How true is this
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well assertions are easily made when your believe is at question, like you could believe you've been following Christ out of your own inner kindness for many years,.but untill you seek assurance from his word, you realise Christ in you was the cause, which gives you more assurance you are genuinely saved.
As for stigmata best leaving that subject Alone really
But other than your say so you cant prove assurance of your salvation.
You brought it up. Are you afraid of it? Padre Pio was probably the most well known sufferer of the stigmata
do you believe stigmata is real ?
But anyway does objective truth make truth right or does objective truth question your truth.
The things hidden underneath the service, like your belief, if I was to object to your truth, could you have doubt about your truth.
I think it's real that Padre Pio was medically examined on numerous occasions and it was determined that what he had was not caused by his applying acid to his skin, which he was accused of doing, and they didn't know what caused it. I think it's also real that the day he died the stigmata disappeared and left behind no trace of it ever having been there for the 50 years he suffered with it.
Right so on that bases then sigmata is real. ? Or are you saying it could be
Heres the problem with what the Roman Catholic churches teach, you can have moral confidence in salvation but you cant have complete confidence in your salvation, as you have to persevere in your faith until you die.
Roman Catholics believe that only the martyred Saints only ever had complete assurance through a revalation they received. Which is like a sign, all that stuff.
Roman Catholic still to this day search for signs of stigmata, so they believe it's real.
Here's the other big issue many catholics have actually go to extent of inflicting self imposed wounds because they can't have complete assurance.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
God wants all people to be saved and Jesus takes away the sins of the world.
Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Luk 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation.
Predestination means God had the plan to give mankind salvation before He laid down the foundation of the world.
But this salvation is to any person that wants it for God wants all people to be saved.
Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.
If God chooses who will be saved in the beginning without their choice then why is He calling people that cannot be chosen.
God does the calling and choosing on earth.
Which means we have a choice in our salvation.
When God calls a person according to their heart condition He will work with them to get them to the truth.
But when they get to the door of truth they have to choose to go through the door of truth for God's kingdom is true love.
But they would of not got to the door of truth if God did not intervene in their life.
Not everybody goes through the door of truth which many are called but few are chosen.
2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Not everybody goes through the door of truth and love sin more than God and do not come to the truth.
Doth thou not understandest.
After all these years doth thou not understandest.
But they do not come to the truth but hang on to the flesh.
And in the flesh dwells no good thing.
And those in the flesh cannot please God.
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
They say faith alone and we cannot abstain from sin.
But a Spirit led person will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
And God will deliver them from temptation.
So what is the excuse.
Those led of the Spirit if they sin will repent and mean it and allow the Spirit to lead them.
Those not led of the Spirit will hold on to sin believing they are alright.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
If a person holds on to sin the blood of Christ cannot wash it away.
all the scriptures are fine, but there faith building scriptures to.
The issue I have with your post, is what you say his calling is .
Tablet said: who will be saved in the beginning without their choice then why is He calling people that cannot be chosen.
Calling in regards to the golden chain of Romans 8 has to believed it's true, but how you believe it true is another thing.
The order is for-knowledge predestination called justified glorified.
It's important to see know the foreknowledge and predestination is in his sovereign plan for all mankind. that he knows, and he has that plan, but is made available for us to be known, but what is not known and includes is whom he knows will be saved to us, but it is known how we can have assurance
The calling is based on who gets saved not on those who don't get saves.
The calling is the message that goes through the ears as the outer calling. Which all are predestined to, with his for-knowledge.
The one who are called are the ones who trust in his calling. Notice Romans 8 says the called, which means they would have received a calling, to change them. The calling goes out to all as no one is without excuse. Not one
These are the ones who receive mercy, the ones who don't are the ones who receive Justice.
No one receives injustice from God.
Then comes justification which a believe can be assured of through his word.
What I said was it's real that padre pio had what is called the stigmata. I can't say it's not real as from all indications he was afflicted with the stigmata and from my reading prayed everyday that it would be taken from him.
That is what Scripture teaches
Martyrs. No of all martyrs are saints
No one is "searching for it". You shouldn't listen to people who don't know anything about the church.
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life. -- 1 John 5:13 ESV
Like you said it doesn't not matter who you are, whether your a Catholic doesn't matter either, but it does matter what you believe at first maybe, but it does matter how you believe.
I wonder if some catholics despite what there church teach, that you can't have complete assurance of your salvation, that some of there members know different.
Well they must do since its another contentious argument for division and why catholics separate from there church.
Believing the stigmata is real is not relevant to anything. No one is required to believe anything. The problem with belief though the object if anyone's belief doesn't have to be true or real.
What people know and what's real it true isn't always the same thing.
My experience has been they separate from their church out of pure ignorance. In all fairness too the church did a lousy job catechizing their own members but that's changing. I see strong protestants move to Catholicism but the runts of the Catholic Church move to protestantism.
And if they leave the Catholic church, in your view is it only because there a runt, or could there be for a genuine reason, that needs looking at ?
How would you define a runt ?
Would it be a small pig or a small pigeon
And if they leave the Catholic church, in your view is it only because there a runt, or could there be for a genuine reason, that needs looking at ?
How would you define a runt ?
Would it be a small pig or a small pigeon
Of course there could be a genuine reason but as I said I my experience I have never seen one and have never had such a reason presented to me. All too often it's sadly the case that the Catholic is as poorly informed about catholisim as the protestant.
The Catholics get scott hahn, a once virulent anti Catholic who knows the Bible better then you or I ever will, while the protestants get Catholics that don't know the basics of their own faith.
so again then you don't see having full assurance is a genuine reason.
Would you say this belief was your own to begin with
I think Jesus said that all who were taught of God would come to him. So unless I'm mistaken those who have been saved have been taught by God at some point. Salvation is not a human effort it takes someone being born of God as it says in John 1.
John 6:43-45 KJV
43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
John 1:12-13 KJV
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 6:43-45 KJV
43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
John 1:12-13 KJV
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.