do we make the law void because of what Jesus has done. No, Rom 3:31.

BTW
As you mentioned Rom3:31
Here’s Paul’s core gospel message in a nutshell:

The power of sin is the law 1Cor15:56 The legally binding law with the power to condemn.

But as Paul states, the law, what is written in it is holy, just and good (Rom7:12)

So what was God to do? He obviously would want to remove the power of sin, but he would not want to remove what is holy just and good.
The law comes in two parts, what is written in the law and the attached penalty for transgression. Nothing wrong at all with the first part, it is holy, just and good, its the second part that's the problem

So God did an incredible thing. He transferred the law/what is written in it, from an external law engraved in stone, and made it an internal law in the hearts and minds of believers(2Cor3:3&Heb10:15-17)) An external law does not mean you in your heart would want to obey it does it. But a law placed in your heart, does mean in your heart you want to follow it. So, what is holy, just and good remains intact, it is now in your heart and mind. It simply means in your mind you know how God wants you to live and in your heart you want to live that way. In your heart you do not want to murder, steal, commit adultery, covet, take the Lords name in vain etc. Hardly legalism! The law/what is written in the law that is now in your heart and mind cannot condemn you, you have no righteousness of obeying it, for Jesus died for your sins/your transgressions of the law: your sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more

Because, and only because you in your heart want to live as God desires you to live, he removed the penalty attached to the law for transgression from your life. He sent Jesus to die for your sins/your transgressions of the law. Therefore, the legally binding law with the power to condemn is removed from you. And therefore, the power of sin is also now removed from your life.

With the power of sin removed from your life, you can now live a far holier life, a life you in your heart want to live for that is where the law now is. And you can do that because you are not under law/righteousness of obeying the law, but under grace/righteousness of faith in Christ. Christ died to pay the penalty of your sin, and he died to break the power of sin. And so Paul states:

Do we then make void the law by faith/righteousness of faith in Christ not obeying the law? God forbid: Yea, we establish the law Rom3:31

And:

For sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law/ righteousness of obeying the law, but under grace/righteousness of faith in Christ. Rom 6:14

 

[vassal]

Which commandments is Jesus referring to in John15:10, the TC, or the commands he is teaching the people?
Sin is written about in two different ways in the bible, as I hope you would know. John stated:
If we(John includes himself in the we) claim to be without sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us 1John1:8
A good yardstick, as to whether you can achieve not committing sin regarding the TC, would be, if you believe you can faultlessly obey the law relating to the inner man, the law only you and God need know you break.
That was a big deal to Paul, it was because he could not obey the tenth commandment in relation to this, he had to die to righteousness of obeying the law

When Jesus said “If you keep My commandments… even as I have kept My Father’s commandments” in John 15:10, He showed that the commandments He teaches are the Father’s commandments, not something separate. Jesus said His words come from the Father, and He repeated the Ten Commandments openly, then lifted them deeper into the heart. He taught that anger breaks the command against murder, and lust breaks the command against adultery. This shows that His commandments include the Ten Commandments and the spirit behind them. Jesus never said obedience is impossible. He said His sheep follow Him, that those who love Him keep His commandments, and that His yoke is easy. He told people to “sin no more,” which means He would not command something impossible.
The claim that “nobody can keep the inner commandments” does not come from Jesus. John’s words “if we say we have no sin” mean we have all sinned and need forgiveness, not that we must continue sinning. John also wrote that he teaches us “so that you may not sin,” and that those who keep God’s word and stay in Christ stop living in sin. James also said we must be doers of the word and continue in the perfect law. Jesus, John, and James all teach that real obedience, including the heart, is possible with God’s help. So the idea that Jesus was not talking about the Ten Commandments, or that inner obedience is impossible, is not supported by Scripture.

 

[TMS]

Which commandments is Jesus referring to in John15:10, the TC, or the commands he is teaching the people?
Sin is written about in two different ways in the bible, as I hope you would know. John stated:
If we(John includes himself in the we) claim to be without sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us 1John1:8
A good yardstick, as to whether you can achieve not committing sin regarding the TC, would be, if you believe you can faultlessly obey the law relating to the inner man, the law only you and God need know you break.
That was a big deal to Paul, it was because he could not obey the tenth commandment in relation to this, he had to die to righteousness of obeying the law

At the end of the day... we are all guilty

But we can repent and aim to not sin.
Or we can change the law.

Righteousness is by faith not by keeping the law. We only need to sin once and we are worthy of eternal death.

Answer this question please.

Does God solve the sin problem by removing the Law or by paying the price of sin for us?

 

[TMS]

Jesus is the perfect standard of righteousness.
Sinlessness because He obeyed the law perfectly.

Should we aim to be like Jesus?

 

[TMS]

BTW
As you mentioned Rom3:31
Here’s Paul’s core gospel message in a nutshell:

The power of sin is the law 1Cor15:56 The legally binding law with the power to condemn.

But as Paul states, the law, what is written in it is holy, just and good (Rom7:12)

So what was God to do? He obviously would want to remove the power of sin, but he would not want to remove what is holy just and good.
The law comes in two parts, what is written in the law and the attached penalty for transgression. Nothing wrong at all with the first part, it is holy, just and good, its the second part that's the problem

So God did an incredible thing. He transferred the law/what is written in it, from an external law engraved in stone, and made it an internal law in the hearts and minds of believers(2Cor3:3&Heb10:15-17)) An external law does not mean you in your heart would want to obey it does it. But a law placed in your heart, does mean in your heart you want to follow it. So, what is holy, just and good remains intact, it is now in your heart and mind. It simply means in your mind you know how God wants you to live and in your heart you want to live that way. In your heart you do not want to murder, steal, commit adultery, covet, take the Lords name in vain etc. Hardly legalism! The law/what is written in the law that is now in your heart and mind cannot condemn you, you have no righteousness of obeying it, for Jesus died for your sins/your transgressions of the law: your sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more

Because, and only because you in your heart want to live as God desires you to live, he removed the penalty attached to the law for transgression from your life. He sent Jesus to die for your sins/your transgressions of the law. Therefore, the legally binding law with the power to condemn is removed from you. And therefore, the power of sin is also now removed from your life.

With the power of sin removed from your life, you can now live a far holier life, a life you in your heart want to live for that is where the law now is. And you can do that because you are not under law/righteousness of obeying the law, but under grace/righteousness of faith in Christ. Christ died to pay the penalty of your sin, and he died to break the power of sin. And so Paul states:

Do we then make void the law by faith/righteousness of faith in Christ not obeying the law? God forbid: Yea, we establish the law Rom3:31

And:

For sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law/ righteousness of obeying the law, but under grace/righteousness of faith in Christ. Rom 6:14

Your really confusing me..
The law is not what brings death
Sin is what brings death..

God is the JUDGE not the law.
GOD WILL JUDGE us as saved or as not not saved.

The law is holy Just and good.

Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

The LAW is not death or bring death it reveals sin and sin brings death..

Should we AIM to obey and estabish the law. Or Not. ?

Should we aim to keep all 10 commandments?

 

[TMS]

The ministration of death refers to the administration of the law under the old covenant, specifically the way the ten commandments were enforced with the immediate penalty of death for transgressors.
It is vital to distinguish between the law itself, which is the eternal and holy transcript of God's character, and the ministration of that law, which is the service performed by the ministers who enforce it.

Understanding the difference between the law and its ministration is essential for a clear view of the Gospel.

The Law: The ten commandments, written and engraven in stones, constitute the moral law or "Royal Law," which is as permanent as God’s throne.

The Ministration: This signifies the service or act of performing a ministry. Just as a nation’s constitution remains the same while the administration changes from one president to another, so God's law remains while the ministration of it changes.

Paul contrasts the "ministration of death" with the "ministration of the Spirit".

We must not think that because the ministration is changed, the law is changed or abolished; if so, it would not be a change of ministration, but the ministration of another law. To illustrate this point: The constitution of the United States is the supreme law of the land; the enforcing of this law is called its ministration; Who would think for a moment that because the administration was changed, the constitution must necessarily be abolished or changed? Just so it is with the law of God, and the ministrations of “death” and the “Spirit.”

I'll go in more detail in the next post

 

[TMS]

Why Is It Called the "Ministration of Death"?
The term "death" is used in relation to the law for several reasons:

The Penalty: Under the theocratic government from Moses to Christ, willful offenders of the letter of the law were punished with immediate temporal death.
The Power of Condemnation: The law reveals sin and works wrath, but it cannot pardon the sinner; therefore, without an atonement, it can only condemn the transgressor to death.
The Letter Kills: When the law is viewed only as a written code on stone without the Spirit of life in Christ, it becomes a voice of condemnation that "killeth" the soul.
A Mirror of Sin: Paul notes that the commandment ordained to life was "found to be unto death" because it revealed his sinful condition and slew his self-righteousness Romans 7:10.

There was a CHANGE in The Ministration and the cross of Christ did not abolish the ten commandments; rather, it changed how they are administered to humanity.

Under the first covenant, the law was written on stones; under the new covenant, the same law is written in the mind and heart by the Spirit of God Hebrews 8:10.

The ministration of the Spirit is more glorious then the ministration of death because mercy and truth meet together, because mercy and Justice are both obtained in the death of Christ.. Amen...

The "ministration of death" was abolished at the cross, but the moral law was established and made glorious through the sacrifice of Christ.
Today, those who are in Christ are no longer under the condemnation of the law but are under the ministration of the Spirit, which gives life and liberty.
2 Corinthians 3:17
As the law is written on the heart, it becomes a delight rather than a yoke of bondage, reflecting the character of Christ in the life of the believer.

 

[Dino246]

Dead to the law ?

Paul is clear that the 10 commandments are not dead and clearly does not say we don't need to obey them.
Roms 3:31. 6:1,2 13:10.

Perhaps you should pay more careful attention.

If a human dies, the civil laws of his nation have no further influence on him. He is "dead to the law". Does that mean the law is dead? No, but he is dead to it.

In the same way, Christians are dead to the Mosaic law, and it has no further influence on them. Does that mean the Law is dead? No.

We are no longer under that covenant (if we ever were!). Instead we are under Christ's law in the new covenant.

 

[Dino246]

Should we AIM to obey and estabish the law. Or Not. ?

Paul's statement that "we establish the law" is not saying that it didn't exist, but that it has its place and it serves its purpose: to convict of sin. However, keeping the law never made any sinner holy and righteous. We don't need to "aim" to establish it, for it is already established.

Should we aim to keep all 10 commandments?

Yes, if you are under the Law. We Christians are not.