The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[SabbathBlessing]

So you would say, we all transgress the TC?

Yes, we are all sinners. But it doesn't mean we can't overcome through Jesus. But if we have a hardened heart, which is related to not being subject to the law of God, the Holy Spirit has no where to work with us.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

If we allow God to be God to define His standard of righteousness (right and wrong doing) Psa 119:172 Isa 56:1-2 which is is everlasting Psa 119:142 and go to Him and say Lord I am a sinner, I need You to help me overcome my sins. I can't do this on my own, I am willing to do your good will because I trust what you are asking is for my own good even if I don't see it. He will help us. If we fall again, get back up and ask again, His arms are strong and longs for us to come to Him seeking His help. Theres Scriptures I can provide if you want that shows us how to overcome sin.

But when we are closed off to what He asks if we love Him Exo20:6 John14:15 1John5:3 He has no where to work in our hearts, where He placed His laws Heb8:10 2Cor3:3

Does this make sense?

 

[Undergrace1]

Yes, we are all sinners. But it doesn't mean we can't overcome through Jesus. But if we have a hardened heart, which is related to not being subject to the law of God, the Holy Spirit has no where to work with us.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

If we allow God to be God to define His standard of righteousness (right and wrong doing) Psa 119:172 Isa 56:1-2 which is is everlasting and go to Him and say Lord I am a sinner, I need your to help me overcome my sins. I can't do this on my own, I am willing to do your good will because I trust what you are asking is for my own good even if I don't see it. He will help us. If we fall again, get back up and ask again, His arms are strong and longs for us to come to Him seeking His help.

But when we are closed off to what He asks if we love Him Exo20:6 John14:15 1John5:3 He has no where to go.

Does this make sense?

So we don't actually have to obey the TC to remain saved, for we all fail. It might be better to say, we must desire to live as God wants us to live.
Of course, as Paul told born again christians in the present tense, the letter of the TC kills, it is the ministry of death and condemnation, I would think, measuring whether you are saved or not according to such law as Paul stated, would lead to much guilt and condemnation

 

[SabbathBlessing]

So we don't actually have to obey the TC to remain saved, for we all fail. It might be better to say, we must desire to live as God wants us to live.
Of course, as Paul told born again christians in the present tense, the letter of the TC kills, it is the ministry of death and condemnation, I would think, measuring whether you are saved or not according to such law as Paul stated, would lead to much guilt and condemnation

The bible speaks of a people who overcomes, its all throughout Revelation.

This is the fruit of a saved person

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

While we are not saved by keeping any law, keeping the law is a consequence of our salvation in Jesus Christ. If we are in Him, He is not going to lead us to worship other gods, or steal from our neighbor. If in Him, He will lead us to a sinless life, we can't do it on our own, but through Him all things are possible. He came to save us from our sins Mat1:21 not in them Heb 10:26-30

 

[Undergrace1]

The bible speaks of a people who overcomes, its all throughout Revelation.

This is the fruit of a saved person

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

While we are not saved by keeping any law, keeping the law is a consequence of our salvation in Jesus Christ. If we are in Him, He is not going to lead us to worship other gods, or steal from our neighbor. If in Him, He will lead us to a sinless life, we can't do it on our own, but through Him all things are possible. he came to save us from our sins Mat1:21 not in them Heb 10:26-30

But we do not fully keep that law do we, we transgress it, and it is no wonder, considering how Paul termed it in 2Cor3:6-9)

 

[Cameron143]

May I ask, what happens if you do not obey the Ten Commandments?

You go straight to hell, do not pass GO, and do not collect eternal life.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

But we do not fully keep that law do we, we transgress it, and it is no wonder, considering how Paul termed it in 2Cor3:6-9)

Paul does not say the Ten Commandment was termed, we have to remember Paul is hard to understand. He said the law on tablets of stone (Ten Commandments) went to tablets of the heart 2Cor3:3 the law of God now went on the New Covenant believers hearts and minds, not based on what we do, but what God will do if we cooperate with him.

2Cor3:6-9 is speaking about the ministration changes. Breaking the law of God is sin and deserves the death penalty- why the Ten Commandments is the ministration of death because its sin when we break 1John3:4 Rom7:7 James2:11. But if we are under the ministration of the Spirit, we are going to be keeping them through His Spirit.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

No one is saved in their sins. Thats what the devil wants for us believe, we can disobey God and live, the same lie he told in the garden, when God said the opposite.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” [g]says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

We need a conversion in Christ- where we die of self daily and live for God under His Spirit that will never lead us to do the opposite of what God said.

 

[Undergrace1]

Paul does not say the Ten Commandment was termed, we have to remember Paul is hard to understand. He said the law on tablets of stone (Ten Commandments) went to tablets of the heart 2Cor3:3 the law of God now went on the New Covenant believers hearts and minds, not based on what we do, but what God will do if we cooperate with him.

2Cor3:6-9 is speaking about the ministration changes. Breaking the law of God is sin and deserves the death penalty- why the Ten Commandments is the ministration of death because its sin when we break 1John3:4 Rom7:7 James2:11. But if we are under the ministration of the Spirit, we are going to be keeping them through His Spirit.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

You must NOT dwell on any impure thought.
You must NOT lust/have sexual desire for anyone but your spouse.
You must NOT desire anything of your neighbours, whether material goods or a member of their household.
You must fully obey the law relating to the inner person, the law no one but you and God need know you break.
Thou shalt NOT ,no wiggle room for error, perfectly obey those laws or stand guilty before them
And so, the letter of those laws kill. Paul meant it literally

 

[SabbathBlessing]

You must NOT dwell on any impure thought.
You must NOT lust/have sexual desire for anyone but your spouse.
You must NOT desire anything of your neighbours, whether material goods or a member of their household.
You must fully obey the law relating to the inner person, the law no one but you and God need know you break.
Thou shalt NOT ,no wiggle room for error, perfectly obey those laws or stand guilty before them
And so, the letter of those laws kill. Paul meant it literally

Yes it does kill Rom6:23 but as I said, God doesn't make us obey Him on our own, but it does require our cooperation. John14:15-18.

As Paul says, why would someone who is baptized in Christ and has died to sin want to live in it any longer? Considering what it did to Jesus at the Cross.

Rom 6:6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

 

[Undergrace1]

Yes it does kill Rom6:23 but as I said, God doesn't make us obey Him on our own, but it does require our cooperation. John14:15-18.

As Paul says, why would someone who is in Christ and has died to sin want to live in it any longer? Considering what it did to Jesus at the Cross.

Rom 6:6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

So would you say, anyone who fails to perfectly obey the law relating to the inner person, the law no one but they and God need know they break, is living in wilfull disobedience to God and deliberately living a wilfull lifestyle of sin?

 

[SabbathBlessing]

So would you say, anyone who fails to perfectly obey the law relating to the inner person, the law no one but they and God need know they break, is living in wilfull disobedience to God and deliberately living a wilfull lifestyle of sin?

Can you clarify what you mean? Are you saying as an example thoughts of lust but not actually committing adultery?

 

[Undergrace1]

Can you clarify what you mean? Are you saying as an example thoughts of lust but not actually committing adultery?

You dont have to commit adultery, lust, sexual desire, apart from your spouse transgresses the tenth commandment, I can give you the scripture if you would like. And, desiring ANYTHING of your neighbour, which would include their material goods or a member of their household also transgresses the tenth commandment. Your thoughts break that commandment, it relates to what goes on, on the inside of man

 

[SabbathBlessing]

You dont have to commit adultery, lust, sexual desire, apart from your spouse transgresses the tenth commandment, I can give you the scripture if you would like. And, desiring ANYTHING of your neighbour, which would include their material goods or a member of their household also transgresses the tenth commandment. Your thoughts break that commandment, it relates to what goes on, on the inside of man

I was trying to clarify what you meant by your question. But I am glad to see we agree transgressing the tenth commandment is sin.

 

[Undergrace1]

I was asking you want you meant by your question.

I thought I had explained it. If you lust after someone/have sexual desire for someone, apart from your spouse, you have transgressed the tenth commandment, you do not have to commit any outward act to transgress it.
The same with desiring ANYTHING of your neighbours. The thought alone of desiring what is not yours to have transgresses the commandment

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

If we are in Him, He is not going to lead us to worship other gods, or steal from our neighbor.

Of course he won't. His spirit shows us how to do the righteousness demanded by the 10 commandments without having to fixate on the letters of the 10 commandments

 

[SabbathBlessing]

I thought I had explained it. If you lust after someone/have sexual desire for someone, apart from your spouse, you have transgressed the tenth commandment, you do not have to commit any outward act to transgress it.
The same with desiring ANYTHING of your neighbours. The thought alone of desiring what is not yours to have transgresses the commandment

Sorry I was confused for a second.

I think what Jesus is teaching that we should not linger on thoughts that lead up to breaking the commandments. Its not a sin to notice a beautiful women or man (if you're a women) but what can lead to sin are those lingering thoughts of lust. Jesus wants to address how sin begins, it starts in the heart, if we are focused on immoral thoughts, that can lead to the outward part of breaking the commandments. Its one of the reasons why He wrote His laws in our hearts and minds Heb8:10- its right where sin begins, why He says when we lay aside the commandments of God our heart is far from Him Mat15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13

So if we are having impure thoughts about someone other than our spouse we should be doing everything in our power to make changes. For example if you are attracted to a co-worker and are married look for another job, ask to be transferred to another department, do not try to speak to that person unless necessary, stay away. Basically do everything you can that is in your control and than ask God for His help in overcoming those impure thoughts. God wants us to cooperate with Him, but we have to do our part.

Mat 5:27 “You have heard that it was said [i]to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to [j]sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to [k]sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

 

[Undergrace1]

Sorry I was confused for a second.

I think what Jesus is teaching that we should not linger on thoughts that lead up to breaking the commandments. Its not a sin to notice a beautiful women or man (if you're a women) but what can lead to sin are those lingering thoughts of lust. Jesus wants to address how sin begins, it starts in the heart, if we are focused on immoral thoughts, that can lead to the outward part of breaking the commandments. Its one of the reasons why He wrote His laws in our hearts and minds Heb8:10- its right where sin begins, why He says when we lay aside the commandments of God our heart is far from Him Mat15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13

So if we are having impure thoughts about someone other than our spouse we should be doing everything in our power to make changes. For example if you are attracted to a co-worker and are married look for another job, ask to be transferred to another department, do not try to speak to that person unless necessary, stay away. Basically do everything you can that is in your control and than ask God for His help in overcoming those impure thoughts. God wants us to cooperate with Him, but we have to do our part.

Mat 5:27 “You have heard that it was said [i]to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to [j]sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to [k]sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

I dont disagree with that, but it remains true, the tenth commandment concerns what goes on, on the inside of a person, it does not concern the outside. It concerns what you covet/desire/your thoughts. It may be good to look for another job if you desire your co worker, but you have still transgressed the commandment.
When I reached puberty, as a young teenager I would often hear people say
''You must obey the TC''
Every time I heard that my thoughts immediatley turned inwards to my impure thoughts and I felt huge guilt. I didnt know at the time through reading those laws written in ink impure thoughts transgressed them, i instinctively knew, because applicable law is in my heart and mind, as you said, and I can only speak for myself, I must know in my mind what has been placed there

 

[SabbathBlessing]

I dont disagree with that, but it remains true, the tenth commandment concerns what goes on, on the inside of a person, it does not concern the outside. It concerns what you covet/desire/your thoughts. It may be good to look for another job if you desire your co worker, but you have still transgressed the commandment.
When I reached puberty, as a young teenager I would often hear people say
''You must obey the TC''
Every time I heard that my thoughts immediatley turned inwards to my impure thoughts and I felt huge guilt. I didnt know at the time through reading those laws written in ink impure thoughts transgressed them, i instinctively knew, because applicable law is in my heart and mind, as you said, and I can only speak for myself, I must know in my mind what has been placed there

I believe Jesus addressed both the inside and outside. He said not to break the least of these commandments Mat5:19 and showed us how sin begins by our thoughts. If our thoughts of contempt and anger is corrected, though shalt not murder would automatically be kept. If thoughts of lust and unlawful desire are corrected, thou shalt not murder will automatically be kept.

The Ten Commandments was not the law written in ink, that's the laws written on scrolls by humans. God wrote the Ten Commandments on stone with His own finger Exo31:18 not ink and than placed them in our hearts. Jesus demonstrated how far and deep they go and really address both the inward and outward part of man.

 

[Undergrace1]

I believe Jesus addressed both the inside and outside. He said not to break the least of these commandments Mat5:19 and showed us how sin begins by our thoughts. If our thoughts of contempt and anger is corrected, though shalt not murder would automatically be kept. If thoughts of lust and unlawful desire are corrected, thou shalt not murder will automatically be kept.

The Ten Commandments was not the law written in ink, that's the laws written on scrolls. God wrote the Ten Commandments on stone with His own finger and than placed them in our hearts. Jesus demonstrated how far and deep they go and really address both the inward and outward part of man.

You see now, that in order to obey the TC you must obey the law relating to the inner person, the law no one but you and God need know you break
Which is why I am sure, Paul used that particular commandment as an example as to why he had to ''die to the law'' as he put it

 

[SabbathBlessing]

You see now, that in order to obey the TC you must obey the law relating to the inner person, the law no one but you and God need know you break
Which is why I am sure, Paul used that particular commandment as an example as to why he had to ''die to the law'' as he put it

Sorry I do not understand your point. The law has always required two points, a spiritual/heart change which enables one to keep God's commandments

Paul never taught to break the Ten Commandments. He said it dishonors God Rom2:21-23 is sin Rom7:7 one is hostile to God Rom8:7-8 and keeping them is what matters 1 Cor7:19

perhaps you can post the quote from Paul you have in mind so we can look at the context. Thanks

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

In discussions with sabbatarians, basically what it all boils down to is that they don't believe the righteousness of the 4th commandment can be done without fixating on the letter of the commandment. In other words, obedience can't be achieved apart from a specific temporal requirement.

But this is simply not true because God clearly said that the righteousness of the 4th commandment is to know and trust that God is the one sanctifying us, which can be done every moment of every day through the witness of the indwelling holy spirit, which makes the specific temporal requirement of the 4th commandment irrelevant.